DERRY/LONDONDERRY
Join Date: Oct 2011
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If any airports had to close in Ulster, it probably should be one of the Belfast airports as well as Donegal airport. The main population centre in Co Donegal is far closer to Derry airport.
For starters, the PSO route to Donegal from Dublin should be rerouted to Derry.
In general the airport infrastructure in Belfast and Derry are light years behind Dublin, Cork and Shannon.
If Derry airport could hire the management of Ireland West, Knock airport, probably the most successful airport through the recession, maybe they could replicate some of the growth in Derry Airport.
For starters, the PSO route to Donegal from Dublin should be rerouted to Derry.
In general the airport infrastructure in Belfast and Derry are light years behind Dublin, Cork and Shannon.
If Derry airport could hire the management of Ireland West, Knock airport, probably the most successful airport through the recession, maybe they could replicate some of the growth in Derry Airport.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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CUT and Tower no ATC spats I seen enough of them over the years, question is what's the answer for Eglinton, previous management still work there, how I will never know, the problem still remains that money is being wasted by a small local council. They need to get a plan together that works, I think in the right hand (not too many its too expensive), the money being lost could be decreased to an acceptable amount, profit would be hard, however getting the right person is going to be difficult, however if Airports like Inverness and Southend (sold for a pound many years ago) can attract business then there should be some hope!
Trained ex LHR controllers in the past they didn't stand out!
Only kidding I am sure you are both good guys but try suggesting positive solutions to the problem!
Trained ex LHR controllers in the past they didn't stand out!
Only kidding I am sure you are both good guys but try suggesting positive solutions to the problem!
Trained ex LHR controllers in the past they didn't stand out!
As for what can be done about LDY. I've said before I believe the airport will fail to attract new routes whilst FR are there. Naturally, I appreciate they have allowed pax numbers to grow to what they are today, but is a 3xweekly 737-800 to BHX what the NW really needs? Or would a daily BE be more beneficial. Similarly with PIK. Does a half empty 737-800 benefit the airport more than the double-daily GLA that Loganair used to operate?
FR are unlikely to expand further, other than maybe another bucket&spade route. However, whilst FR are accommodated by LDY management, then why would other airlines come in?
Also, BE operated MAN for six months, and had good loads. They cancelled the route citing APD, and then started up at NOC.
Essentially, unless something spectacular happens, LDY will stagnate, FR will get bored, and routes will be cut/cancelled.
Sad times.
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It doesn't necessarily have to be an either/or situation with Ryanair though. Knock is just one of many airports that mix Ryanair with regional operators. However, it is only workable if the demand is there.
What routes would posters here like to see operated from LDY? Manchester was tried and it failed. Edinburgh never got going at all, not helped by its operator of course - but at the same time the numbers on the Prestwick route suggest that a second route to Scotland is not viable from LDY. If Ryanair cut Prestwick (which could well happen) I would expect EIR or flybe to try Glasgow or Edinburgh - probably about five times weekly - and it would almost certainly work for them.
Perhaps the reason for recent stagnation is that there are no other viable routes for now? Ryanair hits the obvious geographical targets - London, English Midlands, North of England and Scottish Central Belt with a couple of sun routes thrown in as well alongside the charters. A connection to a major hub is almost certainly not a runner for the same reasons it hasn't happened at Knock - the most suitable (or maybe only suitable) hub is already packed to capacity.
What routes would posters here like to see operated from LDY? Manchester was tried and it failed. Edinburgh never got going at all, not helped by its operator of course - but at the same time the numbers on the Prestwick route suggest that a second route to Scotland is not viable from LDY. If Ryanair cut Prestwick (which could well happen) I would expect EIR or flybe to try Glasgow or Edinburgh - probably about five times weekly - and it would almost certainly work for them.
Perhaps the reason for recent stagnation is that there are no other viable routes for now? Ryanair hits the obvious geographical targets - London, English Midlands, North of England and Scottish Central Belt with a couple of sun routes thrown in as well alongside the charters. A connection to a major hub is almost certainly not a runner for the same reasons it hasn't happened at Knock - the most suitable (or maybe only suitable) hub is already packed to capacity.
I don't think it's accurate to say MAN was a failure. It was operated merrily by BA Regional back in the day, and Flybe were getting loads in the ~70% range when they decided to discontinue it, whilst at the same time LPL's numbers were also increasing. Yield is another thing for BE, as are airport charges.
