ISLE OF MAN
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flybe or flymaybe mmmmmmmmmm
Just reading on the flybe website that mike rutter says that the IOM-BHX rotation has been such a success that they have had to add another rotation to cope.................................mmmmmmmmmmmm well.......................... according the IOM Airport figures it doesnt add up, because it actually states that the BHX route is down by 8%.
As i understand it, easterns figures are stable, but flybe are struggling to fill the 78 seater Q400. plus flybe must be the most unreliable airline going!!!!!
time to spare travel be flybe, and u never know, we may even get you there
I think mr rutter is beind a little economical with the TRUTH!
AND
Just had a quick look at the new proposed car park, which is going to cost a cool million quid...................makes me laugh, the half witts that run the airport cant see to the end of there noses, why dont they encourage the use of public transport!
Have also heard a rumour that anne is going to have an aviation photograph compo with all her managers, and good old mr pain is being the judge! hehehehe well i guess they need some stimulation in there ivory tower
As i understand it, easterns figures are stable, but flybe are struggling to fill the 78 seater Q400. plus flybe must be the most unreliable airline going!!!!!
time to spare travel be flybe, and u never know, we may even get you there
I think mr rutter is beind a little economical with the TRUTH!
AND
Just had a quick look at the new proposed car park, which is going to cost a cool million quid...................makes me laugh, the half witts that run the airport cant see to the end of there noses, why dont they encourage the use of public transport!
Have also heard a rumour that anne is going to have an aviation photograph compo with all her managers, and good old mr pain is being the judge! hehehehe well i guess they need some stimulation in there ivory tower
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Just reading on the flybe website that mike rutter says that the IOM-BHX rotation has been such a success that they have had to add another rotation to cope.................................mmmmmmmmmmmm well.......................... according the IOM Airport figures it doesnt add up, because it actually states that the BHX route is down by 8%.
As i understand it, easterns figures are stable, but flybe are struggling to fill the 78 seater Q400
As i understand it, easterns figures are stable, but flybe are struggling to fill the 78 seater Q400
plus flybe must be the most unreliable airline going!!!!!
It's actually quite funny how childish these 'we hate flybe' posts are getting.....let's not let facts get in the way of a good bit of slagging of flybe eh?
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flybe BHX-IOM
GMIMA
Not sure if you are saying that flybe are having difficulty in filling the Q400 in general or just on BHX-IOM?
BHX-IOM in the week is double daily 49 seat 145. It was due to change to
the Q400 on 8/6/08 but the last time I checked it had changed and it might be something to do with the post on the Glasgow thread stating that Q400 number 39 is delayed (or lack of pax
).
However I believe that they are having difficulty at times filling the 49 seat 145 and there is "local evidence" that T3 have maintained their load factors or thereabouts.
Pete
Not sure if you are saying that flybe are having difficulty in filling the Q400 in general or just on BHX-IOM?
BHX-IOM in the week is double daily 49 seat 145. It was due to change to
the Q400 on 8/6/08 but the last time I checked it had changed and it might be something to do with the post on the Glasgow thread stating that Q400 number 39 is delayed (or lack of pax
).However I believe that they are having difficulty at times filling the 49 seat 145 and there is "local evidence" that T3 have maintained their load factors or thereabouts.
Pete
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FL370 OFFICEBOY
mmmmmmmmmmmm well, all you have to do for real evidence is check the airports arrivals and departures boards for real FACT, plus.............. I used to work for flybe and fould the Q400 very un realiable, even more so than the good old ATP.
even if the barbie jet is flying the IOM BHX route, mike rutter, is still being very economical with the truth when it comes down to real facts and figures
I know for a FACT that easterns figures are stable. The FACT is, Business people like to know that they are going to get there with little or no delay, something that flybe and the Q400 can only dream off and certainly cant supply - FACT
I dont hate flybe at all, we all have a job to do, just that flybe dont seem to do it that well
mmmmmmmmmmmm well, all you have to do for real evidence is check the airports arrivals and departures boards for real FACT, plus.............. I used to work for flybe and fould the Q400 very un realiable, even more so than the good old ATP.
even if the barbie jet is flying the IOM BHX route, mike rutter, is still being very economical with the truth when it comes down to real facts and figures
I know for a FACT that easterns figures are stable. The FACT is, Business people like to know that they are going to get there with little or no delay, something that flybe and the Q400 can only dream off and certainly cant supply - FACT
I dont hate flybe at all, we all have a job to do, just that flybe dont seem to do it that well
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flybe BHX-IOM
It would not surprise me if, as has been suggested, the bulk of the 7% reduction in passenger numbers on this route in March have been suffered by flybe.
