ABERDEEN

[Golf Alpha Whisky]

Runway extension is one thing but its not THAT simple there will have to be a significant upgrade in infrastructure in terms of the terminal, car parking, baggage handling etc. I know its all in the Master Plan but the way its being reported in the media is that build a longer runway and hey ho away we go flights to Houston here we come! At least there is now a requirement to upgrade and expand the current pathetic single domestic and single International baggage belt!

As an aside - how will this impact GA at ABZ?

[throw a dyce]

GA will still be a lower priority than scheduled etc.Depends if BAA want to price you out.There are still plenty of times when GA can be fitted in.However they keep wanting to do circuits at the busiest times.Tough
Direct Houston on 2150 ish M.That will be interesting.Only aircraft that could fit on the apron is 767 size.Rest are too big for the wee drome.

[Richard Taylor]

So the revised Masterplan is out.

Immediate £10m investment over the next 2yrs, part of £60m envisaged over 10yrs.

Upgraded estimates of pax to possibly as much as 5.9m by 2030, possibly with as many as 29 stands by same time .

In the immediate term, does the extension of the international arrivals hall mean an extension to the actual terminal building, or could it be accomodated within the existing area. AND does this mean a Stand 0?? See no mention of more stands in this initial 2yr programme, although I may have missed it!

Interesting they want one of the stands to be B747/B787-sized for future, assuming the runway is extended beyond what is already going to take place.

[tangoecho]

From what I hear, they will extend out to the DHL cargo building for the new arrival hall. Moving DHL maybe up beside the snowbase.

Stu...

[throw a dyce]

I heard the runway extension is 120M to start with.That way they don't have to remove a hill.The 300M is much later.Not sure if thats accurate or not.
Wonder if it will get sold off if the BAA has to reduce it's monopoly.

[Richard Taylor]

Are the BAA intending to renovate the Intl Arrivals hall first, complete that THEN go on to the initial runway ext, or will both projects proceed together.

Also I did spot mention in the Plan of a Stand 0, but not sure if BAA mean to construct this in the first 2 yrs of investment (which they should be doing) or later.

Also the Plan mentions the closure or POSSIBLE closure of heli rnwy 23 - is that different from the Outline Plan? I thought they were definitely planning to close it as heli nos. dwindled in future yrs.

[tangoecho]

The runway ext. was always gonna be half (of the 300m) first then half in the future. Give or take a few metres

A lot of people are under the impression that ABZ will be the first to go in the BAA monopoly saga, I personally think if any have to go It will be GLA in Scotland and LGW down south. Just my opinion.
ABZ has a lot of growth in it yet compared to others in the monopoly.

Stand 0 from what I was told was gonna be complete for flyglobespan starting in the summer. Don't know if this is still the case.

Stu...

[throw a dyce]

[Also the Plan mentions the closure or POSSIBLE closure of heli rnwy 23 - is that different from the Outline Plan? I thought they were definitely planning to close it as heli nos. dwindled in future yrs.[/QUOTE]
This is just my point that BAA don't understand or give a toss about helis.Perhaps they should realise that a huge number of fixed wing pax come from offshore.OK just cut capacity by a drastic amount,screw up heli training.The heli companies are desperate for machines in the North Sea,and heli movements will continue to be very healthy for many years.The price of oil is not coming back down to 1980's levels ever again.
As for a sell off.Well the cheque is in the post there.Considering the almost non existent investment over the years,then I wouldn't be surprised at all.Just my opinion as well

[sox6]

Master plan at:

http://www.baa.com/portal/controller/dispatcher.jsp?CiID=2ea61bd763f67010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____ &ChID=a3741bd763f67010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____&Ct=B2C_CT_GEN ERAL&CtID=448c6a4c7f1b0010VgnVCM200000357e120a____&Ch=Airpor t+Expansion&ChPath=Home%5EABZ%5EAbout+BAA+Aberdeen%5EAirport +Expansion&ChIDPath=caf397dc2eb12010VgnVCM100000147e120a____ ^aa2697dc2eb12010VgnVCM100000147e120a____^dd6697dc2eb12010Vg nVCM100000147e120a____^a3741bd763f67010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____


05/23 closure mooted on the 2030 land use chart - and I don't mean it'll happen by 830pm!

I've started a thread in Rotorheads.

[Richard Taylor]

If ABZ is going to grow in the manner the BAA think it will in their Masterplan, shouldn't they be keeping 23 open, maybe even extending it to take smaller fixed wings, assuming heli nos. drop as they expect?

Knock down all the houses around Pitmedden Rd ( ) & stick an ILS on 23.
Also bring back Lawsons of Dyce...I loved their sausages!