If you look at PIK, it's averaging about 90-100 pax/flight on a daily service. I'd imagine a flight to GLA or EDI might be more popular, and could easily support daily rotations, and perhaps double-daily on Fridays and Sundays.
As for other routes, BRS would be the obvious one.
Still. What I would like to see happen, and what will happen, are undoubtedly two very different things.
If you look at PIK, it's averaging about 90-100 pax/flight on a daily service. I'd imagine a flight to GLA or EDI might be more popular, and could easily support daily rotations, and perhaps double-daily on Fridays and Sundays.
As for other routes, BRS would be the obvious one.
Still. What I would like to see happen, and what will happen, are undoubtedly two very different things.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Wow, Hold the bus!
C,u there, unless I'm much mistaken, you've just agreed with some random guy who posts on here that LHR ATCOs ain't that hot.
So please spell out for us wannabes ( spell check the shizzle outta that lol) what exactly you mean?
Are you an ex LHR and DXB controller who fell in love with the Derry/Londonderry that you just had to stay. Or are you just talking BS about places you once passed through? What exactly is you're area of expertise?
Please feel free to make some sort of meaningless jibe and avoid my questions.
C,u there, unless I'm much mistaken, you've just agreed with some random guy who posts on here that LHR ATCOs ain't that hot.
So please spell out for us wannabes ( spell check the shizzle outta that lol) what exactly you mean?
Are you an ex LHR and DXB controller who fell in love with the Derry/Londonderry that you just had to stay. Or are you just talking BS about places you once passed through? What exactly is you're area of expertise?
Please feel free to make some sort of meaningless jibe and avoid my questions.
Tow Error Anger,
You're much mistaken. The comment was meant in jest. Perhaps that wasn't clear (and looking back, it probably wasn't). I'm sure you'll be having words with the original poster.
LHR ATCOs are undoubtedly excellent, Im sure you'd agree. They have to deal with huge demand (what, ~44 arrivals an hour on a good day), TEAM ops, occasional TED, limited operating hours, some of the busiest airspace in the world (alright, Swanwick deal with most of that), and demanding airlines.
Are you a current DXB controller who came to dislike LDY? Is your love of Norn Iron so strong that the draw of wonga from the desert was too hard to resist?
My area of expertise is just that. Mine. If I wished to have my identity on here known, I wouldn't use a user name. I have no interest in your identity.
What I will ask is why you find it so preposterous that someone might have a career in aviation, and then why it would be preposterous for them to end up living in the NW of Ireland, and to take an interest in their local airport?
Speaking of my local airport.....any chance of getting back on topic. If you want to continue this "discussion" feel free to PM me.
You're much mistaken. The comment was meant in jest. Perhaps that wasn't clear (and looking back, it probably wasn't). I'm sure you'll be having words with the original poster.
LHR ATCOs are undoubtedly excellent, Im sure you'd agree. They have to deal with huge demand (what, ~44 arrivals an hour on a good day), TEAM ops, occasional TED, limited operating hours, some of the busiest airspace in the world (alright, Swanwick deal with most of that), and demanding airlines.
Are you an ex LHR and DXB controller who fell in love with the Derry/Londonderry that you just had to stay. Or are you just talking BS about places you once passed through? What exactly is you're area of expertise?
My area of expertise is just that. Mine. If I wished to have my identity on here known, I wouldn't use a user name. I have no interest in your identity.
What I will ask is why you find it so preposterous that someone might have a career in aviation, and then why it would be preposterous for them to end up living in the NW of Ireland, and to take an interest in their local airport?
Speaking of my local airport.....any chance of getting back on topic. If you want to continue this "discussion" feel free to PM me.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Hey Cu-t Here
I'm delighted to have the chance to reply to your recent ramblings. I see that you've avoided my questions quite eloquently.
You talk about all these huge traffic movements at the places you've worked at but you haven't really made it clear as to whether you've ever said " Cleared to Land"or not?
Please don't hide you're light under a one thread bushel !
This may seem hard for the die hard COD supporters to accept but tonight I'm in a country of 20m people that somehow survives with just one international airport. The people here will gladly sit on a bus/train just to get within a TukTuk ride of the Airport.
Of course it's a different world, (or in ct's terms a different planet) .
The reality of life inside the COD bubble is just to suck up both governments subsides and carry on as usual.
Please don't think that I don't care, I just have a really low tolerance for pretenders.
I'm delighted to have the chance to reply to your recent ramblings. I see that you've avoided my questions quite eloquently.