Manx2's new EMA-IOM daily rotation carried 538 pax during the month, and due to the timing of this service, I suspect the majority of those were non-business related trips and therefore would more likely to have previously been flown with flybe rather than Eastern.
It would be interesting to see what pax numbers Manx2 could achieve if they ever decided to try a double daily rotation at EMA.
Manx2's new EMA-IOM daily rotation carried 538 pax during the month, and due to the timing of this service, I suspect the majority of those were non-business related trips and therefore would more likely to have previously been flown with flybe rather than Eastern.
It would be interesting to see what pax numbers Manx2 could achieve if they ever decided to try a double daily rotation at EMA.
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Typing the word 'fact' in capital letters every ten words or so doesn't actually prove you to be correct unfortunately. If it did, I'm sure Gordon Brown would be at it all the time to try and convince us of his worth as PM - but that's a different story. In 'fact', (see what I did there )....a quick look at the IOM arrival and departure boards for the week so far wouldn't agree with your argument at all would it? Airlines have bad days. It's the nature of the business....although of course BACON, EMX and their predecessors NEVER had any at all did they?
You dodged my question about the reliabilty of Euromanx vs flybe I note.
So, will you whinge and bitch every time flybe announce an increase in frequency or add a new route from the IOM? Or, would you only approve if they did it without any positive marketing to promote the route?
I suppose if you 'used to work for flybe' then you are one of the bitters who blames them for taking over the island where BA had no interest. How awful they are for adding new routes and frequencies, providing fresh new aeroplanes and providing jobs for islanders. I can see you're point....horrible flybe!!
I would say the 'fact' the company is still here stronger than ever whilst the likes of BACON and Euromanx are consigned to history would perhaps contradict your point somewhat.
)....a quick look at the IOM arrival and departure boards for the week so far wouldn't agree with your argument at all would it? Airlines have bad days. It's the nature of the business....although of course BACON, EMX and their predecessors NEVER had any at all did they?You dodged my question about the reliabilty of Euromanx vs flybe I note.
So, will you whinge and bitch every time flybe announce an increase in frequency or add a new route from the IOM? Or, would you only approve if they did it without any positive marketing to promote the route?
I suppose if you 'used to work for flybe' then you are one of the bitters who blames them for taking over the island where BA had no interest. How awful they are for adding new routes and frequencies, providing fresh new aeroplanes and providing jobs for islanders. I can see you're point....horrible flybe!!
we all have a job to do, just that flybe dont seem to do it that well
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Stop Moaning Please Please Please its annoying!!!!!
So I take it you would like BA back? Oh no sorry they don't give a crap about some poxy island with 80000 people.
What about EuroManx? oh sorry their bust.
Or what about G-MIMA's company Easyjet.
Great company by all means- a/c are far to big. Plus your time keeping ain't that good either.
Us manx people are way behind the time. We would be better with no air travel and use the reliable steam packet.
oh yes, forgot delays this week due to tidal problems.
Stop moaning everyone! its really embarrassing!
Use this link to report on flybe- not here. This is a PROFESSIONAL PILOTS RUMOR NETWORK remember!
http://www.airlinequality.com/
FL370- someone with common sense on this thread- at last!!
What about EuroManx? oh sorry their bust.
Or what about G-MIMA's company Easyjet.
Great company by all means- a/c are far to big. Plus your time keeping ain't that good either.
Us manx people are way behind the time. We would be better with no air travel and use the reliable steam packet.
oh yes, forgot delays this week due to tidal problems.
Stop moaning everyone! its really embarrassing!
Use this link to report on flybe- not here. This is a PROFESSIONAL PILOTS RUMOR NETWORK remember!
http://www.airlinequality.com/
FL370- someone with common sense on this thread- at last!!
