Mango - all you need to know about it (threads merged)
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Mango - all you need to know about it (threads merged)
SAA may launch low cost carrier
Dikatso Mametse
Posted: Wed, 26 Oct 2005
SA Airways will decide soon whether to launch a low-cost airline to take on rivals Kulula.com and 1time.
SAA CEO Khaya Ngqula told Moneyweb Radio on Monday that the airline was considering bringing in a budget model to regional destinations such as Windhoek and Harare. (Click here to read/listen to the interview)
Ngqula said SAA was talking to its board and shareholders, and said that it ‘makes sense to go that route’. He said plans were still secret at this stage.
Gidon Novick, Kulula.com’s executive director, said that they wouldn’t be threatened by such a move, but that it would be a big challenge for the taxpayer.
“The SA taxpayers are already subsidising two airlines - SAA and SAA Express. I don’t think they’ll subsidise a third airline,” he said.
Rodney James, marketing manager for the other low cost airline in South Africa, 1time, agrees.
“The airline is already using R6bn of taxpayers money. As a taxpayer, I would be subsidising an airline with which I compete against. I think that’s unfair.
“They basically don’t need to make a profit. This would kill low cost carrier competition – we would not be on a level playing field. The government needs to privatise SAA,” he said.
The airline business’s biggest challenge this year has been the rise of fuel prices.
In the past six months crude prices have gone up by almost 50% to over $60 a barrel, which makes it difficult for airlines to be viable.
But there have been some airlines that have made it work, Ngqula says.
“Some of them are not the low fare, like you find in South Africa, because some of them have got plans of twenty-five years and older. But South West in the US does well, Ryan Air is doing well, Easyjet, Virgin Blue in Australia are doing well. And these are no-frills. They have cut costs down to the bone. People are packed like sardines. But it works,
Ngqula said that in South Africa, about 20% of the public don’t seem to mind flying in rough conditions. The market share of the low-cost or low-fare carriers is growing significantly which shows that there is an existing market, which doesn’t care about the frills.
“There is also the new market which has never flown before, which travels on buses from Johannesburg to East London, Jo’burg to Cape Town, Jo’burg to Durban.
“And that new market is saying, yes, the low-cost carriers are competitive, and people are starting to use that. So you’ve got new entrants into the market, and you’ve got some people who are moving from the existing market joining the low-cost carriers. It is a big challenge. It’s something we are dealing with, very aggressively,” Ngqula said.
The company has a dual strategy to compete with low cost carriers.
“We have to maintain the successful SAA, which has an image as one of the biggest and best airlines in the world. For the long hauls, from Johannesburg to Lagos, Johannesburg even to Angola, to New York, you can’t use low-cost, because there’s the question of inconvenience.
“But we need to simplify prices in the regional sphere. Johannesburg-Harare, Johannesburg-Windhoek, or even to Botswana, there you can look at coming up with low-cost carriers which can compete fairly with everybody else. We have been speaking to our board and obviously to our shareholders, Transnet and the government – I think it’s no secret.
there
“The other option is to sit back and do nothing and hope for the best. And the best might never come. We will just disappear as an airline. So we’ve taken the high road. Look at the original structure, look at the low-cost carriers, improve and upgrade the product, better our service at the existing SAA…market better.”
Dikatso Mametse
Posted: Wed, 26 Oct 2005
SA Airways will decide soon whether to launch a low-cost airline to take on rivals Kulula.com and 1time.
SAA CEO Khaya Ngqula told Moneyweb Radio on Monday that the airline was considering bringing in a budget model to regional destinations such as Windhoek and Harare. (Click here to read/listen to the interview)
Ngqula said SAA was talking to its board and shareholders, and said that it ‘makes sense to go that route’. He said plans were still secret at this stage.
Gidon Novick, Kulula.com’s executive director, said that they wouldn’t be threatened by such a move, but that it would be a big challenge for the taxpayer.
“The SA taxpayers are already subsidising two airlines - SAA and SAA Express. I don’t think they’ll subsidise a third airline,” he said.
Rodney James, marketing manager for the other low cost airline in South Africa, 1time, agrees.
“The airline is already using R6bn of taxpayers money. As a taxpayer, I would be subsidising an airline with which I compete against. I think that’s unfair.