You talk about all these huge traffic movements at the places you've worked at but you haven't really made it clear as to whether you've ever said " Cleared to Land"or not?
Please don't hide you're light under a one thread bushel !
This may seem hard for the die hard COD supporters to accept but tonight I'm in a country of 20m people that somehow survives with just one international airport. The people here will gladly sit on a bus/train just to get within a TukTuk ride of the Airport.
Of course it's a different world, (or in ct's terms a different planet) .
The reality of life inside the COD bubble is just to suck up both governments subsides and carry on as usual.
Please don't think that I don't care, I just have a really low tolerance for pretenders.
Hey Cu-t Here
20 million people with one international airport? So definitely not the UAE then (how's DXB coping without you?). Give us another clue. On holiday? Good way to spend it- on here!
LDY will continue to funded by the NI government and local tax-payer. If you don't like it, get back here, get on the electoral register, and vote for somebody with the mandate to implement your policies on NI aviation. Otherwise, tough.
As for answering your questions, this isn't a dating site. I assume a question without a question mark is rhetorical, or not a question. I failed to comprehend what you were asking in the other two.
Now, can you outline what you'd do about NI aviation? BFS? BHD? LDY? None of the above? Perhaps, using your logic, everything on the island, bar Dublin, should close, and we can buy a load of tuk-tuks to get us there.
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Hey cu there
I
have absolutely no problem at all telling you what my feelings are on the NI aviation/airfield situation.
However I find it kinda (I spilt it thit wey) strange that you pretend to be an ATCO ( jeez I hope I spilt that wright) Actually it's even stranger that you deny that you're from NI whilst rambling about our history！
I don't often give wanabee's this much air time so really CT you should just keep playing with your numbers and let me and guys like 'Escaped" worry about the real world!
I
have absolutely no problem at all telling you what my feelings are on the NI aviation/airfield situation.
However I find it kinda (I spilt it thit wey) strange that you pretend to be an ATCO ( jeez I hope I spilt that wright) Actually it's even stranger that you deny that you're from NI whilst rambling about our history！
I don't often give wanabee's this much air time so really CT you should just keep playing with your numbers and let me and guys like 'Escaped" worry about the real world!
Yet another genius riposte.
At no point have I said what nationality I am.
At no point have I stated my occupation.
Neither of the above are any of your business frankly.
The assumptions are yours dear boy.
Go on then. This is PPRuNe after all. A well thought out, realistic, balanced, reasoned suggestion for aviation policy in NI. The floor's yours. Crack on.
As I've said before. If you want to keep the non-LDY-related discussion going, feel free to PM me. I'm sure the other readers are getting bored. I know I am.
Ni-night now.
At no point have I said what nationality I am.
At no point have I stated my occupation.
Neither of the above are any of your business frankly.
The assumptions are yours dear boy.
I
have absolutely no problem at all telling you what my feelings are on the NI aviation/airfield situation.
have absolutely no problem at all telling you what my feelings are on the NI aviation/airfield situation.
As I've said before. If you want to keep the non-LDY-related discussion going, feel free to PM me. I'm sure the other readers are getting bored. I know I am.
Ni-night now.
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Apologies to the other 4 readers on here.
CutHere, I must have missed the the part where you actually answered my questions so please excuse me if I just draw random conclusions
Would it be fair to say that although you claim to have worked at Heathrow/Frankfurt n Dubai you may have slightly over egged your pudding？三
Please stop pretending that you are an ATCO because that is insulting to those of us that do the job. Also if, as you now claim, you are not from Northern Ireland have a serious think about the complete drivel you splurge on this forum about things you can't comprehend.
Or maybe everything you say is compete fiction. Who Knows?
CutHere, I must have missed the the part where you actually answered my questions so please excuse me if I just draw random conclusions
Would it be fair to say that although you claim to have worked at Heathrow/Frankfurt n Dubai you may have slightly over egged your pudding？三
Please stop pretending that you are an ATCO because that is insulting to those of us that do the job. Also if, as you now claim, you are not from Northern Ireland have a serious think about the complete drivel you splurge on this forum about things you can't comprehend.
Or maybe everything you say is compete fiction. Who Knows?
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So guys what is a sensible amount per annum for CoD to lose? Lets face it every pound spent locally by a visitor is for the greater good!
Cut if you are as well versed as you claim lets have some sensible susgestions on what is a local issue that has been a big topic in the North West since the late 80s.
Personally I think it needs to be run more like a proper business not by committee and some sort of targets set, I think the economy will start to recover soon so CoD needs to decide now to get a few quid out of those few hundred thousand pax.
