MANCHESTER - 9

[ManofMan]

Understand that Manchester were as helpful as ever again last night/this morning in refusing to handle diversions despite many requests... Birmingham and Newcastle seemed to manage.

[Ringwayman]

try the handling agents and not the airport for last night's decision.

[ManofMan]

Whatever the reason, Manchester now has a reputation, and its just getting worse.

[OltonPete]

Up until midnight Manchester had more diversions than BHX.

I noted two Liverpool Ryanair flights divert and a Thomas Cook from East Mids plus a DHL 767. BHX had one Eastern and one Ryanair from EMA with another Ryanair diverted in just before 1am

Pete

[Leftofcentre2009]

The only BACF flights into MAN this year are a few ad-hoc flights to IBZ, FAO, PMI and AGP on behalf of TCX during May.

TCX (Thomas Cook) are chartering BA (cityflyer or not) planes?????

Blimey. Bet that aint cheap!

[LAX_LHR]

TCX (Thomas Cook) are chartering BA (cityflyer or not) planes?????

I know, I was a bit shocked too! Not exactly the largest planes they could have hired either!

[Leftofcentre2009]

i do like the EMBs though.

when visiting mi familia in the Balearics i always fly with them from LCY.

I like to think ive reached a stage in my life where FR is below me :E

[goldeneye]

Its Thomas Cook Holidays not TCX that's chartering the BACF aircraft. They have used BACF out of GLA, ABZ & EDI on routes to Spain and Portugal for the last few years inc this year in addition to some BE charters - So it must be worth it.

[j636]

Anyone know whats happening with DY service to OSL. Not loaded past October but more less every other route from OSL is. MAN-ARN drops from 4 to 3 weekly. Same for SVG but I expect that may be a seasonal route.

Don't see them considering a move for OSL down the road considering the same comp. What are loads like?

[LAX_LHR]

Some good words from Qantas, MAN now their 2nd largest market in Europe after LHR:

The alliance goes live next week, but early booking data is amazing. Bookings into Milan are 17 times higher than they were a year ago. Bookings into Barcelona are 12 times higher. Manchester has come from nowhere to be the second-biggest destination in the expanded European destination schedule

Read more: ACCC Gives Final Go-Ahead for Global Airline Deal (http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-will-fly-high-under-emirates-deal-20130327-2gtzx.html#ixzz2Oig3fOsL)

[roverman]

No doubt due to the EK tie-up. EK have 1200 seats a day out of MAN, a good number of whom will travel on to Australia.Presumably all of these people now count as Qantas passengers. Good news for Qantas but probably not new passengers for MAN. Sadly, apart from ther occasional charter the chances of seeing a QF tail at MAN must be nearer to absolute zero than -273 Celsius. How different 30 years ago when QF9 arrive at MAN on 1st April 1983.

[LAX_LHR]

I agree, no chance of seeing a regular QF aircraft here, but, I thought the comparison between the BA and EK days is quite stark.

[LAX_LHR]

Spoke to someone at Norwegian regarding Manchester this winter.

Schedules are still being finalised, and the following should be bookable soon:

Oslo will be 4 weekly, as per current schedule. To be loaded in next few weeks

Stavanger will also remain at 2 weekly, and again will be loaded in next few weeks

Stockholm currently loaded at 3 weekly, but it is expected to be 5 weekly this winter

One new destination added. Hinted at 3 weekly Helsinki, but nothing concrete as to the destination.

It is still expected that CPH will move from LPL to MAN for the summer 2014 schedule, but understandably everything regarding that is tight lipped and nothing official has been said regarding it.

[LN-KGL]

You may have to wait more than one year for a move from LPL to MAN. The reduced changes at CPH will be above 50% for three years.

[LAX_LHR]

Just going off what my source has told me. I suppose its just one of those wait and see scenarios.

No concrete evidence to suggest a move, but as we know Norwegian keep all cards close to their chest.

[LAX_LHR]

Easyjet W13 schedule can be viewed online now.

Nothing exciting to report, but, plenty of gaps for new routes if they intend to keep 8 aircraft busy. Currently the schedule seems to accommodate 8 aircraft on 2 days only so far, but there has not been a winter yet that easyjet have not introduced a new route to Manchester, so fingers crossed.

Main notes:

BFS has 3 daily flights Mon, Thu, Fri and Sun
DME changes to Mon, Wed, Fri and Sun flights
CPH remains at 9 weekly after its summer increase
GVA has 3 flights on Sat, double daily every other day bar Tues
TLV goes 3 weekly on Mon, Tue and Thu
BSL increases to 5 weekly with flights on Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat and Sun
AYT/JMK/JTR/Thessaloniki finish in September and November.
SXF increases to daily (no doubt an effect of LH pulling TXL)

Im sure we will see more updates over the next few weeks.

[LAX_LHR]

And just as Easyjet increase MAN-TLV, Jet2 are to pull the route.

Last bookable flight is 4th October. Shame its going, they have been on the route a few years now, obviously not room for 2 on this route.

[LAX_LHR]

Some routes new according to the ACL:

-Germania to base an A319 from the 8th May. Apparently operating for Olympic however nothing to suggest Germania are used on the Olympic site.

-JAF Belgium to operate a Palma flight on B737-700 every Thu from May to Sept.

-Albastar to run a weekly Palma flight on B737-400 every Saturday May-Sept

-It says Aegean to run a Tuesday Heraklion in place of the Saturday Keffalonia. However this is a mistake as the Sat EFL is still bookable and a Tuesday HER is not. Also, an email to Aegean came back with them saying they have no intention of running this flight.

-Freebird is mentioned, but only one flight whereas there are actually 3.

-Travel Service reported to be running a TFS flight, however there will be 2xB737 based and report misses the many Greek charters that are bookable on Olympic.

-SN Brussels to use A319 on nightstop service

-TCX to run LAS and SFB as scheduled flights (seems to be a market TCX are going for as the new winter BGI/ANU/UVF flights are also scheduled)

All viewable on:

Airport Coordination Limited - Reports/Statistics - Manchester Airport (http://www.acl-uk.org/reportsStatistics.aspx?id=98&subjectId=45)

Choose S13 report.

[LAX_LHR]

JAF Belgium flights:

JAF4771 PMI 1000 MAN 1145
JAF4772 MAN 1240 PMI 1620

B737-700 every Thursday.

[MKY661]

Here are the terminals for the charter airlines:

Terminal 1:
AlbaStar

Terminal 2:
Avion Express
Germania
Jetairfly

Terminal 3:
Travel Service (To be confirmed)

[Scottie Dog]

Is it just my imagination or is this the first year that ACL have actually made the Report available in advance of the start of the season?

A few years ago I did have access to the reports however my contacts then moved on and so I was unable to get hold of the files. I did check on the ACL site, but the reports only seemed to be available on an historic basis.

Scottie Dog

[spannersatcx]

it does say CX - Cathay Pacific Cargo - Increase from three to four per week to HKG with B747-400F, Weds, Thu and two on Sundays. Slots
are held for a fifth service from September.

which is wrong, its 3 flts a week, only 1 flt on a Sunday.

[MAN777]

Heard a whisper that car parking is to be extended on the aircraft stands of the west apron, in particular the cargo stands, is there any truth in this ?

[MKY661]

Heard a whisper that car parking is to be extended on the aircraft stands of the west apron, in particular the cargo stands, is there any truth in this ?

Not sure. Wouldn't think so, but if they do then it is likely because they need to put more car parking spaces in because they are getting rid of the T1 & T3 Long Stay Car Park because of the Airport City Project.

[LAX_LHR]

Heard a whisper that car parking is to be extended on the aircraft stands of the west apron, in particular the cargo stands, is there any truth in this ?

Yep it true going off images seen elsewhere.

It seems MAN is about to have the potential to be one of the busiest summers in a long time (given the number of new routes, upgrades and added frequencies, not to mention the most foreign charter ops Ive seen in a long time), with carriers adding more based aircraft and poised to add even more next summer, so, whats the most logical thing to do..... that's right take away more, and may I add, needed, parking stands.

Genius :ugh:

Rather than scrounge for land off the whole reason you are an airport, why not build a multi-storey car park on the many acres of land you just got permission to build on? Oh no, that's too sensible.
While you are at it, taking aircraft stands from an airport for car parking, why not just remove all the jetties and call yourself Trafford Centre MK2 :ugh:

[chaps2011]

Planning permission! you cannot just change land usage at the drop of a hat
as for building a muli storey very unlikely council will just give permission and then have a car park up in a jiff No chance!

Chaps

[LAX_LHR]

Planning permission! you cannot just change land usage at the drop of a hat

It wouldn't be a huge change actually. Both Airport City and the logistics hub have permissions for car parking. All you are doing is giving a provision for more.

as for building a multi storey very unlikely council will just give permission and then have a car park up in a jiff No chance

And any reason for that conclusion, considering quite a large building site is about to be formed in the airport vicinity. Im pretty sure if they have allowed all this building work then a MSCP within the airport boundary is going to be a miniscule issue :ugh:

[chaps2011]

Airport City and a car park for the passengers are a totally different thing
and why would you put a car park up where all the jobs are to be created


Chaps

[LN-KGL]

Because MAN earn more money on parking cars than parked aircraft

[Ex Cargo Clown]

Anyone with sense would just stick their car in Heald Green on a side road and get the train in.

[LAX_LHR]

Airport City and a car park for the passengers are a totally different thing and why would you put a car park up where all the jobs are to be created

You are missing the point completely, but never mind.

[North West]

The point being that the people running the place are closer to the detail and have a better idea of the revenue model than you do.

[chaps2011]

Please tell me more LAX_LHR and anyway from what I can see this is only
at stop gap and as soon as traffic demands it will go back to it`s proper use, T1 multi-storey is well past it`s best by date and was told that about 10 years ago
as it was an off the shelf one but has been modified repaired numerous times.
I`m sure there are plans for car parking that will be revealed when the time is right and no I don`t know anything

Chaps

[LAX_LHR]

from what I can see this is only a stop gap and as soon as traffic
demands it will go back to it`s proper use

It doesn't seem like a stop gap, I mean, how long have the other stands been out of action? Without trawling through years of posts they have got to have been used for car parking for at least 2 years now.

Please tell me more LAX_LHR

I said you were missing the point because, your first argument was that they wouldn't get planning permission. I pointed out that given they have just been granted permission to build a large office complex and logistics hub, I hardly think a MSCP on their own land is suddenly going to become the largest planning battle in history.
You then used the excuse of basically no room as the airport city is a separate development and its needed space for jobs. Considering the extent of the landscaping, it seems space is no a huge issue. In fact, the number of proposed jobs vs car parking for AC, wouldn't be surprised if they needed even more space for the automobile.

