Aer Arann
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Aer Arrann Not going anywere
Taken from a another forum:
"Aer Arann has gone into voluntary examinership this evening pending a full hearing by the Court on 8 September. The airline has sustained losses of 18.5 million euros over the past two and a half years.
Examinership in Ireland is broadly similar to administration in the UK or Chapter 11 in the USA and affords court protection for those companies that are in financial difficulties but have a reasonable chance of survival.
It is anticipated that the airline will remain in examinership for at least 70 days after its court hearing on 8 September.
This will give it time to try to re-organise and re-structure and also to negotiate with an any potential investors.
Aer Arann says business will continue as normal with no flights cancelled, whether its own or Aer Lingus Regional franchise. Aer Lingus has given its backing to Aer Arann's action this evening."
Nothing Major Is going to happen, as a previous post has said, the airline will have a better bright future.
"Aer Arann has gone into voluntary examinership this evening pending a full hearing by the Court on 8 September. The airline has sustained losses of 18.5 million euros over the past two and a half years.
Examinership in Ireland is broadly similar to administration in the UK or Chapter 11 in the USA and affords court protection for those companies that are in financial difficulties but have a reasonable chance of survival.
It is anticipated that the airline will remain in examinership for at least 70 days after its court hearing on 8 September.
This will give it time to try to re-organise and re-structure and also to negotiate with an any potential investors.
Aer Arann says business will continue as normal with no flights cancelled, whether its own or Aer Lingus Regional franchise. Aer Lingus has given its backing to Aer Arann's action this evening."
Nothing Major Is going to happen, as a previous post has said, the airline will have a better bright future.
Join Date: May 2004
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Before extending "pity" and saying "it's a shame" please take the time to understand meaning of examinership and what it entails versus receivership etc. and the differences theirin.
Edit- I agree with changing the post title it is very misleading and inaccurate
Edit- I agree with changing the post title it is very misleading and inaccurate
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Examinership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For a few that down know what it is, Feel Free to look friends
For a few that down know what it is, Feel Free to look friends
Join Date: Mar 2003
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I hope that all in the aviation business throw their weight behind Aer Arann over this examinership period.
The country NEEDS aer arann.....we are an island nation and you can be sure that MOL will hold the country to ranson if there are now only 2 x players left. Otherwise - the whole of the West of Ireland is controlled by Ryanair....it doesn't bear thinking about.
Jeez....the knock-on on this could be huge!
How the hell they lost €18m I don't know.....
The country NEEDS aer arann.....we are an island nation and you can be sure that MOL will hold the country to ranson if there are now only 2 x players left. Otherwise - the whole of the West of Ireland is controlled by Ryanair....it doesn't bear thinking about.
Jeez....the knock-on on this could be huge!
How the hell they lost €18m I don't know.....
niknak
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18.5m Euros of debt, plus everything that goes with running an airline is an awful lot of anyones wonga.
Aer Lingus are in no position to financially support such a loss making operation and government aid is highly unlikely.
I feel the vultures will be circling the examiners door waiting to take up the routes supported by regional aid - I wonder if we'll see Flybe Eire or similar.
Aer Lingus are in no position to financially support such a loss making operation and government aid is highly unlikely.
I feel the vultures will be circling the examiners door waiting to take up the routes supported by regional aid - I wonder if we'll see Flybe Eire or similar.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Examinership in Ireland is the approximate equivalent of Chapter 11 in the USA.
I don't recall headlines in past years like "United Airlines RIP", "Delta Airlines RIP", etc.
I vote also to change the thread title. Better yet, merge it with the existing Aer Arann discussion thread in Airlines, Airports and Routes so there can be a single discussion on the subject rather than two fragmented ones.
We periodically and justifiably grumble about inaccurate or sensationalist journalism, and then someone comes in here and demonstrates a similar disregard for accuracy. Poor show, hichachoc.
I don't recall headlines in past years like "United Airlines RIP", "Delta Airlines RIP", etc.
I vote also to change the thread title. Better yet, merge it with the existing Aer Arann discussion thread in Airlines, Airports and Routes so there can be a single discussion on the subject rather than two fragmented ones.
