Cityjet
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These are evidently smart gentlemen with an enviable record of success in an industry where records of abject failure are more often the norm.
They have very historic ties to ATR and because of this the planes which they procured for Intersky were by all accounts very attractively priced.
I doubt they would look at Cityjet without having something up their sleeves.
A London City-Franco-German regional (Flybe) style operator might be an attractive proposition...and potential launch customer for the ATR92 anyone?
There are surely cross border regional routes to be exploited between these countries without passengers being subjected to the almost obligatory misery of changeing Air France planes in Paris.
I await developments with interest!
SJ
They have very historic ties to ATR and because of this the planes which they procured for Intersky were by all accounts very attractively priced.
I doubt they would look at Cityjet without having something up their sleeves.
A London City-Franco-German regional (Flybe) style operator might be an attractive proposition...and potential launch customer for the ATR92 anyone?
There are surely cross border regional routes to be exploited between these countries without passengers being subjected to the almost obligatory misery of changeing Air France planes in Paris.
I await developments with interest!
SJ
I wonder what they'll do with the brandname city-jet?
Join Date: Jul 2012
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AF own aircraft CDGDUB?
I see AF own metal more often these days , is this for extra capacity or does it reflect the unwinding of Wx | AF relationship? W14 sees extra EI on CDGDUB daily now 4 a day x 174 seats , AF reducing frequency but maybe larger aircraft if WX not operating , goods WX ads re Lcy being the only real London airport rather than the other suburban ones lol
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Fully booked
Well they could be full at 95 seats and still for sale, unlikely I know but it can happen and the yield management program kicks in with a need for a larger a/c if loads go over say 100 , or whatever the average no show rate is but fair point
That dornier on LCY looks a little out of place when it shows up ,
I wonder do the suits like flying in it v the RJ
That dornier on LCY looks a little out of place when it shows up ,
I wonder do the suits like flying in it v the RJ
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I would never fly in those RJ, If I was going with AF I would chance a separate ticket with EI and hope I make the connection at CDG.
Wonder what AF will do once WX get sold off, they need to have airbus and not other sort of smaller jets on the route but then freq could suffer.
Wonder what AF will do once WX get sold off, they need to have airbus and not other sort of smaller jets on the route but then freq could suffer.
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320 today
Agreed , about 60 inb today maybe weather related as Paris had rough Wx last few days and RJ hates the thunderstorms and wind ! Still I hope Wx do ok without AF support ,
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@EI-A330-300, good point. It'll be interesting to see if CityJet revert to being a franchise of AF on the CDG-DUB route or if AF will introduce their own metal onto the route. It's a strong feeder route for them so I'd imagine they'll want to maintain a presence one way or the other.
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Cityjet to terminate Air France franchise agreement from October - ch-aviation.ch
"27JUN2013
Cityjet (WX, Dublin Int'l) will cancel its franchise agreement from a final date in October 2013 yet to be established and will then operate all of its flights currently operated under Air France (AF, Paris CDG) flight numbers on a franchise basis under its own commercial responsibility using its WX code."
"27JUN2013
Cityjet (WX, Dublin Int'l) will cancel its franchise agreement from a final date in October 2013 yet to be established and will then operate all of its flights currently operated under Air France (AF, Paris CDG) flight numbers on a franchise basis under its own commercial responsibility using its WX code."
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Interesting.
Can't quite understand from that article if it means AF is completely dumping LCY, or whether it's just switching to a codeshare-only arrangement rather than a full franchise.
I would have assumed the latter, but it says the non-LCY flights (eg EDI-CDG) will now switch to HOP.
Can't quite understand from that article if it means AF is completely dumping LCY, or whether it's just switching to a codeshare-only arrangement rather than a full franchise.
I would have assumed the latter, but it says the non-LCY flights (eg EDI-CDG) will now switch to HOP.
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Interesting.
Can't quite understand from that article if it means AF is completely dumping LCY, or whether it's just switching to a codeshare-only arrangement rather than a full franchise.
I would have assumed the latter, but it says the non-LCY flights (eg EDI-CDG) will now switch to HOP.