At the end of the day, they do make more money on car parking than aircraft stands, that is not what I was debating, not even close. I have no idea about the financial implications of things like car parks nor do I pretend to.
My argument is, the cars are there for 1 thing, the airport. If you start taking more and more away from the reason the cars are there, then surely there comes a point when the number of cars stagnates.

Now, the number of stands at MAN for the typical day operation are not an issue. Its in, between 25 mins and 5 hours on the ground, then out again for the aircraft.

The issue comes at for the based airlines. Easyjet have made no secret MAN will continue to expand, Ryanair have added 1 more aircraft this year than they intended to, and if these aircraft remain for the W13/14 season, then they have to jostle for space with the likes of Thomson and Thomas cook who seemed to have a lot of aircraft on the ground at any 1 stage this winter, as well as the Jet2 static display team.

Where can MAN put these aircraft? Well, the answer is under 1000 cars on the apron it seems.

[chaps2011]

But the Airport city is a totally different kettle of fish is has government money
and they are run as a totally separate entity , have you ever tried to get planning permission or change it, it is never easy or quick unless the council want it to happen. Airport City is far to important to change now and work is due to start in next couple of weeks on the infastructure. If any change was to be made now it would be at a large cost as all the contracts will be in place.

Chaps

[LAX_LHR]

Never mind. Im too tired and life is too short to go round in circles. Good night.

[chaps2011]

Perhaps lol! By the way I do agree with most things you say but not on this occasion, but that is life and if everybody agreed about everything life would be very boring and we would not need any forums
Until the next time bon soir

Chaps

[Suzeman]

The Airport used to have delegated powers where planning permission was not required for certain minor developments etc. Can't remember what the technical term is now and not sure whether it still applies? For example tenants wanting to put up signs had to get permission from the Airport Company, not the local planning authority.

I'm surprised that more stands are to be used for car parking, especially as LAX says, there have been many stands in use over the winter with aircraft parked up. And even when the aircraft are working in the summer, there are a lot of aircraft in overnight.

But we don't have all the information, so I'm sure there is logic to this. It's something where the apron can revert to it's proper use relatively quickly in a matter of a few weeks or months I expect.

Either they are expecting a higher demand for parking, or is it that some of the existing spaces are being lost, maybe due to the airport city construction starting? Anyone know?

[LAX_LHR]

By the way I do agree with most things you say but not on this occasion

I know. Maybe Im not explaining myself properly I don't know.

I think we can agree that a more permanent solution to the parking situation is needed, and from my angle, a MSCP is the best option as you can double, triple and more the size of your parking needs with the same footprint as just a surface car park.

Im not saying MAG is wrong to supply more car parking, they have obviously played with their abacus and it works out, but surely there are better places to use rather than aircraft stands.
Stands have been pretty much fully utilised this winter as it was, and now with an even busier summer approaching, they have just magnified the situation.

[LAX_LHR]

In other news, yet another foreign charter operator to add to the ever growing list:

OBS3417 TFS 0615 MAN 1030
OBS3418 MAN 1335 TFS 1755

A320 every Sunday.

Quite an extensive list now.

[lbalad]

That's unusual a 3 hour turn around,any particular reason for it?.

[LAX_LHR]

Im not sure the reason for such a long turn, especially being jut an A320, but, needless to say there should be little excuse for a delay leaving MAN.

[LAX_LHR]

Are the Spanish resort hey-days coming back?

Just fiddling about with various sites, and noticed there are no less than 12 flights to Palma on Saturdays this summer! There are also up to 5 flights on other days of the week too.

Certainly spoiled for choice.

[Mr A Tis]

Seems some chaos at MAN as T1 is apparently closed at the moment.

[ManofMan]

Closed following a security scare.

[ManofMan]

Next Info @ 1300 hrs

[MKY661]

Closed following a security scare.

Uh Oh. Lets just hope this wasn't an April Fools joke and hope everything is OK :(

[Suzeman]

More news here

BBC News - 'Suspect package' closes Manchester Airport terminal (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-21993700)

Terminal One has now re-opened and the evacuation lifted after bomb disposal experts were called to Manchester Airport when a suspicious package was spotted around 8.15am on Monday morning - Manchester Evening News (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/terminal-one-now-re-opened-evacuation-2492336)

T1 now open but severe delays to departures still from this Terminal

[seahawks]

If you refer to the last Annual Results MAG are making a lot of money from car parking. Use of aircraft stands for valet parked vehicles will mean a lot of income for little investment, and is reversible for 2014 if necessary.

The problems will start when outbound flights are delayed for any reason and there are no remotes available, the taxiway system will quickly become gridlocked.

Personally I am not a fan of this idea as I think the risks are too great but if I was a beancounter...

[getonittt]

In other news, yet another foreign charter operator to add to the ever growing list:

OBS3417 TFS 0615 MAN 1030
OBS3418 MAN 1335 TFS 1755

A320 every Sunday.

Quite an extensive list now


This will not be happening unless orizonia get their aircraft back. :confused:

[LAX_LHR]

This will not be happening unless orizonia get their aircraft back.


Its Orzonia Portugal, a few aircraft were transferred over to the Portuguese AOC when the Spanish arm shut up shop.

[LAX_LHR]

Norwegian to Oslo now bookable for the winter season. Mon and fri morning and Wed evening.

Stavanger also bookable on Mon/fri mornings.

[LN-KGL]

Only DY tickets for flights earlier than 31 January 2014 are now for sale.

[LAX_LHR]

Only DY tickets for flights earlier than 31 January 2014 are now for sale.



Yes but winter 2013 season starts October 26th to which Oslo and Stavanger were not bookable, but now bookable past Oct 26th so therefore for sale for the winter 2013 season....

[nigel osborne]

LAX-LHR. Re extensive charter list.

Think we also have to remember that MAN are loosing fair number of based units and plane size reductions from TCX,TOM to name just two.

As a spotter Im all for more foreign charters over a based uk unit though. :)

Nigel

[LAX_LHR]

TOM based has not altered much to be honest. Some B757 replaced with B737 and A321 gone, abut they had to be replaced at some point.

TCX remains at 9 which was same as last year, and for the low costs, based unit count has gone up by 5. (actually gone up by 9 this summer as QS basing 2 B767, Germania basing 1 A319 and Avon Express basing 1 A320.)

Still a lot based, along with the extra charters, means one busy summer.

[OltonPete]

LAX_LHR

What is the TCX & TOM 757 count this year compared to last. The link you provided the other day is excellent very but bit vague re TOM & TCX other than what you have stated that the base count has remained the same.

Also has there been much movement with Monarch between IT and schedule or is that roughly the same?

I have noticed that the Swiss is still 2 x F100 plus one Airbus in the week for most of the summer and Saturday evening in May and June is not showing, I assume that is down to ZRH charges?


Pete

[chaps2011]

TCX is 1x A320, 2x A332, 3x B752, 3x B76W
I think TOM is 13 but not sure of breakdown

Chaps

[MKY661]

Monarch is 2x A300, 6x A321, 1x A332 and 1x B752
Jet2 is 4x B733, 5x B738 and 4x B752
EasyJet has 8 based aircraft, think its 2x A319 and 6x A320 but not 100% sure on that one
Ryanair is 7x B738
Virgin Atlantic is the usual 1x A332 and 1x B744
No Idea what Flybe is

[LAX_LHR]

Ryanair is 6 based with a large amount of non based flights.

Easyjet is 5 A320 and 3 A319 and only a few non based flights.

A correction to an earlier post as it seems my finger slipped, Travel Service (QS) is 2x B737 and not the B767 as I posted.

Flybe is something like 9 or 10 based, but I'm not 100%.

[LAX_LHR]

Was just reading an internal piece regarding the Lufthansa-Air Livery deal.

All the adhesive transfers are still produced in Hamburg, and then shipped to MAN in advance of an aircraft arriving, and whilst the aircraft is on for paint, a member of LH Technik are based at Air Livery and oversee the project.

Apparently, Lufthansa are working with Air Livery to make the MAN hangar 'A380 ready'. Whilst they do not need to be repainted yet, they are looking ahead to the time when they will need such work.

Seems the deal is a permanent one!

[nigel osborne]

LAX-LHR.. Re Air Livery A380.

An A380 tail height is almost 20 feet higher than a 747, am intrigued to know if the hangar has that sort of height ?

perhaps there is enough room to somehow cut a notch out the middle top of the hangar as other airports have done ?

Nigel

[LAX_LHR]

Hi Nigel.

Im not sure what the plan is, the small extract is the extent of my knowledge on the matter at the moment.

I think it needs the whole roof at 'the doors' to be raised, as it needs the scaffold rigs to be able to be put alongside the tail.

Its a large amount of modifications which seems a lot for 1 aircraft type, but I suppose a few paint hangars around the world need to be modified eventually otherwise there will be nowhere to paint them in the future, unless they take them back to airbus?

[Skipness One Echo]

BA spent a fair bit on modifying two hangars at LHR in a similar way, however each was wfu for a period necessitating B744s heading off to Singapore for maintenance.

[LAX_LHR]

Yes BA did have some work done for the maintenance hangars, which is very similar to what is needed at MAN.

However they are another operator who do not have a hangar for painting big enough for the whalejet, just one for maintenance, so another reason the money spent at MAN could be worthwhile if Air Livery could pick up the contract.

[OltonPete]

Thank you for all the replies.

I was trying to get a feel for the 2013 capacity compared to 2012 for IT especially Thomson and Thomas Cook. I have gleaned some information from various threads but it seems in general Thomson have less seats due to the 757 dropping to 221 seats and more 738's in place of the 757/321. This seems to have happened across all the main bases (GLA, MAN, BHX, EMA) although I believe utilisation has increased.

Thomas Cook despite much negative publicity at times seems to have held up at most bases although I belive at least three 757's have left over the winter so some seat loses must have occurred even when considering the aircraft leased in this summer.

Flybe

Five based at Manchester which in terms of units is small compared to BHD, SOU & BHX and even EDI will overtake it soon but due to the hub and spoke system in place it was actually the busiest in terms of flights but not sure if that is the same now.

Pete

[LAX_LHR]

Thomas Cook despite much negative publicity at times seems to have held up at most bases although I belive at least three 757's have left over the winter so some seat loses must have occurred even when considering the aircraft leased in this summer.