We periodically and justifiably grumble about inaccurate or sensationalist journalism, and then someone comes in here and demonstrates a similar disregard for accuracy. Poor show, hichachoc.
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VirginBlue - your comment around the PSO contracts may well be true, but Aer Arann is much more than just the PSO routes. RE are flying many routes from UK regions to the Irish regions, like Luton-Galway, Waterford, Manchester- Galway etc. so yes, the PSO's give an element of income that other carriers won't have access to, but these are not really the basis of the RE business model any longer.
Yes they operate the most PSOs, but they have a network far wider than that and any reductions in services on the international network (i.e. outside Ireland) will have an impact on the regional airports.
General comment -
Aer Arann have punched well above their size for a good number of years now, the absolute convenience of travelling from London to the heart of Galway or Waterford etc is excellent. I cannot fatham why some people prefer larger airports over the smaller ones. I can say honestly that every time i've flown RE, and for a non-business traveller, its quite a lot, I have always found the convenience of flying to the heart of my destination great - it gives me so much more to my holiday than travelling from a hub airport out to where i want to stay.
I want and hope the Aer Arann brand survives and is enhanced. I want and really hope for the hundreds of people that are linked in every way to RE's operations that all turns out well.
RE state on their website that they are not going out of business, this is the US version of Chapter 11 - so many companies use that and get through it over in the USA, RE - you've gotta do it to.
Keep confident in your airline and you'll have at least one loyal customer here (although I usually book for 4).
Dave
Yes they operate the most PSOs, but they have a network far wider than that and any reductions in services on the international network (i.e. outside Ireland) will have an impact on the regional airports.
General comment -
Aer Arann have punched well above their size for a good number of years now, the absolute convenience of travelling from London to the heart of Galway or Waterford etc is excellent. I cannot fatham why some people prefer larger airports over the smaller ones. I can say honestly that every time i've flown RE, and for a non-business traveller, its quite a lot, I have always found the convenience of flying to the heart of my destination great - it gives me so much more to my holiday than travelling from a hub airport out to where i want to stay.
I want and hope the Aer Arann brand survives and is enhanced. I want and really hope for the hundreds of people that are linked in every way to RE's operations that all turns out well.
RE state on their website that they are not going out of business, this is the US version of Chapter 11 - so many companies use that and get through it over in the USA, RE - you've gotta do it to.
Keep confident in your airline and you'll have at least one loyal customer here (although I usually book for 4).
Dave
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From their website:
Details on Aer Arann’s performance will be reserved for the hearing in the High Court but in broad terms the airline lost approximately €6million in each of 2008 and 2009. Losses of €6million have been incurred to date this year predominantly due to the impact of the volcanic ash disruption. These combined losses have led to a deficit in shareholder funding of approximately €13million at the end of July this year.
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€6million in each of 2008 and 2009. Losses of €6million have been incurred to date this year = €18m in 2.5 yrs
..ok Volcano cost €6m in 2010. But 2008 and 2009 ????
..ok Volcano cost €6m in 2010. But 2008 and 2009 ????
Join Date: Mar 2008
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HI Only for the PSO contract what would be like traveling from the west to dublin to catch flight with the state of the roads i know they have improve lately but the bottle necks at the madcow roundabout, the M50 the toll bridges and late trains for us in the west that we drive on the narrow roads here.
It would be a disater if AER ARANN went under.
It would be a disater if AER ARANN went under.
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I am sure the PSOs are the least to worry about. Those routes would be tendered out again and usually there are a few airlines that are interested, often also from abroad, to pick up the pieces another carrier has left behind. Just look at Euroceltic or the situation when Cityjet did not start the NOC service.
The bigger question is how long those routes meet the requirements for state subsidies if surface travel has improved - or how long the government is willing to fund such routes if passenger numbers decrease.
The bigger question is how long those routes meet the requirements for state subsidies if surface travel has improved - or how long the government is willing to fund such routes if passenger numbers decrease.
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Aer Arann Examinership...
From a strategic point of view the Aer Lingus regional equation is right for both Aer Lingus and Aer Arann, and especially now with T2 within striking distance the benefits/potential of marketing and growing the hub at Dublin is immense.
