MANCHESTER - 9

[Navpi]

Interesting piece on another forum that the owners of Manchester in the 90s argued against expansion of Stansted as this would stop new airlines serving Manchester.

How times have changed with MAG now bidding for Stansted...how odd ?

[Suzeman]

Interesting piece on another forum that the owners of Manchester in the 90s argued against expansion of Stansted as this would stop new airlines serving Manchester.

How times have changed with MAG now bidding for Stansted...how odd ?

As you say times have changed. In those days the low cost revolution was yet to happen, the BAA had a monopoly of all the London airports and many bilaterals with other countries said London - not Manchester or other regional airports. All this has now changed.

STN was being touted as the airport that would solve all London's capacity problems. MA feared that all intercontinental route expansion into the UK would be funneled in there if and when LHR and LGW got full.

BAA neglected STN eventually to concentrate on the cash cow that is LHR when they recognised the strength of opposition against any further expansion. (You could argue that the same applies to LGW having seen the way the new owners have re-vitalised it and attracted new airlines.)

Meanwhile Manchester Airport has morphed first into MAG operating a number of airports and has now evolved into M.A.G Airport Management and Services with the approval of the shareholding local councils.

Whether this means the Management Team will take the eye off the ball at MAN if they acquire STN remains to be seen. It certainly seemed to happen when EMA and BOH were acquired but the management team now are virtually all different.

Suzeman

[nigel osborne]

Suzeman,all,

STN was propped up by BAA, no doubt from profits made at full fare airport LHR.

With that sort of money now going to dry up, I wonder what MAN sees in owning a mostly low cost airport. Business reports suggest it might cost the new owners over £1 billion to buy.:eek:

Low cost airports don't make much money, repeated attempts by full fare airlines to succeed at STN have mostly failed ,as business travellers just don't want to commute their it seems.:{

Will the cargo revenue at STN deliver enough cash to make MAN venture worth while ? :confused:

Nigel

[j636]

brussels airlines W12 Manchester Operation Changes | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/08/27/sn-man-w12/?utm_source=twitter%2C%2Bweibo&utm_medium=Social%2BMedia&utm_campaign=tweet120827)

Larger aircraft on one of the daily flights.

[Suzeman]

Larger aircraft on one of the daily flights.

No doubt a response to FlyBe pulling off the route next month.

[chaps2011]

Easyjet on the increase 7 aircraft from March 2013 with promise of more
EasyJet to create 120 jobs as it steps up its presence at Manchester Airport | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/s/1587293_easyjet-to-create-120-jobs-as-it-steps-up-its-presence-at-manchester-airport)


Ian

[Keyvon]

Ryanair has announced a new route linking Manchester to Gdansk, twice weekly from Nov. 1st.

[MKY661]

Heard they are starting Riga as well.

[pug]

Preempting the rumoured Wizz announcement?

[j636]

Riga is on sale also but the 4 weekly Paris BVA + W from BVA have being dropped.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

manairporspotter -

For info, if you click on the drop-down list of forums, the one immediately below this one [AA&R] is called "Spectators Balcony". In there, enthusiasts are encouraged to discuss all aspects of aircraft spotting and it is the forum which other likeminded readers visit to search out such information. Here in the AA&R forum, discussion is generally steered towards the operational issues affecting the specific airport or airline under discussion. Spotting topics will upset some regulars on AA&R and risk eventually arousing the anger of the mods. I'm not having a go at you - this is friendly advice. Take a look at "spectators Balcony" ... I'm sure your contributions will be appreciated there.

Regards, SHED.

NOTE: This was a response to a posting which has subsequently been removed.

[chinapattern]

Does anyone know how MAN-IAD is doing? I remember reading before the route started that ticket sales were poor, then I read they had exceeded expectations and it was being upgraded and then I read it was being cut to x5 weekly during the winter. I was just curious as to how the route was faring.

[OltonPete]

Some more changes

American Airlines Jan/Feb 2013 Trans-Atlantic Routine Service Reductions | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/08/29/aa-europe-w12/)

Slight reduction for MAN-ORD in the New Year

US Airways W12 Trans-Atlantic Operation Changes as of 29AUG12 | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/08/29/us-w12update2/)

A few less seats on the US Air MAN-PHL

Ryanair Manchester - Dublin on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday in winter reduced to double daily in line with other UK - Dublin routes. Friday-Sunday 3 or 4 daily.

Washington

Bums on seats are not too bad - June 9197 pax & July 8537 per CAA. Yields, no idea.

Pete

[Mr A Tis]

The previously announced chop for MAN-MAD with Ryanair seems to be reversed.
Now appears bookable 4 x weekly until end of March 2013.

Assume the IB & EZY MADs remain cut.

[chaps2011]

Pete/Chinapattern
Re Washington just short of 150 per flight is pretty good, I am told fares have been quite high so presume doing OK

Ian

[cornishsimon]

Anyone know how the BE MAN-NQY route is doing ?

It would be nice to see this service get back to daily, 4 weekly isn't great considering it previously was multiple rotations daily under SZ.


cs

[Ringwayman]

Guessing easyJet's 8th based aircraft is on the cards - EDI's getting 2 more aircraft but creating fewer jobs than what easyJet said about the MAN expansion so they are probably just delaying news on this extra one!?

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Apologies for cross posting, but saw this comment on another forum regarding EasyJet:

An interesting conversation over a ridiculously expensive Costa coffee this morning in Terminal 3 gave me a list of possible routes Easy have pinned for MAN in the near future.

Arrecife (ACE)
Faro (FAO)
Fuerteventura (FUE)
Hurgharda (HRG)
Ibiza (IBZ) summer only
Larnaca (LCA)
Mykonos (JMK) summer only
Nice (NCE)
Reykyavik (KEF)
Venice (VCE)

[Mr A Tis]

That list would seem to contradict Ms McCalls wish to attract more business pax. By & large it is leisure destination list.

For more business pax I'd of thought LGW, ABZ, VIE, ZRH, SVO & upped freq on AMS, SXF would / should be on the list.

[MKY661]

Heard on this thread a couple of months ago that Zurich may be coming back.

Also read on the Edinburgh thread about te EasyJet expansion there too and I saw somebody posting about a MAN-EDI route.

[MKY661]

Have just noticed on the MAN airport webiste that there is an Orbest due in from Ibiza early this morning. Does anyone know if this is a new route or just an AD-HOC charter?

[TSR2]

Do you mean Iberworld (IWB) due at 02.05 Sunday morning ?

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Orbest is officially the new name for Iberworld.

[TSR2]

Thanks for that.

[Zippy Monster]

Re. Zurich with easyJet - here (http://www.20min.ch/ro/economie/news/story/26682379?fb_action_ids=10152055449820191&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=246965925417366) is an article from the Swiss newspaper "20 minutes", where Mrs McCall is openly critical of the high charges at Zurich. (In French I'm afraid.)

[MKY661]

There is a new thread to post all of your videos here:
http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcony-spotters-corner/493259-manchester-airport-spotting.html#post7365474

[jabird]

For more business pax I'd of thought LGW, ABZ, VIE, ZRH, SVO & upped freq on AMS, SXF would / should be on the list.

An interesting list.

Would there be enough volume to poach pax from BE's ABZ, given smaller aircraft? For leisure, would INV make more sense?

What is the rationale behind the 4 hour by land rule? Is this because U2 believe that such journeys are more sustainable by rail, or is it simply not worth competing on a convenience basis on these shorter sectors? I note FR have retreated from all overland routes in the British Isles, I presume because they weren't generating enough Hertz revenue and were annoyed at the APD double take?

I presume that by Mar 13, SXF will become BER, but would yields be good enough?

VIE from anywhere outside the M25 basin would be excellent news, long overdue - and SVO even more interesting!

[MAN777]

LA106 just arrived at MAN, same flight number as before troubles, so presume service has resumed ??

[750XL]

Yes service has returned but using Nouvleair aircraft

[AP1995]

Jet2 have announced Paris x5 weekly Manchester to Paris with Jet2.com and Jet2holidays | Jet2.com (http://www.jet2.com/News/Manchester_to_Paris_with_Jet2_com_and_Jet2holidays/)

[Ringwayman]

That's an extra weekly flight compared to this year.

[OltonPete]

Manchester Airport : Traffic Statistics (http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/All+Content/TrafficStatisticsArchive)

Click on August

With transits 2,223,257 +1.68% rolling year 19,555,938 +4.61%

Domestic up over 4% and International schedule as well (over 10%) but the final figure dragged down by IT.

Movements were also slightly down.

Domestic pax are very good, no doubt helped by the flybe mini-hub.

Last post on this thread 4th September - :hmm:

Pete

[roverman]

That's a solid enough result given the circumstances. The heady double-digit growth seen in the Spring was never going to be sustained and it's a long haul back to 20 million but still achievable in this financial year. A winter beckons without headline grabbing new routes, but consolidation is not a mere consolation in these times. I expect that the August figures nationally, to be released by the CAA in a few days, will show Manchester's position is an enviable one. The attrition from charter to scheduled is still marked, this never seems to quite hit the bottom, surely it can't be much longer before we see that.

Cargo figures still needing to be viewed through the fingers, though.

[Suzeman]

Looks like this is all caught up in red tape!

And I wonder who will pay? New machines and 55 extra staff!

Manchester Airport chiefs forced to ditch (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1588901_manchester-airport-chiefs-forced-to-ditch-naked-scanners-in-red-tape-row)

[Skipness One Echo]

The article is bollocks. The body scanners are here to stay, indeed EDI just got one. Had a chat with a nice BAA security fellow at GLA recently, he showed me the stick figure they see, nothing more.
The specific issue at MAN is the type of waves used. It's not been cleared as there remain safety concerns about this specific type, whereas the ones being rolled out at other UK airports do not have this concern.

What MAN need to do, given all their US flights is fund a like for like replacement. Ouch, that's a hit!

[wayne35]

think servisair maybe doing easyjet come spring but it could be bullocks rummors again at ringway

[Suzeman]

It is not often I defend the MEN who do have a lot of articles full of bollocks but Skippy said

The article is bollocks. The body scanners are here to stay, indeed EDI just got one.

Whilst the article says

The scanners will be replaced with new ‘privacy-friendly’ machines, which use radio-frequency technology instead of x-ray radiation. Five will be introduced on an initial three-month trial from October 1. Bosses are hopeful that the trial will be a success so they can invest in eight more machines – at a further cost of £800,000.