Thomas Cook seem to be trying a new approach now, at least at MAN. They have codeshared with Condor and moving BGI/SFB/ANU/LAS and UVF flights over to a 'scheduled' format, in a similar way to Condor.

Hopefully this will prove popular and they look to other destinations for this format.

I have gleaned some information from various threads but it seems in general Thomson have less seats due to the 757 dropping to 221 seats and more 738's in place of the 757/321

I think it is a pattern we have to get used to. The B757's are no spring chickens and the B737 seems to be the aircraft of choice for Thomson to replace the B757 fleet.
Jet2 seem to be going down a similar path where B737-800's have replaced B757's, noticed most on MAN-TLV which used to be a B757 route but now almost always the B737-800 these days.

Five based at Manchester which in terms of units is small

That is very surprising, I always thought it was at least 8 (4 DH8 2 E95 and 2 E170).
As you say, obviously based elsewhere, but, if the number of flights is high then its all by-the-by.

[OltonPete]

LAX_LHR

The based operation in the week (first out in the morning)

195 - CDG
175 - CDG
175- BHD (new swapping with DUS)
Q400- ABZ
Q400 - DUS

However early morning inbounds in the week are: -

ABZ, INV, EDI, GLA, BHD, IOM, SOU, EXT & NWI*

*D328

INV is now a 175

Pete

[Skipness One Echo]

so another reason the money spent at MAN could be worthwhile if Air Livery could pick up the contract.
Wasn't the Air Livery hangar built for BA in the first place then discraded before opening? Another balls up at MAN for Big Airways.

[LAX_LHR]

Wasn't the Air Livery hangar built for BA in the first place then discraded before opening

Certainly was. The only time I remember it being used was to fix a Dragonair B747 when it scraped the engines on the runway during landing. (Im sure it was used other than that time, but its the only one I remember.)

[chaps2011]

Yes it sat empty for quite a while with just a few emergency repairs by various operators done on a rent by the hour basis

Chaps

[nigel osborne]

LAX-LHR ,

Thanks for the update, getting a large contract from LH is great news and ifthey want to chip in to modify the hangar for an A380 all the better.

At BHX the huge MAEL 2 Bay 77W/747/787 hangar is going up fast, although don't think it will get an A380 in re height, but I stand to be corrected.

Nice to see the regional airports getting good upgrades of World class hangar facilities.

Nigel

[rampman]

The air livery hangar is to narrow and to low to take a A380 i have put many a 747 in that hanger and they only just fit they will have to do a lot of mod work on that hanger to make it ready but where will the space come from!

BA used it for many years before they pulled out they were still paying for it whilst it was empty. cathy and dragon air used it a few times. but the hanger was always op ready as it was also where the morge was (don't know if it still is) for a major insident.

:ok: rampman

[chaps2011]

Don`t ever remember any BA aircraft in hangar on a regular basis after the old
BA hangar was pulled down which from memory was only just big enough to
put 2 1-11s in fully or B737 tail out as it was an old second world war building.
Must dig out my old photos

Chaps

[spannersatcx]

http://www.aviationexplorer.com/pics/airbus_a380_and_boeing_747_dimensions.gif whose Cathy?

[LAX_LHR]

A very interesting comment about easyjet MAN-DME, hinting that the yield is higher from MAN than LGW to DME:



Watkins: A little bird tells me that the yields from here to Moscow are better than those being achieved in London?

Spratt: Are they? I couldn’t possibly comment on actual figures, but it does
makes sense, as London to Moscow is a far more competitive market than what we face up here, where we are the only airline serving the route direct


Some other good tidbits in the article, including the indication that expansion at MAN is far from done, and that there could be more flights to Russia.

30 Second Interview: easyJet Head of Sales UK, Ruth Spratt has a slice of route launch cake with anna.aero | anna.aero (http://www.anna.aero/2013/04/04/30-second-interview-easyjet-head-of-sales-uk-ruth-spratt-has-a-slice-of-route-launch-cake-with-anna-aero/)

[TURIN]

The BA Hangar at MAN was used for several years by BA for major 737 maintenance of the MAN based fleet. It was also a "centre of excellence" for the A319s. The dedicated JFK 767 was also serviced there along with plenty of ad hoc 3rd party casualty work. At its peak before it closed over 170 engineering staff were working there and across the ramp. There are 16 left.


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[ballyctid]

British Regional also used it on an AD HOC basis for tech aircraft prior to taking over the old Dan Air hangar. I worked on a few Embraers in there now and again.

[fjencl]

Which holiday companies are going to be using Avion express.

[LAX_LHR]

Seems MAN can look forward to yet another new link to Antigua:

Meanwhile, the Tourism minister said his team is in discussions with an airline to get direct flights out of Manchester, England.


Although he did not disclose which airline , he said they hope to confirm this soon and put it on the schedule

Read more: American Eagle Flights to be Covered | CARIBARENA ANTIGUA (http://www.caribarena.com/antigua/tourism/tourism-news/103577-american-eagle-flights-to-be-covered.html#ixzz2PZxZxUA0)

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hi LAX_LHR,

I believe you may have answered your own question regarding Antigua flights in your earlier posting about Thomas Cook Airlines. If the airline does re-designate its MAN-ANU service as scheduled, then it fits the bill as the operator referenced in the tourism article.

[LAX_LHR]

Shed.

I did think it was the TCX flight at first, but, that flight has been up for sale for over 2 months now, and the article I linked was dated today, where the quote says it is yet to be confirmed.

I don't see realistically who else it could be however, Virgin seems to be the only other possibility in my eyes, but given the VS beach fleet is being reduced and MAN-LAS being made seasonal as a result, Id say unlikely.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

That hanger wasn't built 4 BA it was originally FLS, BA did take over it, and yes BNWH spent a lot of time in it

[Sholto Douglas]

Wrong I'm afraid. The FLS hangar is now the Thomas Cook Engineering one.

[TURIN]

Excargoclown.
I think you are confusing the two sheds.
Air Livery hangar was built for and used by BA.
Thomas Cook hangar was originally Qualitair's, then FLS, then MyTravel/Thomas Cook.



Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[spannersatcx]

You missed out Ffv Aerotech.:eek:

[goldeneye]

The TCX flights to BGI, ANU and UVF will be sold as a code-share service with Condor and carry both TCX and DE's flight number. The same as this Summers flights to SFB and LAS. It allows the flights to be booked as one way and returns via a GDS.

[mickyman]

Perhaps Air Livery will rent out space in the Thomas Cook hangar as and when - for A380's ?

MM

[LAX_LHR]

I see silly season is upon us:


Bosses say that over a million passengers from Greater Manchester 'betrayed' them last year to fly from the likes of Liverpool and also Birmingham airports

Quite a strong choice of words, and ones I do not agree with in any shape or form.

The airline industry is a consumers market. Its about choice, flexibility, price and what best suits your needs. Just because LPL or BHX meets your needs more for that particular flight does not mean the consumer has betrayed you.

Im all for trying to increase your market, but saying that your target customers are betraying you, not the way to go Im afraid.

Seems a new peak of rivalry has come about. After the new LPL CEO stated that 'Norwegian saw that we could do it better' (funny considering MAN served by Norwegian longer and also got a new service, so obviously cannot do it that much better), and now this by MAN, looks like things are going to get interesting.

Link to article:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....unches-2573056 (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/air-raid-manchester-airport-launches-2573056)

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Provocative statements make good headlines. Airports are learning how to attract media attention in the same way high profile airline bosses have been doing for years. And remember the old Oasis / Blur type 'rivalry'? A very successful marketing strategy keeping both in the headlines. I'm sure MAN & LPL would both be delighted to enjoy contrived daily bust-ups via the media.

[BHX5DME]

MAG should turn that statement around and tell us how many pax from the BHX catchment area fly from MAN every year !

[MAN777]

I feel "betrayed" is also a bit strong.

I use MAN as much as possible and have done for many years but I will give a recent example where I "betrayed MAN" and headed for LPL

Simply choice.

Need to go to Lisbon for a weeks course, options TAP from MAN or Easyjet LPL.

Winner, Easyjet as their times allow me to come home on friday after the course. To remain loyal to MAN I would have had to pay for an extra nights accommodation and come back saturday, so a no brainer really, sorry MAG will try to do better next time :rolleyes:

Answer is get as many double daily schedules (am pm)to the main European hubs and you will retain my loyalty. Not MAGs decision but it would work for me.

[LAX_LHR]

Seems the Egyptair flights are seasonal as they are not bookable past October.

[SWBKCB]

Excargoclown.
I think you are confusing the two sheds.
Air Livery hangar was built for and used by BA.
Thomas Cook hangar was originally Qualitair's, then FLS, then MyTravel/Thomas Cook.


Was what is now the Thomas Cook hangar originally built for ATEL - Aviation Traders (Engineering) Ltd?

[roverman]

T'angar was built originally for Qualitair in 1989. They morphed into FFV Aerotech et al. If we are delving into history then previous to that the site was occupied by the famous Fairey Aviation hangar, from which the area gets its popular name 'Fairey's Apron' (officially the Western Maintenance Area).

A380s will not fit along the link into the WMA, probably won't clear the sliding gates and would be very tight to manoeuvre around, even if they could be made to fit in the Air Livery hangar, which is doubtful.

On a separate note Stands 60/61 are being adapted into a 'super MARS' layout which can take an A380 down the centre. To be numbered 61L, 61 and 61R. The '60' designation will no longer be assigned to a current stand. This gives MAN another A380 remote stand as well as 62. Just in time for BA's A380s fleet!

[TURIN]

You missed out Ffv Aerotech.

I must be getting old. Forgot about them. :O

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Thomas Cook Airlines launches new flights from Manchester | Travelbite (http://www.travelbite.co.uk/travel-news/2013/04/10/thomas-cook-airlines-launches-new-flights-from-manchester)

Thomas Cook Airlines has today announced a range of new flights to the Caribbean from Manchester Airport.

The new Manchester routes on offer are the only flights available to holidaymakers outside London to St Lucia and Antigua and Thomas Cook Airlines is one of only a handful of airlines flying to Barbados.

Commencing Sunday November 10th 2013, the weekly Manchester-St Lucia-Barbados flight will operate on a specifically configured Boeing A330 aircraft, with the additional Manchester-Antigua-Barbados flight operating from Thursday December 19th.

Flights will depart late morning from Manchester, allowing travellers to benefit from a wide range of connections from regional airports across the UK.