In a quest to find investors would Ryanair holdings look to invest in or purchase Aer Arann? Would this be entertained? Would MOL see a value in capturing a regional carrier with a smaller aircraft that could with the right working capital and cost base be able to compete with carriers such as Flybe, and at the same time would MOL be able to resist capturing the opportunity to further damage Aer Lingus ... of course assuming that he was entertained in taking over the airline?
Elsewhere on the topic of restructuring the airline there certainly are some good routes, but who in airline terms would look at an investment in the company? Flybe? Ryanair? Would Aer Lingus be wise to invest its cash?
Cant see their being alot of other suitable parties.
I hope that the airline can make a go of things and get its cashflow in order, and find a way forward. Good luck to all parties involved.
EI-BUD
In a quest to find investors would Ryanair holdings look to invest in or purchase Aer Arann? Would this be entertained? Would MOL see a value in capturing a regional carrier with a smaller aircraft that could with the right working capital and cost base be able to compete with carriers such as Flybe, and at the same time would MOL be able to resist capturing the opportunity to further damage Aer Lingus ... of course assuming that he was entertained in taking over the airline?
Elsewhere on the topic of restructuring the airline there certainly are some good routes, but who in airline terms would look at an investment in the company? Flybe? Ryanair? Would Aer Lingus be wise to invest its cash?
Cant see their being alot of other suitable parties.
I hope that the airline can make a go of things and get its cashflow in order, and find a way forward. Good luck to all parties involved.
EI-BUD
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Virginblue....what airlines would be interested???? Where are Euroceltic now??
I don't agree that overseas airlines would be interested..... none came forward on the last round of PSOs. How many have the aircraft size to get into Sligo, Donegal and Galway on their runway lenghts????
no.... there are only a few players in this market and Aer Arann were the main one. Regional Airports and PSO's need frequency + small aircraft to make the whole thing work for both airline and passenger and airport.
I don't agree that overseas airlines would be interested..... none came forward on the last round of PSOs. How many have the aircraft size to get into Sligo, Donegal and Galway on their runway lenghts????
no.... there are only a few players in this market and Aer Arann were the main one. Regional Airports and PSO's need frequency + small aircraft to make the whole thing work for both airline and passenger and airport.
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As a worker within this company only a small amount of routes are not doing well the new aer lingus regional is going well with the new shannon routes very strong as well as cork and dublin, the gwy-luton and gwy-man good numbers and the waterford routes also high loads so the company is not RIP and we will fight on to keep this airline going, this process is a get out of jail card and hopefully we will with a possible investor in the wings and 70 days to restructure and we will hopefully keep going.
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In a quest to find investors would Ryanair holdings look to invest in or purchase Aer Arann? Would this be entertained?
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Virginblue - just picking up on your last point - exactly if RE didn't operate the PSO's then someone else would, and what makes a PSO viable from a public coffers point of view - well thats up to the elected officials to decide.. the point being that RE is much more that PSO's it's part of the business yes but there's more to it than that.
On a general point, i wish people would consider the value Aer Arann offers not just in terms of pricing - to my mind they are competitive - but I mean in terms of what they do and where they fly.
THe big boys are not interested in regional flying in Ireland. Sorry, but EI & FR both demonstrated that by changing business models completely. Aer Arann fits nicely into a niche, and that's something that EI have now recognised and supported again - but it's not EI's speciality - EI is the international beast, RE is the local one. Play to strengths.
Aer Arann and it's people are great at what they do, beit in Aer Arann or Aer Lingus uniforms. But, the ownership is what counts I think - if your focus is regional flying that's your bread and butter, by regional i mean domestic and short haul local airports, if you're an international carrier then bigger things come to play.
The idea of EI going back on its model to own a regional operation, would seem like a complete about-turn.. The current relationships seem to work - perhaps it's a recession induced cashflow problem most of all..
On a general point, i wish people would consider the value Aer Arann offers not just in terms of pricing - to my mind they are competitive - but I mean in terms of what they do and where they fly.
