Cityjet

[BAladdy]

Originally Posted by 'WHBM'

There are several minor destinations served from London City (Dundee for example, or several in France) which only work because they are the only service from any London airport. Having the only city-pair service is quite different to something which competes for that market with operations from Heathrow, Gatwick, etc, and/or with multiple operators.

You are right. However these routes are only a success if they manage to get the correct aircraft flying the correct routes. DND is a successful route on the D328 however lost money when it was operated by the F50. I think WX will have the same problems on the NUE and will find it hard to make operating a RJ profitable. I also WX will find it difficult to attract the loads needed to make the route a success based on the current schedule. By that I mean the routes lack of a morning departure from LCY.

[davidjohnson6]

I notice that Cityjet have yet to publish anything for summer 2013 on a number of routes - Avignon, Brest and Toulon come to mind
It's almost the end of November now. Perhaps time to start accepting bookings / making alternate plans, or is there something more strategic going on with the company ?

[jdcg]

AF trying to flog them off might have something to do with it

[davidjohnson6]

Apologies - mistake on my part
Seats are being sold on these routes to/from London City, but only on the Air France website and not the Cityjet website

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by davidjohnson6

Apologies - mistake on my part
Seats are being sold on these routes to/from London City, but only on the Air France website and not the Cityjet website

More like a mistake on Cityjet's part! The two websites use the same inventory, so someone in Cityjet has forgotten to remove the "this route will return in Summer 2013" message which prevents the booking query on Cityjet.com from going any further.

I note incidentally that LCY to Brest and Toulon are available on the Air France site, but not Avignon - the AF site currently offers an appealing (not!) connection involving an LCY-ORY flight and an AF-coded TGV train from CDG TGV station to Avignon.

[insuindi]

Cityjet is becoming London's carrier to the German regions...

Following LCY-FMO and LCY-NUE, LCY-PAD and LCY-DRS (both 6/7) have become bookable through Amadeus, starting 22APR13, official announcement will come next week.

[BAladdy]

Originally Posted by insuindi

Cityjet is becoming London's carrier to the German regions...

Following LCY-FMO and LCY-NUE, LCY-PAD and LCY-DRS (both 6/7) have become bookable through Amadeus, starting 22APR13, official announcement will come next week.

According to airlineroute.net flights to DRS and PAD will start 3 weeks earlier on 31st March 2013 with flights operating as follows:

Dresden

AF5205 LCY 13:30 DRS 16:30 AR8 x6

AF5200 DRS 17:15 LCY 18:15 AR8 x6

Paderborn

AF5229 LCY 09:30 PAD 12:15 F50 x67
AF5229 LCY 12:30 PAD 15:15 F50 7

AF5224 PAD 12:45 LCY 13:30 F50 x67
AF5224 PAD 15:45 LCY 16:25 F50 7

[insuindi]

DRS from 28MAR, PAD from 22APR.

New Routes Into Germany Dresden and Paderborn

[bad bear]

Are these new routes using slots and aeroplanes from cancelling existing routes and if so which routes are going?

bb

[BAladdy]

All routes appear to be available to book apart from one.

WX's 10 x weekly LCY-EIN service is currently not available to book after the 29th March 2013.

[quantumofcheese]

Emergency Landing at DUB 04-12-2012

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYMQt1bad7E

Believed to be hydraulic troubles

[AMS flyer]

All routes appear to be available to book apart from one.

WX's 10 x weekly LCY-EIN service is currently not available to book after the 29th March 2013.

According to Dutch Labour Union 'FNV Bondgenoten' the WX base at EIN will be closed per 29 March 2013. Slots have been sold to Transavia.....

[davidjohnson6]

There has been much discussion about Cityjet making a loss rather than a profit.
The airline operates a number of routes at an airport with a very wealthy corporate catchment. It is backed (to some degree at least) by a very large European megacarrier. It has plenty of slots at a limited slots airport. In short, it should in theory be doing at least not too badly. So why is it regularly talked about (I haven't seen the accounts) as a great loser of funds ? Is there some big reason for the losses or just a string of minor bad things which adds up to major problems ?

Please don't give some stupid "if they didn't have to pay for fuel..." comment - all airlines have to pay for fuel at near market rates as part of the cost of flying planes

[Hangar6]

WX or AF

Well long story and very odd history

Dublin HQ
High number ROI based pilots

BUT

Most ops are ex CDG so high levels of ineffeicencies, overnites, long layovers

Aircraft are high cost , low powered , heavy maintaince 95 seaters, dont do well in bad weather.

Many failed attempts at getting good utilization on each hull per day, good yield for business traffic but loads aircraft sit around all day 10am-4pm not earning money waiting for bankers to go home ...

This airline is a goldmine,no other carrier can get away with GBP500 for rtrip londub lonpar lonrtm.....but they can , problem is crap fleet, under utilized and no partners other than a weak AF KLM m they wont survive

[elfietro]

Aircraft are high cost , low powered , heavy maintaince 95 seaters, dont do
well in bad weather.

so true...

for the RJ.
what about the F50s?

[SWBKCB]

Most ops are ex CDG so high levels of ineffeicencies, overnites, long layovers

Aircraft are high cost , low powered , heavy maintaince 95 seaters, dont do well in bad weather.

Many failed attempts at getting good utilization on each hull per day, good yield for business traffic but loads aircraft sit around all day 10am-4pm not earning money waiting for bankers to go home ...

This airline is a goldmine,no other carrier can get away with GBP500 for rtrip londub lonpar lonrtm.....but they can , problem is crap fleet, under utilized and no partners other than a weak AF KLM m they wont survive

and this has been the case for years...

[Hangar6]

AF/KL and WX

I wonder with the recent launch of HOP , three of the 4 subsids of AF rebranded , WX left out.....what are the plans

F50 is a fine plane for certain routes but is small and LCY is a real asset that needs its high yield customers on decent modern jets.

WX have challenging times ahead as usual but seem to survive once they have AF support , I just fear HOP indicates that support isnt quite as good as is needed....

[Cyrano]

what are the plans

The plan is that CityJet is for sale. That's not news, it was announced several months ago (lots of spin along the lines of "all options are on the table"), and the bidding process is well advanced.

[G-JNHP]

"I wonder with the recent launch of HOP , three of the 4 subsids of AF rebranded , WX left out.....what are the plans"

As mentioned above, WX has been for sale for many months now, and it's not hard to see why: between 2007 and 2011, it generated a net loss of €226m/USD$312m.

[No RYR for me]

@hangar 6

Aircraft are high cost , low powered , heavy maintaince 95 seaters,

And

Many failed attempts at getting good utilization on each hull per day, good yield for business traffic but loads aircraft sit around all day 10am-4pm

Is actually a good combination. You rather have low capital high maintenance cost aircraft sit around most of the day instead of new high capital cost low maintenance cost aircraft.....