[LAX_LHR]

I will be interested to see what this looks like lol


flight will operate on a specifically configured Boeing A330 aircraft

[mizake the mizzen]

some more info:


Thomas Cook Airlines UK in Winter2013/14 season is introducing new connections from Manchester to the Caribbean,with service to Antigua, Barbados and St. Lucia, on board 325-seater A330-200aircraft. Planned operation as follow.

Manchester – Antigua –Barbados – Manchester eff 19DEC13 1 weekly
MT816/DE086 MAN1115 – 1600ANU1700 – 1805BGI 332 4
MT817/DE087 ANU1700 – 1805BGI1935 – 0805+1MAN 332 4

Manchester – St. Lucia –Barbados – Manchester eff 10NOV13 1 weekly
MT854/DE084 MAN1115 – 1610UVF1710 – 1750 332 7
MT855/DE085 UVF1710 – 1750BGI1940 – 0810+1MAN 332 7

Is 325Y the normal config of the TCX330 fleet?

[zjc123]

Would this be the A330's without seat back IFE?

Carn't see how this will take off if they are not planning on offering IFE in a time in which nearly all airlines offer this on long haul services.

ZJC

[FR-]

IFE bring your own. Would rather play on my ipad anyday then watch an out dated movie.

fr-

[nigel osborne]

ZJC123.

Seatplans.com ..state TCX long haul 332s do have 325 seats and do have seat back TVs.Passengers will be noted in advance if they are not working/in use ?

I assume the 332s don't sit around doing nothing, so what has been chopped to accomadate these extra flights or have they got an extra plane now ?

Nigel

[rutankrd]

TCX are recovering G-WWDM from its desert sabbatical for these routes.

A frame quite familiar with these routes !

[BHX5DME]

http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/alldocs/B2FEB76E5EFAEEB180257B4900487CEE/$File/March+13.pdf

[LAX_LHR]

The Germania flights at Manchester have been added by Olympic, and seem to replace Travel Service for Many.

Travel Service to still have 2 based. One will cover Jet2 flights, the other will operate some flights and be on call for ad hoc charter work.

Germania flights:

Corfu:
Monday x2 flights. One leaves at 0830, other at 1945

Heraklion:
Tuesday at 1845 and Friday at 1935

Rhodes:
Wednesday x2 flights. One leaves at 0900 other at 1930

Zante:
Thursday at 0840 and Sunday at 2330

Larnaca:
Sunday at 0930

Skiathos:
Friday at 0715

Obviously a lot of gaps, particularly Tuesday morning, Thursday afternoon and no flights on Saturday, but I was informed that there will be flights to Pristina on a Saturday, but cannot find them at present.

[barry lloyd]

but I was informed that there will be flights to Pristina on a Saturday, but cannot find them at present.

Pristina? I think you mean Preveza, which is in Greece and a more likely holiday destination than Pristina...

[LAX_LHR]

Pristina? I think you mean Preveza, which is in Greece and
a more likely holiday destination than Pristina...

No Pristina. Apparently there is a demand for flights from the North. Germania are doing 1-2 weekly flights from LGW-PRN, one of which is also a Saturday so not beyond the realms of possibility.

[barry lloyd]

Quote:



Pristina? I think you mean Preveza, which is in Greece and
a more likely holiday destination than Pristina...



No Pristina. Apparently there is a demand for flights from the North. Germania are doing 1-2 weekly flights from LGW-PRN, one of which is also a Saturday so not beyond the realms of possibility.

Bizarre. I know Pristina is re-inventing itself following the war, but traditionally it's been used as point to return illegals. It's not somewhere I would immediately connect with holiday traffic, so there's probably another agenda. It's not too far from Romania and Bulgaria for example...

[Rob1975]

Thanks for info, my Saturday morning flight MAN-RHO with Travel service is now showing with Germania after checking Olympic website.

[Navpi]

Interesting post on the Dublin thread about Emirates after 6th freedom rights Dubai - Dublin - USA.

Should Manchester not be looking to entice EK ASAP !

[GavinC]

yes they should!

[easyflyer83]

How do we know they're not?

[LAX_LHR]

Could we about to see another airline on the Moscow route?

Aeroflot have previously (August 2012) applied for the rights to serve MAN 7 times per week, and was granted.

Now, Aeroflot have announced they have gained the Manchester United sponsorship, which now adds a large advertising presence in both the city and hopefully Russia.

Also, when an airline sponsors a team, it usually flies to that teams city (Etihad/Man City/MAN, Delta/Chelsea/LHR, Monarch/Leeds/LBA and previously Turkish Airlines/Barcelona and Man United/MAN and BCN). Hopefully Aeroflot will follow the trend.

At the very least we will see a few charters for the team, but I for one certainly hope it leads to more.

Read more: Manchester United agree sponsorship deal with Russian airline Aeroflot - Charles Sale Sports Agenda | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2309580/Manchester-United-agree-sponsorship-deal-Russian-airline-Aeroflot--Charles-Sale-Sports-Agenda.html#ixzz2QcRqINoa)

[chaps2011]

Don`t forget Air Asia were sponsors for a couple of years and all they did was send a A320 over a couple of times

Chaps

[LAX_LHR]

An article in the 'times of India' states that Jet Airways would like to open a route to Manchester via Abu Dhabi. Good news, until you read that it is at least 2 years until it happens!

[yeo valley]

a lot can happen in 2 years or not.

[Bagso]

can't see it personally !

JET are in bed with ETIHAD now, why do a direct when you can just feed thru Abu Dhabi hub ?

Hope im wrong !

[LAX_LHR]

Not sure really Bagso. Just reporting Jet CEO's comments. Article is on google news under 'manchester flights' tag.

[nigel osborne]

BAGSO you beat me to it,

On the positive side Jet did hold a joint press conference with Manchester few years back expressing their intent to serve MAN.

However a lots changed since then with alliances and partnerships even more dominant,

So can'tr see why Jet would do a service now that they can just feed through Abu Dhabi using Etihad ?

Nigel

[LAX_LHR]

One thing to consider, this has actually come about DUE to the partnership with Etihad (hence the via Abu Dhabi out if all places).

It could work in 2 ways.

Joint venture means that it makes no difference to Jet or Etihad who the passenger uses to get to AUH (or indeed India). Its like the BA/AA/IB venture, all carriers get the same share of profit regardless of who carried them.
Therefore, if Jet ran DEL-AUH-MAN, both carriers get shared profit, Jet gets a visible presence at MAN and Etihad can use Jet as the 3rd, or hopefully by then, 4th daily flight into MAN without tying up their own aircraft.

Also, the 2nd point, AUH would be a scissor hub for Jet, so while the jet airways aircraft may fly MAN-AUH-DEL, the passengers have many options to travel to BOM etc, or use EY to get to MAN if the connections warrant.

[LN-KGL]

I tend to agree with Bagso. You may see 9W flight codes on the board, but the aircraft flying would be Etihad.

[LAX_LHR]

I tend to agree with Bagso. You may see 9W flight codes on the board, but the flying would be Etihad

I would tend to agree, however I would like to re-iterate, the words come from the Jet Airways CEO, not me.

Jet Airways eyes global footprint via Abu Dhabi - The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Jet-Airways-eyes-global-footprint-via-Abu-Dhabi/articleshow/19642581.cms)

[LN-KGL]

Well, the ToI article is written of Saurabh Sinha, not Mr. Nikos Kardassis. There is also a second hurdle, and that is the bilateral flying rights between India and UAE now set to 13,000 passengers per week. Air India and some parts of the Indian Government seems to dislike the proposal to increase this to 53,000 according to this article:
Jet-Etihad deal: Bilateral flying rights between India-UAE will hurt industry, other airlines - The Economic Times (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/jet-etihad-deal-bilateral-flying-rights-between-india-uae-will-hurt-industry-other-airlines/articleshow/19641647.cms)

[LAX_LHR]

Air India and some parts of the Indian Government seems to dislike the
proposal to increase this to 53,000


Of course they would object, its India. Forward thinking and common sense is expressly banned :ugh:

[Bagso]

Im not sure I would be too chuffed if I had booked EITHAD and ended up on JET.

The standard of service on ETIHAD is impeccable, any level of service offered by JET would have to match this.

[LN-KGL]

Bagso, there are a number such let-downs, especially within alliances. As an example, I flew to Nice in October and involved were three Star Alliance airlines - Swiss, Lufthansa and SAS. One could easily compare this trip as moving from heaven to hell - in the order given above.

[Funderblaster]

I've flown Etihad Business from MAN to AUH and also Jet business class from YYZ to BRU. Jet were every bit as good, if not better !!

[ManofMan]

I have flown Both Etihad and Jet in business and Cattle, very little difference at all.

[Bagso]

Great news re levels of service then !

JET were certainly interested in a MAN service unless we were just a makeweight in negotiations to lever rates down at BRU.

Now they are in bed with ETIHAD it could be good news, although I cannot see a 3rd ETIHAD service being 2/3 years.

Most flights appear to be booked out solid and with rumours of EK going 4 daily I doubt they would want to fall further behind ?

[LAX_LHR]

Jet2 have put on sale Fuerteventura from MAN (and LBA/GLA-FUE too).

Initially 1 weekly on Friday from April 2014, rising to 2 weekly with a Monday flight from May.

[BasilFawlty]

Anyone got more info regarding the Small Planet aircraft?

Wed: LCA 1100 1800 1900 2215 LLP213/4
Thu: PVK 0800 1340 1430 1625 LLP247/8
Fri: CFU 0715 1255 1345 1455 LLP228/9

There's also a flight to KGS on Thursdays but that's operated by the LGW based aircraft. So, are there any other flights? Your help will be highly appreciated! ;)

[LAX_LHR]

I cannot find a public link to verify this just yet, but, it says the Etihad flights to Manchester will initially have a Jet Airways codeshare, and are looking to start MAN-BOM via AUH on Jet metal in 'early 2014'.

Hopefully something more detailed will come out once the dust settles from the purchase.

[nigel osborne]

From a route update site today quoting Virgin have cancelled their twice weekly Lasd Vegas service this winter, although may be subject to updates.

"Manchester – Las Vegas 2 weekly service appears to be cancelled, as this route is not appearing in the GDS. However, further changes is likely"

Nigel

[GEB74]

Nigel - Re: VS LAS service. It's going seasonal apparently. Leisure fleet size is being reduced, things have got to give. Whether it really reappears next summer is debatable.....

