ABERDEEN
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KLM state interest in ABZ-US flights
OK, so it wasn't the seat cushions! 
Vincent Knoops, KLM's Gen Mngr for UK/Ireland, has said (apparently) that KLM would "definitely consider" operating a service between Aberdeen & Houston, subject to two major obstacles being cleared:
1. Runway extension being implemented
2. Current treaties which restrict UK-US operations to airlines from those 2 countries only - open skies therefore a prequisite.
Oh yeah, &:
* Taxiways widened
* Terminal area expanded to accomodate it
* Flying pigs
* Blue moon (believe I saw one once!)
Subject to these obstacles being removed, Mr Knoops said that one of two *"Jumbo jets" could be re-routed between AMS & IAH to pick up pax at ABZ.
* Bear in mind the phrase "Jumbo jet" appeared in the local press, exercise caution!
If this ever happened, I could - just - envisage 767s or A330s of KLM appearing here, assuming the talk between ABZ, George Bush Intl & "an unnamed US airline" - CONTINENTAL - stall.
What do the other ABZ bods think?
Vincent Knoops, KLM's Gen Mngr for UK/Ireland, has said (apparently) that KLM would "definitely consider" operating a service between Aberdeen & Houston, subject to two major obstacles being cleared:
1. Runway extension being implemented
2. Current treaties which restrict UK-US operations to airlines from those 2 countries only - open skies therefore a prequisite.
Oh yeah, &:
* Taxiways widened
* Terminal area expanded to accomodate it
* Flying pigs
* Blue moon (believe I saw one once!)
Subject to these obstacles being removed, Mr Knoops said that one of two *"Jumbo jets" could be re-routed between AMS & IAH to pick up pax at ABZ.
* Bear in mind the phrase "Jumbo jet" appeared in the local press, exercise caution!
If this ever happened, I could - just - envisage 767s or A330s of KLM appearing here, assuming the talk between ABZ, George Bush Intl & "an unnamed US airline" - CONTINENTAL - stall.
What do the other ABZ bods think?
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I would imagine that it would be something along the lines of KLM's AMS-IAH with the privatair 73G. Not so far fetched at all in my opinion. CO have indeed also examined such a route.
Regards
Mike
Regards
Mike
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Didn't mean to be such a cynic but..........will believe it when I see it!
Maybe KLM are worried that, if a IAH-ABZ service with said "unnamed US airline" ever comes to pass, they will lose out on a lot of their traffic that currently route ABZ-AMS to link up with IAH flights.
Maybe KLM are worried that, if a IAH-ABZ service with said "unnamed US airline" ever comes to pass, they will lose out on a lot of their traffic that currently route ABZ-AMS to link up with IAH flights.
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Good luck to FlyGlobespan, their first ABZ route starts later today, TFS with the B738.
Interesting news re BA Connect & flyBE, what implications for BHX-ABZ & MAN-ABZ routes that BACon currently fly? If any. I read that flyBE won't take the BACon fleet which, if correct, mean a lot of spare units sloshing about. Could Eastern be interested in picking up a couple of these (be it E145 or DH8C) & expanding ABZ ops with them.
Interesting news re BA Connect & flyBE, what implications for BHX-ABZ & MAN-ABZ routes that BACon currently fly? If any. I read that flyBE won't take the BACon fleet which, if correct, mean a lot of spare units sloshing about. Could Eastern be interested in picking up a couple of these (be it E145 or DH8C) & expanding ABZ ops with them.
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bmi Reg acquired 2 more E145s recently - G-RJXN in service now & 'XO now at ABZ being readied for service. Suppose not beyond the bounds of possibilities that they could acquire more, but I agree not all 145s will remain in the UK.
Re the DH8C, T3 had one on demo to them at HUY, which also appeared for a short time at ABZ (routed HUY-ABZ-HUY). So T3 may take one or two, WOW will probably take a couple as well I would think. Although T3 did say they were happy with what they had (JS41/SB20) & weren't looking for any "new" types. Things can change of course. T3 used to have E145s, but disposed of them in favour of the SB20, which IIRC suited T3 better - more fuel efficient for the routes they use/d them on. (Don't know why, I've never been a particular fan of the Saab...looks too much like an ATP to me!)