Can't quite understand from that article if it means AF is completely dumping LCY, or whether it's just switching to a codeshare-only arrangement rather than a full franchise.
I would have assumed the latter, but it says the non-LCY flights (eg EDI-CDG) will now switch to HOP.
I think the statement in the original article
will then operate all of its flights currently operated under Air France (AF, Paris CDG) flight numbers on a franchise basis under its own commercial responsibility using its WX code
I agree with Cyrano's reading of the story. I think that if the part of the ch-aviation report quoted had commas inserted after "flights" and "basis" it would have made more sense.
"We've been in talks with Air France for some time," Hans Rudolf Woehrl, co-founder of Intro Aviation told Reuters on Saturday.
"We're still light years away from an agreement and whether or not there will be a deal also remains completely open," said Woehrl
"We're still light years away from an agreement and whether or not there will be a deal also remains completely open," said Woehrl
A sale of the CityJet regional airline is “close” to conclusion, he [Philippe Calavia, Air France CFO] said.
Of course, this may be simply public posturing, but I hope both Air France and Intro understand each other in the negotiations... !
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 29th Jul 2013 at 01:19.
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One has to read the implied understanding that there might be an agreement, so the fact that it will only take a few light years is close ... by French standards. I'm sure the Germans know that! 
I recently submitted a candidature for a position in a French local agency to be filled "immediately" - closing date 19th July. Having had the usual zero-respose and it being T+10d, I 'phoned them this morning to find out what point the selection/decision process had got to. "I've printed off your submission," said the secretary. "We'll be considering all the applications ... in September."
I recently submitted a candidature for a position in a French local agency to be filled "immediately" - closing date 19th July. Having had the usual zero-respose and it being T+10d, I 'phoned them this morning to find out what point the selection/decision process had got to. "I've printed off your submission," said the secretary. "We'll be considering all the applications ... in September."
Last edited by CelticRambler; 29th Jul 2013 at 15:40.
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Air France made known to anyone remotely interested a year ago that Cityjet was up for sale. On 7th June, Intro were announced as the preferred bidder for Cityjet. Typically, when a company gains exclusive preferred bidder status, it is for a limited period of time - this concentrates minds and ensures either the sale is concluded quickly, or is reopened to alternate bidders after a predetermined period of time.
It's now 7th September, 3 months after the announcement annointing Intro as preferred bidder.
In the last 3 months, Air France has announced that the franchise agreement will be downgraded to a codeshare, and that the London City - Edinburgh route will be dropped at the end of October 2013. Rather more importantly, there has been very little *encouraging and public* noise about Intro buying Cityjet.
I've mentioned this privately to someone else who like me also thinks that the sale of Cityjet to Intro is having significant issues and looking rather less certain than might have been hoped initially.
I note as well, that no flights are on sale beyond the end of March 2014 but that LCY airlines still have plenty of time before committing to using any particular S14 slots. I accept also that plenty of other airlines have yet to release summer 2014 flights for sale, but the act of putting seats on sale sends a strong signal to the public as a whole that senior management actively views the company operating as business as usual in the long term.
A large profitable airline like Ryanair can afford to release seats later than its rivals because everyone believes Ryanair will be around in a year's time. A small loss-making airline whose future ownership is in doubt sometimes needs to make a little more effort than its rivals to convince others of how they should *perceive* the airline. As an example, Easyjet perceiving a weak rival and increasing Gatwick-Nantes or starting Gatwick-Dresden / Gatwick-Florence would not be helpful towards Cityjet
Anyone have any ideas as to what's happening behind closed doors or what the future holds for Cityjet ?
It's now 7th September, 3 months after the announcement annointing Intro as preferred bidder.
In the last 3 months, Air France has announced that the franchise agreement will be downgraded to a codeshare, and that the London City - Edinburgh route will be dropped at the end of October 2013. Rather more importantly, there has been very little *encouraging and public* noise about Intro buying Cityjet.
I've mentioned this privately to someone else who like me also thinks that the sale of Cityjet to Intro is having significant issues and looking rather less certain than might have been hoped initially.