Last edited by part69; 13th May 2008 at 14:45. Reason: praise for FL370
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God, this is sooooooo boring,
this slagging match could go on forever, and im sorry if the FACTS have upset you. Go on mate have a look at http://www.airlinequality.com/ and i think u will find the 1* ratings out do the 5* ratings now that i s a FACT about flybes poor services its all there in black and white
when you say adding new frequencies etc, u mean 1 more gatwick and a couple of flights to LPL, come on, Manx Airlines had a similar shedule, but i guess you were in nappies in those good old days
all airlines has its off days but flybe have more than others, over the last year with me flying (not the whole base), i have had no cancellations, and i think my longest delay to a flight was 1hr 40 mins, due to a tech problem.
the minibus is very reliable and a pleasure to fly, especially when i have a lovely dinner table to read the paper on.
this slagging match could go on forever, and im sorry if the FACTS have upset you. Go on mate have a look at http://www.airlinequality.com/ and i think u will find the 1* ratings out do the 5* ratings now that i s a FACT about flybes poor services its all there in black and white
when you say adding new frequencies etc, u mean 1 more gatwick and a couple of flights to LPL, come on, Manx Airlines had a similar shedule, but i guess you were in nappies in those good old days
all airlines has its off days but flybe have more than others, over the last year with me flying (not the whole base), i have had no cancellations, and i think my longest delay to a flight was 1hr 40 mins, due to a tech problem.
the minibus is very reliable and a pleasure to fly, especially when i have a lovely dinner table to read the paper on.
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I'm sorry but I'm going to have to bite.
No, there are lots of passengers who THINK they know. In reality...they don't have a clue. I'm not sure if you are aware but airlines have a whole network of flights to think of you see. If the flights are disrupted there is a reason for it....just because an aircraft 'usually' does something doesn't mean at that particular moment in time that is what is going to happen. Things change and you DO NOT know exactly what is going on around the network. If you'd been told your flight was delayed due to late arrival of the operating aircraft what is lies about that? The aircraft that was taking you to your destination wasn't in on time to depart at your STD (for whatever reason) I'm sorry if it's upsetting for you to have your all seeing omnipitant awareness of the universe questioned but I'm afraid it's the truth. I've had punters accuse me of lying in the past because 'they knew what the real reason for the delay was'. Airlines get you there as quickly and safely as they can in the given circumstances. It doesn't make financial sense for them to do otherwise. 
??
There is no conspiracy theory, it's not smoke and mirrors and it's not a competition to see who can outsmart everyone else and guess the real reason for the delay. Sometimes, you've just got to accept there will be delays. It's just the way the aviation industry is. We've all been delayed on various airlines/train companies etc.
As a footnote...why is it a crime that flybe are not paying the APD/tax? They have waived the fare...that is the part of their profits, not the APD!! Is there anything they do which you wont criticize?
You have managed to select one late flight to prove your point.
Of the 8 flights that have departed so far today; 3 departed ON TIME, 4 departed EARLY and 1 departed 43 mins LATE (due late I/B aircraft...see below) The remaining 4 departures today are expected to be on time (Total on time = 11/12)
Of the 7 arrivals so far today, 6 arrived EARLY and 1 arrived 45 mins LATE. Of the 6 remaining arrivals today - 5 expected on time, 1 (as you noted) is late (Total = 11/13 on time).
As for the gospel that is airlinequality. Have a look at the period of the T5 opening for BA. No complaints. Clearly...everything must have been perfect. No delays or cancellations at all...we were just imagining it. I can't take that site seriously one bit. As for having to resort to talking about the airbus dinnertable....does this mean you've run out of relevant drivel to talk?
Right, I'm off back off to my usual pprune haunts where some people talk sense. It's been a pleasure! Happy whingeing!!
Passengers in the know (and there are many)
??There is no conspiracy theory, it's not smoke and mirrors and it's not a competition to see who can outsmart everyone else and guess the real reason for the delay. Sometimes, you've just got to accept there will be delays. It's just the way the aviation industry is. We've all been delayed on various airlines/train companies etc.
As a footnote...why is it a crime that flybe are not paying the APD/tax? They have waived the fare...that is the part of their profits, not the APD!! Is there anything they do which you wont criticize?
You have managed to select one late flight to prove your point.