Re: Etihad / Jet. In my recent experience, the route could do with some form of additional capacity. Last 2 legs, first flight 95% full, second flight 100% full throughout and there were a number of very unhappy involuntary offloads at checkin at AUH - not a common sight on a ME carrier who don't seem to me to overbook as aggressively as the US carriers and can usually find sufficient voluntary offloads when they need to.
Whether the route gets an equipment upgrade or an additional frequency in the future is an interesting question. Linked to this is whether Etihad would want to put an F equipped aircraft on the route in the future. Their A333's and A345's would actually be a cut in capacity due to configuration, the A346 does not provide much of a boost, but the 2 class B773ER would be a big hike in capacity. Interesting dilemma for them - maybe a frequency increase operated by Jet would be handy??

[Bagso]

Re VS MAN-LAS

...its shambolic anyway as was being promoted as ;
check in Man-LHR
Coach with scenic views of M25 to LGW
then re-checkin LGW-LAS

It was a service doing really well until some idiot with Virgin presumably thought.

"hey why don't we funnel pax into the South East on our shiny new shuttle ".

Beardie's advisers have completly B******D up a well run service that did have 82% load factors !

[nigel osborne]

GER74.

Thanks for the update, perhaps it could go to a 77W if they have any free, and as you say an A380 in the future,

Suppose it depends if Qatar aim there A380 at high yield routes , or follow Emirates in using them as high capacity mode in the UK.

BAGSO.

Shocking if VS are busing from MAN to LGW as a passenger Id be furious !

Nigel

[Bagso]

Hi Nigel

Not sure they are fully promoting the excitement of the
"M25 scenic tour element" of the trip :)

I suspect most pax have not got a clue, especially those who are repeats who assume it's non-stopper !

BUT if you look at the major booking engines eg Amadeus etc and put in Manchester-Las Vegas you will see the two stops 1st leg terminates at LHR, second leg starts at LGW

MAN-LHR
LGW-LAS.

I would love to know how travel agents will handle this when pax discover what there ticket actually entails.......

Not sure where this sits with Beardies green credentials, but hey no point in doing one direct flight when you can do 2 and throw in a 40 mile bus ride for good measure !

PS wonder what they do if the M25 is clogged up ?

[Skipness One Echo]

Beardie's advisers have completly B******D up a well run service that did have 82% load factors !
82% discounted and staff travel in February or 82% with extortionate fares in August? Or is the 82% the rolling 12 month average?

OK so are you now saying that a long haul operator with two based heavies like Virgin Atlantic now have an anti-MAN agenda? Truth is bmi couldn't manage to make a proper success of this one year round on the A332 (BD751 / 752), it's proved too much aircraft for the VS B744s and the A333s are being used elsewhere. I would imagine the fact that the A333s are being reconfigured with more Upper Class may be an issue as in effect they're matching the LHR config across the fleet. It depends how much premium MAN-LAS sees. Anyway it was announced ages ago that this was going seasonal, I expect it will be back next summer and do equally well, the key point is that it appears to be not worth the candle in operating in the winter.
The lack of MAN-LGW connection now means the only way to get on the LGW-LAS flight is via LHR is you fly then bus it. Yes it's far from ideal but if you really want one stop MAN-LAS then you go via LHR with BA.

First world problems! Is the MAN base going to one aircraft for the winter or a daily MAN-MCO with a BGI and MCO on select days?

[rutankrd]

The Virgin Stag and Hen party flights have been zeros after October for months already.

Certainly effected by APD and economy as most of the clientele were four day party trippers .

There has been no official statement of it going seasonal either.

Simply zeroed beyond October.

However its no surprise as others have said Leisure fleet will be one 744 down and both A333s are being re-configured to LHR Premium standard.

The Manchester operation will remain MCO daily + and the Barbados route remains.
All on 744s I believe.

Getting back to Vegas It WILL continue to be available direct from Manchester through the winter on the quasi scheduled TCX/DE operation if you still want to empty your pockets and bank balances to support those so indebted and impoverished local businesses out in the desert!

[LAX_LHR]

Some more bad news from Lufthansa.

After the withdrawal of Berlin flights, it seems Munich looses its nightstopping flight on Saturday (depart Sunday morning) from the end of October.

Sundays sees departures to MUC at 1105 and 1725 from this date. However, there will still be a choice of 5 flights on a Sunday (2xLH 1xU2 1xZB and 1xSQ).

Also, DUS drops from 4 daily to 3 daily, and just 2 daily on Sundays.

[Suzeman]

Yes it's far from ideal but if you really want one stop MAN-LAS then you go via LHR with BA.


You could always go direct from MAN via a US hub :ok:. The choice is yours

Unlike you to forget Mr Skipness, or are you on commission? :eek:

[Skipness One Echo]

A genuine mistake, I was looking at a one stop via London and the hhhhhhorrors of a LHR-LGW transfer. There are options going the right way with the US carriers of course! If I was booking ex MAN I'd probably choose them. See? Not a fan-boy.

[AldiAl]

Saudia - Manchester

Anybody know if we have any prospect of getting this service back?
When it started with 777's I did think it was a bit optimistic size-wise at the time.

In mainland Europe their A320's are regular visitors and bearing in mind their acquisition of a fair few A321's, which I think would have the range to get up here, I wonder if the airport have made any noises regarding re-instatement of the service?

Maybe the loads were very poor though...anybody know please?

[roverman]

Don't think the old B772 service did that well against the more attractive, frequent and non-dry alternatives. It did pick up some 5th freedom traffic to the GVA stop off, especially winter skiers who could just about manage two hours without a G&T.

[chaps2011]

An interesting article in Northwest business news
Home (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/) / Deals/Restructuring (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/deals.html) / Osborne to launch new Manchester-China Forum (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/459780-osborne-to-launch-new-china-forum.html)


Osborne to launch new Manchester-China Forum

26th April 2013

inShare Share:


http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/assets/_files/cached/img/33x45/oct_08/businessdesk__1223453947_44lr.jpg?access=313T300T840 By Chris Barry - Editor, North West


http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/assets/_files/cached/img/310x207/nov_11/businessdesk__1322561719_osborne1.jpg?access=604T778T840 Guzelian Photography – Guzelian: every day, but never everyday (http://www.guzelian.co.uk)


CHANCELLOR George Osborne is launching as new venture designed to build trade links and secure direct flights between Manchester and China.

The Manchester-China Forum is a new business-led initiative aimed at increasing Greater Manchester’s commercial connectivity with the world's second-largest economy.

Mr Osborne said: “The Chinese community make a huge contribution to Manchester and to the United Kingdom. China continues to grow at a remarkable pace and I want to make the UK the first place Chinese companies think of when they come to do business in Europe.

"I strongly support the Manchester-China Forum and the ambition of Manchester Airports Group to provide a direct airline service between Manchester and China as the natural next step in developing these links.”

The Forum builds on the recommendations set out in Lord Nat Wei’s Report ‘Growing East – A Strategy for Greater Manchester’s engagement with China’ published in July 2012.

Lord Wei’s report identified China as a strategic priority for Greater Manchester, with a strong potential for growth in trade, inward investment, tourism and education.

The six main goals of the Manchester-China Forum are:
• support the growth of Manchester’s exports to China by 2018;
• increase inward investment into Manchester from Chinese companies;
• grow inward tourism from Chinese visitors;
• increase Chinese student numbers in Greater Manchester’s educational institutions;
• increase student retention; and
• secure direct air routes between Manchester and China.

Charlie Cornish, chief executive of the Manchester Airports Group (MAG) and chair of the Forum, said: “The forum will be business-focused and targeted specifically at the Greater Manchester region.

"The partners involved felt a need for local businesses to receive more focused help so we will specifically identify Chinese sectors and regions with characteristics complementary to Manchester, and then devote our resources to building networks with them.

"More than £4bn of business was struck between China and the North West of England last year and we want to build on that start and ensure a lasting legacy between our two countries.”


Chaps

[Betablockeruk]

CHANCELLOR George Osborne is launching as new venture designed to build trade links and secure direct flights between Manchester and China.

I do hope any Chinese airline makes APD a deal-breaker. That'll test his resolve.

[LAX_LHR]

I do hope any Chinese airline makes APD a deal-breaker. That'll test his
resolve


I fully agree. Will he be willing to 'put his money where his mouth is', or, will it all just be hot air as usual.

Its going to be interesting to see how much he genuinely 'supports' an new air link. Lets not forget he was a champion for milking the airport for compensation for the residents of Mobberly etc.

[Bagso]

He appears to be looking dreamily up the approach at a China Southern777 !

[LAX_LHR]

As part of the continuing relationship with Condor, Thomas Cook will be using Orlando International, rather than Sanford, next summer.

The new Antigua/St. Lucia flights appear to be seasonal at the moment, as 1 weekly Barbados is loaded for S14, but the other 2 do not (yet).

[insuindi]

4U appears to drop STR-MAN with the end of the summer period.

[LAX_LHR]

Well, that's not good.

Got a funny feeling Lufthansa will not be releasing the obligatory celebrating 'large increases' at Manchester press release this year after this lot.

So, Berlin dropped, 1 weekly MUC flight gone, 1 daily Dusseldorf gone, and now Stuttgart courtesy of Germanwings dropped.

I suppose you win some and loose some, but its certainly been a while that MAN has lost more flights in a month than gained.

[North West]

Quote:
I do hope any Chinese airline makes APD a deal-breaker. That'll test his
resolve
I fully agree. Will he be willing to 'put his money where his mouth is', or, will it all just be hot air as usual.

Its going to be interesting to see how much he genuinely 'supports' an new air link. Lets not forget he was a champion for milking the airport for compensation for the residents of Mobberly etc.

At which point anyone currently making money from routing passengers to China via their own hub in Europe or the Middle East is just expected to roll over and accept the tax break given to a competitor?

[LAX_LHR]

At which point anyone currently making money from routing passengers to China via their own hub in Europe or the Middle East is just expected to roll over and accept the tax break given to a competitor?


Actually I would like APD lowered across the board. I don't expect anything for free mind you, but at the same time I do not agree with paying the rates we are subject to now.

[goldeneye]

TCX will be operating some changes in 2014.

Las Vegas 3x weekly (wed,fri & sun)
Cancun 4x weekly (tue,wed,fri & sun)
Majorca Daily
Punta Cana Now weekly
Varadero Now Weekly
Barbados, St Lucia and Antigua are carrying on from Winter into Summer.
Monastir is back in addition to NBE.

[LAX_LHR]

That's quite a beefed up long haul schedule.

Seems the Condor deal could help no end!

[LAX_LHR]

Easyjet has won the rights to serve MAN-LED (St. Petersburg).