So to my tiny mind that means that there will be scanners - just different ones and from the description further down the article, probably the same type as those at GLA. I can't see anywhere where the article suggests body scanners in general will be withdrawn.

Suzeman

[Skipness One Echo]

I can't see anywhere where the article suggests body scanners in general will be withdrawn.

Manchester Airport chiefs forced to ditch ‘naked’ scanners in red tape row

As ever, the headline is misleading.

[fjencl]

Individual.com (http://www.individual.com/storyrss.php?story=163491900&hash=25e40173acbc939d6b083705aff080ff)

[Mr A Tis]

Probably the only new route ex MAN this winter

MTWTFSX 0700 MAN-ANTWERP 0920 / 0950 - MAN 1010
MTWTFXS 1650 MAN-ANTWERP 1910 / 1950 - MAN 2000

ERJ35 12 flights a week.
Seems rather late to announce a new route with less than 6 weeks notice & no publicity.
Looks like the Lyon service remains unchanged too

[chinapattern]

Does MAN have a masterplan for Terminal 1? I've just traveled through it for the first time in about 8 years and I have to say it's really showing it's age. The piers, customs area and baggage claim looked tired and dated. Even the departure lounge seemed cramped and poorly laid out. I don't want to get into a debate about which airport is best but when you look at what BHX has done over the past few years MAN T1 (can't speak for T2 or T3) really is lagging behind.

[BHX2FRA]

Probably the only new route ex MAN this winter

MTWTFSX 0700 MAN-ANTWERP 0920 / 0950 - MAN 1010
MTWTFXS 1650 MAN-ANTWERP 1910 / 1950 - MAN 2000

Seems rather late to announce a new route with less than 6 weeks notice & no publicity.

A new route for BMIr but not a new route for Manchester. Cityjet operated this service until last Sunday.

[BHX5DME]

BHX's T1 is now very smart, the international pier is world class but T2 is really showing its age and needs to be refurbished soon or knocked down !

[JackRalston]

MUC route started today. ZB1324 had 155 passengers booked(A321 config 214). I remember when MXP/VRN/VCE routes started, some days the MXP had 30 passengers on it, but now as the summer ends and autumn begins, these routes are performing well.

[MKY661]

The route has only just started and i think there wasn't as much notice compared to Venice, Verona, Dubrovnik and Milan. Im sure it will fill up especially this winter.

[Serenity]

Perfect for skiing in Austria!!

[MKY661]

Perfect for skiing in Austria!!They are also starting Grenoble, Innsbruck and Friedrichshafen in October/November

[MAN777]

TAP Portugal Increases Service to UK | Travel News (http://www.travel-news.co.uk/6177/2012/09/tap-portugal-increases-service-to-uk/)

[JackRalston]

Word on the grapevine that DL64/65 is to be upgraded to an A332 next year :ok:

[Seljuk22]

MUC route started today. ZB1324 had 155 passengers booked(A321 config 214).

Oktoberfest started today. Flights should do very well next two weeks ;)

[FLYAIR10]

Quote:
Probably the only new route ex MAN this winter

MTWTFSX 0700 MAN-ANTWERP 0920 / 0950 - MAN 1010
MTWTFXS 1650 MAN-ANTWERP 1910 / 1950 - MAN 2000

Seems rather late to announce a new route with less than 6 weeks notice & no publicity.
A new route for BMIr but not a new route for Manchester. Cityjet operated this service until last Sunday.

Indeed. There is definitely a demand for the Antwerp-Manchester roure &v.v.. BMIr is filling a gap.

[Skipness One Echo]

They need to charge fares high enough to have the aircraft not flying for most of the day though, I suspect these ERJs will be paid off by now though.

[FLYAIR10]

MTWTFSX 0700 MAN-ANTWERP 0920 / 0950 - MAN 1010
MTWTFXS 1650 MAN-ANTWERP 1910 / 1950 - MAN 2000



They need to charge fares high enough to have the aircraft not flying for most of the day though, I suspect these ERJs will be paid off by now though.

Maybe BMI could make more optimal use of their ERJ's by considering to add further destinations through Antwerp. e.g.
MAN-ANR-INNSBRUCK-ANR-MAN on saturdays/sundays in winter and
MAN-ANR-NICE-ANR-MAN on saturdays & sundays in Summer. :)

Grtz

[Ioniser]

Airport is in fact extending contracts of the summer part time staff to cope with the re introduction of frisking until such time as the new scanners have been rolled out across all three terminals and transfer points.

Security staff are not thrilled, to say the least, at having to go back to the old method !

[spottilludrop]

Nor are the paxs i guess, being groped by those characters is a horrible start to any ones trip

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Stansted’s biggest customer, Ryanair, would be happy to see it taken over by the Manchester Airports Group (MAG), reports the Manchester Evening News.


Ryanair and MAG (http://www.e-tid.com/ryanair-and-mag-a-very-good-marriage/49722/)

[Falcon666]

Not sure that's exactly what MAG want to hear.
On one side yes it brings back passenger figures but do MAG seriously think they will be able to entice other airlines to STN with a Ryanair monopoly there.
Gonna be interesting!

[JackRalston]

Flew down to SOU on Tuesday (BE864), turned up to T3 2hrs before flight, already checked in online and not a queue in sight, infact only about 2 people at a flybe desk in front of me. Queued about 5 minutes at security though because they only had a fastlane + 1 other lane open. Apart from that everything a'ok. Flight back on Thurs (BE865), landed at 1250, off the plane on stand 43 at about 1255, straight into UK arrivals and my bag was first off the belt and walla, out of the terminal at 1305. :ok:

Don't you just wish everyday was like that :)

[MKY661]

Looks like Monarch are dropping MXP from 4 November. Flights from BHX and LGW also stopping as well.

[blue_ashy]

Does anyone have any expected completion and implementation dates for the new tower? It looks massive! You can see it miles away coming on the M56 eastbound.

[JackRalston]

Article on a website says they are pulling operations out of MAN on 26th October, really? :eek:

PIA to ground Manchester, Amsterdam ops from 26th | The Nation (http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/national/29-Sep-2012/pia-to-ground-manchester-amsterdam-ops-from-26th)

[roverman]

Hmmm. What about Birmingham - where Turkish also have a presence - and particularly Leeds/Bradford? The article states which destinations remain without any mention of the above two being in nor out. Some network rationalisation would be understandable but I doubt Manchester would top the list to be dropped when there are others with lower frequency. PIA still operates as a public service for expats as much as it does a business, hence the service to LBA which is only an hour or so driving time to Manchester. We'll see.

[TURIN]

Air Blue taking over?

[Suzeman]

Looks like the Nation is trying to stir the pot up......:ooh:

PIA not closing any route: Spokesman
KARACHI, Sept 29 (APP): Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) is operating all its European and UK stations including Frankfurt, Amsterdam and Manchester. A PIA spokesman said here on Saturday that none of the present routes including Frankfurt and Amsterdam has closed down. While, Manchester is an important station of PIA and there is no possibility of closing down operations at this station. All PIA flights to USA on their journey towards New York have to make a stopover at Manchester so there is no question of closing down of Manchester. Besides, when PIA is selling tickets for these stations even on its website (e-ticketing) how can it be presumed by anybody that these stations are being closed, the PIA Spokesman added.

Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) (http://app.com.pk/en_/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=210001&Itemid=38)

[MANLEJ]

Anyone know what's happened to the Biman flights? They used to operate on a Wednesday and Saturday night, it I haven't seen them operate either flight for the past 2 weeks or so. I usually see them arriving when I leave work (if the flights are on time ;) ), and the Manchester airport app hasn't shown any arrivals for some time from Dhaka.

[Ringwayman]

Biman are running their own hadj operation this year and miscalculated what they needed operationally so had to cut back a number of routes. Should be back to normal soon.

[160to4DME]

Thai sniffing...yet again.

Personal thought is, if they were ever going to launch MAN, it should have been done before the gulf carriers became so entrenched there.

Perhaps it's the loss of connectivity with and interlining on to their LHR service which has prompted the re-look, though with their intention to bring the A380 to LHR next autumn, I'd have thought their priority would have been to secure the means to funnel as much traffic as possible through London.

Can't see MAN happening, though I'd love to see it personally. :{

Edited to correct iPad keyboard induced spelling errors :sad:

[TURIN]

Biman are supposed to be starting through flights to the US in summer 2013.
4 x week.

We shall see.

[MKY661]

Air Canada coming to MAN?
Manchester Airport Movements - Plane Mad (http://www.plane-mad.com/movements/manchester-airport/)

Looks like Ryanair are starting Nice too.

[airadio]

Ryanair and Nice as posted by a member on another forum

It turns out its for that Property convention in Nice that MAN usually hire in Jet2 for. However, for a very short period it was appearing in GDS at 4 weekly for the summer season.

[airchina787]

And no one has picked up the rumor of JAL looking at starting flights to MAN from Japan with 787 aircraft with there new 'JSA' with BA! at last we could have that long awaited 'far east' route! :ok:

Air Canada will be here with there new LCC when they let it out of the bags in the next couple of weeks! :D

everyone else is just dreams now :rolleyes: TG,NZ,CA,SU ETC!

[StoneyBridge Radar]

I just don't see the demand for a MAN - Japan route, even with the 787. The UK - Japan market is invariably soft and I would imagine JAL has other, more high yielding destinations on its radar before MAN.

Thai is an interesting one. They're the habitual window shopper, constantly popping back to have a look, yet never commiting to anything. Once they get a feed back to LHR, be it with VS or BA, their priority is going to be filling the A380 which commences at the beginning of the W13 schedule.

I've seen another comment that CX have pencilled MAN in for 2015 once the A350s come online. Good job they've used pencil, because they've had to erase their plans so manytimes before; time will tell....

I believe the ground work has been done, hotel contracts agreed provisionally etc for a MAN - SJD charter schedule, starting W13 with the 787. Nice to see the charter business still has scope to expand and develop, and Cabo will be a nice alternative for long haul sun seeekers.

Four new routes also due from RYR apparently.

[j636]

Four new routes also due from RYR apparently

Think you mean a few replacments from FR.

[cornishsimon]

Looks like from the Flymaybe summer schedules that have been released so far that MAN-NQY goes up to daily on BE :ok:


cs

[MAN777]

Now that the West coast mainline franchise is up in the air again, what do you think the chances of Virgin still going ahead with the MAN-LHR flights if they hold onto the trains ?

