SHANNON

[GCUFD]

Who cares about the domestic statistics, its not a big deal.

But, sure, it's SNN who are including the 'domestic' stats. Without the 'domestic' and, in particular, the Santa flights, they wouldn't be able to say they'd an increase in passengers in 2013.

The sooner we can accept that these 9,000 passengers were indeed valid passengers, as per the IATA definition, the quicker we can move on.

But, sure, this is just dodging the issue. If they couldn't have (double) counted the flights, there would have been no point in having them.


You'll appreciate, the issue is less about whether the IATA anticipated that there could be situations in which airports, in despair, might boost their passenger numbers by flying people in a circle, and more about whether SNN's motive in sponsoring these flights was to artificially inflate their numbers so that they could report a technical increase in the numbers of "arrivals" and "departures".


Seriously, if you think this issue can be brushed aside with some kind of sleeveen interpretation of what constitutes a passenger, you need to reflect a little more on the situation.

[CONAIR11]

GCUFD


What is your definition of a passenger. If an aircraft departs an(y) airport and 2 hours into the flight goes tech and returns to its departure point does the airport not record them as passengers or pretend they never existed?Remember this is about statistics not revenue. Answer please?

[GCUFD]

Your question is covered by my statement If they couldn't have (double) counted the flights, there would have been no point in having them.

[CONAIR11]

GCUFD


Passengers depart, passengers arrive. If the same passenger departs and arrives they are passengers not a passenger. end of.

[EI-A330-300]

Yes passengers departed but didn't arrive back from anywhere, its just as if the plane when tech and returned.


Were passengers issued with return tickets at check in to count as passengers.


CONAIR11 keep coming up with the excuses!!

[Kinocker]

Conair (highly appropriate username in this case by the way!), by your logic Shannon should just spend the rest of the Noonan giveaway cash flying passengers for free up and down the west coast to nowhere all day and night every day for the next year - as long as they are paying I'm sure Ryanair will be happy to oblige. They'd be the second
busiest airport on the island by the end of the year and would have plenty to write about in next year's press releases.

Counting these 'passengers' in the end of year's stats is beyond ridiculous.

[_IRL_Flyer]

Were passengers issued with return tickets at check in to count as passengers.


CONAIR11 keep coming up with the excuses!!

Nobody's making excuses EI A330 300. Can we not ask questions? You & GCFUD seem really bothered by this. I've seen GCFUD's posts on boards too.

It came two 9,000 or 8,996 because roughly 4,500 people departed SNN and the same amount arrived back into SNN. So they got counted twice. There have been comments made on this a while back.

I'm not too sure if the tickets they were issued with were return or just one way.

Agree with a previous poster, no one seems bothered about this only a few people on various forums on the internet.

. Conair (highly appropriate username in this case by the way!), by your logic Shannon should just spend the rest of the Noonan giveaway cash flying passengers for free up and down the west coast to nowhere all day and night every day for the next year - as long as they are paying I'm sure Ryanair will be happy to oblige. They'd be the second
busiest airport on the island by the end of the year and would have plenty to write about in next year's press releases.

Counting these 'passengers' in the end of year's stats is beyond ridiculous.

Kinocker, SNN is not going to spend the Noonan give away on things like this. At the moment it's doing improvements to the Terminal outside. They are going to building a new hangar as well. Air Contractors have also got a maintenance hangar in SNN now. There also 10 new routes starting in April. Your more of a NOC fan anyway so of course you'd find this ridiculous.

But, sure, it's SNN who are including the 'domestic' stats. Without the 'domestic' and, in particular, the Santa flights, they wouldn't be able to say they'd an increase in passengers in 2013..

Of course SNN are including the Domestic Stats. All Airports include Domestic Stats. The Santa flights are rightly included in this section as pointed out previously they flew from SNN and back to SNN.

[EI-A330-300]

IRL Flyer

Not overly bothered about it but it's the SNN posters trying to defend something's they said would not of being counted as passengers and are now trying to justify it as counted.

As for domestic stats they would need to be Flynn to and from two domestic and not do a circle over SNN to be domestic passengers. It's like counted passengers on a flight to London but it had to return for medical diversion so we count then as arrivals again.

Anyway look forward to the annual report to see how a profit was made in year one when numbers still declined dispute new services which would of being heavily discounted. Did SNN announce lots of cuts internally?

[_IRL_Flyer]

. Anyway look forward to the annual report to see how a profit was made in year one when numbers still declined dispute new services which would of being heavily discounted. Did SNN announce lots of cuts internally?

I don't remember SNN announcing any cuts internally.

Taking away the Santa flights, there was a very very small decline. The SNN BRS/RNS routes were dropped last year and there could of been cuts to Omni Air flights etc from SNN. CSO count those flights. When CSO publish there Dec 2013 stats next month we will get a better picture as to why there was a small decline.

Yes it will be interesting too see SNN's first Annual Report.

I was in denial about the Santa flights being counted because I thought the growth was from the new services that were launched from Shannon last year. There are posters saying its ridiculous there counted and there pretend pax etc. I disagree with all of this I think it's a good PR move for both SNN & FR. It generated awareness about the new routes that are starting in April. I think it's good to see SNN back on track. SNN is doing what it can to recover from its decline over the past few years. There will be proper growth this year with the extra capacity and new services being launched.