Those that hide usually have something to hide.........................
Cut if you are as well versed as you claim lets have some sensible susgestions on what is a local issue that has been a big topic in the North West since the late 80s.
Personally I think it needs to be run more like a proper business not by committee and some sort of targets set, I think the economy will start to recover soon so CoD needs to decide now to get a few quid out of those few hundred thousand pax.
Those that hide usually have something to hide.........................
Last edited by escapedATCO; 2nd Oct 2013 at 09:05.
Join Date: May 2011
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Tower - maybe cuthere refers to his lobotomy scar? From my humble and modest aviation background I doubt cuthere is an atco, perhaps he has been at Heathrow etc but I would suggest it was in a spotting capacity.
Thats what pprune appears to have changed into, I used to read these forums becasue I was/am interested in airports as businesses but the spotters have hijacked most threads.
Incidentally LDY is a busted flush, I am amazed the powers that be keep pouring money into it. I run a small business and before I invest any money into anything new I have to be able to justify it and satisfy myself that I will see a return at some stage. The point has already been raised by someone where some local houses were flattened, how hacked off will those people be when someone finally wises up and turns the lights out at LDY?
Thats what pprune appears to have changed into, I used to read these forums becasue I was/am interested in airports as businesses but the spotters have hijacked most threads.Incidentally LDY is a busted flush, I am amazed the powers that be keep pouring money into it. I run a small business and before I invest any money into anything new I have to be able to justify it and satisfy myself that I will see a return at some stage. The point has already been raised by someone where some local houses were flattened, how hacked off will those people be when someone finally wises up and turns the lights out at LDY?
Wooooaaahh!! Pan, I've read with interest your posts on the BHD thread where personal insults seem to be your modus operandi. Not sure why you felt the need to bring that over here.
Tower, can you show me a quote where I said was an ATCO? Can you show me a quote where I've said what I do for a living? Can you show me a terms of use of these forums where I have to tell other users who I am and what I do?
Frankfurt, Dubai, Heathrow, various RAF stations. I've worked at them all since 1995, and PPP, I do like aviation. It'd be a bit ridiculous not to. However, a spotter I am most certainly not, but a full and interesting career I have indeed had.
Keep the insults coming chaps/(oh sorry Tower, ladies). I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve with it, but if it's good sport and passes a few hours, happy days.
P.s. Tower, I'm still waiting for your NI aviation policy. And remember, reasoned, realistic and balanced. I'd be genuinely interested to read it.
Toodle pip.
Tower, can you show me a quote where I said was an ATCO? Can you show me a quote where I've said what I do for a living? Can you show me a terms of use of these forums where I have to tell other users who I am and what I do?
Frankfurt, Dubai, Heathrow, various RAF stations. I've worked at them all since 1995, and PPP, I do like aviation. It'd be a bit ridiculous not to. However, a spotter I am most certainly not, but a full and interesting career I have indeed had.
Keep the insults coming chaps/(oh sorry Tower, ladies). I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve with it, but if it's good sport and passes a few hours, happy days.
P.s. Tower, I'm still waiting for your NI aviation policy. And remember, reasoned, realistic and balanced. I'd be genuinely interested to read it.
Toodle pip.
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Agreed! This used to be an informative thread but it has descended into a pathetic immature squabble between two individuals. Please take your playground spat elsewhere.
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Yeah really boring, that and the lets close CfN, BHD and LDY and make everyone have to drive instead of flying where they want......all so plane spotting can be more frenetic.
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Excuse me for making one last post on this "informative thread" lol.
But when I've been genuine about where I work and someone chirps in to mention that they've worked busier places and also agrees with another poster that he thinks Heathrow ATCOs ain't all that I think that I am quite entitled to enquire about that guys credentials.
Of course i could have been more diplomatic but please excuse me for having a low tolerance for wannabes.
CutHere, looking out of the window at the busy places you've been to isn't quite the same as what I do for a living but feel free to embarrass yourself with the comparison.
But when I've been genuine about where I work and someone chirps in to mention that they've worked busier places and also agrees with another poster that he thinks Heathrow ATCOs ain't all that I think that I am quite entitled to enquire about that guys credentials.
Of course i could have been more diplomatic but please excuse me for having a low tolerance for wannabes.
CutHere, looking out of the window at the busy places you've been to isn't quite the same as what I do for a living but feel free to embarrass yourself with the comparison.