[cornishsimon]

I dont think that they will pull the route quite yet, after all sir richard beardy would have some very bad PR if he cancelled the route now after people had already booked it !


cs

[paully]

Bet he`s kicking himself for being a tad hasty..hehehehe:{

[easyflyer83]

Who's to say that the virgin domestics wouldn't have been launched even if Virgin had won the west coast franchise?

[Tight Seat]

Crew room rumour is Mon are bidding to run the Virgin short haul flights.

[BHX5DME]

http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/alldocs/3113AFC27F25C77180257A8C004B527B/$File/September+12.pdf

[j636]

Airline routes have the iceland flights operated by an 319. So will the next aircraft being.based be a 319

[kgoodall]

Air Canada are forming a low cost division (a la Air Transat / Canadian Affair). They haven't announced any routes yet but have confirmed that there will be European destinations.

They plan on using 767's from the mainline, two for 2013 and then more to me moved over when their 787s arrive.

It will be more than welcome seeing as I'm from the midlands but live in Ottawa now!

[mickyman]

Can I be the first to suggest a name for this new canadian
offshoot:

AirCanada ZOOM !!!

MM

[j636]

Air Canada are forming a low cost division (a la Air Transat / Canadian Affair). They haven't announced any routes yet but have confirmed that there will be European destinations.

They plan on using 767's from the mainline, two for 2013 and then more to me moved over when their 787s arrive.

It will be more than welcome seeing as I'm from the midlands but live in Ottawa now!


There plan is to transfer for some European routes first and if they are only using 2 767's for 2013 then I can't see MAN starting as Dublin and Barcelona are operated daily and would imagine that could be all for 2013.

[Suzeman]

Now that the West coast mainline franchise is up in the air again, what do you think the chances of Virgin still going ahead with the MAN-LHR flights if they hold onto the trains ?

The decision was nothing to do with the train franchise as it was being worked on for some months before the announcement of the loss of the train franchise. It was sparked off by the fact bmi was taken over by BA and there would be no competition on LHR - MAN anymore. And Branson always likes the opportunity to take a pop at BA :)

Rumour has it that following the franchise debacle that Virgin have been offered an extension of 1-2 years for the rail franchise operating as a management contractor for the Dept for Transport whilst the franchise business is sorted out. So I think that means that DfT will set the parameters for fares, frequency etc and Virgin will operate the trains for a fee.

Suzeman

[Skipness One Echo]

I think the last minute hokey cokey all over this suggests it became a priority when Virgin lost the trains franchise. They are clearly not unrelated, the left hand ought to have some idea what the right hand is doing.

Unless you are the late departed Abu Hamza.....

[european130]

l was speaking to a senior guy in Air Canada at LHR who said they had approached VS regarding a domestic link to Manchester from Heathrow as soon as knew they would loose the Star Alliance link with BMI to connect with their flights in LHR. Apparently they estimate that 200+ pax per day from MAN connect in Heathrow on AC flights to Canada, and they wanted an alterative to British Airways MAN/LHR.

[Mr A Tis]

Surely IF 200 people a day fly AC from MAN via LHR, then they deserve a direct non stop flight to Canada.(?)
I certainly wouldn't entertain flying via LHR to access an Air Canada flight, but might consider AC if it was non stop.
In the meantime, it's Air Transat or KLM via AMS for me, depending on schedules.

[CabinCrewe]

I am sure its not 200 all going to the same Canadian destination, plus its 200 out of one of their LHR services

[pwalhx]

That may be true but a %age would be going to Toronto and a %age of the rest would maybe transit YYZ rather then LHR, add in people using other airlines/routes it would suggest a direct service could be viable.

[Ivor Fynn]

Easyjet - New MAN routes showing on the easyjet mobile app: Antalya, Mykonos, Santorini and Venice.

Ivor

[Mr A Tis]

Disappointing if true, more Greek/Turkish bucket & spade routes. Venice already has over capacity from Monarch & Jet2. Vienna, Moscow and maybe even Seville would have been more interesting.

[wouldhave]

I have to disagree with you Mr A Tis. Mykonos is a route which has been served for a number of years from Manchester and with Thomson dropping the route next summer it provides an ideal opportunity for Easyjet to start a route which has proved popular for many years. It is not unusual to see fares on the Gatwick to Mykonos service at over £500 return per person and certainly this summer last minute flights on Thomson were not reduced to their normal price levels indicating 'possibly' a high usage service. Also both Mykonos and Santorini are not your traditional 'bucket and spade' destinations. A quick look at any hotel website will show a high percentage of the accommodation is high end and pricy meaning generally that customers are not afraid of spending a few bob to get to their destination. The flight times from London Gatwick do not permit easy transfers from the rest of the UK and most of the time mean an overnight stay. I applaud Easyjet for continuing to provide services which allows people from the midlands and north of the country to have access to routes which without it would mean a number of Greek islands, not just the islands the airport is on, would be much more difficult to access.

[MKY661]

Mykonos & Santorini are good choices in my opinion. Antalya & Venice are already served by other carriers so might be a bit competetive but we shall see. Hopefully EasyJet will announec even more routes.

I hope Vienna will also come onto the Map. Hopefully someone like Austrian or Niki will start it soon.

[Mouser]

Manchester Airport's propaganda machine/mouth piece namly North West Today/Tonight is at it again, christ I've just watched absolute ****e, an advert on the BBC for the Airport/Easyjet which lasted 50 odd seconds, christ it even showed a route map, and all this for eight flights a week, but nice see me licence money being used for adverts.

[chaps2011]

Ouch! it must of hurt

Ian

[Mouser]

My point was that it was basically an advert, I think they did report Liverpool in the negative I while back which is par for the course for this Manchester based/biased shower when Ryanair reduced their fleet at LPL.Manchester is very lucky to have a giant mouth piece batting for them.

[mufc4evr]

Someones jealous Ryanair/Easyjet have seen more potential at MAN which is a) a bigger airport and b) has a much bigger cachment area

Build a bridge and GET OVER IT thats life.

LPL has had great success with the amount of service they have had considering the proximity to MAN so i applaud for how well they have done but it was always gooing to be a matter of time before MAN swallowed its pride and bowed to the LCCs.

Regards

[StoneyBridge Radar]

For some reason my previous post seems to have been deleted.

The point I was trying to get across, with a heavy dose of sarcasm I admit, was that whenever the BBC report a good news story about a city, town, business, tourist attraction, you name it, in the North West, it is not a deliberate swipe at another part of the region.

Whenever we have a good news story for aviation North West, we inevitably get cries of foul, not fair, favouritism and why not us?

Please stop this inward looking resentment. It ain't healthy and it reduces normally educated debate into bar side barracking and sniping.

Fact is, a new based aircraft anywhere in the region is GREAT news for the region, not just Manchester. Candidates for the jobs reported will be drawn from the ENTIRE region, and for that reason, the story was absoutely newsworthy.

I would understand your anger had the report mentioned the fact Easy were reducing by 2 frames at LPL, BUT THEY DIDN'T !. :ugh:

The fact your bitterness and antipathy towards anything Manchester permeates your posts on here, says more for you than for the reporting standards of the BBC.

Let's ALL embrace the fact SOMEONE is investing in the region.

It's all good. Let's move on and look forward positively.

How can the region AS A WHOLE move forward with its aviation strategy?

Regards

[pwalhx]

I recall a long running series 'Airline' which was a 30 minute advert (a good or bad one could be debated) each week for Easyjet and heavily featured Liverpool and the routes from there.But to complain about that would be churlish in the same way to complain about new services from the region because it isn't from the airport you wish it was, works both ways.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Agree absolutely.

The irony is, this stupid MAN/LPL spat is exclusively between anoraks and enthusiasts.

Some might be amazed to learn that, in 'the biz", relations between all the northwest airports are remarkably cordial.

Let's cut the rivalry crap and focus on aviation, eh?

[CabinCrewe]

jeez the sanctimonious patronising claptrap spouted in here gets worse by the day.

[Ivor Fynn]

Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.


i.e. there is a spotters forum elsewhere.

Ivor

[nigel osborne]

According to Airline routes..Biman are to out of MAN and wont be returning.

Crikey wish theyd make up their mind after the second restart :sad:

BIMAN Bangladesh Airlines Oct – Dec 2012 Europe Operation Changes | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/10/11/bg-europe-oct12/)

Nigel

[PPRuNe Pop]

Stick to the topic. Winding up people is a fruitless and annoying pastime. The thread WILL be closed if the topic is ignored and gives way to personal agendas.

Mods

[chaps2011]

Northwest business news article this morning predicts Easyjet will expand
rapidly at Manchester
News**/**easyJet expecting further Manchester growth THEBUSINESSDESK.COM (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/382981-easyjet-bullsih-on-further-manchester-growth-and-business-travel-success.html?news_section=4148)




NO-frills airline easyJet is expecting to continue its rapid recent growth at Manchester Airport, and is confident its switch to allocated seating will woo more business travellers.
UK commercial manager Ali Gayward told TheBusinessDesk.com that from next February its operations from Manchester - which it has served for just four years - will be on a par with Liverpool John Lennon, where it has had a base since 1997.
She said: "We always knew Manchester's potential, so the growth here does not surprise us at all. I am sure before much longer it will be bigger than Liverpool, but it is a bigger city and has a much larger catchment area, across to Yorkshire and down to Stafford, and of course corporate infrastructure.
"Manchester is the second-largest aviation market in the UK and there remains a huge opportunity for us here."

Manchester's growth would not come at the expense of Liverpool, she stressed: "We have just flown our 30 millionth passenger there, so it remains a strategically important airport for easyJet, which as the country's largest airline wants to grow its presence everywhere.

Ian

[peppo_8787]

MAN-VCE from 14 February -2-4-6-
MAN-AYT from 26 March -2--5--
MAN-JMK from 20 April --3--6-
MAN-JTR from 15 May --3----

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: “The decision was nothing to do with the train franchise as it was being worked on for some months before the announcement of the loss of the train franchise. It was sparked off by the fact bmi was taken over by BA and there would be no competition on LHR - MAN anymore. And Branson always likes the opportunity to take a pop at BA”

Quote: “I think the last minute hokey cokey all over this suggests it became a priority when Virgin lost the trains franchise. They are clearly not unrelated, the left hand ought to have some idea what the right hand is doing.”