Re the DH8C, T3 had one on demo to them at HUY, which also appeared for a short time at ABZ (routed HUY-ABZ-HUY). So T3 may take one or two, WOW will probably take a couple as well I would think. Although T3 did say they were happy with what they had (JS41/SB20) & weren't looking for any "new" types. Things can change of course. T3 used to have E145s, but disposed of them in favour of the SB20, which IIRC suited T3 better - more fuel efficient for the routes they use/d them on. (Don't know why, I've never been a particular fan of the Saab...looks too much like an ATP to me!)
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RT
Only about twice as fast as an ATP ( wolf in sheeps clothing)
Heard that T3 were not impressed with Dash Q300, nothing like Q400 old style analogue cockpit and no where near the speed of saab 2000
Only about twice as fast as an ATP ( wolf in sheeps clothing)
Heard that T3 were not impressed with Dash Q300, nothing like Q400 old style analogue cockpit and no where near the speed of saab 2000
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Some news...........
Well it looks like ABZ WILL be a winner in the BACon/flyBE shake up. Mike Rutter, flyBE's chief commercial officer, has said the plan is for ABZ to become a fully fledged flyBE base by next summer! It is possible that 3-4 aircraft could become based, flying 15-20 domestic sectors, plus possibly some Scandi routes. An ABZ-SOU route may be next, up & running by next summer. Any base could bring up to 400 jobs in the next 18mths.
INV also expected to become a smaller base, said the same report; BHD-INV due to start next month. (Base 2-3 aircraft, about 10 destinations envisaged, up to 250 jobs).
FlyGlobespan's ABZ-TFS launched yeaterday (merited only a small paragraph in the paper, unfortunately I think, due to the flyBE front page). Routed via GLA.
Tim Jeans of Monarch, reported that the AGP-ABZ route averages 86% load factor since launch, far in excess of its expectations. Looks like now operates M, W & Sa for the winter, with a mid afternoon arrival rather than late evening. Could MON look at more ABZ routes, or has it "missed the boat" in view of GSM's forthcoming expansion?
INV also expected to become a smaller base, said the same report; BHD-INV due to start next month. (Base 2-3 aircraft, about 10 destinations envisaged, up to 250 jobs).
FlyGlobespan's ABZ-TFS launched yeaterday (merited only a small paragraph in the paper, unfortunately I think, due to the flyBE front page). Routed via GLA.
Tim Jeans of Monarch, reported that the AGP-ABZ route averages 86% load factor since launch, far in excess of its expectations. Looks like now operates M, W & Sa for the winter, with a mid afternoon arrival rather than late evening. Could MON look at more ABZ routes, or has it "missed the boat" in view of GSM's forthcoming expansion?
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Heard twitterings about Air Berlin? running Aberdeen -Stansted soon.Not sure about frequency etc.Comment from BMI pilot the other day after he landed that it was like Heathrow?!.BAA get your cement mixer out pdq.Oh and order a new baggage carousel.The ONE in the terminal is getting a bit crowded.
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The super-duper Masterplan is overdue, so perhaps the BAA are having to revise it PDQ! We may get another carousel after all!! Or another shop. 
Already things are crowded despite the 2 new domestic stands. As TAD says, only 4 intl stands just ain't enough either - I've heard a/c parked as high up as Stand 8 for an intl dept. I think we need more than just 16 stands already, despite the double-parking we get on one or two of them.
We have 3 heli cos. whose terminals, despite the current boom, are not operating on full capacity & never will get back to the halcyon days of the early 80s. I've said this before, but couldn't they be persuaded to agree a deal to let the likes of T3, X9, etc operate from there? Or are the logistics of it unworkable? Or move the Flightlines to the Bristow/Scotia terminals.
Needs must?
As for the LHR comparison, was certainly busy yesterday evening! Ground freq open to 2030hrs was testiment to that, as the Twr was busy co-ordinating all the traffic, incl the heli trainers. No wonder they disappear to INV/DND/offshore these days - can Longside still be used for circuits, or is it off-limits with all the light GA there now?
About time someone returned to STN, ridiculous that it's taken 7 yrs & counting to attract a new airline onto a route that had around 100K pax carried annually before it got da chop.
