MANSTON
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Originally Posted by tilewood
QUOTE=Manston Airport]Tilewood there are other UK airport in the wrong place and they are doing very well.ANDY deedave and Tilewood are you part off the MAG group 
James
James
No James, by definition if an airport is in the 'wrong place' it will not be
doing very well. It is commerce, and the profit motive that determines
the success of any business, and airports and airlines cannot buck that trend.
Airlines will not be attracted to an airport just because you want them. Civil aviation is a hard nosed business, with many losers and very few winners.
Manston may find it's niche market, but if anyone can tell me where it's
mass passenger catchment area is to sustain a frequent scheduled
operation I will be interested to hear, and so will the airlines you wish
to convince. Do you think they have not done their sums?
Incidentally I do not need to belong to any group MAG (whatever that is)
or any other. I am old enough and professional enough to be able to know
what will work and what won't!
Now if you were to put in a motorway, and fast rail link directly from London
into an integrated terminal you may be onto something!!
[/quote]They do have a Motoway the M2 which goes into london
for Mass passager catchment area there is Dover Canterbury Maidstone Medway Folkstone Thanet Ashford etc We have to wait and see what happens at Manston
I hear a cargo airline will be flying at Manston soon.@ EUair are FlyGlobespan still looking into at doing EDI-MSE I know a route the was also brilliant was Alicante Malaga I think flights to Tenerife whould be good
I think Manston is more for Charter then LCC tho there are some routes that are LCC at MSE
James
Last edited by Manston Airport; 29th Jul 2006 at 16:01.
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I'll try to give my understanding of the "old" Section 106 agreement with the Council.
23:00 to 06:00 no take-offs
23:00 to 07:00 no landings, except that planes arriving from the USA may land after 06:00
These restrictions apply to almost all aircraft.
Exceptions are the usual...humanitarian flights etc
There have been several flights under Infratil's ownership that have broken these rules, one this very morning. It's not yet clear if any fines (£1,000 per movement, on the operator) are being charged.
Personally, I'd like to see all restrictions lifted.
23:00 to 06:00 no take-offs
23:00 to 07:00 no landings, except that planes arriving from the USA may land after 06:00
These restrictions apply to almost all aircraft.
Exceptions are the usual...humanitarian flights etc
There have been several flights under Infratil's ownership that have broken these rules, one this very morning. It's not yet clear if any fines (£1,000 per movement, on the operator) are being charged.
Personally, I'd like to see all restrictions lifted.
Last edited by Jes; 30th Jul 2006 at 10:06.
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Hi James.
I am a former Planestation shareholder and Thanet resident.
I am not a member of MAG.
I do not believe there is anything to be gained by the promulgation of lies and half-truths.
On previous shareholder bulletin boards there was a lot of desperate "talking up" of Manston (which I am now beginning to see on this board as well).
As a local I was able to provide accurate eyewitness accounts of how lousy the pax figures were for EUjet (despite it's cheap prices and high standards).
I recieved a certain amount of criticism from people keen to keep the truth hidden. However, I hope I prevented a few people from investing their hard won pensions by believing Planestation's misleading press releases.
Personally I lost a lot of money.
People working in aviation are perhaps prone to missing the valuable "laymans perspective".
As a frequent flyer, I now realise as I pass Manston on my descent to LHR, that people are right when they say it is in the wrong place.
While it probably looks cute from the cockpit, from my passenger seat, Manston just looks to be too far from "the action".
From what I saw 10 days ago Seguro are doing badly on passengers.
Presumably Esperia will experience the same.
Still, in the short term, from the point of view of giving you guys a few more months work, it takes the same number of people to put an empty aircraft into the air as a full one!!!
I am a former Planestation shareholder and Thanet resident.
I am not a member of MAG.
I do not believe there is anything to be gained by the promulgation of lies and half-truths.
On previous shareholder bulletin boards there was a lot of desperate "talking up" of Manston (which I am now beginning to see on this board as well).
As a local I was able to provide accurate eyewitness accounts of how lousy the pax figures were for EUjet (despite it's cheap prices and high standards).