Probably linked to the fact that VS had leased out 3 slots pairs but has to use them to be eligible for the ABZ/EDI that BA has to lose, hence 3 daily LHR-MAN.

GLA next?

This was probably devised from the time that BA took over BD, and so pre-dates the event where Virgin Trains lost the franchise.

VS and Virgin Trains are also completely different organisations

Quote: “l was speaking to a senior guy in Air Canada at LHR who said they had approached VS regarding a domestic link to Manchester from Heathrow as soon as knew they would loose the Star Alliance link with BMI to connect with their flights in LHR. Apparently they estimate that 200+ pax per day from MAN connect in Heathrow on AC flights to Canada, and they wanted an alterative to British Airways MAN/LHR.“

Does this put VS one step closer to joining the Star Alliance?

[Seljuk22]

How is EK doing? Any need for a possible 4th daily flight to be started next year or a 2nd daily A380?

[OltonPete]

Seljuk22

No idea in respect of yields but load factor was around 79% for July & August but both were affected no doubt by Ramadan and it appears that August was a record.

September's figures are due out Monday.

August was still 61827 up 11% by far the best of the UK stations percentage wise. Looking back through libhomeradar, August saw 13 x 489 seat aircraft (per planespotters.net), 15 x 517 seat aircraft and three 77W's again assuming the data is accurate.

This has helped load factor and the same can be said for July with 9 x 487 seat A380 used. However EK have done this on a lot of their routes and they seem very flexible whether it is an A380 or two/three class 77W or two/three class A332.

The last 12 months per the CAA are as follows: -

August 61827
July 57691
June 51698
May 43590
April 54993
March 61528
February 57588
January 59468
December 55148
November 50612
October 52502
September 59853

The annual figure for 2011 was 637866 and for 2010 it was 565575 giving an increase of 13% per the CAA

Other UK airports for 2011 - LHR +6% (all airlines), BHX +1%, GLA +2%, NCL flat and LGW -2%.

In terms of "bums on seats" it seems Emirates is more than holding its own. I believe load factors were much higher when the service was twice daily, which is understandable and EK didn't suffer such an adverse percentage drop as Qatar when they increased to double daily. However Qatar's figures now that it is at 10 weekly look much stronger.

Pete

[LN-KGL]

I think we need to look a little bit closer on Emirates at MAN. Emirates has been been growing below the international scheduled segment average, and has even shown two months with negative growth this summer. The graph below is based on the CAA statistics for the Emirates number and the basis for the international schduled numbers came from the monthly traffic reports on the MAN webpage.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23931688/Graphs/Manchester/EK_at_MAN_2012-08.jpg

[mickyman]

LN-KGL

Your year has 17 months ?......The 17 month Int sch figures are still above 10%....ie: trending upwards.

How are Emirates doing at Oslo - all good I hope!

MM

[LN-KGL]

The graph is showing the 12 month figures for the last 17 months, and as you see Emirates has a lower year around growth compared with scheduled international flights from June this year (Emirates is performing worse than the average). Between May 2011 and May 2012 MAN and Emirates had an almost identical growth. The rolling year curves are perfect to show trends.

If you look at monthly changes you see how well or bad each month performed compared with the same month one year ago. Emirates had two really bad months this year - May and July - both with a decline compared with the same months one year ago.

Since we are talking about an airline from a Muslim country we always have to look out for the Ramadan period. This year's Ramadan lasted from 20 July to 18 August and last year from 1 August to 30 August. The Ramadan period you will inevitably fewer passengers and a boost at the Eid ul-Fitr that mark the end of Ramadan. You can see the result of this both this year and last year.

We are of the lucky few without Emirates, but Qatar is doing it quite well. ;)

[chaps2011]

I believe August were the highest pax loads they have ever had

Ian

[Seljuk22]

Thanks for the stats! Just asking cause in a while ago I read EK would launch a fourth daily flight on 1st June 2013.
Meanwhile capacity increases took place at LHR, NCL, GLA and DUB.
Don't know if an additional flight is necesary, maybe later in 2013.

[chaps2011]

Manchester increased in summer when the A330 in morning was replaced with B773

Ian

[mickyman]

LN-KGL

I never had you down as an airline snob but will have to
change my opinion I see - from your last sentence.
You'll have a go at Ryanair next.....

Success breeds jealousy breeds snobbery - as they say.

MM

[LN-KGL]

First I'm anal and now I'm a snobb - what's next mickyman?

[chaps2011]

LN-KGL pls tell us was is the matter with EK and we have QR and EY also so
no problem (well there is because EY has returned to Abu Dhabi with no arrival time showing at all)

Chaps

[mickyman]

LN-KGL

Nothing is next - I enjoy your analysis (is this where you get anal from?)
and your reality check stats are always reliably fun.

MM

[LN-KGL]

The word anal you used in a comment on 23rd July 2011 mickyman - that's all.

It looks like the best in class label for Emirates at MAN is fading a bit. Emirates has still free seats. EK17/18 has been in the low 300 at times as well as filled to the rim in September. Lucky for Emirates, seats "in front" are filled and only the Ys "in the back" are missing. In other words MAN is missing Y passengers - dare I say the word reccession? The average distance flown for flights at MAN have gone down, and traffic wise (number of passengers x flown distance) MAN has practically been at a stand still this summer. The three big gainers at MAN in August were Spain (+82,649 passenger), Italy (+37,248 passengers) and Germany (+23,055). The three big loosers the same month were Cyprus (-26,509 passengers), Greece (-15,966 passengers) and United States of America (-15,837 passengers). In a different forum I quote the title of a novel written by Peter Robinson, and looks like I need to do this here too - and the novel was named: "The Summer That Never Was".

[chaps2011]

Good loads on A380 today just shy 400 inbound and just under 500 out
Don`t forget everybodies favourite tax APD which is destroying long distant holidays.

Chaps

[LN-KGL]

147 free seats in and 32 free seats out to be exact.

There hasn't been a huge change for the APD since last year. For a flight to US it was last year £60 and this year £65 in Y.

[Skipness One Echo]

he best in class label for Emirates at MAN is fading a bit.
Is it me or has the on time performance gone out the window recently? DXB seems to be bursting at the seams!

[LN-KGL]

I've look at the departure times from DXB the last month and to me only five flights pops up with an up to one hour delay - 2x EK (13 Oct and 30 Sep), 1x EK19 (28 Sep) and 2x EK21 (20 Sep and 16 Sep). Times used came from data.flight24.com.

[chaps2011]

LN-KGL maybe not but the airlines like TCX and MON are pulling virtually
out of long haul leaving Thomson who have also less long haul aircraft
which has taken 2 years to filter down

[chaps2011]

LN-KGL maybe not but the airlines like TCX and MON are pulling virtually
out of long haul leaving Thomson who have also less long haul aircraft
which has taken 2 years to filter down

[Suzeman]

Sept provisional CAA Stats
ATMs 15275 -0.2%
Terminal Passengers 2083472 +2.4%

Rolling 12 months
ATMs 160418 +2.3%
Terminal Passengers 19409647 +4.2%

Steady progress being made :ok:

Full set of UK Airports info here
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data_prov/201209/September_2012_Provisional_Airport_Statistics.pdf

[LN-KGL]

With the provisional September report released, here are an updated graph I did show you in #111:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23931688/Graphs/Manchester/EK_at_MAN_2012-09.jpg

The below average growth for Emirates at MAN continued in September with 2.9 percentage points lower growth than the average for scheduled international flights.

The top five gaining countries in September were:
1 Italy = +32,804 passengers
2 Germany = +20,764 passengers
3 France = + 11,327 passengers
4 United Arab Emirates = +8,635 passengers
5 Norway = +7,938 passengers

The top country in August, Spain, is down at the 12th place in September.

If we look at the loosers, three of them are the Eastern Mediterranean countries Turkey, Greece and Cyprus. These three together with Sitzerland and Sweden form the five loosers in September.

[mickyman]

LN-KGL

If yield info was available then I am sure your negative bent towards
Emirates at Manchester would be put into context.

Do you have comparisons with all Emirates stations in the UK that you could share ?
Perhaps a graph showing the numbers on all flights in the UK
from the various airports for the last 17or12 month period? followed by the available seats per station?

I would be obliged if you could - thanks

MM

[roverman]

It must be taken into account that EK have moved to a three class configuration on all MAN services which may reduce the overall seat capacity and in response to growing demand for F and C seats in this market. This was a major driver in the decision to deploy the A380 two years ago.

[LN-KGL]

mickyman, your suggestion has to be something for the weekend

[vulcanised]

BBC News - Manchester Airports Group to bid for Stansted (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-19980042)

[Mr Mac]

Reguler flyer on EK for a long number of years and have to say the planes I have travelled on have always been full in Business over this last few months indeed the questuion asked by one fellow passenger at the bar was what recession ?, as First and Business were all full;). I have even had to put in stops in DXB hotels as could not get on flight making decent connections due to flight being full !. I do know that the early morning flight is not so busy as a rule - yet. Also bare in mind cargo that can be shifted on a lightly loaded a/c helps cover costs. Do not think EK will lose much sleep over keyboard strategists on this site talking about Man load factors in my experiance.

[JackRalston]

EXS809 MAN-AGP departed before, got onto UN862 then did a 180 and is currently circling at FL110 over LBA, no emergency squawk too. :confused:

[LBIA]

The EXS809 MAN-AGP operated by Boeing 737-300, G-CELJ this afternoon has landed safely on LBA's runway 14. The pilot is quoted on another site as complaining of engine vibrations to ATC.
Hence the reason i guess to divert to LBA is for engineering purposes?

[Boddingtons]

Anyone know why there were big 7 hour delays to Monarch's Venice and Barcelona flights today?

Friends been stuck in BCN all day.

[peppo_8787]

Easyjet opens Ivalo-Manchester? appeared in the mobile website easyJet

[750XL]

Don't U2 do IVL charters every year?

[MKY661]

Sure they have done it before. Have had to send routes to Flightradar24 which originally were MAN-IVL or IVL-MAN.

[Seljuk22]

airblue will launch 4 weekly flights to Islamabad with ex-Turkish A343 (all Economy) from 27th November
airblue to Launch A340 Islamabad – Manchester Nonstop Service from late-Nov 2012 | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/10/20/pa-man-nov12/)

[LN-KGL]

mickyman:
Do you have comparisons with all Emirates stations in the UK that you could share ?
Perhaps a graph showing the numbers on all flights in the UK
from the various airports for the last 17or12 month period? followed by the available seats per station?