Of the 8 flights that have departed so far today; 3 departed ON TIME, 4 departed EARLY and 1 departed 43 mins LATE (due late I/B aircraft...see below) The remaining 4 departures today are expected to be on time (Total on time = 11/12)
Of the 7 arrivals so far today, 6 arrived EARLY and 1 arrived 45 mins LATE. Of the 6 remaining arrivals today - 5 expected on time, 1 (as you noted) is late (Total = 11/13 on time).
As for the gospel that is airlinequality. Have a look at the period of the T5 opening for BA. No complaints. Clearly...everything must have been perfect. No delays or cancellations at all...we were just imagining it. I can't take that site seriously one bit. As for having to resort to talking about the airbus dinnertable....does this mean you've run out of relevant drivel to talk?
Right, I'm off back off to my usual pprune haunts where some people talk sense. It's been a pleasure! Happy whingeing!!
Last edited by FL370 Officeboy; 13th May 2008 at 15:53.
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god I love this website................. it provides me with so much entertainment
FL370 know one talks sense on PPrune just aload of ****e......its great
11/13 flights on time, well bend me over and slap my ass, thats going to defo make the iom news today
I wonder how the rest of flybes network is doing to day hmmmmm
flybe today flymaybe 2mrw
oh i hope my LPL - IOM flight is ontime 2mrw
FL370 know one talks sense on PPrune just aload of ****e......its great
11/13 flights on time, well bend me over and slap my ass, thats going to defo make the iom news today
I wonder how the rest of flybes network is doing to day hmmmmm
flybe today flymaybe 2mrw
oh i hope my LPL - IOM flight is ontime 2mrw
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uncovered
Bloody hell don't burst a blood vessel - what safety / operational decision was this then. Luxair operate the Q400 safely into LCY do they not?
FL370 Officeboy
Hear hear and well said! It is refreshing to see someone actually make sense
The thing with Airline Quality is that people who usually use that site are people with much time on their hands. They haven't had what they want and because the person reading it cannot prove them wrong they say or type what they like. If you take a look at Carsurvey.org their flight section appear to have lots of praise for Flybe.
Wow best offer I, and I am sure many others, have had all day!
Today's operation hasn't been too bad although this morning wasn't the best start. All IOM departures were early departing though but for Europe's largest regional airline, flying between 450 and 500 flights daily they don't do too bad really.
Out of these departures 3 were affected this morning due tech but mainly a delay of between 1 and 2.5 hours. Everything else was ok albeit with a 10 minute delay here and there due to ATC and a Shares outage at SOU.
Bloody hell don't burst a blood vessel - what safety / operational decision was this then. Luxair operate the Q400 safely into LCY do they not?
FL370 Officeboy
Hear hear and well said! It is refreshing to see someone actually make sense
The thing with Airline Quality is that people who usually use that site are people with much time on their hands. They haven't had what they want and because the person reading it cannot prove them wrong they say or type what they like. If you take a look at Carsurvey.org their flight section appear to have lots of praise for Flybe.
well bend me over and slap my ass
Today's operation hasn't been too bad although this morning wasn't the best start. All IOM departures were early departing though
but for Europe's largest regional airline, flying between 450 and 500 flights daily they don't do too bad really.Out of these departures 3 were affected this morning due tech but mainly a delay of between 1 and 2.5 hours. Everything else was ok albeit with a 10 minute delay here and there due to ATC and a Shares outage at SOU.
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FL370 ...... whilst everything may have been all sweetness and light this afternoon, I was booked on BE7347 MAN-IOM due at 17.15.
Although the inbound flight arrived in MAN early at 16.40, we actually left at 20.35, 3 hour 20 mins, late and 35mins after the 'last' flight of the day because rather than use the a/c (G-JEDK) for it's scheduled return to IOM, FlyBE chose to send it to BHD and back while the 60+ pax had to hang around MAN.
Maybe shows where IOM pax sit in FlyBe's priorities.
Incidentally, I noticed the that the IOM based crew handed to a/c over to another crew for the BHD run, and presumably had to hang around MAN too. Captain sounded mighty
ed off when he had to explain the situation to very weary and fed up passengers.
I've a few good experiences with FlyBe in the last few weeks, with several early arrivals and examples of good service, but today was not very clever..........