I recieved a certain amount of criticism from people keen to keep the truth hidden. However, I hope I prevented a few people from investing their hard won pensions by believing Planestation's misleading press releases.
Personally I lost a lot of money.
People working in aviation are perhaps prone to missing the valuable "laymans perspective".
As a frequent flyer, I now realise as I pass Manston on my descent to LHR, that people are right when they say it is in the wrong place.
While it probably looks cute from the cockpit, from my passenger seat, Manston just looks to be too far from "the action".
From what I saw 10 days ago Seguro are doing badly on passengers.
Presumably Esperia will experience the same.
Still, in the short term, from the point of view of giving you guys a few more months work, it takes the same number of people to put an empty aircraft into the air as a full one!!!
Last edited by deedave; 30th Jul 2006 at 11:53.
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deedave,
pass round the knives.......
we may as well all slit our wrists now then!
Get a grip, people don't launch into these ventures without having some knowledge on the subject. Eujet figures were available for all to see. Esperia and others must have seen some potential or they wouldn't be planning to give it a go themselves.
We're/are you one of the doom-and-gloomers on the 'motley' as well then?
pass round the knives.......
we may as well all slit our wrists now then!
Get a grip, people don't launch into these ventures without having some knowledge on the subject. Eujet figures were available for all to see. Esperia and others must have seen some potential or they wouldn't be planning to give it a go themselves.
We're/are you one of the doom-and-gloomers on the 'motley' as well then?
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Twitcher.
Not "Motley Fool", I am on "ADVFN".
Some people on that board took the same tone with me as you are taking now. Along the lines of - "If Goldman Sachs and Artemis are investing then it must be a good bet - these people have done their research."
These companies lost all their money.
With respect, refusing to engage in pie-in-the-sky optimism does not make me a "doom-and-gloomer".
Not "Motley Fool", I am on "ADVFN".
Some people on that board took the same tone with me as you are taking now. Along the lines of - "If Goldman Sachs and Artemis are investing then it must be a good bet - these people have done their research."
These companies lost all their money.
With respect, refusing to engage in pie-in-the-sky optimism does not make me a "doom-and-gloomer".
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No deedave, EUjet figures were still better than what was predicted, Management in planestation/ Wiggins for years lied and cheated their shareholders, MSE and EUjet had the potential to work, again even has a shareholder you didn't have access to all figures!- it was a problem that costs weren't properly measured before the airline set itself targets!
I have no idea on the current situation in Globespan- but I imagine no as they have more or less put everything into STN now (thgis would have included the Canadian flights also)! Malaga was good, and so was Murcia- however they are very expensive to fly to and from, and are winners during the summer and holiday periods, but are unsustainable, from MSE, without the backing of tour operators during the rest of the year!
Esperia are also in talks with another airport about a different base!! Thats all I can say before people ask!! The one thing that the MD83 has going for it that the Fokker didn't, as they both have low leasing costs, is the 2nd set of steps at the back- real LCC- 'as the last passenger steps off from their flight, the first passenger should be going up the other steps ready for their flight'- no hanging around!!
I have no idea on the current situation in Globespan- but I imagine no as they have more or less put everything into STN now (thgis would have included the Canadian flights also)! Malaga was good, and so was Murcia- however they are very expensive to fly to and from, and are winners during the summer and holiday periods, but are unsustainable, from MSE, without the backing of tour operators during the rest of the year!
Esperia are also in talks with another airport about a different base!! Thats all I can say before people ask!! The one thing that the MD83 has going for it that the Fokker didn't, as they both have low leasing costs, is the 2nd set of steps at the back- real LCC- 'as the last passenger steps off from their flight, the first passenger should be going up the other steps ready for their flight'- no hanging around!!
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If somebody wants to define EUjet pax as "better than predicted", then fair enough.
Personally, I eyeballed the situation and read the stats, and they meet my definition of "lousy".
Moving on to Esperia, I have only just realised that they are marketing KIA as "London", and proposing to bus people to London Bridge.