I only use open sources for this Dubai - UK comparison. It may be possible to find the individuals that have flown the routes, but I don't have access to what each individual has of seat numbers. To know the load factor for the flight on the route don't tell anything about the yield or RASK. Load factor, yield and RASK is the carriers business secret - and I think we have to let it stay so.

Then we are left with only passenger numbers given in the monthly traffic reports from CAA. Of the six UK airports with scheduled flights to Dubai, five of them have only one operator, Emirates. The sixth airport, Heathrow, has five operators on the route, but only four of them do sell tickets: British Airways, Emirates, Royal Brunei Airlines and Virgin Atlantic Airways.

Below you will find a graph showing the market share of the six airport based on rolling year numbers. Since there is such a large difference between Heathrow and the rest, I've removed most of the area between 20% and 40% so that you get a better view of the five others. The red curve that is different than all the rest is showing us the year rolling passenger numbers between Dubai and UK, and the axis to the right gives the units.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23931688/Graphs/Manchester/Dubai-UK-Year-Rolling-Passengers_2012-09.jpg

Much can be said about these curves, but let's start with the changes in the passenger numbers (red curve). It is easy to spot that something happened at the start of S12 (end of March 2012). What was a steady growth stopped, and the mangnitude of the drop the next two months in passenger numbers was equal to the Icelandic ash drop in April 2010. At the end of September there is still 7,348 passengers missing to get to the March level of 4,143,599 passengers per year. Since the first three months of 2012 and the three last in 2011 was so good, the 12 months growth was still +2.5%.

Now let's start up North with the airports:

Glasgow is enjoying an all time high both for market share and passenger numbers. 295,833 passengers flew between DXB and GLA the last 12 months (+8.6%) and that was 7.2% of the passengers between Dubai and UK. Since new year GLA has got 20,817 new passengers. If we compare the 3rd quarter this year with the 3rd quarter in 2011 then GLA grew 19.0% (qual to 14,199 passengers).

Newcastle had its passenger all time high in July last summer and the top market share came in March the same year. 161,082 passengers flew between DXB and NCL the last 12 months (+1.9%) and that was 3.9% of the passengers between Dubai and UK. Since new year NCL has lost 2,089 passengers. If we compare the 3rd quarter this year with the 3rd quarter in 2011 then NCL grew 1.1% (qual to 479 passengers).

Manchester has seen the last hslf year two months with decline in passenger number, and both market share and year rolling passenger numbers peaked in April this year. 669,316 passengers (1,018 passengers lower than the peak) flew between DXB and MAN the last 12 months (+7.2%) and that was 16.2% of the passengers between Dubai and UK. Since new year MAN has got 31,450 new passengers. If we compare the 3rd quarter this year with the 3rd quarter in 2011 then MAN grew 2.6% (qual to 4,672 passengers).

Birmingham has seen a steady decline in passenger numbers and market share since they peaked in April 2011. 474,597 passengers (37,209 passengers lower than the peak) flew between DXB and BHX the last 12 months (-6.2%) and that was 11.5% of the passengers between Dubai and UK. Since new year BHX has lost 25,375 passengers. If we compare the 3rd quarter this year with the 3rd quarter in 2011 then BHX declined 7.9% (qual to -10,368 passengers).

Heathrow is enjoying all time high for both for year rolling passenger numbers and market share this September. 1,920,569 passengers flew between DXB and LHR the last 12 months (+3.2%) and that was 46.4% of the passengers between Dubai and UK. Since new year LHR has gained 31,076 more passengers. If we compare the 3rd quarter this year with the 3rd quarter in 2011 then LHR grew 2.5% (qual to 12,643 passengers).

Gatwick is experiencing a more an less steady decline in market share since June 2010, but with that small decline Gatwick continued to grow in passenger number until the same time as the total UK numbers peaked in March. 614,853 passengers flew between DXB and LGW the last 12 months (+1.2%) and that was 14.9% of the passengers between Dubai and UK. Since new year LGW has lost 2,247 passengers. If we compare the 3rd quarter this year with the 3rd quarter in 2011 then LGW declined 6.5% (qual to -11,374 passengers).


My conclusions is as follows:
LHR and GLA are both experiencing all time highs at the end of September
MAN had the biggest growth in passenger numbers the nine first months this year
GLA had the biggest percentage growth the last 12 months as well as the biggest passenger growth in both percentage and passenger numbers in the 3rd quarter
No doubt, Birmingham was the big looser with largest decline in passenger this year, largest decline the last 12 months and largest percentage decline in 3rd quarter.
Gatwick had the largest decline in passenger numbers 3rd quarter
The graph above spans almost two years and during this time we can clearly see MAN overtaking LGW to take over the second place. The last months results shows that this second spot to MAN is more and more secure.

If you follows @routesnews, two days ago three tweets appeared with links to the above and they said:

Routes News 18.10.2012 11:07
Early days of Manchester-Dubai were 'verry tough' but set a new trend in long haul says Laurie Berryman VP UK Emirates at #investandmanage

Routes News 18.10.2012 11:12
Glasgow-Dubai was Emirates fastest growing route. Scots hate connecting through London says Laurie Berryman VP UK Emirates at #investandmanage

Routes News 18.10.2012 11:19
APD is hitting sales in the UK regions and people drive from NI to Dublin to escape it says Laurie Berryman VP UK Emirates at #investandmanage

Looks like Emirates and I say the same about Glasgow. With the regards to the last tweet; What does the APD do to MAN? In the 3rd quarter there are two very large European hub airports that showed a significant growth (+10.5% and +16.2%) and both airports are served of other airlines than the residing hub airline.

The last six months I've been three times to AMS and all the times I've seen British citizens with easyJet tags on their bags queuing up at KLM check ins. Is this the new way to minimize the size of the APD? Buying separate tickets with easyJet to AMS (2x£13) and continue flying APD free to the rest of the world?

[Skipness One Echo]

Market share, to Dubai? What % are bound for DXB? Marketshare is relevant on origin to destination in this case given Emirates are a hub carrier.

[LN-KGL]

Dubai Interntional Airport doesn't anything about the transfer share in their monthly press releases. Here is a link to the August traffic press release:
Press releases (http://www.dubaiairport.com/en/media-centre/Pages/press-releases.aspx?id=104)

But I guess the transfer share for the Emirates flights are pretty high - above 80%?

[mickyman]

LN-KGL

Firstly....thanks for the info you have provided about the
Emirates operations in the U.K.It must have taken some
assembling and collating so I want you to know that it
IS appreciated.
I have found one glimmer of solace for the Manchesterfiles
here and there that question your negative leaning on reports for
MAN.

Manchester had 0.1% better growth in passengers numbers than
Heathrow in the first 9 months of the year!

I'm not suprised the Scots have taken to Emirates in the way
you describe.I also see why people avoid the APD by flying
via a european hub and perhaps this will be seen more and
more in the future and reflect especially in the regional
airports performance.

Thanks again,

MM

[LN-KGL]

For those of you that want to know more good news - here is the top 20 gainer list for the 3rd quarter in 2012.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23931688/Tabeller/MAN_3rdQ_2012.jpg

14 of the 20 countries on the list are Euopean. Italy and Spain had a close race the first two months, but in September Spain ended up only on 12th place and lost rather clearly to Italy. Germany came in on a very clear 3rd place. The race for the three next places was very close, but Norway ended up on 4th place due to its consistent growth.

[MANLEJ]

Just seen an airbus beluga land at Manchester. Anyone know why? I was just having a look at flightradar24 app, and saw it on approach. The route seemed to suggest it was going to Broughton, but then came to Manchester.

[chaps2011]

Fog at Hawarden

Chaps

[Mr A Tis]

WX. Fog @ Hawarden
EGNR 211050Z 15005KT 120V190 0650 FG OVC000 08/08 Q1021

[MANLEJ]

Any idea What time it left at? I've tried to keep a watch over flightradar24 but haven't seen it depart yet.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

It has been reported on one of the Yahoo Groups that the Beluga will now overnight at Manchester Airport.

[Seljuk22]

Norwegian will start 2 weekly flights to Stavanger from 1st April.

[roverman]

These will be welcomed by the Man United Superstore at Old Trafford.

[horatio_b]

News / BA to axe daily Gatwick flights THEBUSINESSDESK.COM (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/389997-ba-to-axe-daily-gatwick-flights.html?news_section=4148)

[Skipness One Echo]

Of course they are, as soon as the timings became rubbish, that was apparent. Passengers fall, losses rise, closure beckons. Annoyed though as I used it a lot, quite cheap too which was probably a clue.

I wonder if GLA and EDI will be next?

[MUFC_fan]

Could that open the door for easyJet?

[adfly]

Probably! Or Flybe as a longer shot (Probably only likely on a E195 though).

[european130]

I hope U2 or BE do make a connection available as so many people used the BA service to connect in Gatwick with the Caribbean flights or BA and VS, not just as a point to point service.

[roverman]

It did seem like this route was dying recently and so perhaps not surprising it is dropped. It does leave BA without feed to the long haul leisure routes ex LGW, and (from my experience) a loss to the considerable number of air crews who currently use it to dead-head between two major charter bases. That may be part of the problem - these folk don't account for much revenue.

[CabinCrew747]

Non-rev fares to/from LON are now substantially more then the lowest fare confirmed tickets. The only benefit is the flexibility however it still deems them very unattractive.

[johnnychips]

If Flybe could get a codeshare with BA and through-ticketing on a smaller aircraft? There are several popular destinations, like Naples, that are not daily available from Manchester that used this link.

Also there must be a market domestically from Manchester to the south London and Brighton area that is more convenient than Heathrow.

[Skipness One Echo]

I hope U2 or BE do make a connection available as so many people used the BA service to connect in Gatwick with the Caribbean flights or BA and VS, not just as a point to point service.
Most of which are gone by mid morning. LGW was de-hubbed and now gets by on point to point with some feed from the regions. However the second and third daily flights would have next to no long haul to feed.
The second issue is that the B737-400 is not ideal, it's too big for frequency, and they didn't replace the smaller B737-300/500s. Removing the night stopping MAN-LGW killed what was left.
flybe and GIP at LGW are in dispute over charges, MAN-LGW would not do well under the current charging regime.

