Wizzair

[Jack1985]

Ryanair has only 5 a/c based,

Only 5 based aircraft in its first year of an operational base? My point is Wizz have been based in Budapest since its inception in July 2004 and only has 6 based Budapest aircraft 8 years later, going by other airline inceptions e.g. easyJet, Ryanair they've made pretty big bases at Dublin, Luton... Wizz have neglected massive opportunities in Budapest in my own view.

the same day Malev went bust

Actually they announced the expansion 2hrs after hearing FR were setting up at Budapest.

Ryanair to Open Budapest Base in Two Weeks With 31 New Routes, 2M?
Wizz Air

Wizz beat FR with moving to Warsaw Modlin

Yes they did but they undermined their position as the leading Low cost airline in Warsaw, they moved to Modlin first as you said then Ryanair announced plans to join them mostly competing head to head, but also allowed OLT to set-up at Chopin. I agree with you OLT wont be around for long but they also showed the fact that Wizz should have expanded onto the domestic Polish market years ago routes like Warsaw-Krakow, Gdansk etc.. would have brought significant rewards for Wizz with a proven strong domestic market.

[j636]

However in Italy Wizz are said to be struggling from Budapest and they are pulling out of Bergamo (July) and Forfi (October) because of the fact Ryanair's flights to the same areas have had better take up than that of Wizz. So it's not all one way despite how some of the press like to to portray it. Each company has it's strengths in the European market,

They moving to MXP. Ryanair have also express intrest to operate out of MXP but they want a better deal, just like at new airprot in Warsaw and Wizz beat them there. Will the same happen at MXP?
I beleave that all operations will move over time.

In regaurd low W6 growth at BUD you are all forgetting that FR pulled out over charges, Wizz cut over charges and not BUD have being forced to reduce charges and close a Terminal.

[Jack1985]

In regaurd low W6 growth at BUD you are all forgetting that FR pulled out over charges, Wizz cut over charges and not BUD have being forced to reduce charges and close a Terminal.

Very true I remember that spat well, but 6 based aircraft 8 years after the inception of one of the airlines first bases (second after Katowice if I remember correctly) is pretty appalling for a stronghold in a Capital City like Budapest.

[DublinPole]

They moving to MXP. Ryanair have also express intrest to operate out of MXP but they want a better deal, just like at new airprot in Warsaw and Wizz beat them there. Will the same happen at MXP? .

Modlin is going to be interesting, especially on many of the routes that start in July because they are going to go head to head with each other in all but one of the initial Ryanair routes. The Dublin Route goes head to head with Aer Lingus, who will face some stiff competition as it's impossible to book a Warsaw flight for under 100 euro with Aer Lingus most of the year. However Ryanair were the first to declare they were interested in such airport and have lobbied for it to be opened for years. But Wizz were the first to actually sign an agreement.

However Wizz Air being based at Modlin may actually go against them and work in Ryanair and OLT Expresses favour. Because they are based in Modlin, there are a lot of eye watering early flights leaving at 6am and late arrivals, some much after midnight to an airport that is 35km away from Warsaw. Sure there is public transport and taxi's, but the OLT flights are in the heart of the city, giving easier access, plus the Ryanair flights, being from other bases, are more family and transport friendly times.

I know Wizz are moving from Bergamo to Milan for the Budapest route however the loads on such flights have been much lower than that of FR having been on one myself, so whilst there is a tactical move to Milan the fact that they're not getting the loads that the opposition are has played part of their thinking that they may stand a better chance if they move to the larger, easier to access airport thinking this will draw passengers that didn't pick them when they were competing directly. The Bologna route was simply a Ryanair win, much like the routes that were withdrawn by Ryanair before even operating were Wizzair wins.

On the topic of OLT express, I flew with them from Gdansk to Warsaw a couple of months ago as a connection for a Ryanair flight to Gdansk. Nearly a full A320, I was very surprised. Free food and drink on board too for the price of just under 25 euro with free baggage.

[TBSC]

However in Italy Wizz are said to be struggling from Budapest and they are pulling out of Bergamo (July) and Forfi (October) because of the fact Ryanair's flights to the same areas have had better take up than that of Wizz.