Jesus!!!
That trip takes three to five hours depending on traffic, not to mention their onward journey from London Bridge.
Rather them than me!
Personally, I eyeballed the situation and read the stats, and they meet my definition of "lousy".
Moving on to Esperia, I have only just realised that they are marketing KIA as "London", and proposing to bus people to London Bridge.
Jesus!!!
That trip takes three to five hours depending on traffic, not to mention their onward journey from London Bridge.
Rather them than me!
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Well done deedave you looked at a few stats- but then you are somebody who invested in Planestation with the management that they had in place originally- did you read those stats also??
London Bridge is two hours from MSE, usually- but I agree still needs looking at why would someone bypass LCY- besides the fact that LCY flights cannot compete in terms of price?
Again when EUjet was looking for investors, they also read the states- even the management that you had put your trust in as a Wiggins/ Planestation shareholder! I can look at that situation and define them as 'better than expected' as I do have, what I would like to say, good knowledge of the industry for a new airline from an untested airport- they cannot compare with O'LearyAir or SleasyJet- again please look at Sleazy at the start or O'LearyAir and see their stats also!!Please read- 'Ryanair: How a small Irish airline conquered Europe' by Siobhan Creaton- on that note read what O'Leary says about the contribution that PJ McGoldrick had in the success of that airline- positive, but then again it was shareholders in planestation that blasted him, and transaer 'employees- funnily enough not the ones who were invited back into the EUjet fold! Also read 'Easyjet- the story of Britains Biggest Low Cost Airline' by Lois Jones. Those books will provide you with more of an insite into how airlines build and the remarkable start that EUjet actually had!!
Again good luck Esperia, and Michael Revis MD of Esperia if you are reading this, the vast majority of the people in Thanet aren't like certain individuals here and will support a business providing a service to the area- in fact as far as the Medway towns MSE is the closest and easiest airport, and they do support you- Just don't go too big too fast!!
London Bridge is two hours from MSE, usually- but I agree still needs looking at why would someone bypass LCY- besides the fact that LCY flights cannot compete in terms of price?
Again when EUjet was looking for investors, they also read the states- even the management that you had put your trust in as a Wiggins/ Planestation shareholder! I can look at that situation and define them as 'better than expected' as I do have, what I would like to say, good knowledge of the industry for a new airline from an untested airport- they cannot compare with O'LearyAir or SleasyJet- again please look at Sleazy at the start or O'LearyAir and see their stats also!!Please read- 'Ryanair: How a small Irish airline conquered Europe' by Siobhan Creaton- on that note read what O'Leary says about the contribution that PJ McGoldrick had in the success of that airline- positive, but then again it was shareholders in planestation that blasted him, and transaer 'employees- funnily enough not the ones who were invited back into the EUjet fold! Also read 'Easyjet- the story of Britains Biggest Low Cost Airline' by Lois Jones. Those books will provide you with more of an insite into how airlines build and the remarkable start that EUjet actually had!!
Again good luck Esperia, and Michael Revis MD of Esperia if you are reading this, the vast majority of the people in Thanet aren't like certain individuals here and will support a business providing a service to the area- in fact as far as the Medway towns MSE is the closest and easiest airport, and they do support you- Just don't go too big too fast!!
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Another fact worth mentioning was that Eujet folded just a week before what would have been its busiest time. If it had survived just another couple of months it would really have been able to show its full potential.
It wasn't around long enough to do a proper full summer season.
It wasn't around long enough to do a proper full summer season.
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Thread drift
Can we put the eujet thing to bed now please, it happened over a year ago now and, while it was a tough time for employee's shareholders and customers alike, we have all moved on.
If you want to keep dragging up and raking over old ground, please start a new thread and call it ex eujet or something, where you can go over what has been said time and time again till your hearts content.
If you want to keep dragging up and raking over old ground, please start a new thread and call it ex eujet or something, where you can go over what has been said time and time again till your hearts content.
Buzz off with BAF!!
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Originally Posted by Twitcher
If it had survived just another couple of months it would really have been able to show its full potential.