[roverman]

This will be an interesting one to watch. You can't escape the feeling that there is a market for a link between the UK's second and third airports, hub or not. It probably comes down to operating costs. MAN has its charges under control, LGW has been spending freely and needs to recoup, which may make an otherwise viable route not so for a lower cost airline. If the route is not revived it just might boost the case for a few more Carribean and other services direct out of MAN, but not with BA of course. VS perhaps?

[North West]

Gatwick has more demand vs runway capacity than MAN, so can price accordingly. I think you'll find they are very much in control and on top of things down there

[roverman]

My comment on charges was really a reflection on how MAN was for so long seen as an expensive airport. It'll never be Peel but this perception and reality has now changed. LGW can no doubt charge according to demand but the MAN-LGW may not be so elastic as to be viable at those rates.

[Skipness One Echo]

If you look at just how much GIP have spent, you'll realise that there's a danger of uncompetitve charges. It's still mainly TOM/MON/EZY/BA/VS to the sun with DY bigging it up. FR gave up on most sun routes and BE dropped LBA and ABZ. Domestic in particular is a challenge.

I think GIP have an overly optimistic view of what they can sustain at LGW. This is a lesson MAN went through and has adapted well to. Don't marginalise one part of your market through exorbitant fees!

[RoyHudd]

The route has seemed like a shuttle for Virgin, Thomas Cook, and BA particularly. Me bet is easyJet next.

[BHX5DME]

Ryanair Announces 1 Million Pax Growth In 2013 In North West

1 MILLION NEW PASSENGERS & 1,000 NEW JOBS

Ryanair, Europe’s only ultra-low cost airline, today (31 Oct) announced 1m passenger growth at 3 North West airports in 2013, adding 1m new passengers and a total of 9 new routes at Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands airports, which will sustain up to 1,000 new jobs*.

Manchester Summer 2013:
· 34 routes, 5 new routes – Corfu, Krakow, Lanzarote, Paphos & Trapani
· 360,000 new passengers (over 2.4m pax)
· 360 new jobs, over 2,400 jobs in total
· 1 new aircraft

Liverpool Summer 2013:
· 39 routes, 2 new routes – Lublin & Zadar
· Over 180,000 new passengers (over 2.1m pax)
· 180 new jobs, over 2,100 jobs in total

East Midlands Summer 2013:
· 38 routes, 2 new routes – Marseille & Menorca (Growth on 17 other routes)
· 460,000 new passengers (over 2.3m pax)
· 460 new jobs, over 2,300 jobs in total
· 1 new aircraft

To celebrate 1m passenger growth in 2013 and the launch of its Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands 2013 summer schedules, Ryanair is launching a seat sale with 100,000 seats across its European network at prices starting from just £15.99 for travel on Mon, Tues, Wed and Thur in November and December, which are available for booking until midnight Thur (1 Nov).

Ryanair’s 9 new summer routes from Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands will be available for booking on www.ryanair.com (http://www.ryanair.com/) tomorrow.

In Manchester today, Ryanair’s Michael O’Leary said:

“Ryanair today celebrates 1m passenger growth at three North West airports, with 9 new routes, which will sustain 1,000 new jobs at Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands airports.

Our 34 Manchester routes (including 5 new to Corfu, Krakow, Lanzarote , Paphos and Trapani), 39 Liverpool routes (including 2 new to Lublin and Zadar) and 38 East Midlands routes (including 2 new to Marseille and Menorca) will deliver almost 7m passengers and sustain over 7,000 jobs at Manchester, Liverpool and East Midlands airports in 2013.”

* ACI confirms up to 1,000 ‘on-site’ jobs per 1m passengers

[Mr A Tis]

Just what we have been crying out for, a new non stop direct flight to ......Trapani ( ?) where is it?

[peppo_8787]

Is in Sicily .. But I say instead of opening a route of Trapani, why not connecting Palermo? Much more useful .. Well!

[Mr A Tis]

Ah, found it now. If only he'd of put Naples (South) then I would have known where he meant.;)

[Sal73x]

Hehehe Mr A Tis, I guess that if it said Sicily-Trapani it would have been more direct but

in 2010 the route Liverpool-Trapani went really well and from Manchester it can go only better.
Trapani offers the right product and has always had excellent feedback from the british tourist that visited this part of the island.

[EI-BUD]

360 new jobs, over 2,400 jobs in total
· 1 new aircraft




Fantastic news. Why on earth can the government not simply ask Ryanair to say put a few dozen planes around the country and this would fully address the unemployment situation across the UK...

MOL to the rescue of the people

[gazza007]

Bizzare decision to pull/suspend Man - Lgw. Use the service regularly on business and to visit family in Kent. 734 was full thu eve & almost full on return on Sunday night.
Jet2 tried to compete a few years ago. Maybe they will have another go. BA pulling For their own commercial reasons as they have realised that pax don't use the service to transfer to other BA routes they have really abandoned Man over the years. I hope somebody picks up the route

[vectisman]

I am sure another carrier will pick it up.
BE or Easyjet if they think they can make a go of it.
Would be good if BE had a code share with BA.
V

[750XL]

Could BM possibly give it a pop?

[j636]

Route Increases:
SAS
Oslo increases to 6 weekly
Copenhagen increases to 14 weekly

Air Transat
Toronto increases to 8 weekly
Calgary increases to 3 weekly

Rumours (some may being posted before)
Air Canada (loco) - 6 weekly YYZ
Delta - A332 to ATL
Norwegian - Helsinki 4 weekly
Air China - A330 6 weekly
Thomson - Cozumel, Mexico with 787 from Nov 13
United - 5 weekly to SFO with B763
United - IAD changes to B763
United - EWR goes 2 daily

Anyone any thaughts?

[LN-KGL]

Looks like Norwegian are ready with their summer schedules and HEL-MAN is not among them. You have to be satified with an increase from 4 to 9 weekly Norwegian flights for this time.

[CabinCrewe]

Would be surprised to see UA to SFO

[Skipness One Echo]

United at FOUR daily? Seriously?

[Suzeman]

Some chitter - chatter on other t'internet fora that we may soon hear of a CX HKG service. Started by the appearance of HKG on the Man Airport destinations map in the last couple of days......

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Route Increases:
SAS
Oslo increases to 6 weekly
Copenhagen increases to 14 weekly

Air Transat
Toronto increases to 8 weekly
Calgary increases to 3 weekly

Rumours (some may being posted before)
Air Canada (loco) - 6 weekly YYZ
Delta - A332 to ATL
Norwegian - Helsinki 4 weekly
Air China - A330 6 weekly
Thomson - Cozumel, Mexico with 787 from Nov 13
United - 5 weekly to SFO with B763
United - IAD changes to B763
United - EWR goes 2 daily

Anyone any thaughts?"

Be good to see any or all of this!




Quote: "Would be surprised to see UA to SFO"

Agreed, but pleasantly surprised.



Quote: "Some chitter - chatter on other t'internet fora that we may soon hear of a CX HKG service. Started by the appearance of HKG on the Man Airport destinations map in the last couple of days......"

Again, it would be good to see this, it's always good to see more longhaul at the UK's major airports.

Weren't CX at MAN before?

[chaps2011]

You are quite right sir it has appeared on route map and I have also heard
a number of other things which does make it sound if it may well be happening
which would involve an A343http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Chaps

[Mr A Tis]

Well LGW has lost the Hong Kong Airlines & LHR are losing the Air New Zealand HKG from March, so I'd be very surprised if anyone is coming on board to try from MAN.
I'd be very please if they did. I usually go via FRA or MUC- but this week I'm going via DOH.
I think the website maybe just targeting HKG as a destination with connections, of which there are many ; LH, LX, EK, TK, QR, CX/BA & soon VS.

[spannersatcx]

As stated many times before, CX has no plans to fly HKG-MAN before the introduction of the A350 (2015/6). The only reason they would start before that is if somebody else started to fly to HKG/China.

[One Sixty until 4.]

Spanners - please forgive my naiivety here, but if Operator Y starts a direct MAN-China and CX bring forward any plans to re-commence MAN ops....won't that risk the passenger loads for either fledgeling service as it seeks to establish its' customer base. I could envisage both airlines quickly saying isn't profitable enough and we are left with no direct services again.

I wonder how much traffic is already lost to the Dubai shuttles that means new operators have a harder battle than just influencing the BA customer base who transit via LHR? :*

[Ringwayman]

I think the website maybe just targeting HKG as a destination with connections, of which there are many ; LH, LX, EK, TK, QR, CX/BA & soon VS.

They are also targetting other routes, none of which appear on the website as destinations, all of which can be reached through connecting using existing routes.

There's something more to this one being listed and not the others.

[STATSMAN]

Tumbleweed running through T2 departures this afternoon Doha left at 14.05 next departure 6.40 tomorrow morning.

[roverman]

T2 airline profile is heavily weighted towards morning, especially at this time of year when the Monarch programme is slimmed down. November is the quietest month too. It will get a little better from the 27th when Air Blue start the 4 x weekly non-stop A340 service, leaving at 2200 hours.

[jackieofalltrades]

Fairdealfrank Rumours (some may being posted before)
Air Canada (loco) - 6 weekly YYZ
Delta - A332 to ATL
Norwegian - Helsinki 4 weekly
Air China - A330 6 weekly
Thomson - Cozumel, Mexico with 787 from Nov 13
United - 5 weekly to SFO with B763
United - IAD changes to B763
United - EWR goes 2 daily

I recently read on some newspaper app that Delta were looking to increase capacity on the ATL-MAN route, so to go from the 767-300 to an A330 would make sense. I imagine they may mix use of A332 and A333 on the route, but I have no definitive evidence they would other than the fact Delta do that on other routes.

I've also read about Air Canada restarting the YYZ-MAN. Although that was back in the summer and I don't recall it specifically mentioning it being their low cost subsidiary. Especially as that hasn't really taken off yet.

[vectisman]

Any news yet about another operating taking up the Manchester-Gatwick route? I do believe there is a market out there despite the trains!!
BA services to Manchester this Winter from Gatwick are actually more business friendly on key days of the weeks allowing full working days in both cities. Would be great if this lead to better yield and to BA rethinking their plan to axe the service. I suppose I am finding idea of no Gatwick Manchester service difficult to get used to!! Been using it since the BCAL days in the late 70s!! (I was merely a baby then of course!!)
V.