Although the inbound flight arrived in MAN early at 16.40, we actually left at 20.35, 3 hour 20 mins, late and 35mins after the 'last' flight of the day because rather than use the a/c (G-JEDK) for it's scheduled return to IOM, FlyBE chose to send it to BHD and back while the 60+ pax had to hang around MAN.
Maybe shows where IOM pax sit in FlyBe's priorities.
Incidentally, I noticed the that the IOM based crew handed to a/c over to another crew for the BHD run, and presumably had to hang around MAN too. Captain sounded mighty
ed off when he had to explain the situation to very weary and fed up passengers.I've a few good experiences with FlyBe in the last few weeks, with several early arrivals and examples of good service, but today was not very clever..........
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Sorry you were inconvenienced today - I know the crew were disappointed not to be able to run to schedule - not for themselves, but for the impact it had on the customers.
This sort of thing hasn't happened for a long time and was not a decision ops took lightly.
I know of a couple of examples over the past six months where the programme elsewhere was delayed while an aircraft and crew were diverted to rescue a tech aircraft in the Isle of Man. It works both ways.
This sort of thing hasn't happened for a long time and was not a decision ops took lightly.
I know of a couple of examples over the past six months where the programme elsewhere was delayed while an aircraft and crew were diverted to rescue a tech aircraft in the Isle of Man. It works both ways.
Last edited by Capt. Horrendous; 13th May 2008 at 22:10.
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Thanks Capt. H for your comments...........I guess because there is no PM rotation to LTN on Tu. and Wed. until TT Week there is a little slack in the system with that a/c and your Ops. guys took advantage.
Overall though, no harm done and my recent good experiences still out weigh what happened today..........
Overall though, no harm done and my recent good experiences still out weigh what happened today..........
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I'm afraid I don't know the details of your exact case Tonq, and I am not going to reply to every complaint about flybe. However, what I would say is that there would be a very good reason if they had to delay you. Let us consider the following:
MAN based aircraft tech and due to the time of year etc, not exactly a massive amount of spare capacity at that time of the day. So, the airline is faced with the following options. They must take into account that all flights that evening, including the BHD flights are very busy indeed:
1. Cancel the BHD flights completely, stranding up to 156 passengers.
2. Move the passengers from the MAN-BHD-MAN that is tech onto later flights
3. Wait until all the other MAN Dash 8 has finished its work then use this to operate the flights.
4. Get a larger aircraft to operate the later BHD rotation, and thus combine the two.
5. Use a 'hot' spare aircraft and crew to operate the MAN-BHD-MAN
6. Operate your MAN-IOM flight on time and then ferry the aircraft back to MAN to do the BHD rotations.
7. Use another aircraft based elsewhere to operate the MAN-BHD-MAN, and then return to its base.
Pros/cons:
1. Cancelling a flight is absolutely last option (NO)
2. Not an option as all MAN-BHD-MAN rotations are heavily booked (NO)
3. That would mean a delay of over 6.5 hours for the BHD passengers. (NO)
4. Not an option, the E195 is already airborne to MXP. Plus, it isn't big enough to carry 2 DHC8 worth of pax (NO)
5. Of course, this would be the preferred option, but not available at this time (NO)
6. This would require two additonal (empty) sectors to be added into the programme, as JEDK would need to be positioned back into IOM afterwards to operate the next morning's services. Then there is the question of who would fly these extra empty sectors?
7. What seemingly actually happened. All three sets of pax get where they need to be, and as the aircraft is not required after 1800 when it is planned to return to the IOM, you are not impacting any later services. Also, no additional sectors are required to be flown. (NOT IDEAL, BUT BEST OPTION AVAILABLE)
I don't think that is a fair comment. The IOM pax were not victimised, or treated as lower priority. That was just (seemigly) the best option to keep the programme going with the least disruption and get all the passengers where they needed to be. As JEDK was not being used after 1800, this prevented later services being delayed. I can understand the frustration at your flight being delayed however and am not making excuses....I just think that pax don't really have the bigger picture and maybe my little ramble may help you understand what sort of things happen on the day.
Oh and by the way....the number of times I've seen pax whinge at the CC when option 2 has been used saying 'the airline are just trying to save money by combining flights as there wasn't enough pax' is what I was getting at in my earlier post. That NEVER happens. If flights are combined, it's because of problems.