“They basically don’t need to make a profit. This would kill low cost carrier competition – we would not be on a level playing field. The government needs to privatise SAA,” he said.
The airline business’s biggest challenge this year has been the rise of fuel prices.
In the past six months crude prices have gone up by almost 50% to over $60 a barrel, which makes it difficult for airlines to be viable.
But there have been some airlines that have made it work, Ngqula says.
“Some of them are not the low fare, like you find in South Africa, because some of them have got plans of twenty-five years and older. But South West in the US does well, Ryan Air is doing well, Easyjet, Virgin Blue in Australia are doing well. And these are no-frills. They have cut costs down to the bone. People are packed like sardines. But it works,
Ngqula said that in South Africa, about 20% of the public don’t seem to mind flying in rough conditions. The market share of the low-cost or low-fare carriers is growing significantly which shows that there is an existing market, which doesn’t care about the frills.
“There is also the new market which has never flown before, which travels on buses from Johannesburg to East London, Jo’burg to Cape Town, Jo’burg to Durban.
“And that new market is saying, yes, the low-cost carriers are competitive, and people are starting to use that. So you’ve got new entrants into the market, and you’ve got some people who are moving from the existing market joining the low-cost carriers. It is a big challenge. It’s something we are dealing with, very aggressively,” Ngqula said.
The company has a dual strategy to compete with low cost carriers.
“We have to maintain the successful SAA, which has an image as one of the biggest and best airlines in the world. For the long hauls, from Johannesburg to Lagos, Johannesburg even to Angola, to New York, you can’t use low-cost, because there’s the question of inconvenience.
“But we need to simplify prices in the regional sphere. Johannesburg-Harare, Johannesburg-Windhoek, or even to Botswana, there you can look at coming up with low-cost carriers which can compete fairly with everybody else. We have been speaking to our board and obviously to our shareholders, Transnet and the government – I think it’s no secret.
there
“The other option is to sit back and do nothing and hope for the best. And the best might never come. We will just disappear as an airline. So we’ve taken the high road. Look at the original structure, look at the low-cost carriers, improve and upgrade the product, better our service at the existing SAA…market better.”
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Why launch a low cost carrier when they are already competing with the LCC`s?(Just check out there fares on competing routes).
SAA continues to take the tax payers money by rolling over billions of lost hedging finance, and now competing with the Kululas and 1 times of the world by offering similar fares which can NOT be making them money, given the oil price and the modern fleet etc.
How wonderful is must be for our millionaire CEO, Mr Ngqula to strategize at state expense without ever having to worry about the bottom line??
More fool the gullible public paying for SAA to lose billions and then still supporting them.
It beats me....time for some justice here.
SAA continues to take the tax payers money by rolling over billions of lost hedging finance, and now competing with the Kululas and 1 times of the world by offering similar fares which can NOT be making them money, given the oil price and the modern fleet etc.
How wonderful is must be for our millionaire CEO, Mr Ngqula to strategize at state expense without ever having to worry about the bottom line??
More fool the gullible public paying for SAA to lose billions and then still supporting them.
It beats me....time for some justice here.
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I thought for a moment that it could be April 1st but alas its not.
Let SAA stay state owned for all I care, however I think priavtely owned carriers should not pay any tax, that is VAT, Corporation tax on profits etc. Of course no one will seriously consider this for one moment but just consider the huge injustice of the present situation.....
Comair, Nationwide and 1-Time operate in a competitive environment and make a profit. They are then taxed on that profit, (a reward for hard work, good decision making, investor confidence) and that money goes to the government which as far as airlines goes can't manage a piss-up in a brewery!!!!
Why should a company's hard earned profit go to subside a state-owned corporate shambles? What annoys me more than anything else is the sheer arrogance of the people that run SAA. The sad thing is that most people (SA Taxpayer) are so ignorant of how flagrently abused their Rands by SAA no one is ever called to account.
Let SAA stay state owned for all I care, however I think priavtely owned carriers should not pay any tax, that is VAT, Corporation tax on profits etc. Of course no one will seriously consider this for one moment but just consider the huge injustice of the present situation.....
Comair, Nationwide and 1-Time operate in a competitive environment and make a profit. They are then taxed on that profit, (a reward for hard work, good decision making, investor confidence) and that money goes to the government which as far as airlines goes can't manage a piss-up in a brewery!!!!