[airchina787]

The Air China word was just a smoke screen for the HKG flight, which seems to be a lot more solid,

All fingers are pointing hard at CX !

and you can forget NZ - period. I emailed Rob Fyfe and got this back -

''The challenge for us is the through traffic – we are at a material disadvantage flying a route where we don’t have a home market at one end of the route. The home market carriers at either end of the Hong Kong – UK market have a material advantage over Air New Zealand in terms of feed''

[Mr A Tis]

I was on that Doha flt Wednesday. On time at 1405 & was the very last T2 departure of the day. Spooky empty terminal.
i'M currently in HKG. The news here is that ANZ are increasing services to China & cutting back elsewhere.
Also in the news here is CX saying they are finding EU ops tough, low margins & rationalisation of services. Rome is the latest to have its frequency cut. So don't see a new route on the cards anywhere !

[Fairdealfrank]

Wasn't reporting the route increases, jackieofalltrades, just commenting that any or all of it would be good to see! Have no idea if its rumour or fact or a bit of both.

AFAIK, the more destinations and services operating to/from Ringway, the better, or any other of the major UK airports, BHX, GLA, etc. for that matter.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "and you can forget NZ - period. I emailed Rob Fyfe and got this back -

''The challenge for us is the through traffic – we are at a material disadvantage flying a route where we don’t have a home market at one end of the route. The home market carriers at either end of the Hong Kong – UK market have a material advantage over Air New Zealand in terms of feed'' "

This implies three things:

(1) NZ have 5th freedom on LHR-HKG but can't compete with BA, VS, CX and QF and that their 5th freedom route LHR-LAX is doing better competing with BA, VS, and UA, and don't think they'd fare any better as the sole carrier on HKG-MAN;

(2) The demise of BD and the consequent weakening of LHR as a Star Alliance base has adversely impacted on NZ at LHR;

(3) They are not getting sufficient LHR-AKL traffic on this route, which is surprising as LHR-HKG-AKL should be less hassle than LHR-LAX-AKL because of the USA customs/border control requirements for pax in transit at LAX.

[spannersatcx]

Also in the news here is CX saying they are finding EU ops tough Yet LHR had the highest load factor in the whole network at 91% last week! Unfortunately yields are low though. :confused:

[Skipness One Echo]

Quick question chaps (and chappesses!)
When Malaysian flew to Manchester, can anyone confirm the flight numbers?
I have MH012 / but was the Eastbound 11 or 13?

Thanks!

[Curious Pax]

It was MH11.

[Skipness One Echo]

Thanks mate.

[jackieofalltrades]

Wasn't reporting the route increases, jackieofalltrades, just commenting that any or all of it would be good to see! Have no idea if its rumour or fact or a bit of both.

I get you now. Mis-read what you had written. But like I mentioned in my previous post, I have read that Delta are looking to put an A330 on the ATL-MAN route. And I agree with your sentiments, that to see those routes added (reinstated in some cases) to the MAN portfolio would be good for the airport.

[vectisman]

Any news yet of a replacement carrier for Manchester-Gatwick? Very surprised nothing has yet been announced.
V.

[gazza007]

Any news yet of a replacement carrier for Manchester-Gatwick? Very surprised nothing has yet been announced.I did tweet BA about them pulling a popular service, their response being that it was for commercial reasons. I have noted that LGW is having some new summer services using the 734.

Also tweeted Virgin with a hint that MAN - LGW could be a good move for them.

[european130]

The following post was shown on another forum that lists new services for Manchester:-

New Service - Saturday 05th January 2013
Arr: 19:00, Dep: 21:00 - Air India Boeing 787-800 Commences Service 2X Weekly In replacement of Bangladesh

If it is true it will beat the Thomson 787 as being the first to operate from Manchester with the aircraft type.

[TSR2]

I thought Air India were trying to off-load their B787's due to their financial situation.

[european130]

Agree, there are three 787's waiting to be delivered to Air India as soon as they can work out bridge financing to pay for them..But it's on the web forum that i read this morning, as shown above..

[Suzeman]

Three 787 already delivered - one landing at Dubai as I send this message.

Be interesting to see if there is anything in this story....

Suzeman

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: “New Service - Saturday 05th January 2013
Arr: 19:00, Dep: 21:00 - Air India Boeing 787-800 Commences Service 2X Weekly In replacement of Bangladesh”

Quote: “I thought Air India were trying to off-load their B787's due to their financial situation.”

Quote: “Agree, there are three 787's waiting to be delivered to Air India as soon as they can work out bridge financing to pay for them..But it's on the web forum that i read this morning, as shown above..”

MAN-BOM on AI? Would say not a chance, good though it would be to have more long haul ex-MAN (or BHX, GLA, etc.. for that matter)!

AI are in dire financial straits. Would expect it to be likely with 9W if at all.

Suspect that the likes of EK, EY, QR and TK already have this particular traffic sown up!

PS nothing about MAN on the AI website.

[nigel osborne]

european130,.. Re Air India

Jeez seem some far fetched rumours for many UK airports but this wins first prize !.

No ones heard anything yet this is only about 7 weeks till launch ?

Manchester had a joint press conference with Jet Airways 2 years ago and I would not be surprised to see them start out of MAN if they have the planes and money in the next 18 months.

Hope AI prove me wrong.

Nigel

[roverman]

The Air India story looks highly improbable on a number of counts. I can't see how a service presumably to an Indian destination replaces one to Bangladesh.
I'm not well up on the geo-politics of the region but I do recall an acrimonious spilt of what is now Bangladesh from India in 1970/1. Possibly there is still some tension between the two neighbours such that a Bangladeshi would prefer to avoid travelling via India, and if there is no direct service from MAN anymore will choose another route such as via London or the Gulf hubs.

The 'replacement' theory may just be a bad translation or whatever, but there are other reasons to doubt the truth of this story. Never say never in this business, but as a risk assessor I would have to say highly improbable.

[OltonPete]

If anyone is trying to second-guess Air India forget it - see this article

AI may fly Dreamliner to San Francisco (http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/ai-may-fly-dreamliner-to-san-francisco/492865/)

One, it is the aviation minister and not the airline CEO and two, it is further from Singapore to SFO than direct using the distance calculators I have found (and others) on the web.

This debate has been lifted from another forum and it is quite amazing but should not be surprising when coupled with the 787 delivery saga .



Pete

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "I'm not well up on the geo-politics of the region but I do recall an acrimonious spilt of what is now Bangladesh from India in 1970/1. Possibly there is still some tension between the two neighbours such that a Bangladeshi would prefer to avoid travelling via India, and if there is no direct service from MAN anymore will choose another route such as via London or the Gulf hubs."

Bangladesh seceeded from Pakistan in 1971, it was the former East Pakistan. India and Pakistan were at war at the same time. In the early days, therefore, relations between India and Bangladesh were very cordial, who knows what there like today.



Quote: "One, it is the aviation minister and not the airline CEO and two, it is further from Singapore to SFO than direct using the distance calculators I have found (and others) on the web.

This debate has been lifted from another forum and it is quite amazing but should not be surprising when coupled with the 787 delivery saga ."

On reading this post, did a quick check on great circle mapper as it's a northbound(ish) heading from India, wheras Singapore is southeast.

BOM-SFO: 8,406 mi.

BOM-SIN-SFO: 10,882 mi.

A lot of extra miles to pick up some 5th freedom pax!

Suspecting that it may be shorter than via SIN, did another check on great circle mapper:

BOM-LHR-SFO: 9,854

Then read the article which mentions 400 pax/day between DEL and SFO.
That fills the plane easily, so no need for 5th freedom pax ex-SIN. From DEL the nonstop route is shorter.

There's probably similar pax numbers from BOM and BLR (IT/silicon valley business) as well.

Incidentally, 9W were/are(?) doing BOM-PVG-SFO, which is 9,301 mi. according to great circle mapper.

[european130]

Just checked the website that was showing the Air India post this morning into Manchester, and it is no more, nothing now showing.......rumour put to sleep.

[ben_keghead]

EasyJet to fly Manchester to Moscow, Prague and Thessaloniki from spring 2013

[roverman]

It's official : Cathay's CEO says they are planning a return to Manchester with passenger services, but we'll have to wait for the A350, as Spanners has suggested on this thread several times.

Cathay eyes new European and North American points with A350-900 (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/cathay-eyes-new-european-and-north-american-points-with-a350-900-379290/)

[DomyDom]

In 2016? I wouldn't hold your breath.

[chaps2011]

I must say that have actually put it in writing

[spannersatcx]

2016 is when CX orders are due for delivery, however I have heard that CX may be buying into some earlier production slots, but don't hold your breath.

Interestingly I heard that a strong case/presentation was put forward very recently on flying to MAN with the 777, the response I'm told was - not in the current climate in Europe, we will not start any new services to Europe in this economic climate. :{

As I said previously, if someone else was to start a service to the region, CX would react very quickly, until such time we must wait until 2016. :zzz:

[vectisman]

Still very quiet about possible replacement carrier for Manchester-Gatwick.
I have read elsewhere that since the announcement by BA of their decision to suspend the route loads have been healthy!!, I know that doesn't mean yield has improved. Maybe it has been helped by improved timings for day trips on certain days of the week. Still have a hope they will reconsider but I appreciate that current environment means tough decisions.

V.

[PhilW1981]

Has MAN added a smoking area to T3? I know T1 & 2 both have relatively new, primitive smoking shelters.

[MKY661]

Looks like EasyJet have sneakily dropped Bodrum from Manchester.

[NorthCountryBoy76]

They've never flown Bodrum from MAN, that was a LPL route

[roverman]

MAN is booming. Just like the city's massive recent population growth, and perhaps related, the airport posted a rise of almost 9% in passengers for November against last year. The rolling annual total is now 19.6M. Significantly, both domestic and charter traffic were up, as well as scheduled international. And so even sectors which have traditionally been in decline have bounced back. It's only one month's figures but overall growth at MAN is now firmly established, with 20 million ppa likely by early next year. Aircraft movements are flat, and cargo remains in decline, falling below 100k tonnes for the first time in years.

http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/alldocs/460F505CACD7576780257ACA0052B112/$File/November+12.pdf

[Dct_Mopas]

They've never flown Bodrum from MAN, that was a LPL route

That one is still a LPL route in the summer, but as NCB says has never been one at MAN.

