reptile

Not 100% correct. Off hand, I can think of at least one who is not interested - but then I might be the only one.

Living in denial?

Let’s see now:
1. Fantastic destinations - absolutely: if you like long-haul. On the other hand, if any sector longer than three hours bores the living crap out of you (not to mention listening to HF and staring at a black windscreen), the novelty wears off rather quickly.

2. Great salary - no doubt. That is of course if you don’t already earn a generous salary, and your roster is such that it allows you to run a successful business.

3. State of the art aircraft - always attractive. Would you make a change for that if you are already flying a new generation full EFIS jet?

4. Brilliant reputation operationally. Good thing you added the “operationally” bit!

5. Excellent benefits. Most large airlines already have those.

Now consider this:
1. Give up current command and slot in at the bottom of the list.

2. Spend hours on end (granted, not every day) in the cockpit with a stuck-up old fart that should be at home irritating the crap out of his family instead of his long suffering FO.

3. Wait a decade or more for upgrade - the official waiting period - while cadets and other pilots more junior pass you by in an attempt to make the airline demographically more acceptable to its political masters. (Not in large numbers just yet - but we'll wait and see. And "no", SAAPA will not be able to prevent it - despite what you might have to say to the contrary .)

4. Sit and watch as the airline slowy descends further into bankruptcy - despite aircrew working their collective butts off - thanks to management so incompetent it boggles the mind. (If you don’t think the plug is going to get pulled on the little circus one day, you might just be in denial.)

and
I have no doubt that there are many pilots who would give their left nut for a job a SAA - but believing that all pilots want that is touch arrogant. I for one don’t think of SAA as an unattractive career. I simply do not find it attractive enough (by quite a bit, come think of it!).

Using your brilliant logic, I’m quite happy to accept that I’m “a masochist” and "in denial”.

P.S. I would give my left nut for a pair of the walk-on-water-shoes you gents get issued with - would make clearing the pool of leaves a hell of a lot easier!

FlingWingKing

Hey reptile

Care to tell us why you are not interested in flying for SAA?

I am REALLY curious to know what chaps like you have against being employed by SAA.

Apart from not having the best management team in the industry....oh, wait....just heard that the pilots at "once"time are a bit upset....and VB does not get invited to pub evenings....and Roger the Dodger...and...and...and...

...we get a lousy salary, get to fly 6 year old aircraft, stay in real crappy 5 star hotels...are forced to take at least 21 days leave of the 40 days allocated to us...have an "underhand" association fighting for beter working conditions etc...etc...etc...

...definitly NOT a company you want to work for......

reptile

Are you having trouble in the reading department?

Re-read my previous post, and then ask me a question that won't make burst into uncontrollable laughter.

FlingWingKing

Not having any trouble in the reading department mate!!

Would have helped if you posted your "full" reply the first time and not edited it while I was replying........

Sounds to me as if you are digging deep to find excuses for failing the interview.........

You made some valid points though....pity you have the wrong end of the "fact" stick....

Enjoy your command....maybe one day you will also be a "stuck-up old fart" irritating your FO because you have to fly AND run a bussiness so you can afford to retire at 65.....

Maybe you are right about the plug being pulled at our "little circus"....but if Zimbabwe can still find the means to operate a "little circus", I can assure you its gonna take a loooooong time before the powers at be is going to give up this "little circus" status symbol. Bad management we have had, so has many other airlines....maybe even the one you have sworn allegiance to....but SAA is still the best airline to work for inside the borders of good old SA....thats to say if you havent fled yet....

So, stay where you are and if you are REALLY interested in those shoes, send me a postal address and I'll send you some....compliments of the "circus"....

reptile

Nice try. Sounds like you're the one pi$$ing into the wind here.