I note as well, that no flights are on sale beyond the end of March 2014 but that LCY airlines still have plenty of time before committing to using any particular S14 slots. I accept also that plenty of other airlines have yet to release summer 2014 flights for sale, but the act of putting seats on sale sends a strong signal to the public as a whole that senior management actively views the company operating as business as usual in the long term.
A large profitable airline like Ryanair can afford to release seats later than its rivals because everyone believes Ryanair will be around in a year's time. A small loss-making airline whose future ownership is in doubt sometimes needs to make a little more effort than its rivals to convince others of how they should *perceive* the airline. As an example, Easyjet perceiving a weak rival and increasing Gatwick-Nantes or starting Gatwick-Dresden / Gatwick-Florence would not be helpful towards Cityjet
Anyone have any ideas as to what's happening behind closed doors or what the future holds for Cityjet ?
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 7th Sep 2013 at 10:09.
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Air France ends exclusive CityJet talks with Intro Aviation
Oh dear. Not back to square one (they do have a list of bidders after all), but certainly not positive. I really feel for CityJet frontline staff, who are holding things together very professionally in the absence of any certainty about the future.
Oh dear. Not back to square one (they do have a list of bidders after all), but certainly not positive. I really feel for CityJet frontline staff, who are holding things together very professionally in the absence of any certainty about the future.
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Reported by Ciaron Hancock (on twitter) of the Irish Times that:
- AF has given WX EUR 12m to fund losses and will continue funding until August 2014 as the sale process continues; and
- Operating loss of EUR 21.3m for 2012, carrying 2.1m passengers.
- AF has given WX EUR 12m to fund losses and will continue funding until August 2014 as the sale process continues; and
- Operating loss of EUR 21.3m for 2012, carrying 2.1m passengers.
Summer 2014 release
Taken a bit of time, but Cityjet have released seats for summer 2014. I've had a look at LCY routes:
Avignon, Pau and Toulon do not seem to appear at all - not sure if they have been dropped completely or if they will appear on the booking system later. Possible that Cityjet struggles to compete against Ryanair's services from Stansted to Toulon and Lourdes
All other destinations from London City seem to be available for the next 360 days until mid October 2014
Haven't looked at exact schedules - am hoping someone else (BALaddy - perhaps you could deploy your talents ?) might have the 2013 schedule data available to allow for a comparison
Avignon, Pau and Toulon do not seem to appear at all - not sure if they have been dropped completely or if they will appear on the booking system later. Possible that Cityjet struggles to compete against Ryanair's services from Stansted to Toulon and Lourdes
All other destinations from London City seem to be available for the next 360 days until mid October 2014
Haven't looked at exact schedules - am hoping someone else (BALaddy - perhaps you could deploy your talents ?) might have the 2013 schedule data available to allow for a comparison
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 21st Oct 2013 at 18:29.
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harrie - the headline is somewhat over-exaggerated.
175m of the 209m was down to Air France admitting that they overpaid for VLM or that VLM is worth a lot less than it was. The result is that Air France needs to formally state in the accounts that VLM is no longer worth the purchase price and explicitly state a loss on their investment in VLM. One has to consider whether explicitly announcing a one-off 175m loss on an investment in VLM should have been done in the last set of accounts, or whether it should have been done over previous years instead - it's really an accountancy timing policy question that will be done in a way that best suits the company's executives.
Remove this 175m accounting write down, and the results come in as a loss of 34m euros instead of 209m euros. Certainly not good, but not quite so eye-poppingly bad as the headline makes out
175m of the 209m was down to Air France admitting that they overpaid for VLM or that VLM is worth a lot less than it was. The result is that Air France needs to formally state in the accounts that VLM is no longer worth the purchase price and explicitly state a loss on their investment in VLM. One has to consider whether explicitly announcing a one-off 175m loss on an investment in VLM should have been done in the last set of accounts, or whether it should have been done over previous years instead - it's really an accountancy timing policy question that will be done in a way that best suits the company's executives.
Remove this 175m accounting write down, and the results come in as a loss of 34m euros instead of 209m euros. Certainly not good, but not quite so eye-poppingly bad as the headline makes out