Seriously, if you think this issue can be brushed aside with some kind of sleeveen interpretation of what constitutes a passenger, you need to reflect a little more on the situation.

This issue can easily be brushed aside. Your one of the only people making an issue out of it.

[cloudier]

passengers count

I remember many years ago a flight from CORK was not able to land at it's destination and returned to Cork A security man at the Airport told me that they had to remove the passengers from the count as they went nowhere only from Cork to Cork

[TSR2]

A security man at the Airport told me that they had to remove the passengers from the count as they went nowhere only from Cork to Cork

What about passengers on 'Fear of Flying' flights. Their destination is their origin.

[Kinocker]

Kinocker, SNN is not going to spend the Noonan give away on things like this.

The point I am making is that it would appear that they have already done so in the form of the Santa flights.

[Jack1985]

Shannon supporters are contradicting themselves so much on this forum its absolutely hilarious,

No one is looking down on the turn-around of SNN, its a good thing.

However the basis for which they presented 2013 growth is false.

Within the DAA pre-2013 - DUB, ORK, SNN - Only counted commercial passenger statistics in the following way (DUB, ORK still do it);

COMMERCIAL
SCHEDULED DEP/ARR
BIZ JETS DEP/ARR
DIVERTS DEP/ARR
CHARTERS DEP/ARR

The term non-commercial refers to G/A plus what we call W/TRANS flights i.e. Cork to the Kinsale Gas Fields/Aberdeen oil routes. The later is counted as the destination differs from the origin - Where ever the origin is the same as the destination the actual system used does not count those passengers - Rightly so, so the question is should Cork count the G/A flights also? Shannon clearly believes this is the case - Shannon to Shannon with xmas flights had a double boost for SNN, It gave them growth and good PR - Was a good move, if they had left out counting those pax. For example in 2003/2004 in the JetMagic era we had many flights they did taking passengers up for a flight around the Harbour/Kinsale and they also had plenty of promo flights - Those figures were never counted.

Those of you thinking Ryanair done this for free? Open your eyes.

[Una Due Tfc]

It does leave a bad taste in my mouth. The local papers down here are screaming about Shannon's growth. I don't appreciate being taken for a fool and numbers being manipulated to suit an agenda. I certainly won't be losing any sleep over it, or getting in any arguments, but after all I've been hearing over the last few months about how the airport was growing again, back in profit blah blah blah and then when they realised in December that in fact it looked like they were going to record a slight loss they pull this stunt. Not right

[ryan2000]

Given that Shannon lost almost 60% of its traffic since 2007, it has to turn around at some stage. Counting the Santa flights twice was pathetic in my view. They should have waited untill they achieve some real growth in 2014.

To be honest I was surprised that they didn't achieve growth in 2013 given the extra services they produced to Chicago, Glasgow and Philadelphia. There must have been decline elsewhere in the route network most probably in the transit business.

[Vapor]

I have to agree with you all that including these Santa flights is really taking the p***.
I wouldn't mind as much if there was only a couple, but there is a significant number of them and when used in the context of an airport with low volumes, then they can skew the overall statistics.
I was quite fond of SNN, but i think they have tried to mislead people here.
SNN's growth will come in time, but it's unnecessary to pull this cheap stunt to give the impression of instant growth.

[Kinocker]

To be honest I was surprised that they didn't achieve growth in 2013 given the extra services they produced to Chicago, Glasgow and Philadelphia. There must have been decline elsewhere in the route network most probably in the transit business.

The biggest fall was in UK traffic which continues to be in serious decline. It is notable that Ryanair's expansion from Shannon includes very little UK growth so I wouldn't expect that situation to change much in 2014. Of course, the new Ryanair European routes will bring significant growth.

[racedo]

Given that Shannon lost almost 60% of its traffic since 2007, it has to turn around at some stage. Counting the Santa flights twice was pathetic in my view. They should have waited untill they achieve some real growth in 2014.

Stripping out US focused transit flights to places East what would the decline be ?

[CONAIR11]

"Stripping out US focused transit flights to places East what would the decline be ? "




Old women have gone to prison over here trying to stop these flight. Another matter entirely.

But your right. Strip out the transits and Shannon is in trouble. Strip out anything that is worth mentioning and Shannon is in trouble. Shannon like any other airport needs all the business it can get and even then will struggle. The big picture is that the terminal traffic is up. Transit traffic is volatile but has been a significant part of SNN business since it opened, the reason it opened in the first place.


Loss of SANTA flight ie: 0.0065% of non revenue business in 2014 will make no difference what so ever except that domestic traffic stats will be down about 90%. My parting comment on this matter is how sad and sickened I am at the level of cynicism levelled at the Shannon airport authority by fellow so called enthusiasts.

[EI-A330-300]

My parting comment on this matter is how sad and sickened I am at the level of cynicism levelled at the Shannon airport authority by fellow so called enthusiasts.

So its fine for the SNN enthusiasts to direct the same level of cynicism at the daa

Of course this will be you last comment as SNN supporters can't justify such figures being counted and will make every excuse to try and justify it. Maybe if the Shannon airport authority were honest about the actual passenger numbers people wouldn't have a problem with the lies?

We should ask SNN management how the increase in passenger numbers benefited the local economy, we would probably get more rubbish from them.