Already things are crowded despite the 2 new domestic stands. As TAD says, only 4 intl stands just ain't enough either - I've heard a/c parked as high up as Stand 8 for an intl dept. I think we need more than just 16 stands already, despite the double-parking we get on one or two of them.
We have 3 heli cos. whose terminals, despite the current boom, are not operating on full capacity & never will get back to the halcyon days of the early 80s. I've said this before, but couldn't they be persuaded to agree a deal to let the likes of T3, X9, etc operate from there? Or are the logistics of it unworkable? Or move the Flightlines to the Bristow/Scotia terminals.
Needs must?
As for the LHR comparison, was certainly busy yesterday evening! Ground freq open to 2030hrs was testiment to that, as the Twr was busy co-ordinating all the traffic, incl the heli trainers. No wonder they disappear to INV/DND/offshore these days - can Longside still be used for circuits, or is it off-limits with all the light GA there now?
About time someone returned to STN, ridiculous that it's taken 7 yrs & counting to attract a new airline onto a route that had around 100K pax carried annually before it got da chop.
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The Masterplan seems to be a 300M runway extension,and perhaps the Damon Hill stand (0).After that not sure.The helicopter areas are all leased areas,and are no go areas generally.That way the BAA don't have to snow clear those areas.
The helis are going to other places because they cannot be fitted into the circuit anymore.There is extra capacity at the weekends for training,but they don't want to use it.They are a severe pain in the backside,and a lot can't accept that they are at the bottom of the food chain.Just last night BND held for 50 mins in the ADN hold waiting for a gap for a procedural approach.
I worked there in the ''wonderful'' 1980's and it's as busy now as it was then.We have a lot more PC things to do now,so our workload is much higher.Then the whole thing descends into chaos,cos the BAA can't pour enough concrete,or the baggage carousel is jammed up.
The helis are going to other places because they cannot be fitted into the circuit anymore.There is extra capacity at the weekends for training,but they don't want to use it.They are a severe pain in the backside,and a lot can't accept that they are at the bottom of the food chain.Just last night BND held for 50 mins in the ADN hold waiting for a gap for a procedural approach.
I worked there in the ''wonderful'' 1980's and it's as busy now as it was then.We have a lot more PC things to do now,so our workload is much higher.Then the whole thing descends into chaos,cos the BAA can't pour enough concrete,or the baggage carousel is jammed up.
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How many remember this A330 at ABZ,
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...RFP&photo_nr=2
A KLM 330 to IAD may one day be a very viable option for them!
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...RFP&photo_nr=2
A KLM 330 to IAD may one day be a very viable option for them!
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Come on folks... lets face it that the terminal is a joke nowadays in many respects. It is inadequate for the peak periods that we have nowadays and woefully inadequate for any expansion that takes place.
Heard that GSM's first flight was a shambles with check in problems and the security queue going right back to the domestic reclaim with pax from other flights being affected as well. Was told it left a couple of hours late.
The BAA need to remember that it is not a shopping center they run but in fact an airport. Extra security channels (with staff!!) and extra seating capacity in the departure lounge is needed. Sadly there is no room left to expand unless major reconstruction work takes place.
The design of the terminal and the airfield to some extent doesn't allow any significant expansion. The recent work to extend the departure lounge which required stand 4 to be closed was far too little and far too late!
Heard that GSM's first flight was a shambles with check in problems and the security queue going right back to the domestic reclaim with pax from other flights being affected as well. Was told it left a couple of hours late.
The BAA need to remember that it is not a shopping center they run but in fact an airport. Extra security channels (with staff!!) and extra seating capacity in the departure lounge is needed. Sadly there is no room left to expand unless major reconstruction work takes place.
The design of the terminal and the airfield to some extent doesn't allow any significant expansion. The recent work to extend the departure lounge which required stand 4 to be closed was far too little and far too late!
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Well if the BAA were serious then they need a Terminal 2.Use the present terminal as domestic.Where the current cargo building is located,build a brand new international terminal with extra stands,that could take widebodies.
The last piece of brand new concrete was the C taxiway,and they had to do that because of ICAO ruling on rotor clearances.It is the width of a pavement,and the widest fixed wing allowed is a Cessna 172.