BUD-BGY is operated daily with a stable LF over 80%. Flights from BUD and OTP are being moved from BGY to MXP because of a good deal offered by MXP as they want to attract more LCCs. I quess you can't say that the OTP flight is moved to MXP because of Ryanair.
Forli is a different case, it's highly likely that all operators will need to move to Bologna or Rimini as FRL airport reported bankruptcy and will only be financed by the state for another 4 months.

"... but 6 based aircraft 8 years after the inception of one of the airlines first bases (second after Katowice if I remember correctly) is pretty appalling for a stronghold in a Capital City like Budapest. "

It's not Southwest...
6 aircraft for an airline having 39 a/c and 15 bases is not a small base. Wizz put more aircraft where it could make more money (eg. BBU/OTP with 5 aircraft after 3-4 years). Don't forget that Malev could dump 80-100 EUR tickets for years as it was subsidized by the government.

Only 5 based aircraft in its first year of an operational base?

With another 70 grounded that's not that big achievement.

[Jack1985]

With another 70 grounded that's not that big achievement.

Major one actually, delivering constant returns for shareholders. Ryanair ground over 70 aircraft of the fleet between Nov/Mar they're maximized in use during the Summer months from Apr to Oct.

It's not Southwest...

With orders for over 120 aircraft it sure seems to be an admirer of Southwest.

Wizz put more aircraft where it could make more money

Yes and I fully agree with this. Although you saying they put aircraft in bases which make money from your own word is utter rubbish the company releases limited financial information which we are expected to believe, I'm afraid very little do.

[TBSC]

You are expected to believe while I know it.

A 5 a/c base is a major achievement with 300 odd aircraft? Kidding, right?
Financial performance was not mentioned here.

[DublinPole]

BUD-BGY is operated daily with a stable LF over 80%. Flights from BUD and OTP are being moved from BGY to MXP because of a good deal offered by MXP as they want to attract more LCCs.

Yet Wizz are only moving the Budapest flight and not the other destinations. It's clear part of the strategy is to avoid FR and there is nothing wrong with this and it's a sensible business decision as it's more likely to attract more passengers, by moving the Bergamo route.

OTP is a completely different market to MXP and has nothing to do with the Milan flights so to make such claim is ridiculous, they're nearly 300km apart. The main competing airports are Bologna and Rimini. The fact is it appears the Bologna area war has been run. I can't see anyone in such area deciding they will travel 300km to Milan to keep picking Wizz when they have Ryanair operating the same route on their doorstep.

I quess you can't say that the OTP flight is moved to MXP because of Ryanair. Forli is a different case, it's highly likely that all operators will need to move to Bologna or Rimini as FRL airport reported bankruptcy and will only be financed by the state for another 4 months.

Yet all of the other routes to Forli are being retained by Wizz, which is a little bit strange no? They withdraw the flights to the destination which has competition from FR but keep the ones that don't have competition. That is pretty obvious that it is because they have not achieved adequate loads else they'd leave it there like the other destinations.

You are expected to believe while I know it.

A 5 a/c base is a major achievement with 300 odd aircraft? Kidding, right?
Financial performance was not mentioned here.

How do you know it? If you know the financial affairs of the company then you must have some connection with them. Wizz are not publishing any financial figures so whilst that is the case everyone will talk about it, if they have nothing too hide they are free to publish their results like they have been invited to do so on a number of occasions.

Ryanair have much bigger brand recognition across Europe, and their base and customer portfolio is much more diverse over a more diverse range of countries so of course the 300 aircraft are going to be spread around many places.

Wizz tends to focus on almost exclusively central and Eastern Europe, and has no bases in Western Europe at all. But I don't criticise them for that because I realize that is where they started up and built the company up, But comparing Ryanair in Budapest with Wizz in Budapest is illogical, Budapest is the home market of Wizzair, which they've been in for years. Ryanair have only just opened the base.

[Jack1985]

You are expected to believe while I know it.

Hahah oh please.

A 5 a/c base is a major achievement with 300 odd aircraft? Kidding, right?
Financial performance was not mentioned here.

You said, ''With another 70 grounded that's not that big achievement.'' the reason Ryanair ground aircraft is for financial benefit, do grow up and read.