That was the point, the banks realised it's full potential was nowhere
near enough. So they pulled the plug, banks don't throw good
money after bad.
Blazing_air is right, EuJet is dead and should be buried. It was a no-hoper
and did little to boost Manston's image.
If Manston is to succeed Eujet should not keep being exhumed!!
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It would certainly be interesting to read about Easyjet and Ryanair startup, although these are different airlines, in another location, and another century.
Thanet itself is littered with the corpses of previous transport ventures which did not last.
A seafront railway station, a Ramsgate airport, a river ferry, Sally cross-channel passenger ferry, Pegwell hoverport, Ramsgate hoverport, and a variety of Manston ventures.
Recently I was surprised to read archive local press from the 1980's trumpeting Manston as an imminent potential success, and a viable new London airport. Clearly this nonsense has been going on for longer than I realised.
Expert knowledge of the aviation business is a valuable thing to have, but an understanding of the character of East Kent is more important when assessing Manston.
While it is true that there is no widespread opposition to Manston, neither is there widespread active support. Most people simply don't give a toss, no matter what politicians and the local press might try and tell you.
Thanet is not, and never has been, a "transport hub".
Yes, one could always say "give it time", but time for what?
Time for oil prices to rise?
Time for greater global instability?
Time for environmental opposition to gain momentum?
Time for more virus mutation?
Time for competing airports to develop their services?
People in the aviation business are understandably desperate to put aircraft into the sky, and there are plenty of billionaires who find aeroplanes sufficiently sexy to squander their money on them.
From that point of view, Manston may have some kind of future as a 'vanity airport', but it's chances of full commercial viability are slim because of it's location.
Incidentally, anyone who can do Thanet to central London by road in 2 hours is VERY lucky.
Roadworks and accidents are the norm, not the exception.
I always allow 4 hours before any appointment, and if I manage it in 3, I get myself a nice coffee and read the paper for an hour.
Thanet itself is littered with the corpses of previous transport ventures which did not last.
A seafront railway station, a Ramsgate airport, a river ferry, Sally cross-channel passenger ferry, Pegwell hoverport, Ramsgate hoverport, and a variety of Manston ventures.
Recently I was surprised to read archive local press from the 1980's trumpeting Manston as an imminent potential success, and a viable new London airport. Clearly this nonsense has been going on for longer than I realised.
Expert knowledge of the aviation business is a valuable thing to have, but an understanding of the character of East Kent is more important when assessing Manston.
While it is true that there is no widespread opposition to Manston, neither is there widespread active support. Most people simply don't give a toss, no matter what politicians and the local press might try and tell you.
Thanet is not, and never has been, a "transport hub".
Yes, one could always say "give it time", but time for what?
Time for oil prices to rise?
Time for greater global instability?
Time for environmental opposition to gain momentum?
Time for more virus mutation?
Time for competing airports to develop their services?
People in the aviation business are understandably desperate to put aircraft into the sky, and there are plenty of billionaires who find aeroplanes sufficiently sexy to squander their money on them.
From that point of view, Manston may have some kind of future as a 'vanity airport', but it's chances of full commercial viability are slim because of it's location.
Incidentally, anyone who can do Thanet to central London by road in 2 hours is VERY lucky.
Roadworks and accidents are the norm, not the exception.
I always allow 4 hours before any appointment, and if I manage it in 3, I get myself a nice coffee and read the paper for an hour.
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Before I say it I know that nobody will believe this but it is Kosher!!
FR are looking at Manston as an alternative to LGW. FR have never been big fans of LGW and hence why growth there had been farely static, but there is a believe that pax will travel to MSE for flights to ORK, DUB, SNN and Knock, especially now the EZY have pulled off a few of these routes from LGW- watch this space!
FR are looking at Manston as an alternative to LGW. FR have never been big fans of LGW and hence why growth there had been farely static, but there is a believe that pax will travel to MSE for flights to ORK, DUB, SNN and Knock, especially now the EZY have pulled off a few of these routes from LGW- watch this space!