While a company spokesperson has said 'they will not use the rights at present', that's a standard press response, but they are obviously interested:

EasyJet wins approval for Manchester-Saint Petersburg service | Airports & Routes content from ATWOnline (http://atwonline.com/airports-amp-routes/easyjet-wins-approval-manchester-saint-petersburg-service)

[trumptonville]

The LH MUC Sat nightstopper hasn't operated for a long time so not sure how it can be reduced ?????

[LAX_LHR]

The LH MUC Sat nightstopper hasn't operated for a long time so not sure how
it can be reduced ?????


Seems you are right.

Looks like there is a 'ghost' in the system as my screen shows LH2505 arrives at 22:20 Saturdays and then departs at 06:55 Sundays.

Oh well, small ray of hope in amongst the bleak German picture then.

[VickersVicount]

"Seems the Condor deal could help no end!"
I dont understand how a combined booking system will help, Condor pax ex Germany will not really want to non interline connect to MAN when there are plenty of local options for departures

[LAX_LHR]

I dont understand how a combined booking system will help, Condor pax ex
Germany will not really want to non interline connect to MAN when there are
plenty of local options for departures


They have done a lot more than just 'slap a codeshare on it', so to speak.

-Back office functions of TCX/TCW and DE have now been 'merged', so he business is more streamlined.

-GDS availability means that TCX seats can now be viewed on things such as Amadeus and Sabre, thus appearing on more 'flight comparison sites', and thus in turn leads to more awareness. TCX is now not just purely a charter airline, but a quasi charter/scheduled one, similar to Jet2 and Monarch.

-Airline being run as more of a 'stand alone business' now, so the holiday arm, whilst will still account for a large number of seats, has less influence over the airline, so that the airline can run whats profitable for them, and not just fits the needs of the holiday business.

[Bagso]

Amadeus/ Sabre +airline comparison sites.

Probably a debate for a new thread.

Havnt checked Amadeus /Sabre BUT if you put in Manchester to any one of the destinations served direct these sites STILL direct you via another hub unless you are quite savvy in finding the "DIRECT" tab which is usually off the page or in a discreet area.

[chaps2011]

Amadeus seems quite strait forward, just tried MAN/LAS request non stop on top left of page and first flight that came up was Thomas Cook on a Sunday

Chaps

[StoneyBridge Radar]

http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/assets/_files/cached/img/310x207/nov_11/businessdesk__1322561719_osborne1.jpg?access=604T778T840

Jesus, are they still on easterlies...? :ok:

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: “Actually I would like APD lowered across the board. I don't expect anything for free mind you, but at the same time I do not agree with paying the rates we are subject to now.”

Would love to see it ended altogether, but back to pre-2007 levels would be reasonable.



Quote: “Easyjet has won the rights to serve MAN-LED (St. Petersburg).

While a company spokesperson has said 'they will not use the rights at present', that's a standard press response, but they are obviously interested:”

Excellent news: Ringway directly linked to Russia’s 2 biggest cities! Is it yet known which Russian carrier has the reciprocal rights?

[LAX_LHR]

Excellent news: Ringway directly linked to Russia’s 2 biggest cities!
Is it yet known which Russian carrier has the reciprocal rights?


Aeroflot hold the reciprocal rights for MAN-Moscow. They hold the right to serve the route 7 times a week (daily).
Im certainly hoping they use at least some of these rights now they sponsor Man U.

Im not sure who holds the reciprocal rights for MAN-LED, but one would assume its Rossiya or Transaero as they are the only 2 who have a meaningful number of flights to cities like Manchester (ei not sun seeker routes).

[j636]

Venice being dropped on November 16 and Barcelona going year round operating 4 weekly.(almost sure BCN didn't operate last winter)

[LAX_LHR]

Venice being dropped on November 16


Another retreat off an easyjet route.

Jet2 certainly being bitten at MAN.

[Ringwayman]

Did Jet2 even operate to Venice last winter? Thought it was always a summer-only route for them - certainly appears that way as none of the 4 UK-Venice operates past mid-November.

[airhumberside]

Venice has never operated year round IIRC. One year it restarted in February I think but normally it begins once the clocks change at the end of March. Unless someone has inside information it's far too early to tell if it will be back for Summer 2014 - only the Canaries and Turkey are on sale for S14 so far

[MKY661]

Another retreat off an easyjet route.

Don't forget Monarch do it as well so there is a lot of competition :)

[116d]

-GDS availability means that TCX seats can now be viewed on things such as Amadeus and Sabre, thus appearing on more 'flight comparison sites', and thus in turn leads to more awareness. TCX is now not just purely a charter airline, but a quasi charter/scheduled one, similar to Jet2 and Monarch.

That will explain why Kayak showed a TCX flight as an option when I priced up a MAN-FAO flight a few weeks ago.

It's a good move as they can hardly expect people who would have otherwise gone to FR/U2/LS/ZB for a flight to a holiday destination to look at what TCX has to offer in terms of flights and prices if they don't know anything about it, so being on the comparison sites is a good way of increasing awareness. The next step would be to advertise their flights more prominently like the competition.

[LAX_LHR]

Some more Thomas Cook and Condor partnership:

Condor will base a B757-300 at MAN from April 11th 2014 and operate:

Palma, Ibiza, Kos, Fuerteventura and Rhodes.

Palma will be 5 weekly, the others 1 weekly with the Sunday Kos also operating a W pattern to Frankfurt.

[North West]

TCX were running an average of a daily service to PMI and 6 weekly to IBZ in the peak last summer, so it will be interesting to see if this is all incremental capacity.

Did Jet2 even operate to Venice last winter?

No.

Aeroflot hold the reciprocal rights for MAN-Moscow. They hold the right to serve the route 7 times a week (daily).
Im certainly hoping they use at least some of these rights now they sponsor Man U.

Unless you've an unfulfilled urge to fly on Aeroflot (and I can't think why) then a better bet for MAN plc will be to give Ezy time to establish themselves on the route and hope this in turn gives them the confidence to do other, similar things.

[Suzeman]

Will he be willing to 'put his money where his mouth is', or, will it all just be hot air as usual.

Small correction - put OUR money where his mouth is...:E

Would be nice to see a reduction in regional airports' APD - we did for the beer tax duty escalator, so this should be the next target :D


StoneyBridge
Jesus, are they still on easterlies...?

Excellent - always worth a look on here with quality posts like that :ok:

[TOPFLIGHT]

LAX-LHR....where did you get the Condor 757-300 MAN based info from ?

[LAX_LHR]

Ch-aviation and advance gds preview

[LAX_LHR]

Days of operation for Condor 2014:

Palma: Mon, Wed, Thu, Fri and Sat
Kos: Sun
Fuerteventura: Tue
Rhodes: Wed
Ibiza: Sat

Apparently more flights to be announced.

Mon, Thu and Fri all have a gap for an afternoon flight.

Codes for the flights begin in either DE13**, DE15**, or DE17**.

[LAX_LHR]

TAP UK general manager has given an interview in which he outlines MAN plans:

-Flight to return to daily oven the winter. This will gauge demand and will still be a higher frequency than last winter.

-Will return to 10 weekly in April 2014, 2 months earlier than this year's increase to 10 weekly.

-Flight will then increase to 12 weekly. No exact date given but, increase to 10 weekly this year is June, so 12 weekly could be June again.

-Flight likely to stay at 10 weekly next winter. They were going to make it 10 weekly this winter, but decided on daily as in point A.

Breaking Travel News interview: TAP Portugal general manager, UK, Rui Lemos | Focus | Breaking Travel News (http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/focus/article/breaking-travel-news-interview-tap-portugal-general-manager-uk-rui-lemos/)

In terms of Summer 2013:

Saturdays now sees the A320 scheduled instead of A319.

Sundays now sees an A320 on the 2nd daily flight, up from the F100. Sunday morning still sees the A321.

[LAX_LHR]

MAN has finally broken through 20m passengers again :ok:

Terminal pax: 20,028,829

+3.46 annual and up 3.37 on the month.

Freight still sinking ever further.....

[MARK9263]

When you own another airport down the road that already handles large amount of freight why concentrate on freight here???
Apart from CX,LH & FDX, it seems that that is exactly what they are doing.

Besides, where would any extra freight flights park anyway when the stands keep disappearing...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ugh::ugh:

[chaps2011]

Man and Ema specialise in different kinds of freight and as most air freight
is actually carried on scheduled pax services dedicated flights are only a small part of the operation.
With Airport City building due to commence and an extension to freight
complex also due to start this year it will grow again

Chaps

[take-off]

Having looked online for flight to Las vegas, nothign as of yet is available beyond October and starting next again following April, also are TCx upping to 3 times a week, with view that Virgin may not return next year on route , which would be a shame, have emailed Thomson, asking if they have any plans to serve Vegas, considering the arrival on the 787. Got a reply telling me to book through the Tailormade brochure, which offers flights , but only with a change, and witha different airline (hardly an answer to my question:ugh::ugh:). Just one other note with with thomas cook , offering 3 flights a week, the only holidays offered are 7 or 14 nights , this year you can book 4, 7 and 10 nights, with the 2 weekly flights this summer. Would seem a bit of a backward step there??.:confused:

[LAX_LHR]

Jet2 have some increases loaded for Summer 2014:

Reus, Barcelona, Dalaman, Las Palmas, Zante, Lanzarote, Bodrum, Rhodes, Kos, Heraklion, Paphos and Corfu all gain 1 extra flight per week.

Tenerife gets 2 extra flights per week

Fuerteventura is new at 2 weekly.

(Tenerife and Dalaman now daily, Barcelona now 6 weekly)

Not all flights are loaded (city flights such as Venice, Prague etc in particular), so time will tell if an extra aircraft to be based or if these 16 extra flights are going to be taken away elsewhere.

[PhilW1981]

Anyone know what was happening at Man this morning? No early morning departures or arrivals.

[LAX_LHR]

What do you mean? Aircraft have been coming and going all day with no major delays?

[JackRalston]

PhilW1981

Are you referring to certain flights heading towards PMI? There was fog at PMI causing slot delays here and same with a few to BCN. Those affected only about 2hrs in the end.

[MKY661]

G-ZBAD has been delivered today.

Apparently this aircraft and the other new A321 are to be based in Birmingham this summer?

[LAX_LHR]

Transavia France to operate MAN-PMI next summer, possibly opening a base.

Flights will be:
TO1956 MAN 0645 PMI 0945
TO1957 PMI 1045 MAN 1230

Fridays starting 7th March and are in GDS systems using B737-800.

Will have a root to see what other flights they have.

[j636]

http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/alldocs/DBC33D6FEE2D3E6A80257B6000311DD7/$File/April+14.pdf

up 3% with over 1.5 million pax

[LAX_LHR]

Transavia do indeed appear to be opening a seasonal base at MAN.

