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Cityjet

Old 28th Dec 2005, 18:54
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Lightbulb Cityjet

Is that true that CITYJET is looking at A318s and A319s ?

They may be looking at a318/319's. LCY airport will be expanding to accept Airbus. This may cause the company to order A330/340 insted of Boeing. This news came during a meeting today with the backing of Air France. Requirments may change due to this information.
can anybody confirm this rumor?
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Old 28th Dec 2005, 19:14
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What I know is that Airbus is activly looking into A318 for LCY. Sim test are running and software adaption already on the move. Don't know anything about Cityjet and how far is LCY airport itself.
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Old 28th Dec 2005, 19:18
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I can't confirm or deny this rumour as I don't work for them but when you think about it the old "Slugs" won't last forever. Some of them must be nearly 25-30 years old already. I had heard a rumour of RJ's being bought/leased in but a A318/319 would be a good move for expanding capacity on their routes. It would save a lot of money on maintenance & spare parts but on the downside the monthly leasing costs for 1 A319 could be as much as 3 146's so it is a high cost move . To pay for an A/C like that you would need to be doing holiday charters at night & scheduled service all day keeping the A/C in use 24/7 in order to turn a profit.
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Old 28th Dec 2005, 19:32
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I reckon getting a 319 down a 6 degree glideslope would be nigh on impossible. Even with full flap and gear down it struggles to slow down on a 3 degree slope. Double the V/S and add anti-ice and it would be on idle power all the way down!
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Old 28th Dec 2005, 19:39
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Yes, that could be indeed a very good strategy because Air France is fully able to provide maintenance, and crew training.
Air France wants to make charter flights for tour operators such as Club Med...
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Old 28th Dec 2005, 19:57
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318 5.5deg glideslope certification is underway, apparently one button is the only change to permit the software to operate in steep approach.

http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...318_Elite.html
http://www.farnborough.com/media/new...cle.asp?n=1465

(edited to note AF already operates 318s...)
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 03:25
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That should be fun. We have a 3.6 degree GS at one of our destinations, the 320 barely copes.
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 06:10
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The approach path is achieved by extending spoilers the whole approach (I'm not sure if spoiler 1-5 or only partial). Before flare there is a callout "standby - standby - flare", at "flare" the rotation has to be initiated. Touchdowns well within limits. TO has weight limitations of course but on short flights no problem.

RWY length is not the problem, tarmac is!! LCY authorities are studying enlargement. Only after this the A318 might be landing there.

If you ask me its a push further down to the limit but it works...

Dani
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 08:09
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Am I wrong or did I hear that LCY also had noise restrictions which ment the 146 was one of the few types of jets( if tnot the only one) allowed into the airport?.....something I heard on Discovery Wings....could be rubbish, but I would imagine a bigger heavier ac would make a lot more noise on take-off fully loaded on a shortish runway? Interesting to hear from pilots who fly in and out of City, what are the ( if any ) considerations on approach and departure, bar the steep approach path?
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 08:52
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Any A318/319 jockeys out there who would give the realistic balanced field length required by their company before they will consider a airport for scheduled airline ops.

What kind of range do the EZY's A319s have ?
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 10:48
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Fokker 70s are approved for LCY beside the BAe145, the E135 etc. See

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/noise/london_city.html
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 11:42
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They may be looking at a318/319's
Where did you read this? There is not the faintest chance in hell of this. For a start the AF subsidiaries are not allowed operate anything that AF mainline do, secondly the scope clause limits subsidiaries to under 100 seats. As it is, Citujet can only book to 100 on the 110 seat -300. Thirdly, the political fallout of giving the Irish subsidiary decent aircraft, while Brit Air and Regional use C/ERJ's, would be huge. This is France remember. The fact that it would make sense to give the best aircraft to the only part of AF shorthaul that makes money is not relevent.

The eldest cityjet 146s turned 21 this year, with the rest almost there. The ARJ rumour is still about but no concrete signs as yet.

As for
This may cause the company to order A330/340
So far beyond the realm of reality there's nothing to be said.
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 12:33
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its only in addition to the RJ, 717, 737..........
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 12:54
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Where did you read this? There is not the faintest chance in hell of this. For a start the AF subsidiaries are not allowed operate anything that AF mainline do, secondly the scope clause limits subsidiaries to under 100 seats. As it is, Citujet can only book to 100 on the 110 seat -300. Thirdly, the political fallout of giving the Irish subsidiary decent aircraft, while Brit Air and Regional use C/ERJ's, would be huge. This is France remember. The fact that it would make sense to give the best aircraft to the only part of AF shorthaul that makes money is not relevent.
I am not so sure! Look at the Corsican airline "CCM Airlines", they used to have Fokkers 100, but they replaced them by A319 and A320s !! (well, it is also true that Corsican people have strong personality... ).

3 years ago there was already some rumors saying that the Air France B737s were going to cityjet, finally, the strategy would be to get Airbus?!! why not? Air france makes a lot of money with long haul flights, and the short and medium haul is not the priority for Air france.
Moreover Air france wants to get back its Charter airline subsidiary, so i am not very surprised that Cityjet would indeed get Airbus (and why not A330s)..
The future will tell us...

NB: a CRJ cannot land at LCY, am i right?
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 13:48
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hotelmode

CRJ is very runway hungry, so that's a no.
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 15:53
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Angel

From todays Indo:

Irish Airline CityJet to take delivery of Concorde & NASA Space shuttle
CityJet Chief Executive Geoffry O'Black n White today announced the airlines intentions to take delivery of the remaining Air France Concorde airframes to operate on the Paris CDG to London City Airport route.
" This is an exciting time for us", Mr. O'Black n White said in a press interview. " We will now be able to offer a Paris to London service where passengers can arrive before they've even left" he said.
CityJet are also about to sign a deal with NASA to operate the Dublin- Moon service 3 times daily from March '06 using 3 former NASA space shuttles. Chief Pilot Graeme Mchaggard said " Our pilots are the experts at steep approaches and short field operations, so we foresee an easy transition onto the space shuttle".
This reporter has also learned that CityJet is currently in talks with the Doctor about acquiring a TARDIS which would be used on the valuable Air France hot spare program.
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 17:13
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Wink

I heard that as well, the only problem is that Concorde cannot be landed at LCY. Nasa neither
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 18:05
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it's only a 1,320m (4,950ft) runway
According to my Bottlang plate, its 1,199M (appx 3960 ft)

BANANA HEAD
\" We will now be able to offer a Paris to London service where passengers can arrive before they\'ve even left\"
The 146s manage that already on most days!
 
Old 29th Dec 2005, 19:13
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A318 could do LCY but A319? That'd be pushing it, I think. As for parking, there are a couple of options the way I see it. They've been talking about a new apron for a few years, so if you just extend it a little (it'd be out over the water anyway) that's no big thing. The other option is over by the business aviation apron where there's a building coming down anyway. Would the A318 make sense? Yes, I guess so. By my reckoning, looking at its performance figures (and running them through my perfomance calculation program), it'd make Vienna, Rome, Madrid or Barcelona (and return) with full pax (I'm using 122) - more than any other aircraft is doing today, really - and Frankfurt and Paris easy-peasy.
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 19:58
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I don't think 319 is being cert'ed for 5.5deg which rules it out before you get into performance.
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