**EDIT: Capt Horrendous got there first as I was typing so slowly! It's just as frustrating for the crews as he says as we all want to provide the best possible service we can to you. It does work both ways though operationally as was shown last month when the MAN E195 crew rescued IOM pax when 2 out of the 3 IOM airframes were tech. Your custom is important it's just sometimes these things happen. I can genuinely say though as someone who does 4 sectors a day it is very, very rare.
MAN based aircraft tech and due to the time of year etc, not exactly a massive amount of spare capacity at that time of the day. So, the airline is faced with the following options. They must take into account that all flights that evening, including the BHD flights are very busy indeed:
1. Cancel the BHD flights completely, stranding up to 156 passengers.
2. Move the passengers from the MAN-BHD-MAN that is tech onto later flights
3. Wait until all the other MAN Dash 8 has finished its work then use this to operate the flights.
4. Get a larger aircraft to operate the later BHD rotation, and thus combine the two.
5. Use a 'hot' spare aircraft and crew to operate the MAN-BHD-MAN
6. Operate your MAN-IOM flight on time and then ferry the aircraft back to MAN to do the BHD rotations.
7. Use another aircraft based elsewhere to operate the MAN-BHD-MAN, and then return to its base.
Pros/cons:
1. Cancelling a flight is absolutely last option (NO)
2. Not an option as all MAN-BHD-MAN rotations are heavily booked (NO)
3. That would mean a delay of over 6.5 hours for the BHD passengers. (NO)
4. Not an option, the E195 is already airborne to MXP. Plus, it isn't big enough to carry 2 DHC8 worth of pax (NO)
5. Of course, this would be the preferred option, but not available at this time (NO)
6. This would require two additonal (empty) sectors to be added into the programme, as JEDK would need to be positioned back into IOM afterwards to operate the next morning's services. Then there is the question of who would fly these extra empty sectors?
7. What seemingly actually happened. All three sets of pax get where they need to be, and as the aircraft is not required after 1800 when it is planned to return to the IOM, you are not impacting any later services. Also, no additional sectors are required to be flown. (NOT IDEAL, BUT BEST OPTION AVAILABLE)
Maybe shows where IOM pax sit in FlyBe's priorities.
Oh and by the way....the number of times I've seen pax whinge at the CC when option 2 has been used saying 'the airline are just trying to save money by combining flights as there wasn't enough pax' is what I was getting at in my earlier post. That NEVER happens. If flights are combined, it's because of problems.
**EDIT: Capt Horrendous got there first as I was typing so slowly! It's just as frustrating for the crews as he says as we all want to provide the best possible service we can to you. It does work both ways though operationally as was shown last month when the MAN E195 crew rescued IOM pax when 2 out of the 3 IOM airframes were tech. Your custom is important it's just sometimes these things happen. I can genuinely say though as someone who does 4 sectors a day it is very, very rare.
Last edited by FL370 Officeboy; 13th May 2008 at 23:07.
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I know of a couple of examples over the past six months where the programme elsewhere was delayed while an aircraft and crew were diverted to rescue a tech aircraft in the Isle of Man. It works both ways.
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Maybe it worked both ways, but with no competition on flybe's routes to and from the Island, I'd suggest (rightly or wrongly) it's slipping down the flybe priorities list.
The fact remains that all the aircraft, no matter where they are and what route they are serving belong to one company, and that one company must use that resource as best they can to ensure that all passengers get moved. Tonyq was unfortunately disadvantaged on this occasion, but all so easily next time, he could find himself on a MANBHD flight that drops into the IOM to help move passengers, or maybe a MANBHD/EDI/GLA flight could be cancelled to ensure the IOM flight operates. If pax become unhappy, another carrier will move in to compete - a sole market is never guaranteed!
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Otters 2000, it'd be the wrongly option.
And jobsa, if an airline has to change aircraft to serve another route, but have an option of delaying 1 of 2 flights by 3 hours... they're going to choose the one with less competition, whereby a delay will mean pissing off the same amount of pax but pax with no other option. So as flybe take over more routes from IOM and near a monopoly on the island as they do on most routes, I think that's more and more what we'll see