[AirGuru]

As most of us know FR ground planes in the winter to save operational costs as some of their typical seasonal routes are not profitable. Makes sense really.

[EI-BUD]

On the topic of OLT express, I flew with them from Gdansk to Warsaw a couple
of months ago as a connection for a Ryanair flight to Gdansk. Nearly a full
A320, I was very surprised. Free food and drink on board too for the price of
just under 25 euro with free baggage.

Dublinpole,
when I read the last sentence, I had a flashback to Debonair, who were based at LTN, low price, free baggage and food on board! Is this sustainable, low fare airline, not so low on cost? I.e. compared to the competition, offering low fares, no revenue from baggage, no revenue from catering, and operating to more convenient airports?

EI-BUD

[mart901]

True true ei-bud it does sound like a financial black hole, a lot would of course depend on just how many of those cheap fares are made available overall. Was there not some recent merger talk for OLT?

[TBSC]

DublinPole

Yet Wizz are only moving the Budapest flight and not the other destinations.

OTP is a completely different market to MXP and has nothing to do with the
Milan flights so to make such claim is ridiculous, they're nearly 300km apart.
The main competing airports are Bologna and Rimini.

I don't think OTP and MXP is 300 km apart but 1400. You say that moving of Wizz OTP-BGY flights to MXP has nothing to do with Milan and no other destinations than BUD are moved? Now that's ridiculous.

[TBSC]

How do you know it? If you know the financial affairs of the company then you must have some connection with them.

Bingo. ,,,,

[TBSC]

Jack1985

Hahah oh please.

It's still you who is making statements based on his own quesses, like it or not. Actually it's funny to see how sure you are that those quesses are right.

[Jack1985]

Actually it's funny to see how sure you are that those quesses are right.

Own guesses? I think the vast majority of us believe a company who limits financial proven statements about its current footing has something to hide. It's already known Wizz struggled to make its Romanian and Bulgarian operations profitable and claimed the bigger Hungarian division was profitable for years.. I also believe Ireland will make it to the final's of the euro's but then again we all have common sense.

[mart901]

it's all a bit black market but in fairness wizz have carried on for quite some time, out living for instance sky europe and debonair amongst other lcc. as airlines go they are quite good at charging high prices when the market can sustain it - prior to FR arriving (again) at BUD wizz were asking about £200 for a return tip to LTN, leaving EZY and even BA behind and flying higher frequency. They seem to have adopted an FR approach to prcing and ancilary revenue which lets face it is about as profitable as it gets.

[gorazd]

6 new routes from Skopje , Macedonia (???)


according to yesterdays macedonian media reports, the rumoured routes are: Munich (probably Memmingen), Dortmund, Eindhoven, Malmö, Milan and Basel (????).
not sure what is going to happen with their Treviso & Luton flights (a switch from Treviso to Milan perhaps).

few weeks ago the Macedonian government decided to grant EUR 1.4 milion (in total) in subventions to low-cost airlines . Wizz, EasyJet and even Croatia Airlines were interested in, with only one airline applying for the subventions. Looking at the destinations that leaked yesterday it must be Wizz (what do you think?).
Basel is somewhat strange as its not a Wizz destination, but Switzerland has a huge macedonian diaspora....

all this info is coming from an interview with the macedonian PM,
an official statement is expected this week

Stay tuned ; )
Cheers

P.S Come on there must be someone here already knowing the facts

[Narrow Runway]

Who knows?

I'll tell you who knows what in Wizz Air: the CEO, the Executive Vice President, the CFO (definitely) and maybe the Commercial Director.

Failing that, absolutely no-one in Wizz Air has access to the up to date figures with any certainty - at least that is how it has always been.

I don't think TBSC is any of the above people. They aren't on pprune.

The reality is this: Wizz Air is well run and VERY low cost. It has been around a good while, and I reckon it will be for some time to come.

Undoubtedly, the make money in Summer and lose it in Winter. How much, and if it balances is anyone's guess (except those named above - because they know).

One thing is for sure though IMHO. They won't reach 120 airframes - ever. The market isn't there any more, and I doubt it is returning any time soon.

[TBSC]

Bit of a shame that there is no such title as "director" at Wizz for a couple of years now.