'Nough said. 121.5 Good day and good luck.

jbayfan

Ever heard of Satcom, ACARS and TCAS?? No need to listen to HF or stare at black windscreens. And we have a bidding system so if you don't like long haul, bid domestic, and if you like weekends off, bid for the freighters, and if you don't like london, don't bid for the B744 etc. etc.
Reptile, without trying to give too much away, our entry level pilots make more than you do. We also get 40 days leave a year and a minimum average of 10 duty free days off per month. We are guaranteed 4 DFD's in a row on the long haul every month, which taken back to back gives us an additional 8 days "leave" every two months. And some of our pilots run very successful businesses on the side - when did you last frequent HiFlyerz?? AND BY THE WAY, we have proven that we are one of the most productive pilot groups in the world!!
If it only seats 50 pax and doesn't have an autothrottle, YES!! But certainly a step up from a Dash 8!!
Shows I'm being honest!!
We have one of the most generous travel agreements in the world (a Captain gets six international flights for free in first class for his entire family every year (kids must be over sixteen to sit in first class) and FO's get the same in business class), albeit that these travel benefits were originally gained through salary sacrifices 12 years ago, a highly tax efficient pay package and a strong regulating agreement.
You'd be making more money and would eventually be able to give up having to run a business to make ends meet!!
You'd be saving some poor SAX FO from being stuck with you and listening to you whinging about SAA!!
Time to command is reducing to 11 years - and a large portion of our senior short range / junior long range Captains waited 17 years. And EE is not a threat - with the rapid expansion on the way the numbers will start right-sizing very soon.
Management has now had a major wake up call and are finally making the tough decisions they should have years ago i.e. Expand the airline operationally to get the number of employees per aircraft right (more aircraft, more pilots and more flight attendants, LOTS MORE!!), get rid of surplus support staff employees, cut back on excessive non-essential duty travel (freebies), and various other initiatives which are currently confidential!! And with 2010 coming and a couple of LCC airlines taking huge strain with the introduction of Mango (mainly due to their inability to retain flight deck crew) but also with revenue being affected, SAA is in a strong position and things can only get better!!

And by the way, welcome Reptile, you are first on the denial list. Sorry to hear about you not making it through the SAA interview process though!!

Deskjocky

Jbay, Fling, guys chill- you are never going to convince the naysayers about SAA. These guys have a vested interest in seeing SAA go belly up- what they don’t realize is -that in the highly unlightly event of that ever happening- they will see none of the benefit. All that will happen is that the average crew member in this country will get more screwed as the owners (Unlce Vern, the terrible twosome, the Green tea in Bonaero Park) of the “successful” private airlines will by buy even older hunks of junk, fly them more and pay the crew less.

SIC

Too bad no airline in the world gives you all you want any more....

NTW/1Time etc dont offer the long term money/ big jets.
SAA offers that but political BS and affirmative abuse up the yingyang and uncertainty about the future of seniority etc.
Cathay offers all of the above mentioned positives - but you got to live with the pollution/millions of people and steak at R300/kg.
Emirates same except here its the heat and Dubai is so incredibly artificial that I certainly would think twice.

Then there is the issue of leaving or staying in SA - and a big one it is for us - purely because we have the CHOICE.

I am certainly concerned about whether SA will still be a place I would want to live in in 25 years when I retire- which influences a lot of the choices I make now.

So Jbay - its not nearly as simple as you - the defender of the apparent honour of SAA RT procedures - makes it out to be....and how's your RT ???

beechbum

Guys are we not moving off the topic here? This was initially started as a criticism of bad RT amongst the Mango guys and now has developed again into a slagging SAA match. Gents maybe start a thread of your own and you can have a really good go at comparing notes!!
In connection with RT tho' - it seems as if many have degenerated to talking like total morons on the frequencies within and around SA. We're supposed to be proffessionals not so? The only time we adjudge how proffessional one is, is when the trap door in ones head is opened. After all when I sit cruising to Cape Town, I don't know how good your SOP's are or how great your stick and rudder skills are.... so the only time I get the impression of some sort of proffesionalism is when you open your mouth!!! And that accounts for everyone across the board.not only our Mango colleagues!!!
Just my five cents worth.....by the way could you roast me medium rare if you don't agree. This roasting well done can be a little tough!!!!!!

Thats it over and out......roger roger!!!!!!.......ummm......ah...ahhh.......request ....ah......roger!!!!!

Q4NVS

Well said Beechbum..

whodunnit2

Yip, the steaks cost R300/kg here. That's why we import huge amounts of the stuff when the odd JNB trip comes around!

Come on guys be nice. We're all just trying to make a living out of this game.