Meanwhile in the real world brand new airport have been built at Kansai,HongKong,Bangkok,Kuala Lumpur.Singapore is rapidly expanding.Even Manila built a new international terminal,and that country hasn't got 2 halfpennies to rub together.HongKong blew up an island,and constructed the airport,road and rail link,3 suspension bridges,2 rail terminals and a tunnel is about 7 years.
Meanwhile we got a bookies,and most of the seats removed.Better get the departure tent cleaned and stuck up again.
Ps Cactus Anything bigger than an A300,or B767 can't fit on the apron.They park big beasties on 23.That causes a vast amount of vehicle runway crossings.Just what the CAA are trying to prevent with runway incursion policy.
The last piece of brand new concrete was the C taxiway,and they had to do that because of ICAO ruling on rotor clearances.It is the width of a pavement,and the widest fixed wing allowed is a Cessna 172.
Meanwhile in the real world brand new airport have been built at Kansai,HongKong,Bangkok,Kuala Lumpur.Singapore is rapidly expanding.Even Manila built a new international terminal,and that country hasn't got 2 halfpennies to rub together.HongKong blew up an island,and constructed the airport,road and rail link,3 suspension bridges,2 rail terminals and a tunnel is about 7 years.
Meanwhile we got a bookies,and most of the seats removed.Better get the departure tent cleaned and stuck up again.
Ps Cactus Anything bigger than an A300,or B767 can't fit on the apron.They park big beasties on 23.That causes a vast amount of vehicle runway crossings.Just what the CAA are trying to prevent with runway incursion policy.
Last edited by throw a dyce; 7th Nov 2006 at 22:44. Reason: a ps
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Well they'll need to getamoveon! 14% inc in pax numbers Oct 2006 v Oct 2005 - biggest in BAA Scot (BAA overall?) this time. Rolling Annual Total 3.1m.
See there was a "medium sized beastie" today with a BA A321 - is this the first time a BA A321 has appeared here?
Aberdeen Planning Committee, after much tea 'n' biscuits, has recommended approval today for the runway extension to the full Cooncil when they meet to justify their salaries next week. Could hardly do anything else could they??? (Well they COULD.....
)
How feasible would it be to "rip it up & start again"? Are there any greenfield sites around that WOULDN'T incur the wrath of some NIMBY somewhere?
Should've built that heliport out at the Bridge of Don when they had the chance in the 80s!!!
See there was a "medium sized beastie" today with a BA A321 - is this the first time a BA A321 has appeared here?
Aberdeen Planning Committee, after much tea 'n' biscuits, has recommended approval today for the runway extension to the full Cooncil when they meet to justify their salaries next week. Could hardly do anything else could they??? (Well they COULD.....
)How feasible would it be to "rip it up & start again"? Are there any greenfield sites around that WOULDN'T incur the wrath of some NIMBY somewhere?
Should've built that heliport out at the Bridge of Don when they had the chance in the 80s!!!
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Congestion
COME ON BAA, NOT GOOD ENOUGH!
An arrival from SVG (City Star) shoved into Runway 01 as all 4 (4!!!) international stands taken.
With the likes of GSM, T3, BE, possibly RYR expanding or hinting at expanding home & abroad, we need more stands NOW! International & domestic.
BAA, if you are constantly talking to airlines, which you say you are, then SURELY you must see the need to expand facilities to cope, instead of ABZ being stuck in a 70s/80s time warp. That's whether or not the extension to the runway is granted (which it seems it will be).
Does the BAA listen to ANYONE who actually KNOWS what is required, or does it just listen to its bean counters, who seem to want to concentrate resources on the likes of T5 at LHR for London Airways, or the shiny new terminal at STN? HOW ABOUT ABZ, WHICH HAS BEEN BAA SCOTLAND'S FASTEST GROWING FOR THE PAST 2 YEARS OR SO?
Don't we count?
OH, & sort out the CR@P transport facilities at the terminal. Only ONE taxi firm allowed to set down passengers at the terminal, & a rubbish bus service.
WELCOME TO ABERDEEN...NOT!!
An arrival from SVG (City Star) shoved into Runway 01 as all 4 (4!!!) international stands taken.
With the likes of GSM, T3, BE, possibly RYR expanding or hinting at expanding home & abroad, we need more stands NOW! International & domestic.