Who is to say the heli cos. won't make ABZ a "worldwide" training base for the future? They do that to a certain extent now, do they not? Would need 23 kept open then.

Could more use be made of 18, as they do with 32? Always seems to be 16 then 18, yet landing clearance can be given for 32, at least during daylight.

[throw a dyce]

At the moment RWY 23 is used both as a heli runway for landing,but also departing off 05.This increases our capacity.Also it is used for hover work when they are in the circuit,or airtest.The only other place for hover work is on the compass area(very limited) or on RWY 16/34.The BAA do not allow it anywhere else.Close 23 and we are really s rewed.
RWY 18 and 32 have to integrated with 16/34 operations at all times.They can speed up the flow a bit,but we already do that.The problem is that every movement either crosses,infrindges,departs or lands on 16/34.
I think they are building more houses on the old Lawsons site.As for an IFR approach,then many years ago the CAA and FAA trialed an MLSfor both 16/34 and 23.It worked very well including curved approaches,but the thought of 2 go-arounds of 16/34 and 23 at the same time isn't pretty.That's why 23 is a VFR heli runway with strict cut off points,as far a heli engine faiure etc.
Mind you by 2030 I'll be retired so don't really care.
PS Richmond Irish sausages are a very good substitute.

[roach]

Having operated in and out of ABZ for a number of years I am awaiting developments with interest.
Can anyone explain to me why there has never been a CAT II installation? The runway is just long enough as it is I believe so is it down to surrounding terrain?

[letMfly]

Cat II Approaches

The ILS at both ends is Cat II capable and we have the generators (when they work). As far as I am aware the only things missing for Cat II ops are supplementary approach lighting and Cat II holding points.

[Richard Taylor]

I remember seeing the MLS trials in the 90s - a B727 as I remember & one other.

I heard it speeded up approaches to 2mins & did wonders for the in-flight cooking...pity it fried your brains as well...

Could've made Lawsons of Dyce more efficient if it had an MLS over the top of it...

[letMfly]

Originally Posted by Richard Taylor

I remember seeing the MLS trials in the 90s - a B727 as I remember & one other.

There was a FAA B727, a King Air and an Air Hanson S76 involved in the trials. I hitched a lift in the 727 for a very interesting and memorable flight. Interesting because curved approaches to 16 were flown from a start point near Balmedie down to 50ft followed by a low-go accellerating at 50ft with a pull-up at over the Bond hangar back to the start point (until a barrage of complaints from Stoneywood stopped it!) Memorable because I remember Throw a Dyce throwing his lunch up in the back
As far as I can recall the MLS trials were very successful with one installation allowing approaches to three runways.

[Richard Taylor]

Wasn't a sausage sandwich was it??

By the way, any truth that ABZ is due a movement from the north early tomorrow morn, about 0001hrs, in the form of S-ANTA?

Not sure aircraft type, but it is a Heavy & may need its Red nav light in the fog. Just a flying visit though.

A Very Merry Christmas to all on the ABZ PPRuNe forum - eat, drink &....

...if ye can.

[throw a dyce]

I was definately a vivid shade of green,but the sausage sandwich stayed down,just.Was never a good back seat pilot.
I remember the 2 pilots were like The Odd couple and had about 5 heart bypasses between them.What a vomit comet that was.
As far a CatII,I had a BA 737 do a full auto-land one day on 16.No bother at all.Just shows what can be done.Would make a difference when the Haaaaarrr comes in.

[Richard Taylor]

CPH

Looks like SAS are going double-daily on this route from Summer 2007, again using Cimber CRJs.

New flight SK 2523/4, in ABZ 0900,out 0930, thus restoring the morning service.

Joins the current SK1521/2 (1555/1630).

Probably

Edit: Also bmi Reg are introducing a Sat flight on the EBJ run from Jan 2007, according to the bmi website. Unless there was one in the Business Air days, don't believe we've had a Sat flight t/f EBJ before.

[Richard Taylor]

City Star

See in local supplement of this morning's chipper paper X9 are again alluding to new routes for 2007, presume out of ABZ (although not necessarily given they launched SVG-GRQ).
Anyone have any thoughts as to which routes they are looking at (& yes I know it still says Reykjavik in their website! )
Ta.

[Richard Taylor]

bmi Reg new flights to Kristiansand

Could be confusing since City Star operate to KristiansUnd!

bmi Reg flights are daily to KRS from 26 Mar.

Edit: Daily except Sat that is!

Edit II: Thanks to BOAC for putting my innocent query today in the correct place. My mistake for asking. No wonder some people think PPRuNe can be a rude & unforgiving place. Wouldn't be so bad but the thread was initiated from 2001. Obviously must have slipped by my vision. Still no point complaining. I'll stick to the Aberdeen Forum in future. RT 13/1/2007