Vasur

Ja, must admit, I’ve heard some dodgey ones from our new fruit friends.
ATC’s are handling them well though.

On the first day of operation, a Mango pilot, after vacating the runway says: “err……. ground,…..errr this is …….a……. ………a…………….Tulca 512 ………errr……..gooday”.

ATC replies: “Okay, lets get this correct from the start, Call sign, taxi way, registration and parking bay. ”

Did I say ATC’s handling something well?

CALCULATOR

Last night I believe a charter airline conducted a flight on behalf of Mango to Durban and back.On arrival in JHB about 40 pieces of luggage could not be found, and pax were mad as all hell.Pax were told bags were left in Durban and would arrive today!!!

Rumour has it from a reliable source when the rear hold of the DC 9 was opened this morning at the hangar guess what was inside??Yup 40 very lonely bags.
I think Equity does the handling for MANGO -this is really a poor show on MANGO AND EQUITY, somebody should have checked both holds?

imustbemad

The problem here is Equity. Anyone operating in and out of Oliver Catastrophy International will know that Equity have to be responsible for more delays to airlines than weather, check in and technical issues combined. They have a monopoly on service provision at the airport, and the airlines are powerless to do anything about it.
Having said that, its strange that the rear hold wasn't checked as this is normally the primary hold on the diesels for loading baggage and you would expect the ramp agent to check it, especially if he wasn't familier with the aircrafts cargo hold arrangements.
Teething problems will always occur with a new airline and you will probably find that the ground staff are still inexperienced.

Jangys

Equity Aviation Services handle all MANGO flights at all destinations. They were informed about the subsequent aircraft change.

Apparently, Equity did not have enough staff on duty to service the aircraft. Apron Control wanted the DC9 off the parking bay ASAP, thus the baggage accompanied the aircraft to the hangar.

The baggage was off-loaded this morning, and delivered to all the passengers by Equity Aviation Services.

Source: MANGO OPS

Jangys

Come on.....

Give the guys a break, good to hear some fimiliar SAA voices on MANGO RT though..

JetPark

Oh dear - seems like there really are a few teething problems? Heard an irate pax on the radio last night in fact - boy were tehy rude about oor old Mango !

QUOTE: News Release just out

South Africa
Mango slips up - again
2006-12-12 10:01
Johannesburg - SAA's no-frills airline, Mango, slipped down the passenger popularity rating on Sunday after flight JE169 from Johannesburg to Cape Town was delayed by three hours.
Jan Bosman of Bellville, a passenger on the flight, said it was supposed to leave at 17:00.
But at that stage there were many passengers waiting to book in, with only three counters open to serve hundreds of Mango flyers.
"Because of these poor arrangements the plane finally departed at 20:00, after losing its place in the queue to take off," he said.
Bosman said the passengers had to wait for two hours on the tarmac, without air conditioning on board their plane.
"The cabin was very humid and after two hours, one of the passengers with low blood-sugar began to hyperventilate.
"Just before take-off, the captain decided not to fly with this weak passenger and that meant we finally took off at 20:00, three hours late."
Bosman said that Mango had made no effort to communicate with the passengers, or keep them updated on the estimated time of departure.
"Nobody had a clue. The air-hostesses were eventually in tears because the people blamed them, but they also didn't know what was going down."
Mango Airline has been under fire twice since it began operating less than a month ago.
The first time was when a flight had to return to Cape Town with a broken window and the second time was when 139 passengers on flight JE 154 from Cape Town to Johannesburg were delayed for more than eight hours.

Beeld

TownshipDog

Friend of mine was delayed last week due to the cabin crew getting on the wrong aircraft.
"It's the big orange one guys, you can't miss it..."

putt for dough

Heard from a friend who works for them, that last week
the groundcrew teamleader who is responsible for making
sure the correct boarding gates are given to ACSA,gave the
wrong gates and the Durban pax boarded the CT aerie and
vice versa. (ACSA put the gates they were told on the monitors.)
So in the end all the passengers were on the wrong planes
and all pax from both planes had to get off their respective
aircraft to board the other aerie.

Lank confusion

FUG

I believe that their ORTIA manager has resigned after being hospitalised for stress. Seems that there are more than 1 or 2 things that need to resolved.