[North West]

MAN is booming. Just like the city's massive recent population growth, and
perhaps related, the airport posted a rise of almost 9% in passengers for
November against last year. The rolling annual total is now 19.6M.
Significantly, both domestic and charter traffic were up, as well as scheduled
international. And so even sectors which have traditionally been in decline have
bounced back. It's only one month's figures but overall growth at MAN is now
firmly established, with 20 million ppa likely by early next year. Aircraft
movements are flat, and cargo remains in decline, falling below 100k tonnes for
the first time in years.


Very unlikely to be anything related to city population. It is still the case that only 25% of passengers are from Greater Manchester, so an even smaller proportion from the city itself. Unless the population change is a significant net inflow into the wider catchment area, its hard to see how it would move the needle. A more rationale assessment would be to look at net passenger growth across the airports in the North West and trade off declines at other airports vs growth at MAN. In the context of a difficult economic climate, it will be interesting to see what the overall net growth is in the North West vs the UK average and other regions.

[TSR2]

A more rationale assessment would be to look at net passenger growth across the airports in the North West and trade off declines at other airports vs growth at MAN.

Rolling Year to October 2012

Manchester +4.4% (+2.6% ATM)

Liverpool -13.3% (-19.8% ATM)

Blackpool -1.3% (+6.7% ATM)

Leeds Bradford +0.6% (-7.8% ATM)

East Midlands -2.6% (+1.8% ATM)

UK Average +0.8% (-0.7% ATM)

Make what you wish of these figures.

[mybrico]

Maybe best to put the MAN pax figures in context, remember they are coming from a high 22.4m in 2006 and this years figures will be little better than 2003.
To judge how well MAN is doing we could ask how much has UK passenger traffic grown since 2003 - the answer is i think from 180m in 2003 to 235m in 2011 - so MAN has lost market share. To have the same share as 2003 the 2011 figure would need to be circa 24m. To get the same share as 2006 it would need to be circa 28m. A good performance but some way to go, best to be realistic. I think my maths are right but stand to be corrected

[LN-KGL]

I will give you an A mybrico. The year end lowpoint of 2010 was 78.7% of the 2006 numbers and since that time MAN has recovered 9 percentage points and is right now at 87.7% of 2006. With this speed of recovery we may well wait 'til 2015 to see 2006 numbers again at MAN. There is one upside for MAN though, it looks like MAN will overtake Stockholm Arlanda on this year's list of European airports (ARN has shown below 1% growth the last three months).

[roverman]

We all know there's a way to go yet to reach the levels of 2006. My boom comment was rather to note that MAN is enjoying a period of sustained Passenger traffic growth and is one of the few UK airports to be in this position. Well above the national average, as the table in a previous post shows. Of course local population will not be the main driver, but the city was the fastest growing major UK city in the first decade of this century, 19% according to the 2011 Census. The conurbation of Greater Manchester saw population growth too. All this after a long period of decline in the last century. It will be one factor.

[BHX5DME]

The only true statistic is MAN % of total UK Pax, and you will see from below 2011 is the same as 1981 !

Best year 1994

8.42% 1981
8.75% 1982
8.52% 1983
8.92% 1984
8.76% 1985
10.14% 1986
10.16% 1987
10.48% 1988
10.55% 1989
10.23% 1990
10.93% 1991
11.36% 1992
11.67% 1993
11.93% 1994
11.40% 1995
10.79% 1996
10.87% 1997
10.92% 1998
10.44% 1999
10.32% 2000
10.65% 2001
9.96% 2002
9.85% 2003
9.81% 2004
9.77% 2005
9.50% 2006
9.15% 2007
8.99% 2008
8.56% 2009
8.31% 2010
8.49% 2011

[mybrico]

Yes BHX5DME, thanks for that interesting work, market share is an accurate measure of real performance and it looks like long term structural decline, at least the decline seems to have been arrested. The 1994 share would 34m today

[chaps2011]

2012 figures should be interesting as they should show quite a swing to MAN
as virtually each month has been above average growth

Chaps

[DomyDom]

Chaps, I agree. I also think that the recent growth has to be seen in the context of the what is happening in the rest of the UK. The market conditions are signficantly different to e.g. the 80s and mid 90s with the overall growth nationally in passenger numbers, a wider choice of airports for PAX and the LCCs. 2012 figures should be encouraging, MAN is definately on the up and has the capacity to and I think will do even better. DomyDom

[Betablockeruk]

BHX5DME,

Can you do the freight yr on yr comparison?

[BHX5DME]

You will find total freight here, you just need to work out MAN's as a %

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data/201209/Table_02_1_Main_Outputs_Of_UK_Airports.pdf

[johnnychips]

The only [my bold] true statistic is MAN % of total UK Pax, and you will see from below 2011 is the same as 1981 !

That really is a sweeping statement. There are a lot more airports around now who have increased their capacity , so obviously MAN's share as a percentage will decrease. The 'true' statistic will be MAN's profitability.

Can't we stop all this willy-waving on PPrune? It used to be MAN-LPL, but now it seems to be MAN-BHX as well.

[Ringwayman]

Moscow is now bookable on the easyJet website if you route in through the "where we fly" section. Fares £40 to £50 one-way but it looks like people have been booking in reasonable numbers as some dates already show fares above £100.

I was surprised to see that their LGW-DME service isn't loaded.

[easyflyer83]

Someone's been on skyscrapercity

[johnnychips]

Sorry if this has been on here before, but has anyone noticed that some MAN-ZRH flights this summer will be operated by Helvetica using F100s. Not bookable on Helvetica's website. Last summer both Swiss jets, I think 319s, were full when I travelled.

- any idea why, or more details of dates
- does Helvetica have business class, as I'm thinking of connecting to BCN in ZRH?

Thanks in anticipation.

[insuindi]

Helvetic operates on a number of LX routes, with wet-lease F100, e.g. out of BHX.

Business class exists, and it's the normal LX cabin service.

[j636]

DL operating A332 to ATL from 30 March.

[BluffOldSeaDog]

Thank the gods for that, that's one tired 767

[GayFriendly]

jonnychips Helvetic operate the BHX-ZRH service on behalf of LX and offer full LX service on board. They do not operate flights in their own right (unlike BRS-ZRH) and therefore only bookable with LX flight numbers on LX website. I ahve used them from BHX on numerous occasions to connect with mainline LX at ZRH and never had a problem. I suppose the only worrying thing is that LX don't seem very interested in using their own metal into BHX and now MAN although that probably bothers the spotters more tha those who actually fly the route!

[OltonPete]

The summer 2013 schedules are very volatile at present and whether Helvetic turn up is anyones guess. On another thread it states OLT have lost the Swiss contract and that might alter matters although to be fair BHX's OLT always ended with the start of the summer schedules - back to a RJ100.

An F100 would be quite a loss of seats but looking brighter elsewhere with the Delta A332 to Atlanta and TAP going 10 weekly from June as well as the increases on Turkish. The US Air shows as the A333 again in June but the American ORD a 757.

I don't remember the press release about TAP but I can't say I follow all the goings on at Manchester but I am surprised that one slipped past me.

Pete

[johnnychips]

Gay friendly wrote:

Helvetic
jonnychips Helvetic operate the BHX-ZRH service on behalf of LX and offer full LX service on board. They do not operate flights in their own right (unlike BRS-ZRH) and therefore only bookable with LX flight numbers on LX website. I ahve used them from BHX on numerous occasions to connect with mainline LX at ZRH and never had a problem. I suppose the only worrying thing is that LX don't seem very interested in using their own metal into BHX and now MAN although that probably bothers the spotters more tha those who actually fly the route!

Thanks for the explanation why I can't find it on Helvetic's website. The annoying thing is that there used to be an early-ish morning flight at about 0900 last year which connected to a BCN flight getting you there by 1415. Business class was reasonably priced and a bit of a treat to start and finish the holiday. This flight either no longer exists, does not connect or is slower - I haven't looked yet.

So I thought I'd 'slum' it with Ryanair to Girona from Donny (only joking used this route five times return, no problem), until I saw the flight back from Girona is at some ungodly hour in the morning, meaning I'd have to leave my hotel at about 0300.

So I'll have to have a good look at other airlines from MAN. Unfortunately the direct Monarch flight is just slightly too early to connect with the earliest train from Donny.

Olton Pete wrote:


The summer 2013 schedules are very volatile at present and whether Helvetic turn up is anyone,s guess.

So do you think I should hang on for a bit?

[chaps2011]

This week the early flight has varied from a F100 to an A321 so it`s up to you
as at present they are very flexible

Chaps

[Mr A Tis]

The morning LX flight to ZRH remains at 0840 ( for summer), however this does not connect well to BCN, about 5 hour connection. The 0840 is planned for Helvetic F100 ops. The F100s are fairly elderley, but very comfortable, & the crew offer the same LX service.
In the past I have done MAN-BCN with BA, LX , LH & KL. KLM probably have the most / best connections. BA has been my worst connecting experience.
Numerous times, KLM have been cheaper than Monarch.
Monarch & Jet 2 offer direct flights (sometimes at silly prices) but timings are not always what you want.
Maybe we might get Veuling in one day, offering a later departure and/or return.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

So I'll have to have a good look at other airlines from MAN. Unfortunately the direct Monarch flight is just slightly too early to connect with the earliest train from Donny

How about Jet2, they're fairly early from MAN, don't know how they compare to MON's timings, or if you're coming over from Donny what about looking at flights from Leeds Bradford?

[MANFlyer]

I presume those saying that pax aren't bothered if a Helvetic F100 turns up instead of a LX Airbus are flying in Y and not J. The F100's are quite a step down from the LX metal and to say Helvetic crew are as good as Swiss crew also mystifies me. Granted it's only a short hop, but there is a world of difference between the two. I do the route regularly.

I agree with the comment about the competitive J fares on LX ex-MAN having disappeared. I am afraid this happened shortly after LH announced they were dropping some of their cheaper short haul J fares. I've started having to fly BA more....:eek:

[BasilBush]

In some ways Y on a F100 is better than on an A319/320. If there are two of you travelling you can sit on the 2 side and avoid the usual squabble over who has to take a middle seat!

Anecdotally LX seem to be going for yield as opposed to volume. European connections through ZRH used to be very competitively priced - generally lower than other indirect routings - but now seem to be higher. And some of the long haul J class bargains also seem to have gone.

[PhilW1981]

I've seen on BHX thread there is talk of Emirates upgrading to a 2nd daily A380. Anyone knowhow likely this is, which flight would be upgraded (I'd much prefer the morning departure) and any timescales. I understand Emirates are due to take delivery of 2 more A380's next week.