Why should a company's hard earned profit go to subside a state-owned corporate shambles? What annoys me more than anything else is the sheer arrogance of the people that run SAA. The sad thing is that most people (SA Taxpayer) are so ignorant of how flagrently abused their Rands by SAA no one is ever called to account.
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I personally think that Khaya should stay away from such an endevour, but I can see why he thinks its a good Idea
It is very difficult for SAA to compete (price wise) with the other Airlines in SA, for example, one 737-800 has a price tag of around $40million (USD not R) and one DC9/737-200/MD82 has a price of around $1-2mill, you do the math.
yes SAA is tax payers money, but its also a taxpayers asset, its a modern airline flying the newest equipment out there with all the correct training devices, granted our management are shocking and they are a danger to themselves. Everyone complains about how the taxpayers money is being abused, and it makes my blood boil as well, but what would you like? SAA to dissapear? only have 20-30 year old aircraft flying the skys, with crew that are worked to the bone and payed peanuts while there bosses prosper and think of new ways to save money, ie there maintenance (its happened in other countries already) corner cutting in maintenance will only lead to an accident, its just a matter of time unfortunately.
Unfortunatley if Khaya goes this route, I doubt there will be much expansion in SAA, the low cost carrier will probably get the domestic routes (the rumour is that SAX will be the low cost carrier....flying 737-200's or DC9's) and this means no more intakes of pilots which is a pitty because I know there are many guys/girls out there who would love to fly for SAA. Khaya is no Richard Branson and it scares me that he has the arrogance to act the way he does
It is very difficult for SAA to compete (price wise) with the other Airlines in SA, for example, one 737-800 has a price tag of around $40million (USD not R) and one DC9/737-200/MD82 has a price of around $1-2mill, you do the math.
yes SAA is tax payers money, but its also a taxpayers asset, its a modern airline flying the newest equipment out there with all the correct training devices, granted our management are shocking and they are a danger to themselves. Everyone complains about how the taxpayers money is being abused, and it makes my blood boil as well, but what would you like? SAA to dissapear? only have 20-30 year old aircraft flying the skys, with crew that are worked to the bone and payed peanuts while there bosses prosper and think of new ways to save money, ie there maintenance (its happened in other countries already) corner cutting in maintenance will only lead to an accident, its just a matter of time unfortunately.
Unfortunatley if Khaya goes this route, I doubt there will be much expansion in SAA, the low cost carrier will probably get the domestic routes (the rumour is that SAX will be the low cost carrier....flying 737-200's or DC9's) and this means no more intakes of pilots which is a pitty because I know there are many guys/girls out there who would love to fly for SAA. Khaya is no Richard Branson and it scares me that he has the arrogance to act the way he does
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The rumour that SAX becoming the low cost carrier of SAA has been spoken about for a while now - and I suppose SAA will do just about anything to crush the competiton even atat tax payers expense!!!! Lets hope that sense prevails at higher levels and the big guns are left to to do the job they started out to do.....anyway only time will tell. 
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Fluffyfan.....just because the media loves " informing " the man in the street about the LCC's " alleged " poor maintenance standards, dont jump on the bandwagon. Remember, the same govt that looks after its " flag " (not bok) carrier, also likes to read about the other less financially advantaged carriers in the news....not true?? The beast with two backs....
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Not accusing all the low cost operators of maintenance shortcuts, however I do believe that when there are financial pressures companies can and do take shortcuts, just ask Alaskan airlines about the lack of grease on the jack screw of the MD82, and that was a first world country where some bright spark thought he could save a few bucks, ok the time issue was also a factor they needed that aircraft back in service asap, the same thing can easily happen here in africa.......just dont think its a good idea to save money on maintenance, and I know its happening with one outfit who does there own servicing at Lanseria, you know who.
I am sure a few guys will respond and say I am talking sh*t, but its common sense, saw it over and over in the contract world. Also know for a fact that DDM requirements which state you CAN NOT DEPART have been overlooked, witnessed it myself. Dont defend someone for the sake of defending them or because you want to shoot the messenger, at least critisise things that are wrong............did that make sense?