In GDS, flights loaded so far:

Las Palmas Mondays
Tenerife Tuesdays
Fuerteventura Wednesdays
Lanzarote Thursdays
Palma Mallorca Saturdays

Cannot find Fri/Sun flights just yet, but 1 B737-800 to be based from November 3rd 2013.

Flight times can be given on request, but no flight numbers are loaded yet, as all but the PMI flights have TO0 as a flight number.

[nigel osborne]

LAX-LHR

you would think that Palma would already be saturated with based carriers.

Still if it survives another good airline for MAN.

Nigel

[LAX_LHR]

Palma seems to be a huge market from MAN.

There are no less than 11 flights per day during August, and will only be added to once Condor start and other operators state their capacity intentions for S14.

[North West]

I thought the Condor arrangement was a way of providing charter capacity to TCX - with some of the seats being distributed via GDS. Are you saying it's all incremental capacity to what TCX are offering this summer ?

[LAX_LHR]

No condor will be selling the flights in their own right.

If it was just extra capacity fir TCX, the flights would have TCX codes, the same way Condor puts its own DE code on the TCX B767's it borrows.

However, all flights operated by the Condor B757-300 will be operated under DE codes and not TCX ones.

[North West]

Thomas Cook and Condor will be integrated into a single airline so I was asking whether the basing of this Condor aircraft actually increasing capacity for the Thomas Cook group at Manchester. Or is it the same number of seats but with some services now being flown on Condor and the rest still with TCX.

[LAX_LHR]

I think its increasing capacity as the Condor PMI flights do not seem to be similar to any TCX PMI timings this year.

[MARK9263]

Just looking at the schedules for September 2007, the month Air China started.
It makes disturbing reading compared to 2013;

AIR CHINA 3 x weekly
CHINA AIRLINES 3 x weekly
CATHAY PACIFIC 6 x weekly
CATHAY PACIFIC (Dragonair) Daily
JETT8 2 x weekly
GREAT WALL 4 x weekly
FEDEX 4 x weekly

One day alone, Wednesday 5th September saw all seven flights
CCA B-2476
CAL B-18702
CPA B-HVZ
CPA B-KAA
JEA 9V-JEA
GWL B-2429
FDX N594FE.

OK, todays economic situation is a fact but it can't be the whole story.
In 2005/2006/2007 the airport was absolutely buzzing.......Something has/is gone/going wrong???

[LAX_LHR]

Well Jett8 and Great wall are no longer.

FedEx now base a B757, but, would be great to have the MD11 to MEM back.

Air China and China Airlines. Not sure why they left but it would be great to have them back.

I guess the latter 2 and Cathay are just a by-product of the downturn. Hopefully one day they will be back, but, no point flying round empty freighters if the demand is not there. I hear most of the products the B744's used to ship are now sent by sea.

I suppose we will have to make do with the Lufthansa MD11, FedEx B757/ATR base and Cathay, along with the ad-hoc stuff like Saudi (not sure what their B744 took away from MAN) and China Southern (if they need more pigs) every now and then.

[MARK9263]

Do you want to tell the likes of Stansted and East Midlands about the downturn?

[rutankrd]

It really IS the Economy in this case.

Pure freighters into the UK have declined everywhere including LHR

There EVA and JAL have gone with Singapore and Cathay much reduced as well.

Until we start spending again and that little man from Tatton stops taxing everything that moves the UK will see more of the remaining freight that can't be carried in the bellies of larger craft off loaded in the low countries.

From there transferred by 40 tonne trucks or the ever increasing number of international Freightliner trains into the UK.

In fact I think we might never see the days of multiple pure freighters again.

Additional factor airfreight rates have risen alarmingly in the last few years and many shippers have returned to using waterways for less time critical goods.

Through even that route trends to offload in the low countries for onward shipment because of rates and limited capacity at UK terminals !

[rutankrd]

Those two are parcel and document transfer points in the main - Not much tonnage on the those Fed Ex/UPS planes in reality.

Try either with a pallet of machinery and a manufacturing exporter would likely never win any orders.

That said global electronic companies such as Apple use them to deliver from Foxcomm factories direct to customers because it allows them to have virtually no inventory sitting on their shelves !

The likes of Foxcomm take that risk !

[JackRalston]

Heard from a few people now that Emirates are to upgrade the evening 19/20 service to an A380 from November(ish) time and are also looking to add a 4th service to depart around midnight, starting from next year.

[LAX_LHR]

Its always been pretty much guaranteed the EK19/20 will be an A380 this year.

A MAN-DXB that departs midnight will certainly be unique. They had in the past provisionally loaded EK23/24 at similar times to the EK29/30 at LHR, which acts as a 'relief' flight for the EK17/18 as its the main departure bank.

[LAX_LHR]

Norwegian seem to be in the process of adding the last bit of their winter schedule online (Feb 1st until March 26th). It is now appearing on GDS but not their website at the moment.

The look was prompted by rumours that MAN-ALC could be starting soon, but, unfortunately seems to be an 'as you were' situation with no new routes or frequencies at the moment.

[LAX_LHR]

Further to an earlier post, it does seem Egyptair is a seasonal flight.

It is not bookable for the winter season, but is bookable from 3rd April 2014 again. B737-800 is still listed.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

I don't recollect this news being passed on.

The report is from the end of last year when Garuda announced their return to LGW.

National flag carrier PT Garuda Indonesia opened six new routes to Europe and one new route to the Middle East on Sunday, following a code-sharing agreement with Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways.

The new six destinations are London and Manchester in the UK, Paris in France, Moscow in Russia, Athens in Greece and Muscat in Oman.

“Under the new agreement, Garuda also moved its international hub from Dubai to Abu Dhabi as of Sunday, Dec. 2,” said Garuda Indonesia Spokesman Pujobroto through a written statement made available on Sunday. The Abu Dhabi stopover was taken into effect during the Jakarta-Amsterdam flight on Sunday at 7 p.m. local time.

Garuda Indonesia CEO Emirsyah Satar said that Etihad would be the company’s main partner in western bound routes, while Etihad would become Garuda’s partner in eastern bound routes.

"Through Abu Dhabi international airport, the Garuda passengers have better access to more than 80 cities in 50 countries in Europe, North America, Middle East and Africa,” he said.

The code-sharing agreement was signed on Oct. 18 in Abu Dhabi. Under the agreement, Etihad will place its “EY” code on Garuda’s services on Jakarta-Denpasar and Jakarta-Kuala Lumpur routes.

Garuda will also places its “GA” code on Etihad’s flights from Jakarta to up to 31 destinations in the Gulf Cooperation Council, Levant, Africa, Europe and North America.

Garuda Indonesia opens six new routes to Europe, Middle East | The Jakarta Post (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/12/02/garuda-indonesia-opens-six-new-routes-europe-middle-east.html)

[j636]

http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/we-re-all-going-on-our-summer-holidays-

Anyone else think that MAN isn't as easy for FR to crack, having to offer discounts for passengers from....

[StoneyBridge Radar]

http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/we-re...ummer-holidays-

Anyone else think that MAN isn't as easy for FR to crack, having to offer discounts for passengers from....

Duff link. :(

[j636]

Its under "We’re All Going On Our Summer Holidays…" on Ryanair news.

[Scottie Dog]

GDS shows a 787 on the morning flight this Sunday (19th) and the lunchtime service on Monday (20th).

That beats Britannia for the first revenue service then!

[LAX_LHR]

Monday should be a good day to go view the B787.

Jet airways A330 in the morning, Qatar B787 in the afternoon :ok:

[Logohu]

Oh dear, it now appears from another website that Germanwings are dropping MAN-Stuttgart from 9th September rather than end of October.

I guess what appeared to work well for years on a more frequent CRJ service just didn't translate to the larger and less frequent A319s.

An opportunity perhaps for Flybe or BMIR ??

[doublesix]

Am I missing something? Is the 787 back in the air?

[TSR2]

Am I missing something? Is the 787 back in the air?

Not sure if you are serious but YES it is.

[Mr Mac]

Hope EK do not change eve flight to A380 as they charge premium for A380 service at lunch time, and I prefer the evening flight as less Golf players, and better connection to where I want to go, and when I want to fly. Also know a number of Northern brought up Pursers / CSD who would cry buckets IF MAN 777 slots moved to A380 and they and they are good people, and to be honest I prefer the "individual feel" to a 777 rather than A380 even though "flying" experience on 380 is better I have to say.

[Ringwayman]

So you don't want an airline to maximise profits on a long-haul route by upgrading? We have precious few of them that appear to be as profitable as this one so let's hope they continue to thrive.

In April there was the small matter of 63,700 passengers on the route - split amongst the 3 daily services, this equates to 354 passengers per flight.

[Bagso]

Mr Mac

The A380 is a game changer.

If you have buckets loads of cash and can fly First or business you are probably savvy enough to know the service exists and will use it !

Standards are the same in the 777 with flat beds on "our" flights but there is little doubt the 380 has the "extra pull" that makes the whole proposition more attractive.

If you live in Leeds and are doing business in China do you to fly to LHR and get on a tired BA777 or drive to Manchester and get on the 380 for at least part of your flight ?

Have a look at the CAPA report, airlines like EK, Etihad, QR have completely out manoeuvred BA,KL, AF, almost as many pax now connect via their hubs than Heathrow, Paris Frankfurt.

QF saw the light before it was too late !

The mere prestige of adding a second daily 380 will create bucket loads of publicity which can only help Manchester and enhance not detract from the offering of all these services.

Note - QR are responding with the 787 over next few days.

All these airlines see Manchester as a massive market and thee global gateway for Northern England, its just a shame the Government don't share the vision.

[Mr Mac]

Bagso
I have no issue with EK service (not quite as good as it was:{) and have been lucky enough to have flown with them in Business class from Manchester since they started with one A330 a day many moons ago. The 380 is in some respect a very good a/c for passenger experience, although the bar can get a little loud if you are in the rear seats up stairs. The newer 777 that I have flown on recently with tablet ICE controls have been in my opinion just as good. The lounge at Man is very good and in general the EK experience is many years ahead of that of BA or some other legacy carriers. I have not used BA at all for a number of years for the reasons which you speak of, and only use Singapore, EK, Lufthansa for L/H and some LOCO for short hops from MAN /LPL. My comment about my personal preference re 777 is not to do with how a second 380 service plays with Manchester airport success or failure, it is about "my" experience on that a/c. I do fly on a regular basis to Mid / Far East and Africa so do get to try a number of a/c and carriers and so do fly 380 quite a bit. My least favourite is EK330 but that's another post !. I hope Manchester airport continues to thrive as a very regular user of the place - (with EK Sunday night), and that EK supports them as I am sure they will, however "my" personal preference for service on board has been new 777, maybe down to crew to passenger ratio I don't know.:ok:

[PhilW1981]

The problem with EK 777 is that there is always a chance is J that you get a horrible old seat without lie flat, at least hard product on A380 is guaranteed. (I also prefer new 777 as service levels are better in J).

