JAL incident at Haneda Airport
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Jspan crash
The coastguard Dash 8 was told to hold at the stop bar "C5" and confirmed that command. The stop bar lighting for all the stops on taxiway "C" were NOT WORKING. There was a notice to pilots issued. Perhaps the coastguard pilot had not read that notice and seeing that the stop lights were "off" interpreted that to be that he was cleared to proceed to the runway. He should also have waited for a verbal clearance but perhaps in his haste to deliver the needed supplies to the earthquake area he just assumed he had missed hearing the verbal clearance. I wonder whether he had also been flying numerous hours because of the earthquake and was also tired.
This wasn't a collision between two civil aircraft. We ought not to forget that the DHC8 was a quasi-military aircraft, differently equipped to most of the civil aircraft using Haneda. The organisational culture and SOPs are probably somewhat different, too, with possible areas of friction with normal Haneda civilian procedures.
If the Capt was based there or even had recently flown a lot from there I've found that some ATCOs soon recognize people (or maybe it was just my rubbish flying which got me noticed!!!
). I soon found a level of rapport built up and, often my base ATCOs would not bend the rules, but use me to "help out" with their cunning plans as they had figured out what I could/couldn't be relied upon to do - including saying "no" if I was not happy I could comply.Maybe 722A's Capt thought "Gee, the guy is helping me out slotting me in ahead of JAL166 so I better make sure I don't mess it up for him!" but, and for reasons outlined at my recent Post #584 above, he (the 722A Capt) was unaware of JAL516 with a landing clearance already acknowledged. This would be even more likely if ATC had previously "helped him out" on other occasions during their relief flights. For some reason the fact they had not been cleared past C5 seems to have been forgotten by 722A in the heat of the moment.
Shows how easy it is for things to go pear-shaped.......
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Misty.
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Something like a Abrams M1 Tank running over a Tesla ;-)
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Was JA722A already holding at C5 when calling tower?
Wondering what the Charlie means in the inital call of JA722A to tower 17:45:11 "TOWER JA722A C"
Is he with information C? Or is he already holding at C(5), wrongly interpreting the taxi instruction that follows as an instruction to line up? The other civlian pilots seem to call tower during their taxi towards the holding points, and they are saying so in their initial calls.
Is he with information C? Or is he already holding at C(5), wrongly interpreting the taxi instruction that follows as an instruction to line up? The other civlian pilots seem to call tower during their taxi towards the holding points, and they are saying so in their initial calls.
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Wondering what the Charlie means in the inital call of JA722A to tower 17:45:11 "TOWER JA722A C"
Is he with information C? Or is he already holding at C(5), wrongly interpreting the taxi instruction that follows as an instruction to line up? The other civlian pilots seem to call tower during their taxi towards the holding points, and they are saying so in their initial calls.
Is he with information C? Or is he already holding at C(5), wrongly interpreting the taxi instruction that follows as an instruction to line up? The other civlian pilots seem to call tower during their taxi towards the holding points, and they are saying so in their initial calls.
The active information was Papa/Quebec, so definitely not a reference to ATIS (which should have been given to GND not TWR at any rate).
Last edited by Jasonbay; 4th Jan 2024 at 22:42.
Well, as the aircraft did just touch down with the main gear, speed would still be above 140knots and spoilers were not yet deployed, neither the reverse thrust. I am not aware of the landing speed of a A350-900 but it will not be 120 Knots for sure.
Something like a Abrams M1 Tank running over a Tesla ;-)
Something like a Abrams M1 Tank running over a Tesla ;-)
A few centimeters. However, I just saw that the GNSS antennas on the A350 are just aft of the cockpit, not near the CG (MLG) - so some further calculation needed to find out where the MLG might have touched down.
I am always hesitating to blame individuals in public. I will try to apply this in this case as well, especially considering face loss issues in Asian cultures. And I invite everyone to be extra reserved in this matter.
And we are not able to get first hand "evidence" from the police interrogation at the moment. Here we need to wait for docket documentation.
Now that the CPT repeated his plan was to have taken off, this rules out to be unaware of having entered a runway. Means they (or at least him) willingly entered.
Brings up more the cheese slices, what happened with respect to checking clearness of rwy and approach sector. And what was transponder mode, and strobe lights.
Also the status of their landing lights when thinking to be CLEARED for TO, which could have helped for tower crew to detect a a/c on that runway a small bit.
Regarding as to why he or his crew believed to be cleared for takeoff, these circumstances are totally outside of our knowledge at this time, so I totally refrain from judging.
Assuming 20m from GNSS antennas to MLG location, and a WCA of 1 degree left, the MLG would have been 1.9m right of centerline.
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Good protection of the flight deck, though.
right, Vref is irrelevant when impacting a ground object.GS is relevant. also during flare and touchdown you continue loosing speed. and the impact cost another few knots.
Wondering what the Charlie means in the inital call of JA722A to tower 17:45:11 "TOWER JA722A C"
Is he with information C? Or is he already holding at C(5), wrongly interpreting the taxi instruction that follows as an instruction to line up? The other civlian pilots seem to call tower during their taxi towards the holding points, and they are saying so in their initial calls.
Is he with information C? Or is he already holding at C(5), wrongly interpreting the taxi instruction that follows as an instruction to line up? The other civlian pilots seem to call tower during their taxi towards the holding points, and they are saying so in their initial calls.
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Wondering what the Charlie means in the inital call of JA722A to tower 17:45:11 "TOWER JA722A C"
Is he with information C? Or is he already holding at C(5), wrongly interpreting the taxi instruction that follows as an instruction to line up? The other civlian pilots seem to call tower during their taxi towards the holding points, and they are saying so in their initial calls.
Is he with information C? Or is he already holding at C(5), wrongly interpreting the taxi instruction that follows as an instruction to line up? The other civlian pilots seem to call tower during their taxi towards the holding points, and they are saying so in their initial calls.