I am sure a few guys will respond and say I am talking sh*t, but its common sense, saw it over and over in the contract world. Also know for a fact that DDM requirements which state you CAN NOT DEPART have been overlooked, witnessed it myself. Dont defend someone for the sake of defending them or because you want to shoot the messenger, at least critisise things that are wrong............did that make sense?
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I have mentioned this before but even though the DC9/MD80's and B737-200 cost next to nothing to require they chow an awful lot of fuel. Now with the price of fuel going the way it has, at what point do the old aircraft become uneconomic?
Just out of interest does any one have some average figures as to what the various types of a/c might burn on average CT/JS sector? Be interesting to compare.
Just out of interest does any one have some average figures as to what the various types of a/c might burn on average CT/JS sector? Be interesting to compare.
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There is absolutely no future in SAA launching its own LLC arm- they have done the analysis and shown that its cheaper to use the existing fleet to compete with the LLC's. By definition these carriers have a very small cost base - hence their competitive fares- a slick paint job is not going to make SAA's cost base dissapear! the sad thing about SAA is that no one will be prepared to make the sacrifices nessesary to make the thing work- ie take pay cuts, agree to a change in working conditions etc etc- and Im not just taking about the chief and his millions but everyone- SAA pays very well across the board and generally speaking does not derive the reqired benefit in terms of productivity- Im speaking generally here, of course there are exceptions.
If you want to see SAA work- it has to start with the people, so why not close it down and restart it as a new public/private partnership ask everyone to reapply for their jobs and offer the successful ones performance based contracts- that are renewable if you perfrom to expectations. This worked in a slightly altered format at Air Lingus who have managed to bring themselves back form the brink.
The outlook is simplistic I know,but essentially SAA has all the fundamantal elements already in place to be a really sucessful airline- domestically and regionally/Internationaly, whats needed is the people side to come right and then things will start to happen.
If you want to see SAA work- it has to start with the people, so why not close it down and restart it as a new public/private partnership ask everyone to reapply for their jobs and offer the successful ones performance based contracts- that are renewable if you perfrom to expectations. This worked in a slightly altered format at Air Lingus who have managed to bring themselves back form the brink.
The outlook is simplistic I know,but essentially SAA has all the fundamantal elements already in place to be a really sucessful airline- domestically and regionally/Internationaly, whats needed is the people side to come right and then things will start to happen.
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Its not just a paint job, the rumour is that someone else will be the LCC ie SAX, they are smaller, lower paid etc and just need to get rid of there expensive RJ's and get old 737's or DC9's. Another rumor is that Khaya wants the 800's and A319's flying into africa on the high yield routes (apparently he wants to expand into africa) , not domestically competing against the LCC's
Deskjocky......I have heard it said before that SAA staff are overpaid but I disagree, the problem is that there are too many people employed in that building who do nothing, the jam stealers of this world, I dont have exact figures but a rough guess would be that one aircraft supports about 500 people at SAA and at the LCC one Aircraft supports about 10 people.
If you are refering to the pilots who are overpaid then I just shake my head in confusion, I have said this before,they are not overpaid, the others are underpaid. And in fact the SAA pilots union is doing a major study at this point in time to see how SAA pilots salaries compare with other airlines and with a similar position in Industry, its a complicated formula which involves disposable income etc, not just a figure. I suspect SAA pilot salaries will be way under the rest of the world average.
Solid rust, you are correct most of the aircraft are leased that is the new world norm with aircraft that cost this much, not many (except maybe the oil states) can afford to buy these aircraft outright, but my point is that at least these modern aircraft are here in SA giving the public the opportunity to choose the most modern safest aircraft ever designed over a 20-30 year old design, was looking at the saftey stats on the notice board the other day the JT8D-15/17 engine which is on the 737-200 has had a fair number of shutdowns in the world this past year (cant remember exact figures), the CFM56 which is on the 800 has already proved to have the highest dispatch reliability, in the world, its old technology versus new. Cant understand it myself, how a passenger will drive to the airport in a brand new Volvo with all the saftey features and then get onto a 30 year old jet and save himself a few rand.
That being said, I dont agree with what SAA have done by giving the George-JHB to SAX and also the coastal routes away, SAX cant handle the load so they hire contract aircraft which fly old DC9's and 737-200.............so after all my ranting and raving, if you buy a SAA ticket hoping to fly the latest greatest, you may just be shocked to find you are on a pre 1980 piece of sh
Deskjocky......I have heard it said before that SAA staff are overpaid but I disagree, the problem is that there are too many people employed in that building who do nothing, the jam stealers of this world, I dont have exact figures but a rough guess would be that one aircraft supports about 500 people at SAA and at the LCC one Aircraft supports about 10 people.
If you are refering to the pilots who are overpaid then I just shake my head in confusion, I have said this before,they are not overpaid, the others are underpaid. And in fact the SAA pilots union is doing a major study at this point in time to see how SAA pilots salaries compare with other airlines and with a similar position in Industry, its a complicated formula which involves disposable income etc, not just a figure. I suspect SAA pilot salaries will be way under the rest of the world average.
Solid rust, you are correct most of the aircraft are leased that is the new world norm with aircraft that cost this much, not many (except maybe the oil states) can afford to buy these aircraft outright, but my point is that at least these modern aircraft are here in SA giving the public the opportunity to choose the most modern safest aircraft ever designed over a 20-30 year old design, was looking at the saftey stats on the notice board the other day the JT8D-15/17 engine which is on the 737-200 has had a fair number of shutdowns in the world this past year (cant remember exact figures), the CFM56 which is on the 800 has already proved to have the highest dispatch reliability, in the world, its old technology versus new. Cant understand it myself, how a passenger will drive to the airport in a brand new Volvo with all the saftey features and then get onto a 30 year old jet and save himself a few rand.
That being said, I dont agree with what SAA have done by giving the George-JHB to SAX and also the coastal routes away, SAX cant handle the load so they hire contract aircraft which fly old DC9's and 737-200.............so after all my ranting and raving, if you buy a SAA ticket hoping to fly the latest greatest, you may just be shocked to find you are on a pre 1980 piece of sh
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dear fluffy fan
its seems to me that your a SAA fan and good for you.
but if SAA funds a Low cost airline it will only do it to get rid of the comp.
They can do this cause the tax payers will pay for it.
As for the so called 30 year old airplane , come on you just got lucky to fly the new 737-800. or the scare bus. that the hard working South African is paying for.
I feel that every tax paying South Africa should fly SAA for free . they own the airline dont they.
The pilots in SAA want to make the same as a pilot with BA or lufthansa. Thats a joke. You cant compare the cost of living in SA to Europe.
And the rest airline in SA are very under paid. your correct there.
its seems to me that your a SAA fan and good for you.
but if SAA funds a Low cost airline it will only do it to get rid of the comp.
They can do this cause the tax payers will pay for it.
As for the so called 30 year old airplane , come on you just got lucky to fly the new 737-800. or the scare bus. that the hard working South African is paying for.
I feel that every tax paying South Africa should fly SAA for free . they own the airline dont they.
The pilots in SAA want to make the same as a pilot with BA or lufthansa. Thats a joke. You cant compare the cost of living in SA to Europe.
And the rest airline in SA are very under paid. your correct there.
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I agree fully Jock, even though SAA would not neccesarily be making a killing by introducing a LCC. What they would however do, is to put the competition (of SAA) out of business, and I suspect that is the motivation behind a move of this kind. Face the facts, Im sure no-one can even attempt to hide the facts that 1-Time, and Kulula hurt SAA on the domestic front, because in my opinion every single domestic passenger that boards these LCC's, is an EX/POTENTIAL saa passenger. Only differrence is that SAA can afford to lose of bit more of the taxpayers money, in an effort to bury the competition. History repeats itsself....
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Reminds me of a story of a lady that once went into the boardroom, after being invited to the cockpit after TOC was reached.
Her masterplan entailed wonderful cost savings on the HR side.."... two crew is not necessary, ....they just idle around anyway."
Throw peanuts into the cocpit and cabin - will keep them all occupied and prevent the pax from damaging the seats! Who said you have to feed them anyway!
Out comes the "smiley"(halved sheepshead), "Mamelodi Katkop"(halfloaf, chips and atchar) and the Woolies Salad........
If only it was so easy to attract competent BEE directors...ones not so expensive as a Coleman (nice neighbours he now has) or the price of a villa (and it's upkeep) in the south of France.....most successfull LCC & FSC CEO's has some knowledge of Operations!
I say the next problem with the current state of crime, violence etc.will be an EXODUS. Excellerated command of non-reflectives will also be a bit unfair then. All the years of experience of the people in how to compete with the privates, LCC and other Phoenix, Shooting Star operations would be lost, after it cost the taxpayers soo much, then to be left without any assets, Haouw!
Now that, is what I call a very expensive Bokkie, wouldn't you say old Spotty?! (Hey I need some following here, your research skills far outweigh my time available....
hey, better go, my bouillion de légumes is Beecomming a Sous'a in da keetchen!)
The Mystic 1
Her masterplan entailed wonderful cost savings on the HR side.."... two crew is not necessary, ....they just idle around anyway."
Throw peanuts into the cocpit and cabin - will keep them all occupied and prevent the pax from damaging the seats! Who said you have to feed them anyway!
Out comes the "smiley"(halved sheepshead), "Mamelodi Katkop"(halfloaf, chips and atchar) and the Woolies Salad........
If only it was so easy to attract competent BEE directors...ones not so expensive as a Coleman (nice neighbours he now has) or the price of a villa (and it's upkeep) in the south of France.....most successfull LCC & FSC CEO's has some knowledge of Operations!
I say the next problem with the current state of crime, violence etc.will be an EXODUS. Excellerated command of non-reflectives will also be a bit unfair then. All the years of experience of the people in how to compete with the privates, LCC and other Phoenix, Shooting Star operations would be lost, after it cost the taxpayers soo much, then to be left without any assets, Haouw!
Now that, is what I call a very expensive Bokkie, wouldn't you say old Spotty?! (Hey I need some following here, your research skills far outweigh my time available....
hey, better go, my bouillion de légumes is Beecomming a Sous'a in da keetchen!)The Mystic 1
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fluffyfan...wasnt really talking about flight ops, my comments were aimed more at the "gravey trainers" I agree that the rest of the industry- especially pilots- should be earning more. Just have a look at how many staff SAA needs to employ at the airports to get the job done- same in most other departments, productivity is dead and buried!!
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Productivity?
Don't be silly.
Why should you get off your huge sadza fuelled posterior when you have a job for life with a taxpayer funded parastatal?
Plus ca change, mes amis....
It appears the ****'s the same, only the flies have changed.
Don't be silly.
Why should you get off your huge sadza fuelled posterior when you have a job for life with a taxpayer funded parastatal? Plus ca change, mes amis....
It appears the ****'s the same, only the flies have changed.
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Eish!
Yip, too many wêna's not bringing their side! This gravy thing!
It's just like the government, making peace in Africa, running this whole PAP thing almost from the comfort of his BBJ (it is Business afterall), long before the mielies is off the land.
Spoories first needs to prove that they could operate solo - but for that, we don't need Nostradamus either. Now already talks about a LCC, jonawê, I can't believe.
Meknows this is heading towards the extinction of a fine specimen - the Bokkie (symbol of old regime thing).
Maybe they could get in another great - World Airways, hey even US Airways for example- type of guy, with experience in filing (chapters of course), who could help Spoories.....Striking that in Africa, so many fine examples of have emerged with years of experience in most fields of industry, if they were overseas, great art of concealing their past achievements.
Soo many SA people abroad, yield should look excellent even if you double the fequencies and half the price over the major holiday period! More to enrich the handlers and cabin staff, who's reputation for vanishing acts excels, seeing that the ammendments are in place. Quick, anyone has Vernon or PARC's number?
PAP Airways! Viva!
It's just like the government, making peace in Africa, running this whole PAP thing almost from the comfort of his BBJ (it is Business afterall), long before the mielies is off the land.
Spoories first needs to prove that they could operate solo - but for that, we don't need Nostradamus either. Now already talks about a LCC, jonawê, I can't believe.
Meknows this is heading towards the extinction of a fine specimen - the Bokkie (symbol of old regime thing).
Maybe they could get in another great - World Airways, hey even US Airways for example- type of guy, with experience in filing (chapters of course), who could help Spoories.....Striking that in Africa, so many fine examples of have emerged with years of experience in most fields of industry, if they were overseas, great art of concealing their past achievements.
Soo many SA people abroad, yield should look excellent even if you double the fequencies and half the price over the major holiday period! More to enrich the handlers and cabin staff, who's reputation for vanishing acts excels, seeing that the ammendments are in place. Quick, anyone has Vernon or PARC's number?
PAP Airways! Viva!
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Dear four engine jock
True Story...thats why I said I am against such an Idea, plus you dont give the LCC management enough credit, current SAA management could not organise a piss up in a brewery never mind start a LCC that would be effective against the current operators.........they will probably make it a BEE enterprise and all the crap that goes with that rather than just listening to the customer like the others have done.
Another true story, I did get lucky
Ok well I will go for that, but also would like free electricity, water, medical, education, fuel, telephone calls, road travel...ie no more tolls etc I am sure there must be many more, because we are all tax payers and we own these services too dont we??
A common misconception, and I did try to explain in my last post that its not that simple, its a huge formula that takes a whole bunch of things into account, most importantly disposable income, ie after all costs of living.....and I think it would be safe to say that SAA is behind the rest of the world.
but if SAA funds a Low cost airline it will only do it to get rid of the comp.
As for the so called 30 year old airplane , come on you just got lucky to fly the new 737-800. or the scare bus. that the hard working South African is paying for.
I feel that every tax paying South Africa should fly SAA for free . they own the airline dont they.
The pilots in SAA want to make the same as a pilot with BA or lufthansa. Thats a joke. You cant compare the cost of living in SA to Europe.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Brazil
Age: 61
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Couple of points for fluffy
738’s are more expensive than 732’s – but SAA are Leasing them – not buying – so using “purchase price” isn’t an accurate picture.
Where’s the Asset ? – almost everything is Leased in – it’s an asset for the lease company but a liability for the airline.
I’ve seem SAT’s maintenance and the guys are GOOD – but they are still pressured to get it out the door – just like the guys at Lanseria .
(actually maybe not as much – in some cases they need a bit more of a push)
SAA doesn’t lease it’s equipment because “it’s the new world norm” – they lease them cause a CEO was tasked with making as much profit as he could in a limited time – selling all the assets and leasing their replacements made this EASY.
It looks argumentative – but is meant as clarification.
If the plan isn’t to use the SAA LCC to kill the other LCC’s and revert to high cost – the SAA management need a few more psychiatrists on staff – It should be the plan cause that would be good business.
It’s also why it shouldn’t be allowed.
I’ll be fascinated by the result of the pilot salary survey – I am definitely of the impression compared with average SA earning they are well above and they seem to have more “disposable” than equivalents abroad – until you get to senior Captains etc who seem to get a salary I’d like no matter which flag carrier you look at.
If anyone is underpaid – look on the hangar floor.
SA NEEDS SAA – the only African nation with a reasonably respected Flag Carrier (although Kenya is getting there) what it doesn’t need is a state owned LCC.
738’s are more expensive than 732’s – but SAA are Leasing them – not buying – so using “purchase price” isn’t an accurate picture.
Where’s the Asset ? – almost everything is Leased in – it’s an asset for the lease company but a liability for the airline.
I’ve seem SAT’s maintenance and the guys are GOOD – but they are still pressured to get it out the door – just like the guys at Lanseria .
(actually maybe not as much – in some cases they need a bit more of a push)
SAA doesn’t lease it’s equipment because “it’s the new world norm” – they lease them cause a CEO was tasked with making as much profit as he could in a limited time – selling all the assets and leasing their replacements made this EASY.
It looks argumentative – but is meant as clarification.
If the plan isn’t to use the SAA LCC to kill the other LCC’s and revert to high cost – the SAA management need a few more psychiatrists on staff – It should be the plan cause that would be good business.
It’s also why it shouldn’t be allowed.
I’ll be fascinated by the result of the pilot salary survey – I am definitely of the impression compared with average SA earning they are well above and they seem to have more “disposable” than equivalents abroad – until you get to senior Captains etc who seem to get a salary I’d like no matter which flag carrier you look at.
If anyone is underpaid – look on the hangar floor.
SA NEEDS SAA – the only African nation with a reasonably respected Flag Carrier (although Kenya is getting there) what it doesn’t need is a state owned LCC.