BAA, if you are constantly talking to airlines, which you say you are, then SURELY you must see the need to expand facilities to cope, instead of ABZ being stuck in a 70s/80s time warp. That's whether or not the extension to the runway is granted (which it seems it will be).
Does the BAA listen to ANYONE who actually KNOWS what is required, or does it just listen to its bean counters, who seem to want to concentrate resources on the likes of T5 at LHR for London Airways, or the shiny new terminal at STN? HOW ABOUT ABZ, WHICH HAS BEEN BAA SCOTLAND'S FASTEST GROWING FOR THE PAST 2 YEARS OR SO?
Don't we count?
OH, & sort out the CR@P transport facilities at the terminal. Only ONE taxi firm allowed to set down passengers at the terminal, & a rubbish bus service.
WELCOME TO ABERDEEN...NOT!!
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Quite agree-The "new" stands didn't really give us any more space-merely rationalised what we have been using for the last several years. What we desperately need is a stand 1/2 or1/4 at the southern end of the main apron-preferably both that will be big enough to handle A321s or similar.
Having recently returned from holiday into Aberdeen, I HAVE to say that at long last the Airport actually looks like a semi decent facilty at last-shame that it is already too small!!
What it REALLY needs though is another carousel. We waited for our bags along with three other flights at the same time-utter chaos!!
Not even Heathrow makes you wait with three others- AND they have a damn sight more carousels....
Ed
Having recently returned from holiday into Aberdeen, I HAVE to say that at long last the Airport actually looks like a semi decent facilty at last-shame that it is already too small!!
What it REALLY needs though is another carousel. We waited for our bags along with three other flights at the same time-utter chaos!!
Not even Heathrow makes you wait with three others- AND they have a damn sight more carousels....
Ed
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Indeed Ed, all the Stands 15 & 16 have done is to reduce the available parking on the Delta Apron if 15 & 16 are in use, or at the very best not change anything if they are empty, as they were parking aircrcaft there previously anyway. The actual available area hasn't enlarged just because there are the new stands, no wonder 01 is back in use after god knows how many years.
I agree with TAD re the cargo terminal, seems logical to extend the terminal to there, or build a new terminal for international flights there. Of course that leaves the problem of where to put the cargo terminal, presuming we still wish to see cargo flights & the array of Antonovs etc that arrive here.
If the Sppedbird Inn own the farmland & lease it to the farmer, can the BAA not come to a deal to rent it from Speedbird at a higher rate than the farmer does & proceed to build more parking & a new cargo terminal there? That's the only place I can think of that the airport could expand to...if it wasn't for those damn sheep! (Where's that mysterious puma that supposedly skulked about the airport/industrial estate when you need it!)
Re the runway extension, would the BAA have "primed" the contractors in anticipation of an approval by the Council, so that, when the go ahead is given, the BAA can proceed almost immediately? Or would they wait (which given my preception of them would be entirely likely) until better weather in Spring 2007? Or daren't they assume anything, given our "Cooncil"?
Finally is your Perwinnes Radar due back soon from its maintenance/overhaul, & will it be any better (ie. upgraded), or is it going to be just the same.
I agree with TAD re the cargo terminal, seems logical to extend the terminal to there, or build a new terminal for international flights there. Of course that leaves the problem of where to put the cargo terminal, presuming we still wish to see cargo flights & the array of Antonovs etc that arrive here.
If the Sppedbird Inn own the farmland & lease it to the farmer, can the BAA not come to a deal to rent it from Speedbird at a higher rate than the farmer does & proceed to build more parking & a new cargo terminal there? That's the only place I can think of that the airport could expand to...if it wasn't for those damn sheep! (Where's that mysterious puma that supposedly skulked about the airport/industrial estate when you need it!)
Re the runway extension, would the BAA have "primed" the contractors in anticipation of an approval by the Council, so that, when the go ahead is given, the BAA can proceed almost immediately? Or would they wait (which given my preception of them would be entirely likely) until better weather in Spring 2007? Or daren't they assume anything, given our "Cooncil"?
Finally is your Perwinnes Radar due back soon from its maintenance/overhaul, & will it be any better (ie. upgraded), or is it going to be just the same.
It will make a big difference to the current service (using the Alanshill radar, near Fraserburgh) as we will be able to use three mile separation again instead of five miles and the Offshore ATCOs will be able to see traffic to the South-East.