THe big boys are not interested in regional flying in Ireland. Sorry, but EI & FR both demonstrated that by changing business models completely. Aer Arann fits nicely into a niche, and that's something that EI have now recognised and supported again - but it's not EI's speciality - EI is the international beast, RE is the local one. Play to strengths.
Aer Arann and it's people are great at what they do, beit in Aer Arann or Aer Lingus uniforms. But, the ownership is what counts I think - if your focus is regional flying that's your bread and butter, by regional i mean domestic and short haul local airports, if you're an international carrier then bigger things come to play.
The idea of EI going back on its model to own a regional operation, would seem like a complete about-turn.. The current relationships seem to work - perhaps it's a recession induced cashflow problem most of all..
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Sikpupi
I wouldnt say never to Ryanair looking at it. Any move that would further impact on Aer Lingus they would find hard to resist.
Besides if Ryanair in any guise decide to get into a market that can compete effectively with Flybe.. now would be an opportunity.
Look at the wide range of routes that have closed or are operational and dont work with a 189 seater jet.
On the subject of Euroceltic you are quite right look where that ended, sadly, there isnt a good track record of commuter airlines in Ireland.
Aer Arann is a different animal than Euroceltic were, bigger and connected with Aer Lingus.
However, a low cost commuter airline with scale could do well be very successful, this I believe and each man to his own opinion.
EI-BUD
I wouldnt say never to Ryanair looking at it. Any move that would further impact on Aer Lingus they would find hard to resist.
Besides if Ryanair in any guise decide to get into a market that can compete effectively with Flybe.. now would be an opportunity.
Look at the wide range of routes that have closed or are operational and dont work with a 189 seater jet.
On the subject of Euroceltic you are quite right look where that ended, sadly, there isnt a good track record of commuter airlines in Ireland.
Aer Arann is a different animal than Euroceltic were, bigger and connected with Aer Lingus.
However, a low cost commuter airline with scale could do well be very successful, this I believe and each man to his own opinion.
EI-BUD
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A sad day for everyone at the airline but hopefully the start of something that will see them come out of examinership as a stronger and more financially sound organisation. I've flown with them a number of times and they're a good airline providing a valuable service.
I'd be interested to see who's on the "interested" parties list. I'd imagine Mr. French from Flybe will be casting his eye over the company. Aer Arann route structure could mesh quite nicely with Flybe's routes. Perhaps Aer Linugs will look to invest something as well to safe guard the Aer Lingus Regional brand. It could also be used as a route for EI to achieve cost savings in its own organisation. The caveat however is that Mr. Muller is unlikely to want to add to his job list. Finally, any one have any thoughts on whether Conor McCarthy would get back into the operations side of things? His experience from Aer Lingus Commuter, his financial backing and seeming ability to pull together a diverse group of investors could be an interesting proposition however, he'd likely look for an investment from a "big brother" airline e.g. Aer Lingus etc..
All of the above said, don't be surprised to see the ATR 72 order cancelled or deferred yet again along with the possibilty of NAC getting a few of its aircraft back earlier than planned.
Either way, I wish them all the best and hope for a short examinership with as many jobs retained as possible.
P2C
I'd be interested to see who's on the "interested" parties list. I'd imagine Mr. French from Flybe will be casting his eye over the company. Aer Arann route structure could mesh quite nicely with Flybe's routes. Perhaps Aer Linugs will look to invest something as well to safe guard the Aer Lingus Regional brand. It could also be used as a route for EI to achieve cost savings in its own organisation. The caveat however is that Mr. Muller is unlikely to want to add to his job list. Finally, any one have any thoughts on whether Conor McCarthy would get back into the operations side of things? His experience from Aer Lingus Commuter, his financial backing and seeming ability to pull together a diverse group of investors could be an interesting proposition however, he'd likely look for an investment from a "big brother" airline e.g. Aer Lingus etc..
All of the above said, don't be surprised to see the ATR 72 order cancelled or deferred yet again along with the possibilty of NAC getting a few of its aircraft back earlier than planned.
Either way, I wish them all the best and hope for a short examinership with as many jobs retained as possible.
P2C