[TSR2]

from Manchester since they started with one A330 a day many moons ago.

Stand to be corrected but I thought they started from Manchester with A310's, at least that's what it was when I flew with them in the 80's.

[Ringwayman]

Began as 2 weekly A310s from November 1990 via Frankfurt (think it was Tuesday + Fridays)

[LAX_LHR]

Emirates started MAN the A310 on a 2 weekly flight, initially via FRA or CDG (or both at some stage).

[TSR2]

Seem to remember the Manchester A310 flight going via Zurich in the early days.

[Logohu]

I recall EK also ran the larger A300-600R's via a mainland Europe point, until delivery of the A330-200s which enabled the service to go nonstop to Dubai.

[Mr Mac]

All
Do not know about A3OO/ 310, was always 330 since I started ( approx 2001) flying with them on this route before 777/380 introduced.

[gazza007]

Pleasant & unexpected surprise to see my first 787 depart on 05L this morning from bedroom window.
Very identifiable wing tips & tail I would say noise similar to A388.
Looks a nice bird but will look better in stretched versions.

[chaps2011]

I`m not sure about looks, probably better on longer version but looking forward to seeing A350. B787 actually looks quite small when you see it but then it is
about same size as B767

Chaps.

[Suzeman]

The problem with EK 777 is that there is always a chance is J that you get a horrible old seat without lie flat, at least hard product on A380 is guaranteed. (I also prefer new 777 as service levels are better in J).

Luckily not many 777 left with the non-flat beds now in J class. Prefer the 380 personally as to go for a wee, you don't have to climb over the adjacent seat if you are not in an aisle seat or have someone try and climb over you if you are!

Not sure what you mean by service levels being better - thought this was mainly a function of the crew and you get good and poor on both types.

[nigel osborne]

Chaps 211

I can't believe how boring the A350 looks. The A330 looks great with a lovely fuselage sweep down from back to front.

The A350 had a completely straight fuselage , basically a straight tube.

They might build them efficient but boy have they ignored any aerodynamic style.. The 787 looks modern at least !

Suppose we all have our own opinion though.

Nigel

[MAN330-300]

The flights did operate using a mix of A310 and A300 aircraft via a European gateway however I think they may have not had traffic rights. I do remember later on the service stopped at ZRH and you could just buy a ticket MAN/ZRH and MAN/DXB and beyond. I think the A330 operation started around 2000.

Most of the long haul carriers going east from MAN stopped in Europe.

[easyflyer83]

The A330 was operating 1998/1999

[Mr Mac]

Suzeman
Comment on service level is based on crew to passenger ratio in that class which favours 777 v 380. 380 is a good plane but it is a personal choice. Have flown Lufthansa and Singapore 380 with no real issues, my early comments were based on service level from crew, and that the bar on EK 380 can get a little loud some times. My choice of eve Man flights is due to my own schedule / preference. I agree totally with all comments re old "Lazy boy" seats on EK older 777, BUT have not had one of these for a while so I am basing comment on "New" 777 re 380. Also I have been doing this for a lot of my working life, and some of the A/C, and seats, do not seem bad in comparison with those flights I have taken in the past. However even older a/c seemed to have better seats. If you are ever at Imperial War Museum Duxford, go and look at economy seats in EX BA VC10 and compare with current BA offering. I know they did not have ICE / Kriss but the actual seat size, and legroom to allow sleep / comfort, is what matters.There, are believe me, only so many films you want to see, and that plane does seem to crawl across the map on the in flight up date map - more so when coming home !!:ok: .

[LAX_LHR]

I see that Thai Airways have AGAIN stated Manchester flights are an option to them.

I wonder if they will ever grow some balls and start the route, it has got to be one the longest 'anticipated' service announcement in MAN'S history!

[Bagso]

.....and in the same week JET2 started a couple of new flights albeit to a couple of sun destinations (without any fanfare from the airport).

.....and Qatar used the Dreamliner on Doha services a brilliant opportunity to indicate the airlines faith in Manchester, it was at least heartening to see the airport getting its priorities right and redressing the balance with some robust marketing by promoting Virgin Holiday Manchester to New York to its 60,000 followers via Twitter.

"Hang on we don't have a DIRECT flight to New York with Virgin !"

"Must be a code share, oh that's Delta and they go to Atlanta !"

"It must be a new service which is great, but wait has there been an announcement surely they are not suggesting people fly via Heathrow on a Virgin Shuttle are they ?

Am I missing something here ?

Charlie Cornish CEO 1st NOV The Business Desk

"we will soon launch a 'Fly Manchester' campaign targeted at those four million people a year who use Heathrow each year".


This is complete and utter bloody madness, who on earth is managing this output when we have a direct flight with UNITED !

The route development manager is addressing a local group of spotters next month, can I please beg somebody to ask what the hell is going on ...

...idiots, complete idiots !

[LAX_LHR]

You can understand Qatar not advertising the B787. It was in to test the facilities at MAN so no point advertising for just 2 round trips that were close to sold out and on the chance you may have to swap back to the A330 or B777 at the last minute.

[LN-KGL]

You can also add to that - the B788 with 254 seats has less seats than most of the other two class long haul aircraft in QR fleet. QR is nowadays showing a decline in passengers at MAN so maybe the B788 is a better match to serve MAN.

[LAX_LHR]

LN-KGL

The 'decline' at MAN is mainly attributes to the cut in frequency, overall load factor is still good. They don't put the larger A330-300 and B777-300 to please spotters.

[Bagso]

Lets keep on message...

:ok:

What about Virgin ?

[LN-KGL]

LAX_LHR, did the egg or laying hen come first? Since the capacity was reduced, was it because aircraft were needed for destinations where they can earn more money than at MAN or was it because the demand at MAN has gone down?

Bagso, if we look at the CAA provisional April domestic report the number of passengers between MAN an LHR grew with 3258 passengers (+5.0%) to 68 406 passenger. The split between BA and Little Red I don't know, but I know the number of passengers that flew with BA between MAN and London's two largest airports went down with at least 11 740 passengers in April.

[ZOOKER]

"Let's keep on message....." :ok:

Management-speak if we're not mistaken, Bagso.

[Skipness One Echo]

The 'decline' at MAN is mainly attributes to the cut in frequency, overall load factor is still good.
Yeah they raised capacity to twice daily (by pulling LGW) which was unsustainable, for an airline that is essentially a projection of political power. 1-0 Emirates I would say.
but I know the number of passengers that flew with BA between MAN and London's two largest airports went down with at least 11 740 passengers in April.
Um wouldn't that be attributable to BA dropping MAN-LGW?

As for Little Red what do you want? Would you like BA and VS to compete against each other to their respective hubs at LHR or have no VS domestic at all? They're not in a position to make money on MAN-JFK so it's a good opportunity to keep Flying Club members happy, keep jobs in the UK (OK, Ireland for the moment) and keep BA on their toes.

[Curious Pax]

Yeah they raised capacity to twice daily (by pulling LGW) which was unsustainable, for an airline that is essentially a projection of political power. 1-0 Emirates I would say.


Wasn't the capacity cut allegedly more to do with a shortage of aircraft because of the 787 delivery delays? I guess in 12 months time if it hasn't returned to double daily then we will have the real answer, but for now I would say it isn't clear. It makes sense that QR prioritise routes to accommodate that shortage if MAN is (for example) their 10th most profitable route, but one of the top 9 also need an aircraft 4 days a week. Doesn't make MAN a poor performer, just means that they're having to juggle with fewer aircraft than expected for a period.

[LBIA]

but I know the number of passengers that flew with BA between MAN and London's two largest airports went down with at least 11 740 passengers in April.

I would'nt be surprised to find some of them lost 11,740 BA, Manchester - London pax are now using the Leeds/Bradford-Heathrow service as it carried just under 10,000 pax in April.

[Bagso]

This post is nothing to do with capacity etc.....

It is about the CEO stating that he wants more pax to use our direct services than connect to same destination via London. Hence the fly local campaign. Is it not therefore somewhat barmy for somebody in marketing to execute the exact opposite of a strategy laid down at board level. ...or am I missing something.

[Ringwayman]

MAN lobbying time (It proposes an APD “holiday” on new long haul flights, which would mean the levy would not be applied to new services until they have been properly established. That would help lure direct flights to far flung destinations like China, India and parts of the US to hubs like Manchester.)

Perhaps a more public campaign has started regarding the APD in place?

"It proposes an APD “holiday” on new long haul flights, which would mean the levy would not be applied to new services until they have been properly established.

That would help lure direct flights to far flung destinations like China, India and parts of the US to hubs like Manchester."

You wonder how they quantify "properly established".

[johnnychips]

Not only that, if it managed to lure a hypothetical direct flight to China free of APD, it would mightily p*** off the likes of BA, KLM and LH whereby Manchester- China passengers have to change in London, Amsterdam or Munich at the moment.

EDIT: And I forgot the Middle East Carriers.

[Skipness One Echo]

Not only that, if it managed to lure a hypothetical direct flight to China free of APD, it would mightily p*** off the likes of BA, KLM and LH whereby Manchester- China passengers have to change in London, Amsterdam or Munich at the moment.
You're on shaky ground legally though I think. The APD holiday given to United's BFS-EWR is small fry, this would rightly see a legal challenge from everyone mentioned about MAN giving its' preferred carrier an unfair competitive advantage.
The playing field needs to be reasonably level, MAN is one of the big boys now.

Bit like the Scottish Government Route Development "Fund".

[LN-KGL]

MAN may have something to learn from CPH?
http://www.cph.dk/NR/rdonlyres/862090E3-1927-4ACA-B3A5-A42DCCFB04B1/0/Guidelinesonroutesupport_Nov12.pdf

[LAX_LHR]

It seems BA citiflyer has taken back the Saturdays only MAN-OLB flights off Flybe.

Flights re-commence 6th July.

[JackRalston]

PIA709 7700'ed over North Sea, circled near GOLES FL160 and now heading south towards STN, apparently Typhoons have been scrambled and a pax has refused to be identified :uhoh: