MANCHESTER - 9

[rutankrd]

The understanding is the evening Manchester departure (EK020) from the autumn of 2013.
This connects with the onward departures to Australia and the sub continent, and the Middle East regional flights

[johnnychips]

Been busy. Thanks for all replies.

How about Jet2, they're fairly early from MAN, don't know how they compare to MON's timings, or if you're coming over from Donny what about looking at flights from Leeds Bradford?

The first train from Donny gets in at 0730ish, but if you need to be quicker you can get off at Stockport and take a taxi for about £15, which will deliver you to terminal door. Never thought about Leeds/Bradford as I always take public transport, and just expect this will be inconvenient.

I assume the Helvetica flight will be a bit slower using the Fokker than the previous Swiss Airbus so won't connect. There used to be a Swiss/BMI flight via Basel, but that's gone.

Not worried about a smaller plane's capacity to offer business-class service: indeed I got a Swiss RJ from Basel to Barcelona on the second leg of my journey from MAN once and got great meals and champagne all the way. Might be something to do with the fact that the only other business-class passenger was obviously a Swiss executive - still, serendipity!

[Seljuk22]

Egyptair will launch 5 weekly CAI-MAN with B738 from 1st June

[nigel osborne]

Congratulations to Manchester for securing a new Egypt Air service and what a nice present to announce on XMAS day.:D

Nigel

[crewmeal]

At last a decent way to travel to the ME withouth having to go through LHR. Mind you they are a dry airline. A small price to pay me thinks!

[MANLEJ]

Just noticed that a us 762 has diverted in on its way to Boston. Anyone know the reason?

[eggc]

Technical issue, however not an emergency, but enough for them to want it sorting before they headed across the pond. It circled the hold for nearly an hour and half burning fuel before it actually made it into MAN !

[Rawtenstall]

I have just booked MAN to SIN on Finnair, and note from the confirmation supplied that the MAN - HEL leg departing 17:50 is operated by Flybe. However I can't see that Flybe operate between MAN and HEL so I wonder, is this flight operated using Flybe or Finnair aircraft?

Interestingly the ticket was very materially cheaper than the equivalent Singapore Airlines option, so a 75 minute layover in HEL seems a small price to pay for what is a considerable saving.

[rutankrd]

Its operated by FLYBE Nordic subsidiary and is NOT a codeshare.

FLYBE Nordic operate two EMB 170s in full Finnair colours and crew the EMB190s under a rather complex ACML lease back arrangement where the Finnair owned aircraft operate Finnair flights but on the FLYBE Nordic AOC !

[MKY661]

Just had a look at some info on a new livery for Afriqiyah Airways and it says that at the bottom that they plan to start direct services to Manchester once they are allowed in EU airspace. Sounds interesting:
PICTURE: Afriqiyah Airways unveils new livery (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/picture-afriqiyah-airways-unveils-new-livery-380455/)

[WestofEMA]

I have a relative on the US735 flight tomorrow to PHL. It looks like the US734 on 2nd was delayed and the US735 only left today with big delay. The flight to PHL today also scheduled to be 5 hours late, but incoming flight seemed to be on time. Anyone know any details?

[OltonPete]

http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/alldocs/4CA66B1CDD0CE07A80257AE9004C950D/$File/December+12.pdf

Once again Domestic, International scheduled and Charter all up in December.

Movements & freight were down.

2012 Passengers - 19,841,236 up 4.48%

I would imagine some happy bunnies!

Pete

If the link won't open just cut and paste into your address bar.

[Bagso]

I would imagine some happy bunnies!

With constraints at LHR Manchester should really be going for it !

There seems to be too much reliance on the airlines themselves!

OK would be great to see another EK A380, possibility of pure EK cargo , plus extra Etihad and THY, but the return in other areas is still feeble!

[Suzeman]

With constraints at LHR Manchester should really be going for it !

There seems to be too much reliance on the airlines themselves!


And what makes you think that MAN are not "really going for it"?

The Airport provides the facilities and the climate for the airlines to operate and "sells" this to the airlines in a number of ways. It also works on the Government to get rid of the regulatory constraints such as bilaterals which constrain some airlines from doing what they want at MAN.

It's then up to the airlines to decide what to do and what is best for them bearing in mind that there loads of other airports touting for their business and they only have limited resources.

In the last couple of years MAN has experienced a resurgence of traffic, so someone must be doing a decent job, especially in the current economic climate.

Suzeman

[North West]

Of course they are "going for it" - it's just that "it" is no longer an ego trip about being an overflow for Heathrow. Getting in Ryanair & Easyjet brings in punters that spend in the shops and car parks and reduces or elimates capacity at competing airports. MAN is a natural 2nd choice for people that would consider LPL or LBA their 1st choice, If these people can't fly locally they come to MAN and spend in car parks and even hotels in a way that folks coming from Stockport clearly don't ! At the last count, MAN is getting something like £15 - £20 per passenger from people coming from outside of Greater Mcr and the combined opportunity of passengers using other Northern airports is about 10m. 10m x £20 = £200m to get at, per year, or £1bn over 5 years. Going for this, is a much more sensible strategy than wasting time trying to persuade BA or Virgin to develop a 2nd operating hub which quite obvioulsy they have no interest in.

[MKY661]

OK would be great to see another EK A380

There are rumours going round that the evening Emirates flight is changing from a 777 to an A380 very soon.

[Suzeman]

Anorak on

One B744 already been and gone. Rumoured next is an A340 next Saturday

Anorak off

Good for Air Livery to get this - good for jobs and the local economy :ok:

[LN-KGL]

With the second EK A380 the rumours also says an EK 777F will take care of the cargo demand.

[Bagso]

And what makes you think that MAN are not "really going for it"?

Suzeman I know you support MAN as I do, but I just think there is always room for improvement. Increasing the "national" profile, taking advantage of constraints down South and making sure there is optimisation of MAN long haul flights.

Despite Manchester perhaps being the largest employer direct or indirectly in the North of England projection through the national media still seems woeful, to me at least.

As an example when BAE, Sainsburys etc etc announce annual reports/figures they use it as a media opportunity to sell their services, we seldom here from the airport other than press releases in The Manchester Evening News. We hear about the mantra "20m pax inside 90 minutes" but all I am saying is surely more could be done to fly the flag and use opportunities like the release of annual figures to shout out the success and what Manchester offers.

I'm sure like you, you have google alerts set to "Manchester Airport" but bulletins in terms of new routes appear limited to a purely mancunian audience.

In terms of LHR we all know it's about extra runways at LHR, LGW or a new airport in the Thames but Manchester could take adavantage could it not....? MAG seem to think so ....

I read on another forum that in November the Government transport select committee sat to hear representations from indutry and interested parties on this UK "Wide" aviation review. CEOs from LHR LGW STN as well as airlines leaders attended, I checked the minutes myself, but where was Manchester...OK we all know its about LHR but if it is a "UK wide review" lets get our voice heard.

This was especially galling when in my view there was disproportionate representation by HACAN, RSPB, Stop Stansted etc CRUCIALLY at the same time.

OK they deserve to be heard but if they have platform on the top table why not Manchester ?

Hopefully MAN will get chance down the line BUT personally I think they should have been banging the table to be in attendance at that hearing, either it's a UK review or it isnt.

If we do appear in the future I suspect we will be included with BHX. GLA etc which simply reinforces the perception of being merely another regional airport.

We all know the Governement pays lip service to "regionals" this simply mean MANs potential contribution is totally lost, despite that fact it could handle another 20m pax NOW!

One other point the airports OWN ticketing portal has also come in for criticism and one can see why. On the one hand we have senior management wanting more long haul flights but then offering a means of booking which is loaded to cheapest price.

Cheapest usually means the offer of a connection VIA AMS, CDG FRA etc so our direct flights are there, but rely on the viewer making some fairly precise choices to track them down as they are lost in a fog of cheaper deals.

The same web site engine is used at other regional airports and is always geared to the "lowest common price denominator". That fine for them as they don't have a significant raft of direct flights they are trying to promote.

By contrast the LHR ticketing portal isvery much geared to LHR> XYZ first and price second.......

[Skipness One Echo]

We all know the Governement pays lip service to "regionals" this simply mean MANs potential contribution is totally lost, despite that fact it could handle another 20m pax NOW!

I don't think Manchester Airport is seen as being quite as regional as you make out. The key issue is that MAN already has strategic growth infrastructure in place.
MAN is the LHR of the local area in that it dominates and sucks in traffic from the catchement areas of LPL / LBA / NCL / GLA even, and it got the infrastructure in place to grow. It's not a serious contention that STN needs to grow or indeed SEN or even LCY by much, strategically it's LHR / LGW market driven growth driver we're trying to get kick started with more capacity.

trying to persuade BA or Virgin to develop a 2nd operating hub which quite obvioulsy they have no interest in.
Worth considering what the market will support. Can MAN support a VS long haul hub? LGW can't do that and they don't really hub at LHR. People always say they'd be willing to pay "a wee bit more" for a quality service then go and book the cheapest deal possible......

LHR recently got a weekly EK B77F on a Saturday as they've gone all A380 now so wouldn't surprise me.

[easyflyer83]

I think people get hung up on the term 'regional'. It's a very British, non aviation term and simply means an airport outside London. In that sense, whilst LBA, LPL don't come anywhere close to MAN, MAN is still a regional airport in the strictest sense. I don't like the term either but I think many are associating the term with the size of an airfield/facility which is misguided.

[mickyman]

Its a bit like that monty python sketch where they are stood in a line
John Cleese is Heathrow.I look up to him because......

[LN-KGL]

I would not recommend using the Airport Direct Travel's flight search engine on the Manchester Airport site to find tickets. As an example I've checked a one way flight from MAN to OSL on Monday 14 January, and out came a minimum price tag of £223. This same ticket can be bought on British Airways' website for £163 - in other words £60 cheaper than on the MAN site. Even cheaper offers you can get at Brussels Airlines' website with a price tag of £156 and the MAN site wanted £249 for the same ticket (£93 over price!). The two airlines that offer direct flights between the two cities suffer the same fate on the MAN site; Norwegian over priced with £75 and SAS over priced with the substantial amount of £133.

I can't understand that MAN even dare have such a poor service on their website. For one it creates bad PR but the worst part is that it fuels suspicions that MAN throughout is over priced.

[CabinCrewe]

I hope you have let those that can do something about it know directly...?

[Suzeman]

Despite Manchester perhaps being the largest employer direct or indirectly in the North of England projection through the national media still seems woeful, to me at least.

As an example when BAE, Sainsburys etc etc announce annual reports/figures they use it as a media opportunity to sell their services, we seldom here from the airport other than press releases in The Manchester Evening News.

BAE is a multinational company with its HQ in London and is one of the world's largest defence companies. I'm sure many pension funds and City bods are interested in what they are doing. And the HQ is in London......Sainsbury's has over 1000 stores across the country and employs 150,000 people. What happens there is no doubt of interest to people all over the UK. Of course when they have news it is likely to get into the national media.

By comparison Manchester Airport is much less likely to attract national attention as it is a much smaller scale and its impact is relatively localised in UK terms. I'm sure MAN has good links with the local and national press, but for the latter (except specialist publications and websites) most MAN stories will be a low priority and may only be used as a filler on a slow news day if space permits.

It will be interesting to see what happens this week with the release of the annual traffic stats - the figures are on line but no press release yet.

I read on another forum that in November the Government transport select committee sat to hear representations from indutry and interested parties on this UK "Wide" aviation review. CEOs from LHR LGW STN as well as airlines leaders attended, I checked the minutes myself, but where was Manchester...OK we all know its about LHR but if it is a "UK wide review" lets get our voice heard.

This was especially galling when in my view there was disproportionate representation by HACAN, RSPB, Stop Stansted etc CRUCIALLY at the same time.

OK they deserve to be heard but if they have platform on the top table why not Manchester ?

Hopefully MAN will get chance down the line BUT personally I think they should have been banging the table to be in attendance at that hearing, either it's a UK review or it isnt.

If we do appear in the future I suspect we will be included with BHX. GLA etc which simply reinforces the perception of being merely another regional airport.

Sorry - you are wrong here. MAN attended the hearing on 10th December. 117 parties submitted written evidence; about 30 were called to give oral evidence. Interesting that Willie Walsh had a session all to himself....

Oral evidence - UK Parliament (http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/transport-committee/inquiries/parliament-2010/aviation/oral-evidence/)

I assume the transcript will appear soon for the 10th December as it has for the other hearings.

A lot of the influencing of the regulators to allow things to happen is done away from the gaze of the press, so just because you haven't seen something in the media doesn't mean that nothing is happening.

And please remember that Geoff Muirhead (ex CEO of MAG) is the ONLY AVIATION member of the 5 person Davies Commission on UK Airport capacity set up by the Government to kick a SE airport capacity decision into the long grass until after the next election.......

However, it is disappointing to read about the shortcomings of the Airport's ticketing portal - not good at all when you can book a direct flight for substantially less by going on the airline's website as LN-KGL has outlined.

[LN-KGL]

Suzeman:
However, it is disappointing to read about the shortcomings of the Airport's ticketing portal - not good at all when you can book a direct flight for substantially less by going on the airline's website as LN-KGL has outlined.

It is not commmonly known that many airlines offer the best prices only on their own website, but there are search engines that pick up this. The one MAN have chosen don't.

[Bagso]

Hi Suzeman

If there has been a hearing in December apologies , because it was missed at this end, but is that not the very essence of the argument ..?

I checked the first representations, these were up until the end of November, it was the FIRST one which was televised on the Parliament channel, infact the hearing can/could still be seen by video link on the minutes section.

Quite interesting !

I cannot recall off-hand but I "think" it was 23rd 24th, it was two back to back days when Willie Walsh , possibly Virgin, the CEOs of LHR, LGW and STN all had their day in court CRUCIALLY THEY WERE FIRST UP, I would expect nothing less in this country BUT hang on why the hell were then followed by a motley collection of environmentalists !


OK it is not the airports fault but these other organisations were called in first, clearly because there is a feeling that their case deserves to be heard.

..are HACAN, RSPB etc really shouting louder than Manchester ?

My view is that Manchester is as important as LHR, LGW STN in this debate so should be banging the drum as indeed it did in the 80s.

I don't get Why do we have to be so subservient ?

Surely somebody s/b saying.....

"look we have infastructure in place",
"we have demand"
"we have the population centre in the catchment area ",
" we have the thee best transport and domestic airlinks (twice as many as LHR and LGW), and whilst Manchester is NOT the answer to capacity in the South East it could alleviate some of the problems with some Government impetus".

I disagree with your analogy that a 5minute slot about "Pension Funds" and "The City" is the driver to a platform on BBC Breakfast, 5LiveMoney, WakeuptoMoney etc although maybe BAe and Sainsburys were poor examples, but there are plenty of other much, much smaller organisations than Manchester Airport that get good airtime...

is there a larger employer direct or otherwise in the North Of England ?

.... get on the phones to Declan Curry, Andrew Verity and sell how important this is !

It's about not accepting second or third best, or the fact that we somehow have to work within the framework that's dictated to us...

Its about turning round perceptions AND not accepting what you think you need to hear !

Inform them that 40,000 people are dependent on employment at Manchester,
20m people live within the catchment area,
AND thee largest building project since the Olympics is about to get underway etc etc...

...is that 3rd item really not newsworthy ?

To get your voice heard you need to bang on doors...... I do earnestly believe that eveyybody is doing there best, but there is just an impression that we are pusssyfooting about too much.

If they are banging on doors, well why not "let us know". Micheal O Leary would....

Charlie Cornish was unequivocal in his condemnation of BA in a press release in November , it was thee best statement from the airport in years !
Direct and to the point !

I appreciate a major organisation may not want to air dirty washing in public but nothing changes MPs attitudes like bad publicity, being nicey nicey will simply not work !

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "I don't think Manchester Airport is seen as being quite as regional as you make out. The key issue is that MAN already has strategic growth infrastructure in place.
MAN is the LHR of the local area in that it dominates and sucks in traffic from the catchement areas of LPL / LBA / NCL / GLA even, and it got the infrastructure in place to grow. It's not a serious contention that STN needs to grow or indeed SEN or even LCY by much, strategically it's LHR / LGW market driven growth driver we're trying to get kick started with more capacity."


Quote: "I think people get hung up on the term 'regional'. It's a very British, non aviation term and simply means an airport outside London. In that sense, whilst LBA, LPL don't come anywhere close to MAN, MAN is still a regional airport in the strictest sense. I don't like the term either but I think many are associating the term with the size of an airfield/facility which is misguided."


Quote: "Its a bit like that monty python sketch where they are stood in a line
John Cleese is Heathrow.I look up to him because......"

MAN is much more than a regional airport, it is a major European airport along with the likes of LGW, ORY, NCE, DUB, BCN, MUC, CPH, BRU, ZRH, VIE, etc., perhaps a little lower in the pecking order than MUC.

As for LHR, it is in a different league altogether i.e. the small group of world international airports, along with (in Europe) AMS, CDG, FRA and MAD.

[easyflyer83]

Regional in the UK simply means outside London. I.e situated in the regions. The term regional is not a term that describes the size of a facility though many misinterpret it as such. The term has traditionally been used extensively by the IT operators to promote the fact that they offer regional departures. MAN is a regional departure point.

[Suzeman]

Sorry everyone - this goes on a bit :{

I cannot recall off-hand but I "think" it was 23rd 24th, it was two back to back days when Willie Walsh , possibly Virgin, the CEOs of LHR, LGW and STN all had their day in court CRUCIALLY THEY WERE FIRST UP, I would expect nothing less in this country BUT hang on why the hell were then followed by a motley collection of environmentalists !

Bagso old bean - no need whatsoever to get your knickers in a twist about this as there is NO BENEFIT in being first up. In fact coming up later can be an advantage as you may wish to refer to evidence from previous witnesses (which the MPs like because it shows you are taking it seriously). As a seasoned observer of this committee (and one time witness) although some years ago, the hearings are generally arranged on themed lines so they can ask questions pertinent to the group. Usually 3,4 or 5 witnesses at a time grouped around the same type of business and only 30-45 minutes for each group.

In such a short timescale ,would you really want a Manchester witness to appear with all the London crowd? The Manchester message would get swamped by all the disagreements about what to do in London and the SE itself - just watch the video or read the transcript! Whilst I've not seen the video with MAN in as it won't load on my PC and the transcript is not yet available, I'm sure the message about the role airports outside London can play would come over loud and clear in the hearing Manchester was involved in as all the witnesses apart from NATS were from airports outside the SE.

The process is as follows

Interested parties submit written evidence
Transport Committee pledges to scrutinise the Government (http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/transport-committee/news/aviation---tor/)

and the Committee then decide which parties to interview.

All hearings are televised and transcripts published
Oral evidence - UK Parliament (http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/transport-committee/inquiries/parliament-2010/aviation/oral-evidence/)

So who has been giving oral evidence?

First hearing was on 19 November 2012

Witnesses: Sian Foster, General Manager, Government & External Relations, Virgin Atlantic Airways, Paul Simmons, UK Director, easyJet, Simon Buck, Chief Executive, British Air Transport Association; - so airlines.

Then Michael O’Leary, Chief Executive Officer, Ryanair, Dale Keller, Chief Executive Officer, Board of Airline Representatives in the UK, Otto Grunow, Managing Director, Finance Europe and Pacific, American Airlines, and Malcolm Day, Sales & Marketing Manager, UK & Ireland, Air China; - so more airlines

Then Mark Tanzer, Chief Executive, Association of British Travel Agents, Andrew Cooper, Director, Government & External Affairs, Thomas Cook Group, and Eddie Redfern, Head of Regulatory Affairs (Aviation), TUI Travel PLC - so tour operators and IT airlines.

Next on Monday 3 December 2012

Witnesses: Colin Matthews, Chief Executive Officer, Heathrow Airport, Stewart Wingate, Chief Executive Officer, Gatwick Airport, Glyn Jones, Managing Director, Luton Airport, and Nick Barton, Managing Director, Stansted Airport; - so London Airports

and Tim Johnson, Director, Aviation Environment Federation, Anthony Rae, Friends of the Earth, John Stewart, Chair, HACAN, Brian Ross, Stop Stansted Expansion, and Peter Barclay, Vice-Chairman, Gatwick Area Conservation Campaign - so environmental organisations who have to be involved whether you like it or not as they have some valid points to make - and would cry foul if they did not get a hearing.

Tuesday 4 December 2012

Witness: Willie Walsh, Chief Executive Officer, British Airways

Monday 10 December 2012 - with timings

1605 - Witnesses: Andrew Haines, Chief Executive, Civil Aviation Authority, Simon Hocquard, Operational Strategy & Deployment Director, NATS, Richard Deakin, Chief Executive Officer, NATS; - so regulators and airspace policy.

1645 - Robert Sinclair, Chief Executive Officer, Bristol Airport Ltd, Paul Kehoe, Chief Executive Officer, Birmingham Airport, Andrew Harrison, Chief Operating Officer, Manchester Airports Group; so all regional airports or airports outside London if you prefer

1725 -Graeme Mason, Planning and Corporate Affairs Director, Newcastle International Airport Ltd, Craig Richmond, Chief Executive Officer, Peel Airports and Regional Executive, Vantage Airport Group, Derek Provan, Managing Director, Aberdeen Airport, Darren Caplan, Chief Executive, Airport Operators Association - more regional airports.

No transcript has yet been produced for this hearing, no doubt due to the holidays, but the video is here
Player (http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=12053)

The next hearing is on 14 January 2013
4:05 pm
Subject: Aviation Strategy
Witness(es): Rhian Kelly CB, Director of Business Environment, Confederation of British Industry, Mike Spicer, Senior Policy Adviser, British Chamber of Commerce, Corin Taylor, Senior Economic Adviser, Institute of Directors, John Dickie, Director of Strategy and Policy, London First and Stuart Fraser, Deputy Chairman of Policy and Resources, City of London Corporation; - so national and London business associations.

Then Emma Antrobus, Policy Manager, Greater Mancheser Chamber of Commerce, Jerry Blackett, Chief Executive Officer, Birmingham Chamber of Commerce, Garry Clark, Head of Policy and Public Affairs, Scottish Chamber of Commerce and Paul Gilbert, Chairman, International Trade Committee, Liverpool Chamber of Commerce; - so regional business organisations

Then Christopher Snelling, Head of Urban Policy, Freight Transport Association, Andrew Walters, Chairman, London Biggin Hill Airport and Brandon O'Reilly, Chief Executive Officer, TAG Farnborough Airport - freight ad business aviation

All this info is available on the Transport Committee website
Transport Committee - UK Parliament (http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/transport-committee/)

The Committee has an independent adviser who helps frame the questions they are looking at and the Committee publishes them in advance
Transport Committee pledges to scrutinise the Government (http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/transport-committee/news/aviation---tor/)

The independent adviser also assists the Committee in the formulation of the final report. Findings are reported to the Commons, printed, and published on the Parliament website. The government then usually has 60 days to reply to the committee's recommendations - and of course is not bound by the findings......

Its about turning round perceptions AND not accepting what you think you need to hear !


It certainly is - I think we just disagree how it is done - you want it all out in the open whereas what you have to do first is influence the policy makers and that is often best done initially away from the media gaze. Negotiating in public tends not to go down too well. If that doesn't work however, you can then resort to the media if necessary - such as the campaign to get Singapore A/L traffic rights many years ago.


AND thee largest building project since the Olympics is about to get underway etc etc...


Remind me what that is please?

but there is just an impression that we are pusssyfooting about too much.If they are banging on doors, well why not "let us know". Micheal O Leary would....


I'm afraid when it comes to policy influencing, why should they let you or I know exactly what is going on?. If there needs to be public involvement, such as with the Airport's campaign on APD, we will find out. This is just what O'Leary does - he doesn't always negotiate in public - only when it suits when he doesn't get his way. And there is not much evidence to suggest he has been successful - in fact I suspect he has antagonised more policy makers than not, which means his ideas may well be given less weight.

And finally (thank goodness for that)
I appreciate a major organisation may not want to air dirty washing in public but nothing changes MPs attitudes like bad publicity, being nicey nicey will simply not work !

Being nicey, nicey to MPs DOES work. You see they are NOT the policy makers. The policy makers who you need to influence first of all are the Sir Humphreys of this world (in this case at the DfT) and the Government's special advisers. You need to get your viewpoint over when policy is being made, not after the event. When they go off piste on policy and do something detrimental to your business as sometimes happens, it is often pressure from MPs that can change things.

So keeping MPs on side is usually a sensible thing for businesses to do. For example how many MP's around the region supported the second runway? Or the MAG campaign to ease bilateral constraints? Without MPs "on side" putting pressure on the policy makers, some of the achievements of previous years might never have happened. And if they want, they can say that they have achieved something for their constituencies.

Also note that there are 3 MPs from Greater Manchester on the Committee, which means that the MAN viewpoint on aviation and airport strategy will be well known. Would you want them or your side or not?

Suzeman

[Bagso]

great reply Suzeman, always worth checking your comments/responses and this is no different.

Re Olympics i have put a "link" here, although to be fair it does say significant rather than largest BUT I have heard a spokesmen quote largest (poss, Radio Manchester) but suspect the wordage was, shall we say subsequently manipulated.

CBRE: UK - News Detail (http://www.cbre.co.uk/uk_en/news_events/news_detail?p_id=13083)

[Suzeman]

Thanks for the link Bagso

I hadn't actually thought about Airport City being of that scale, but you are right - it is a very major infrastructure investment. I'm sure that once the investment partners are sorted out there will be publicity and more marketing to follow with hopefully some exposure in the national media. That is one story that should be there as it's a first for the UK.

Suzeman

[JackRalston]

Not having a good day the PK flight, PIA702 left MAN 4hrs late and it's just diverted into AMS, splendid!

[LBIA]

I understand that last nights PIA702 service from MAN was in fact planned to call into AMS to pick up extra pax.

[awwdabaaby]

Just a quick question, when the Commonwealth Games were held in Manchester, did the athletes fly to Manchester or did they transit through LHR?

[Ringwayman]

Virtually all transited.

[doublesix]

The only aircraft that I can recall that was out of the ordinary was a Qantas 747.

[LN-KGL]

Weren't the visits of the Qantas 747 charters for some religious sect then?

[SWBKCB]

Different visits!

[Bagso]

With credit to the poster on the BHX thread

BBC Democracy Live - Transport Committee (http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/21024439)

Don't want to be a wise old owl Suzeman but again are we not being lumped in with the also-rans ?

It's easy to criticise from my armchair so I will anyway, I thought the Manchester contribution was shocking;

Somewhat lacklustre
Rather passionless
Hesitant at times
Poorly delivered
Dullish

I got the impression we were hanging onto the coat-tail of the Birmingham chap at times.

I appreciate she wasn't there as a representative of MAG as such but I do thing a bit of coaching would not have gone amiss. It wasn't exactly the lions den was it ?

These presentations are an opportunity for MPs to gather information, they are also an opportunity to sell the greater use of Manchester, there was a reference to 22m pax in 2 hours etc but it was delivered with little passion.

There were no propositions put forward even when some "leading questions" were offered up !

[Suzeman]

Oh dear - here we go again

Don't want to be a wise old owl Suzeman but again are we not being lumped in with the also-rans ?


Please watch it all again and then tell me where the Manchester viewpoint would fit in if it was not with non SE-England Chambers? Do we really want the MAN viewpoint in with that of the SE where the issues are completely different? Can't you see that the questions to each group are framed to elict answers from their distinct perspective and the questions to the SE group were almost all different to those asked to the regional representatives. For example, whereas the SE group (after pussyfooting around) were asked directly (by Graham Stringer) where there should be extra runways in the SE, the regional reps were merely asked whether they supported a UK hub.

You are looking at this from "a big headline for the public" perspective whereas the name of this game is to get your case across to those who make and can change policy.

I thought the Manchester contribution was shocking;

Somewhat lacklustre
Rather passionless
Hesitant at times
Poorly delivered
Dullish

I'm afraid you are right - there were some good points but not well put over

I got the impression we were hanging onto the coat-tail of the Birmingham chap at times.


Chief Executive he may be, but he was poorly briefed on aviation issues, had to admit he didn't understand much about aviation policies and when caught out about hubs for example, was flannelling quite a lot. The Committee are no fools and this wouldn't have gone un-noticed. He was very passionate about his area though and did get some good general points over, especially at the end.


I appreciate she wasn't there as a representative of MAG as such but I do thing a bit of coaching would not have gone amiss.


Many of the points made by MAN were not re-iterated by the Manchester lady which is a shame. This could also be said for the other CC reps as well when compared with the evidence from their airports. I would have thought that coordination between the two would have been a given.

This lack of coordination also seems to also come out in the written evidence.

Aviation Strategy (8th November 2012) (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmtran/writev/aviation/m44.htm)

Aviation Strategy (10th January 2013) (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmtran/writev/aviation/m44a.htm)

Aviation Strategy (8th November 2012) (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmtran/writev/aviation/m25.htm)

There were no propositions put forward even when some "leading questions" were offered up !

Indeed - very surprising! I would have thought that each of them would have had a hit list of relevant points and jumped in with great speed - but alas no. I couldn't believe that nobody mentioned bilaterals until Stringer brought it up - at least he has been well briefed on this subject by MAN over the years.

The two business aviation guys in the last group were much more on the ball and in particular the chap from Farnborough was very impressive, answering the questions instead of flanneling and providing numerous facts and figures to support his case.

We'll see what the report turns up, but there are 3 local to MAN MPs on the Committee, plus Louise Ellman comes from Liverpool and with other regional MPs too I'm sure that the regional and particularly MAN contribution to airport capacity will be recognised.

The Select Committee process is designed to examine Government policy and to seek to influence change, not to sell airports to the public. That is best done by the Airports themselves and if constraints rules and regulations have been relaxed by Government, the airports will have more to sell and more headlines to make.

Cheers
Suzeman

[arai]

QFA 747's were weekly visitors from the first service back in 83 until the late 90's. So a QFA 744 visiting for the Commonwealth games was certainly not an "unusual visitor" Not commonwealth games related but a sports link nonetheless, the North Korean IL62 that made 2 visits to drop off and pick up the teams for the World Student Games in Sheffield was fairly rare on this side of the Iron Curtain....

[Bagso]

suzeman

here we go again.....indeed

That said I agree wholeheartedly with your observations.:ok:

To honest I think we agreed on all points ? well nearly !

Yes the make up of the committee is somewhat strange but hey lets not complain, all the more reason to argue the case supporting Manchester NOT at the expense of LHR but in tandem.

I am non political but I was suprised how much the MPs are aware, OK few odd Qs but on the whole quite keyed in (being candid,somewhat more than the spokeman who was "supposed" to be fighting our corner).

Must confess I skimmed the first bit.

Graham Stringer has suggested in two different debates now that Manchester s/b removed from Bi lateral agreements, I "thought" many restrictions had been removed, but clearly he seems to be under the impression that this is still a real issue ? It went under the radar with our Girl and yet is a clear priority in MAG strategy !

Lucy Powell appeared quite clued up as well considering she has only been an MP for a few months, although I appreciate she is Manchester based.

She mentioned the Emirates A380 service, but how this was at one point referenced as a "tourist attraction" is beyond me? Maybe I'm being a bit over critical and should lighten up but MAN is crucial to the NW economy,we are not a bloody novelty act !

At one point I got the distinct impression that the committee were almost putting things on a plate asking ;

"well what can we do for you"

Really thought we could have used that opportunity ?

My God where do we start APD, US Pre Clearance..........

I was also dismayed when they asked about the LHR problem near the end, whilst fully appreciating that the majority view is another RW/airport down there.

Instead of issuing a very firm rebuttal and a bit of positive spin toward MAN I got the distinct impression she was a bit non-plussed and suggested.

"business just needs a decision"

wasn't quite what she meant by that but it came over more as "exasperated of Tonbridge Wells, rather than somebody committed to the cause !

PS Cheers for the links re minutes.

[Suzeman]

Mr Bagso

I am non political but I was suprised how much the MPs are aware, OK few odd Qs but on the whole quite keyed in (being candid,somewhat more than the spokeman who was "supposed" to be fighting our corner).


Every Select Committee has an independent expert adviser who assists the MPs and helps frame the questions. In this case, the expert is one of the foremost experienced aviation policy consultants in the country and is well aware of regional airport issues.

Graham Stringer has suggested in two different debates now that Manchester s/b removed from Bi lateral agreements, I "thought" many restrictions had been removed, but clearly he seems to be under the impression that this is still a real issue ?

Obviously still is a problem, as Manchester submitted additional evidence after their appearance (still no transcript of this day and still can't get the video to work!), so presumably they mentioned something and were asked to expand on it. Its the link to 10th January I posted earlier. There are some interesting things in there - looks like DfT are still proposing open skies on regional airports, but then they have been proposing it for the last 10 years at least. Also evidence of the difficulties encountered over gaining 5th freedoms to make routes viable.

She mentioned the Emirates A380 service, but how this was at one point referenced as a "tourist attraction" is beyond me? Maybe I'm being a bit over critical and should lighten up but MAN is crucial to the NW economy,we are not a bloody novelty act !

It is a tourist attraction at the Runway Viewing Park, arriving daily at lunchtime. Many people don't have the opportunity to see it up close anywhere else. The RVP is in the top 10 most visited tourist attractions in Greater Manchester at about 300,000 per year - figures for 2011 show it only a few thousand behind the Man Utd museum......

What she could have said about Emirates is that not only have they introduced the flagship A380, but also a third frequency in the last year or so and now offer First Class on all flights. It shows that people trust the hub in Dubai as it has a good deal of resilience now and are willing to use the service. And it is obviously viable. So it can be done.

Finally another hearing is scheduled on 28th January as below. From the participants list it looks like they will be discussing some of the pie in the sky ideas about Boris Island and other proposed mega-hubs in the Thames Estuary. Should be some interesting questions for them I think .

Suzeman

MPs to hear evidence on Aviation Strategy - News from Parliament - UK Parliament (http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/transport-committee/news/aviation-strategy---6th-ev/)

[MAN777]

Cut and paste off Shannon thread, any comments ?


PK rumoured to reroute JFK and ORD through SNN from the summer.

I think JFK is via MAN currently but that could move to BCN and ORD via MAN when it resumes. I think SNN will have a good chance of securing both routes.

[j636]

It started on airlines.net, metion of a GLA restart to.

PIA Routes Rumor / Update — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5664611/)

Will MAG offer somthing better to keep them if they were to move, I can't see SNN having a lot to offer as it would not benefit the airport a lot. Only thing is if USPC is cheaper to do it in SNN than the US that could puch them towords SNN.

[MARK 101]

Isnt there an agreement between USA and Ireland that flights between them are classed as domestic for immigration purposes or is that only for EU/UK passport holders. Not sure if that would have any bearing

[crewmeal]

Will MAG offer somthing better to keep them if they were to move, I can't see SNN having a lot to offer as it would not benefit the airport a lot. Only thing is if USPC is cheaper to do it in SNN than the US that could puch them towords SNN.

Maybe they think their passengers can clear US immigration like BA's do at SNN:ugh:

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Isnt there an agreement between USA and Ireland that flights between them are classed as domestic for immigration purposes or is that only for EU/UK passport holders. Not sure if that would have any bearing"

Quote: "Maybe they think their passengers can clear US immigration like BA's do at SNN"

Correct me if this is wrong, but AFAIK, pre-clearance is for all nationalities as the USA arrival takes place at a domestic gate.

Think that this is the case at pre-clearance in Canada and Bermuda, so isn't it the same in Ireland?

If not, there would be little point in the arrangement!

[commit aviation]

Just announced that MAG have purchased Stansted for 1.5bn. Story on BBC news website

[LGS6753]

I can't see the taxpayers of Greater Manchester being very happy at their local authority spending £1,500,000,000 on an airport 200 miles away that's in serious decline. They have spent what GIP paid for Gatwick - a growing airport with a decent catchment area, a wide range of airline customers and over 33m passengers. And they have bought an under-invested, poorly-located airport in serious decline, dominated by the most aggressively competitive airline in Europe that won't hesitate to defend their position of dominance.

[daz211]

Trolls are out ! Didn't take them long.

[pwalhx]

LGS the deal is not funded solely by the tax payers of Greater Manchester there is a 1 billion deal with Australia's IFM.
Under the deal, which was conditional on the Stansted takeover going ahead, largest shareholder Manchester council would reduce its share in MAG from 55 per cent to 35 per cent. The remaining nine councils would jointly have a 30 per cent stake, down from 45 per cent.

[Skipness One Echo]

MAG works best when they focus laser like on Manchester Airport. Stansted will be a major challenge and managing that will, once again, mean some focus is lost on MAN.

[MUFC_fan]

MAG now have a good relationship with both of STN's biggest airlines.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Irish one starts to put more aircraft back into STN...

[vinnym]

FR will only do that if the price is right and then that alienates the other airlines

[JonF]

Used to like using the Escape lounges before my holiday, was worth the outlay for a bit of peace and quiet. Unfortunately will no longer be able to as my 5 yr old no longer welcome. Why discriminate against all families when a few are unruly. Ask the misbehaving ones to leave. Easy!

Rant over

[Mr A Tis]

I just don't understand this purchase. Like Skippy says, it will be a distraction & the MAN focus will be lost.
Why anyone would buy an ailing airport dominated by one carrier I don't know.
The City council will also have lost their majority stake in MAN & the other councils will no doubt have their airport income reduced.
Surely this is the thin end of the wedge where MAN itself is eventually put up for sale & the MAG only connection with MAN will be the name.
If only the time, effort & resource had been ploughed into MAN instead of this folly.

[daz211]

It's a star buy ! A London airport with loads
Of space in a crowded market ...
Even if the go ahead was given today to build
A brand new hub airport in the London area
It is just to late like it or not stansted will have
To be used before to much longer and MAG
Has got a good deal in Stansted.

[pwalhx]

I agree why not encourage the £650 million Airport City project on the airports doorstep instead, oh sorry they are.
Both airports make a profit, which belies the ailing Stansted quote.

[FRatSTN]

Remember that Stansted is only the way it is now because the way that BAA have managed it. A lot of people say that Stansted is in decline because it is no longer subsidised by Heathrow's profits to keep it going and is ultimately a failing airport on it's own two feet. Absolutely not the case! BAA have clearly been using Stansted as an extra source of cash to develop Heathrow, hence the reason they battled to keep a declining airport and that several potential buyers came forward when put up for sale, because Stansted has a bright future under the right ownership.

At first, there may be a bit of Manchester's profits helping to put Stansted on the right track but I don't think you are going to lose passengers and airlines as a result. I really don't think Manchester is going to suffer as a result of this purchase. It's just yet another case of MAG succeeding in what it does. Well done MAG!:D

[nigel osborne]

Daz211

Reality check,

LCC dominate Stansted because BAA was able to heavily subsidise STN with profits from LHR keeping prices cheap.

Will MAG be able to do the same ?

Full fare airlines have tried time and again to make STN work, American Airlines SAS and more.There was so little business fare pick up they were forced to pull out quickly.

Its only full fare traffic that brings in big money so I am bemused as to why MAG have bought it.

The business community want to fly out of LHR not somewhere in the sticks that does not have airline alliance connections.

Perhaps freight is a way forward but surely any big increase at STN means less for Manchester Airport ?

Nigel

[daz211]

No No No !
I am not going into all this again ...
BAA never wanted Flag carriers at STN
STN was used to keep the for want of a better word
Flag carriers at LHR.
Many long haul flights worked at STN
Inc AA and CO, Maxjet and eos were doing fine
Until bad times hit all aviation and until BA and AA
got worried about the decline of their
Business class passengers...

Anyway time will tell but in my eyes this is the
Best news for STN and MAG ....

[Skipness One Echo]

daz211 are you aware that BAA took Air Canada and others to court in order to force them from LHR to STN? The new white elephant Terminal was built on thr back of LHR dominated group profits. It was built as a full service hub for Air UK, it was built for a market that never was.

Can MAG do for STN what GIP have done for LGW? Overcharge a loyal customer (BE) and lose three long haul carriers in a year to focus on LHR? LGW looks good but it's the same old market, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Do you see SAS, LH, AA coming back? If not, who? AA went in soley to kill off Eos and Maxjet. Sorry, just realised, this is better off on the Stansted thread.

[Fairdealfrank]

Which was it:

Was LHR subsidisng STN out of its profits, or was STN subsidising LHR for its infrastructure improvements?



At the risk of sounding tedious, there will be no dramatic increase in legacy longhaul at STN, for two reasons:

(1) premium business is at LHR and that's where carriers make their money;

(2) there is, and always will be, insufficient connectivity at STN.

It's the same at LGW, which legacy longhaul at LGW use as a "waiting room" until LHR slots become available, and at BHX, MAN, GLA, etc..

If and when carriers can make money, services from these airports will be available.

[FRatSTN]

At the risk of sounding tedious, there will be no dramatic increase in legacy longhaul at STN, for two reasons:

(1) premium business is at LHR and that's where carriers make their money;

(2) there is, and always will be, insufficient connectivity at STN.

I don't think Stansted will attract a great deal of long-haul although it may well get a bit. I think more winning traffic from Gatwick and Luton and attracting other short-haul airlines and LCC's.

Was LHR subsidisng STN out of its profits, or was STN subsidising LHR for its infrastructure improvements?

Heathrow's had in the last decade a new control tower, Terminal 5 and now doing the new Terminal 2 not to mention all the other improvements they've made. Stansted has had nowhere near the level of effort that Heathrow has had.

The fact that BAA spent 3 years fighting for an airport that continued to decline clearly shows that STN was subsidising LHR. There is no other reason as to why they would want to keep it if it was genuinely a failing airport with little growth in the future. The truth is, BAA (or Heathrow Ltd. as it is now) only have eyes for Heathrow. They didn't want to lose Stansted because it would effect how much they could spend on Heathrow. It's as simple as that. They can't have subsidised Stansted because they haven't invested nearly the amound that they have at Heathrow.

Anyway, point over. Need to remember that this is the Manchester thread.

[pwalhx]

Well said FR.

[Skipness One Echo]

What exactly did they need to invest in? It's in pretty good nick an not stacked out. It's a good operation. Like LGW, BAA fought to hang onto it to maintain a monopoly. LHR had been let go with no major work since T4 in 1985. BAA then built LGW North in 1988 and STN got the new terminal in ~1991. (Is that right?)

Investment spread across the group, exactly what will happen now. MAG have a London airport and some will now imagine they can take on LHR. Which is mad.

The challenge will be for MAN to hang onto focus and group investment for the core business. What's the betting they offer Emirates an unbeatable group deal to open STN-DXB?

[pwalhx]

Hardly rocket science that SOE as MAG have already mentioned Emirates recently as a target should they be successful.

[rutankrd]

Aegean are expected to join the merry band of *A scheduled carriers this summer (Previous operations were summer charters and these continue)

Scheduled

Aegean are showing Athens-Manchester- Athens
Flight No A3638/A3639 operated by A320

Mon and Sat Arrive Man 2020 Dep 21.05

Commences 25/5 through to 26/9 in current timetable

Yet another addition to the *A focus!

Yes its copy and paste from another place however contains salient points and of direct relevance to Manchester Airport Operations (As opposed to MAG Group - that deserves a unique thread now )

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Greetings PPRuNeR's!

I have resisted commenting on the grand acquisition announcement until now. And with good reason. I did not wish to write - in haste - a string of naughty words which would likely get me banned from here. Also, my * button is virtually worn out due to copious overuse elsewhere. And, having slept on the news, I find that the pool of blood from my slashed wrists is at last beginning to congeal. Computer keyboards and fluids just don't mix well. Thus, the time has come to (briefly) set aside the vimto and comfort food in public consideration of the prospects for this awkward marriage.

The MAG deal for Stansted is fantastic news! The MAG deal for Stansted is terrible news! In fact, both statements are quite correct. From a Stansted Airport perspective the deal is fantastic news. But from a Manchester Airport perspective the deal is an unmitigated calamity. East Midlands and Bournemouth Airports have plenty at stake too; this doesn't look good for them.

So this is a deal of winners and losers. For some elation, for others despair. It all depends on where you are standing and what factors best serve your personal agenda.

Being a secretive soul, there is much I haven't told you folks about myself. Foremost amongst the information withheld until now is the fact that I am not actually a human being. I am in reality the progenitor of an entirely new species - the Greater Ten-Toed Sloth [Slothus Mancunianus] - a creature with remarkable abilities to survive for long periods on only vimto and chocolate, and to forecast the future. Thus armed with the two key essentials of life, I shall set forth for you some of the consequences of this deal, exclusively revealing some of the key winners and losers as we go forward.

And, of course, heading the list, the biggest winner of all is our good friend MR MICHAEL O' LEARY. Whilst he is not noted for unrestrained spending on his staff, I do suspect that it will be champagne and crisps all round when he sets foot in Ryanair Towers on Monday morning. His life just got a whole lot easier in so many ways. And not just because Man City won again (astute man of good taste is our Michael). Multiple problems resolved at a stroke! Unbelievable maybe ... but it turns out that the turkeys really did vote for an early Christmas!

Just look at things from MOL's point of view. In the past, whenever he wanted to ensure ultra-cheap charges from the Stansted bods he had to disrupt operations at his own largest base ... pulling out planes, dropping routes ... pain now for gain later. Inconvenient, but necessary. Now that problem is resolved. Need to make a point to keep costs low at STN? But don't want to disrupt your biggest base operation? No problem! Just pull a bunch of planes out of MAN, EMA and BOH. It hurts the turkeys in the same wallet, but inconveniences just afew of Ryanair's regional ops rather than the main London base. Bargain! And you just know MAG'll have to bend over in the end. They're not very financially astute after all ... if there was any doubt before, paying one and a half bill GBP for STN has dispelled it. And each time you need a concession, Michael, just rinse and repeat. The beauty is the simplicity of it all. You get what you want and don't have to mess up the Stansted operation any more. What's not to like? No wonder the PPRuNe Stansted fanboys are elated! MAN, EMA and BOH will be completely screw ... I mean mightily inconvenienced ... but that is MAG's problem isn't it?

Just think about your future discussions with MAG, Michael. You'll be like the cocky Tomcat 'negotiating' with a wounded pigeon ... how your mouth must be watering! I'll bet you can't wait! Deep fried pigeon for dinner tonight!

But hold on ... could the introduction of MAG's extraordinary team of experts attract a raft of new competition to Stansted? After all, MAG must believe that STN's previous management were a bunch of numpties ... they will be able to do so much better with the introduction of their negotiating genius. The very same genius which knocked the STN price-tag down to a bargain 1.5 Bill! Competitors will surely be flocking into the STN honeypot based purely upon MAG's astounding marketing skills ... well no other factor has changed, has it?

I can just see the letters now:

Dear Air France / KLM,

MAG here. Your mates from Northern England. Remember us? That's right ... we're the guys who issue "No Diversions" NOTAM's just when you need us. Anyway, we've got this fantastic proposition for you. Why not fly from our shiny new airport at Stansted? Yes, its pretty close to the Channel Tunnel but don't let that put you off. And OK, its true that the most ruthless LCC in the world dominates the slots here and they've vowed to crush you into the deepest depths of Hell. But set against that the fact that we can offer you really low fees and a catchment area of afew folks who don't like trains or LHR ... it has to be a winner? Come and talk to us!

Love, MAG.


Dear Latehansa Group,

Is that name spelt correctly? There is a guy in the office here who tells us that is how you spell your name. Please come and fly from our shiny new airport at Stansted. It's really great, and the new MAG management team here is really talented ... we're financial whizzkids. Picked up Stansted for just 1.5 Bill. We're genii ... not like the last lot at all. They were so stupid they sold this jewel-in-the-crown airport for just 1.5 Bill. How we sniggered when their negotiators left the room! We robbed 'em! But anyway, back to the point. Come and fly your planes from Stansted. Apparently, there is a small number of passengers who would consider flying from here to Germany, Belgium, Switzerland and Austria with you. All you have to do is undercut Ruinair who have pledged a price war to cast you into the hottest fires of Mordor if you set so much as one tyre down on the runway they call their own. It's an unmissable opportunity. Call us!

Love, MAG.


Dear American Airlines,

Please fly from our shiny new airport at Stansted. It's run by MAG now, not that bunch of idiots who used to run it. They were so stupid we fooled 'em into selling cheap! Just 1.5 Bill. And that's Pounds, mate, not your cheapo Dollars, oh no! Anyway, now that we're in charge everything here is different. Remember how there were so few premium pax at STN when you tried here last time? Well, we believe that hanging the name "MAG" over the door will change all that for you! The punters will flood in. I know that you said you're now heavily invested with your partner Cockney Airways at Hounslow ... but hey, that's on the other side of London. So come on. Give us another go!

Love, MAG.


Dear Emirates,

Your mates at MAG here. We know that you fly frequently from two London airports already, but we were just wondering ... ? Err ... OK ... but we could do you a really great deal. I mean, say we let you fly in for free? What percentage of overall costs on a premium long-haul scheduled service do our airport user charges represent ... must be a MASSIVE saving for you, eh? Come on ... you know you want to!

Love, MAG.


Dear E t i h a d,

MAG here. Awfully sorry about hacking off your Abu Dhabi pals by snubbing their outstanding offer of investment in favour of an Australian Private Equity Fund. And after all you'd done for the Manchester area as well. But hey ... that's how the cookie crumbles! So anyway, we've got this amazing proposition for you ...

Love, MAG.


Dear DHL & UPS,

MAG here. We've just bought a fantastic airport in Essex called Stansted. Not on the M1, but it's really brill. We'd love you to move your UK operations to it. It's a bit of a cargo specialist, you know ... bound to be better than the rubbish place you use at the moment. Where's that again? Oh ... hold on a minute ... just forget all that! As you were. Have a nice day!

Love, MAG.


Dear Gatwick / Luton based IT Charter Behemoth,

Whilst we realise that you have massive fixed infrastructure investment in place at your current London bases which are perfectly located for your affluent South East customer base, we'd like you to consider a change ...

And you'd be head to head with Ruinair who have pledged to murder you and feed your rotting carcass to rabid dogs! Call us!

Love, MAG.


So, Mr O' Leary ... it looks like you are the big winner. But who else comes up smelling of roses? Well, Heathrow Holdings [BAA]. GBP1.5 Billion! What a deal. Who was your chief negotiator? Give that man a Knighthood! MAG ... hire him ... please! If he can be persuaded to work for a company that just blew 1.5 Bill!

Any other winners? Tough one.

So who loses out, then?

Well, for starters all those ratepayers residing in the ten boroughs which comprise Greater Manchester. Councillors ... don't you just love 'em? Instant experts on all topics ... civic pride to the fore ... pompous soundbites their stock-in-trade! And how the spokespeople for Greater Manchester's councils have welcomed this deal. "The acquisition of Stansted will help us to deliver maximum value for Manchester Council and the other local authority shareholders," says Sir Richard, knowingly. "This represents a good deal for local authority shareholders," says Lord Peter (who clearly recognises that STN is a mere snip at just GBP1.5 Billion). Nice words, chaps. Just one question, though. How are your plans for the post-airport dividend era progressing? You know, the bit where the money stops flowing in? It'll affect you a bit like the government cuts!

What about the other airports ... MAN, EMA and BOH. Big infrastructure investments required? Dream on! Poor Manchester ... not the main focus now, eh? Which brings us to another little conundrum.

Surely MAG - Manchester Airports Group - sounds far too parochial for this newly aggrandised organisation? A name change is in order! Hire expensive consultants to devise a new corporate image right now ... what's afew million to get something this important right? Some suggestions from me, though, to get the ball rolling. How about DEBTSLAVE GLOBAL CONCEPTS ... nicely descriptive and has a certain ring to it, don't you think? Or maybe HUBRIS HOLDINGS, reflecting the diversity of your portfolio? Or perhaps you would favour the new more eclectic type of name popularised by newcomers such as Moonpig and Red Spotted Hanky. I suggest WOUNDED PIGEON GROUP to reflect your status in the eyes of your largest customer.

What is the upside for Manchester Airport ... this is the Manchester thread, after all. Well, not much that I can see. Infrastructure investment limitations on the airport site itself (as opposed to Airport City office blocks) ... long-term debt concerns? Please reassure me if you can!

At least Manchester Airport itself will always be an asset with intrinsic value. Even if MAG withers in a future of higher interest rates, a falling pound, recession and debt service concerns, someone somewhere will always want the core asset. Maybe an investor from China, India or the UAE. The airport will still be here, waiting.

We may face a five year financial 'nuclear winter' in the meantime, but the airport will still be here. Doing its job. Sidelined. Underloved. Neglected. Unappreciated. Awaiting the heroes of a new era to restore the squandered legacy of the great Sir Gil Thompson and his predecessors.

Yesterday's announcement is comfortably the worst commercial news affecting Manchester Airport in my living memory. The withdrawal of BA based ops, the collapse of Intasun and XL, the Gulf War 1 downturn, the MAplc shunning of early LCC's, eco-fanaticism, recessions, industrial disputes, the decline of the package tour ... all dwarfed by this news. But MAN / EGCC will survive. It will remain a desirable asset even as it is sidelined by bonus-driven beancounters.

Time for another Vimto!

SHED.

Waiter! Fetch the Razor Blades!

[MAN777]

Shed

I take it you don't approve then ?

Without a doubt one of the best pieces from you so far:D

[ZOOKER]

MAN777,
Looking forward to my council-tax demand coming in. What with the A555 to pay for, and £600,000,000 for a new 'EGCC Airport Business Park', and a new control tower at Manch' and.....Oh Sh*t, £1,500,000,000 to buy Stansted.
Local authority greed mate.

[ZOOKER]

Shed,
Bang on the money. Loving your work. :ok:

[daz211]

Wonder if we can look forward to a air link
Between STN and MAN ...

[LAX_LHR]

Full timetable for Aegean flights to Athens:

A3638 ATH 1815 MAN 2020
A3639 MAN 2105 ATH 0250

Mondays and Saturdays using A320.

This is in addition to the Kefalonia Charter which also runs on Saturdays on behalf of Ionian and Aegean holidays:

A34550 EFL 0955 MAN 1200
A34551 MAN 1245 EFL 1815

A320 used.

Also, Orbest (Iberworld to the nostalgic) will run a weekly Palma from May on behalf of Thomas Cook:

IWD3415 PMI 0650 MAN 0825
IWD3416 MAN 0930 PMI 1230

Saturdays using a mix of A320 and A330 (various dates has A330 listed).

[LAX_LHR]

From 5th June, AA are once again using the B767-300 on the Chicago route.

Equipment is showing on AA website, but October not fully added yet, but will be in a few days.

[parky747]

Any plans for AA to upgrade the JFK service to 763 too?

[LAX_LHR]

Id say it is more likely to see a 2nd daily B757 to JFK.

The B767's are like gold dust at the moment, needed for core routes such as South America, so the fact MAN sees one on ORD in the summer is miraculous in itself.

[Manchester Kurt]

Zooker -
other than the council tax payer isn't paying for either are they?

Good bluster.

Poor facts.

[pwalhx]

As they say never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

[LGS6753]

Shed -

Ever tried writing professionally?

Brilliant post!

[Ringwayman]

Manchester Evening News take (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1598581_manchester-airport-buys-stansted---but-what-does-it-mean-for-you-we-find-out)

"The councils have not had to pay anything towards the deal, which is set to be finalised at the end of February. The cash has been raised through a combination of MAG selling a 35.5 per cent stake in itself to an Australian company called Industry Funds Management and agreeing a new debt package with its banks"

[LGS6753]

I've been wondering how MAG were so badly affected by hubris that they continued with their bid for STN. It seems to me that their corporate governance leaves something to be desired.

The MAG website has no Director profiles on it, but information is hidden away in the report & accounts. There is a main board comprising the key executive directors, plus a smattering of non-execs and a part-time non-exec chairman. So far, so good. However, despite its ownership by Manchester area councils, there is only one representative of the shareholder group on the board (was two until May 2012).

The sole representative of any Manchester area council is Bernard Priest, a Labour time-server who represents the inner-city ward of Ardwick. He seems to have no business or travel experience, and is a former FE lecturer.

Effectively the taxpayers of Greater Manchester, who own this business, have minimal representation on its board of directors. If I were a council taxpayer in that area I would be writing to my councillor asking how this state of affairs had arisen.

[mickyman]

Shed-on-a-Pole

There really is nothing much funnier than a northener with a chip on
the shoulder.

MM

[Suzeman]

However, despite its ownership by Manchester area councils, there is only one representative of the shareholder group on the board (was two until May 2012).


Dave Goddard had to resign in May 2012 as he lost his seat as leader of Stockport Council. As the annual report only covers up to March 2012, how do you know he hasn't been replaced?

And what about the shareholders committee on which all the 10 local authorities are represented?

And finally methinks you underestimate the influence of the majority shareholder....

The proof of the pudding for the locals will be whether the dividend is at least retained or preferably increased in future years. By which time the local reps probably have changed. Like all politics, it's light the blue touch paper, retire immediately and someone will pick up the bits (or sometime the rewards) later

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

mickyman -

Instead of treating us to another of your trademark vacuous one-liners, why not contribute your own in-depth analysis of the MAG-IFM-Stansted deal? Clearly you believe that my assessment of the situation is wide of the mark. So come on - I urge you - share with us the facts, data and analysis as you interpret them. I shall await your in-depth and absorbing response with great interest. This is your chance to enlighten me.

Regards, SHED.

[fjencl]

Does anybody know what destinations Small Planet airlines will be operating to this year on there A320 airbus, and what travel agents are using Small planet at manchester.....?????

I see they are recruiting for flight deck and cabin crew for MAN and LGW airports.

[LGS6753]

Suzeman -

You are quite correct - I do not know whether Dave Goddard has been replaced. But this demonstrates part of the problem - the control of MAG is opaque to the residents of Manchester, who own it. If MAG were a plc, there would be profiles of the Directors shown clearly on the website.

On the same issue, I found no mention of a shareholders' committee on the MAG website.

[pwalhx]

LGS are you a Greater Manchester resident, if not then why not let us tax payers of the County worry about it.

[rutankrd]

Small Planet will be flying for Olympic Holidays to various Aegean Isles, Preveza and Corfu

[rutankrd]

MAG Group is a registered PLC however the shareholders are the local boroughs and now an Australian Equity Company.

With a significant external ownership it is certain that LGGs (Whom resides somewhere nearer Luton/Harpenden) corporate governance issues WILL be addressed very soon.

Going forward the NEW MAG Group will be a different animal and those Ausies will want performance numbers and metrics set across the group.

Manchester and Stansted will remain separate business centres with their own Management teams and negotiators pricing formulas and objectives.

Some services may be traded intergroup accounts etc...

MAG may go out to sell the groups airports however actual negotiations will be local.

I also think that we can expect further dilutions of the LA ownership % in the coming years.

The existing Web sites are primarily marketing oriented rather than financial and shareholder tools.

The general commercial website is www.magworld.co.uk and reports and such like can be downloaded from there.

The annual report details all Executive and non executive directors and those the have left on page 36 including remunerations.

Changes and additional information is available on request and via the auditors KPMG.

MAG has a corporate governance policy statement.

One final thing MAG are currently the preferred bidder and the sale has some way to go for completion.

[MAN777]

found this on Shannon thread

PIA flights will operate on Tue, Thu, Sat into SNN 10.50,out 12.50 all B777-200ERLR.

[airadio]

Afternoon LAX LHR or should i say World Rep:rolleyes:

[virginblue]

Mundane question:

I am contemplating a self-built connection from Germanwings (T1) to Flybe (T3). Is it possible to stay airside when connecting between the two terminals if one only has handluggage and is already checked-in - or is it impossible because of a lack of passport control airside between the two terminals ? Connecting time would be a rather tight 90 minutes, but as the Germanwings flights would be the first of the day out of CGN with little risk of delay, I might take the risk if a smooth connection is possible at the MAN end.

[Ioniser]

Pax from low cost carriers generally cant use the airside transfer facility as those airlines dont pay for the service. Not sure whether this includes German Wings. If not , you will have to "land " and walk to T3 (@ 5 mins with hand baggage)

[750XL]

As said above you'll need to arrive, clear immigration than go back through security in T3

[JackRalston]

Seen a photo on facebook of the afternoon Qatar A330 surrounded by emergency vehicles on stand 202. Any ideas as to what happened? Looks like a possible fuel leak if you ask me?

EDIT: QR046 now showing next info 18:00 so clearly quite a serious issue!

ANOTHER EDIT: Just heard that it had a fuel leak which spilt onto the undercarriage and onto the brakes causing a fire (hopefully not)

[mickyman]

Shed

Re your post #322.

I read your post as an opinion and not as an analysis which used any
facts.The fact that you start from a position against the purchase is plain from your initial header.
Objective and unbiased opinions are nearly always in my 'opinion' better than rants from 'decided' people.
As you constantly refer to the North v South in your piece I can only
assume that the stereotypical 'chip' can be applied.

Good health!

MM

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

mickyman -

More sticks and stones from you, I see. Are you actually capable of posting aviation related observations rather than just launching personal attacks against those who actually contribute to the discussions on here? Since you apparently value 'analysis' so highly, I again invite you to address the core issues and post your own reasoned conclusions on the MAG - Stansted deal. Perhaps you could start by pointing out the part where I allegedly argue on the basis of 'North v South' (I don't remember that bit). Failing that, at least spare us your vacuous personal insults and stand aside in favour of contributors who demonstrate some knowledge of the topic.

Good health to you too.

SHED.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Not mentioned so far, so I'll do the honours. Manchester Airport is pencilled in to get a station stop on the proposed HS2 railway line. It's many years away at best, but sounds like positive news to me.

[116d]

Plans for the Manchester Airport station on HS2 can be found here...

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/69079/hs2-msg-ma0-zz-dr-rt-52805.pdf

[insuindi]

Due to the grounding of OLT LX mainline is now scheduled to fly all LX flights ex MAN with A319/320.

[mickyman]

Shed

On reading your post #322 again I find that I am completely in the wrong
about what you have said about the deal,and it appears that what you say is completely true and going to happen.I was initially worried that your
references to a doomsday scenario was scaremongering in the extreme.But I now realise that your comments spoke a lot of sense and should be taken as a warning of things to come.I thought stupidly that your references to 'Vimto' and 'Cockney Airways of Hounslow' and 'Brand new airport at Stansted' was an attempt to regionalise your argument - you being a mancunian and proud.
Having as I say re-read the post I can see that you really do have your finger on the pulse of this issue and are right to be worried that MAG have struck a bad deal mainly because of Michael O'leary and his airline and the pressure they can bring on financial doings.
I agree that the Abu Dhabi investment offer was the best idea but like you I have no vested interest and so bow to your superior knowledge on this matter?
I am sure that if you revealed yourself fully to us we would find that you are indeed a big wig in the industry and have chosen this forum to 'vent' on this subject - thanks.
Your insight and candor in this matter has enabled me and many others
to appreciate the grasp you have on this beffudlement.
Your reasons and strong argument with logical points are well developed and not atall kneejerk and flimsy to the point of being comical.

Good Health,

MM

[EGCA]

Sorry to post in amongst all this ongoing deep discussion about airport ownership and the like, but just listening to Radio 4 the reporter said that Manchester Airport will get its own HS2 station, (as the poster above mentions, with link) and Central London will be "less than an hour" away.

Is this not a game changer for thinking about London's airport capacity and what happens in the South East? I say that on the assumption that you have an airport in the North West with two long runways which I assume are not fully utilised....?

EGCA

[Bagso]

I think the Shed On a Pole posting was excellent actually.

Somewhat tounge in cheek but right on the money !

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "HS2: Less than an hour to Central London....
Sorry to post in amongst all this ongoing deep discussion about airport ownership and the like, but just listening to Radio 4 the reporter said that Manchester Airport will get its own HS2 station, (as the poster above mentions, with link) and Central London will be "less than an hour" away.

Is this not a game changer for thinking about London's airport capacity and what happens in the South East? I say that on the assumption that you have an airport in the North West with two long runways which I assume are not fully utilised....?

EGCA"

Don't believe that for a minute: they say London-Birmingham will be 50 minutes, a mere 9 minutes (max) more to Ringway? That's Ringway via Brum by the way! Maybe it's more sloppy journalism.


The diagram on that link isn't that clear, but it looks that the Ringway station isn't actually on the airport.

No it will have no bearing on the airport situation in the south-east. That will have to be dealt with many many years before the HS2 arrives at manchester in 2033 at the earliest.



Quote: "I think the Shed On a Pole posting was excellent actually.

Somewhat tounge in cheek but right on the money !"

Yes, also enjoyed it, very good indeed!

[spacedog]

Lets get real here. No train is going to take less than 60 mins to travel from Manchester to London approx 200 miles. If there was enough runway capacity at LHR a flight from Manchester should not take much than 45 minutes chocks to chocks.

For passengers travelling between Manchester and London it becomes a choice of what is more convenient. For a passenger in transit to an onward destination the airplane is the obvious choice.

Once/If the HS2 is approved between Manchester and London there will be very few alternatives to fly anywhere, other than point to point short haul / lo cost carriers catering for the masses.


The major revenue like it or not is generated from the south east and the Home Counties, nothing is about to change in the immediate future.
Yes Emirates Qatar and Teahad all doing very well out of Manchester all concentratiting on volume and feeding their hubs for onward connections.

The problem Manchester has is the same problem from 30 years ago, the airlines make more money per flight from LHR than they do from Manchester. Nothing in the foreseeable future changes this.

[danielsirrom]

Facts, figures and journey times | HS2 (http://www.hs2.org.uk/phase-two/facts-figures)

Journey time is quoted as 59 minutes.

Manchester Airport to central London is under 160 miles as the crow flies, 192 miles by road. If the trains travel at 225 mph why is there such doubt over the under an hour claim?

Dan

[KUEFC09]

Can someone please help me, how is the Manchester-Washington route doing? i am slightly concerned as i am flying this route in October, but everytime i look at seat maps etc flights only seem to be departing just on half full, surely that isnt good?

Thank you in advance.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Journey time is quoted as 59 minutes.

Manchester Airport to central London is under 160 miles as the crow flies, 192 miles by road. If the trains travel at 225 mph why is there such doubt over the under an hour claim?

Dan"

Think about it Dan, the HS2 is going via Birmingham, and won't be doing 225mph all the way, there will be times when it slows a bit, for a bend for example, and for the station stops in the middle of nowhere. 225 mph is the maximum speed not the average. Some present trains are capable of 140 mph but rarely go over 125 mph, and average around 100 mph.

Not going to happen.

[KUEFC09]

Please anyone?

[chaps2011]

Nothing concrete but I think they are doing alright, cannot tell what yields are
but loads have been quite good except for January which is not a very good time for tourism in Washington due weather and not a major tourism spot in winter

Chaps

[KUEFC09]

Thank you, sounds a tad better than i was expecting.

[GavinC]

Think about it Dan, the HS2 is going via Birmingham, and won't be doing 225mph all the way, there will be times when it slows a bit, for a bend for example, and for the station stops in the middle of nowhere. 225 mph is the maximum speed not the average. Some present trains are capable of 140 mph but rarely go over 125 mph, and average around 100 mph.

Not going to happen.

The route from London to Manchester won't go via Birmingham although there will be Manchester - Birmingham trains and London - Birmingham trains.

The route will be much straighter than the existing route and so slowing down for bends will be less of a problem than it is on the existing WCML where tilting is required on stretches.

The existing Pendelino fleet are rated at 140mph but are limited to 125mph because that is the line speed of the route. The last major upgrade should have increased the line speed but it proved too costly.

Hope that clarifies a few things.

Gavin.

[TURIN]

You are assuming instantaneous acceleration to max speed and no stops on the way.
If you have a trip computer in your car, try getting from a to b at max speed, then check your AVERAGE speed for the journey.



Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[ETOPS]

try getting from a to b at max speed, then check your AVERAGE speed for the journey.



And your rear view mirror for a Police car :eek:

[DCS99]

Make mine a Tizer!
Great quote from Shed on Post 322

" But MAN / EGCC will survive. It will remain a desirable asset even as it is sidelined by bonus-driven beancounters.

Time for another Vimto!

SHED."

Nail on the head indeed.

[goldeneye]

Thomas Cook will be operating flights from MAN to BGI & UVF from Nov 10th and ANU from December 19th.

All bookable on their flight only seat sale website now.

[LAX_LHR]

Thomas Cook will be operating flights from MAN to BGI & UVF from Nov 10th and ANU from December 19th.

All bookable on their flight only seat sale website now

I thought they already did, but it appears not. Good to see them expanding a little after a lot of contraction, especially at MAN.

[Funderblaster]

They have but all P&O Charters, seems these are their own flights. Good news !:D

[take-off]

Having Looked on travel republic at reviews for hotels in Vegas , came across comment that Virgin are pull the flight next winter from Man to Vegas , making it seasonal only.Have the loads been that bad, as some comments have been made that there were only just over 100 odd people on the flight,and thats starting from Gatwick and picking up at Man, seems BA must be taking Vs's custom from Gatwick flights with their new service.:ugh: What with TCX starting a sunday service too this summer, can see the route being back next year.:sad: does anyone know any more about it , just asking before i hand over hard earned cash to beardy ones airline:cool:

[j636]

US Airways are reducing capacity on PHL-MAN for the summer season, A333 replaced by A332. Loss of 35 seats per flight.

[LAX_LHR]

US Airways are reducing capacity on PHL-MAN for the summer season, A333 replaced by A332. Loss of 35 seats per flight.

Seems they are doing the same as this winter, switching between the -300 and -200 on various dates.

Majority of flights show -200, but -300 is showing on quite a few dates too.

[chaps2011]

I think it`s to do with the closure of a large pharmaceutical company

Chaps

[TURIN]

A.Z in the doo doo are they? :uhoh:

[take-off]

Flight radar showing a lot of incoming flights circling this morning? Is it weather related or just a busy morning ?

[airadio]

Snow closed

[Curious Pax]

Load of snow and ice, so closed for clearance for a while.

[TSR2]

Flight radar showing a lot of incoming flights circling this morning? Is it weather related or just a busy morning ?

Closure for snow clearance earlier this morning.

[airadio]

Snow closed but open again 09.30

[chaps2011]

Closed for just over the hour from 08.00

Chaps

[BHX5DME]

http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/alldocs/50F188A297FA8AC180257B0900494503/$File/January+13.pdf

[Mr A Tis]

Lufthansa Cargo MD11s seem to be regular visitors now. Is MAN just a tech stop or do they actually uplift cargo at MAN ?
Cathay 747 cargo ships seem few and far between recently, is this temporary or is there a slump in HKG-MAN cargo?
Any prospect of Air China returning their cargo service to Shanghai?

[chaps2011]

Lufthansa is a regular service inbound cargo from states, Cathay things are bad
cargo wise at moment and always less flights early in year after Christmas.
I believe we are due to get B748F from April, by then hopefully the worst of recession will be over and we may see a slow increase in cargo, in previous recessions cargo has showed a growth before pax but as that has been growing for over a year now it is a bit different

Chaps

[Jamie2k9]

Aer Lingus Regional to start MAN-DUB 2 daily from 1 July. Aer Lingus service contuine in total 5 daily.

10.00 and 16.40 departures from DUB
11.35 and 18.15 departures from MAN

[spannersatcx]

Cathay 747 cargo ships seem few and far between recently, is this temporary or is there a slump in HKG-MAN cargo?
At the moment it is Chinese new Year so everything stops for a few weeks.
The schedule is down to 4 a week until things pick up in the economy, so may be a while before it's back to daily!

[ManofMan]

Cathys flights into EGCC will struggle for the time being, freight agents are cancelling their Block Space Agreements where they would have normally signed a deal with CX for a guarenteed amount of space per month, my current company, my previous employer and one of the industry giants have all decided not to sign deals with CX this year due to pricing ( these are the ones i know of), CX is constantly 2-3 HKD per kilo above most other carriers, its only niche being that its direct into EGCC, but those options continue to dwindle from what was 13 per week to now 4 per week (if they operate at all).

Outbound the flights are always struggling for cargo, again £0.40 above the rest of the market per kilo forcing agents to look elsewhere.

Various meetings in Catahy City have all lead to me thinking one thing.....CX is closely monitoring Manchester.

[AircraftOperations]

I'd be very surprised if CX sent a B748F to MAN, if the above posters are right and loads are already low.

[spannersatcx]

you'll get a surprise then!

it has nothing to do with loads but what equipment (i.e. aircraft) is available as more and more of the 400's go and -8's arrive.

the freighter fleet will eventually be -8's and ERF's only.

[Mr A Tis]

I may be wrong, but did I just see a Singapore B744 this lunchtime going into MAN ? Special cargo maybe? or an en-route diversion?

[LAX_LHR]

I may be wrong, but did I just see a Singapore B744 this lunchtime going into MAN ? Special cargo maybe? or an en-route diversion?

You did. Its a one off flight, and aircraft routed SIN-NBO-AMS-MAN-SIN.

[Ringwayman]

easyJet increasing Copenhagen services to 8 weekly from 22nd April then it goes 9 weekly from 10th May

[vectisman]

I am correct in assuming that no airline has stepped forward to take over the Manchester-Gatwick route when British Airways suspends it at the end of March? Will seem strange losing the link after so many years. Doesn't some traffic connect to BA and VS long haul services?
I know Flybe have their own issues at the moment but I thought a twice/three times daily E195/E175 may have worked.

V.

[DomyDom]

As far as I know, there is not intention to replace the MAN-LGW service. As far as VS is concerned the expectation is that customers from Manchester will fly down to LHR courtesy of their new MAN-LHR service and then get the coach around the M25 to Gatwick from whcih they will take their LGW flight. Not marvellous really.

[Mr A Tis]

or do what most do now, west bounds use DL,UA or US to connect to dest, and eastbounds use EK,QR or EY to connect, is there a need for Gatwick link ? Unless you are going to Brighton of course......

[Skipness One Echo]

If you look at the destinations offered from LGW, yes. The carribbean is a long way via EWR or JFK.

[johnnychips]

Also, BA's 737 fleet from LGW sometimes offered good connections to Europe not always easily served by LH, LX hubs etc. But obviously not enough people used this link.

[LN-KGL]

johnnychips, maybe the reason is the locals have discovered that most of the BA European destinations from LGW have direct flights from MAN and the ticket price for a direct flight from MAN in most cases is lower than flying through LGW. Only five of the 29 European airports BA fly direct flights to (together with its codeshare partners) the LCCs at MAN don't cover. In reality there is only one short haul destination that is unique for LGW and it's Alger (ALG), but then LGW don't have Tripoli as MAN has.

Here are the LCCs' destinations from MAN
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23931688/Maps/LCC_destinations_from_MAN_2013.jpg

As said above the real unique flights from LGW is the 12 longhaul destinations BA and its codeshare partners fly to, but it is only 9 of these that don't have direct flights from MAN.

[Espada III]

I once flew MAN - LGW for the purpose of visiting a property about a mile from the airport. It was such a long day for such a short visit that it was easier to make a day of it, go by train to Euston, tube to Victoria, train to Horley and then meet up in the afternoon/evening with friends.

Can't remember the last time before that I flew from Gatwick - possibly 1996 and the destination is no longer served.

[Bagso]

The carribbean is a long way via EWR or JFK.

But better than a flight from MAN- LHR ...a coach, yes a coach taking in the delights of the M25 before recheckin at LGW

Assume you check in 2 hours before at MAN
1 hour to LHR
90 mins to LGW taking in waiting time, loading etc
1 hour check in LGW

Bloody hell it has been nearly 6 hours and we are still in blighty !

The Virgin site should make it very very clear that you will be have to connect via coach.....currently by way of example it just say MAN -LHR LGW -LAS

.... would they really tolerate this ?

Can you imagine people near Gatwick flying to say Leeds then getting a coach to Manchester ........

[Betablockeruk]

I use the LGW shuttle for meetings in Brighton and find it cheaper and more convenient than a train jny all the way from Stalybridge. Last time, the 0820 was packed out with business types and I'd guess only 20 connecting to the long hauls (they had to dash and made themselves visible to crew).

Return jny also seemed to be very few 'connectors'.

I'm sure the stats have been analysed but the am/pm are used predominately for South London area business. Guess the mid day rotations are affecting the daily totals and leading to an incorrect conclusion.

Selfishly speaking, a business day rotation to/from LGW would suit me just fine :ok:

(Ironically a few of those 'business types' were easyJet management who made the most of the 'free' on board refreshments)

[Skipness One Echo]

Can you imagine people near Gatwick flying to say Leeds then getting a coach to Manchester ........
No Bagso that would be mental. Manchester caters for a fraction of the same market, there's a reason why it's at LGW, as the London O&D is massive. Remember BA have stated LGW is predicated around serving O&D, VS are similar.

[Suzeman]

More potential for taking the eye off the ball at MAN

Manchester Airport is looking to take over Chicago Midway airport in the United States of America - Manchester Evening News (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-looking-take-over-1377492)

Manchester Airport is part of a bid to take over an airport in Chicago in an international expansion.

It is understood that bosses are involved in a possible bid for Midway International Airport – the 26th busiest in the United States.

The airport’s parent company, Manchester Airports Group, in partnership with Australian investment partner Industry Funds Management, is one of 16 parties to have expressed interest in the Chicago hub, according to official documents.

The consortium responded to a formal process, known as a request for qualifications, indicating that they were keen to lease, operate and improve the airport for up to 40 years.

Sources said that MAG’s involvement would not be financial, but could involve helping to run operations there.

Midway carried 19.5m passengers last year – only slightly fewer than Manchester.

In 2009, current owners the City of Chicago looked at privatising the airport. But a deal stalled when the financial markets froze. Reports at the time suggested that a 99-year lease would have brought in $2.5bn.

City officials in Chicago confirmed to the M.E.N. that Manchester Airports Group – in conjunction with IFM – was among 16 companies to have expressed interest in Midway.

It is understood that MAG and IFM are among seven deemed to have the operational and financial capabilities to progress to the next stage and become potential bidders.

A City of Chicago spokesman said: “We can confirm that Manchester Airports Group was one of the 16.”

It is understood that Midway bosses want to lease their airport out for up to 40 years.

The private operator would be expected to pay an upfront fee and share revenue with the city.

Lois Scott, the City of Chicago’s chief financial officer said: “The response generated from the request for qualifications process is encouraging and provides the city with a sense of the strong level of interest in a potential lease.

“We must evaluate fully if this could be a win for Chicagoans and ensure that certain conditions and criteria are met, including a strong benefit to taxpayers and a travellers’ bill of rights.”

Midway opened in 1927. It is the city’s second airport and has often been dwarfed by its bigger neighbour O’Hare, which handled 66.8m passengers in 2012.

In an interview with the M.E.N. last February, MAG chief executive Charlie Cornish said that the group could consider a swoop for a European or American airport if it failed to buy Stansted.

Last month Manchester Airports Group won the race to buy Stansted Airport in Essex, signing a deal worth £1.5bn. As part of the transaction, Industry Funds Management (IFM) will become an investor in MAG, which is owned by Greater Manchester’s 10 councils.

IFM declined to comment on the Chicago reports.

A MAG spokesman said: “MAG is not providing any equity to a deal. The airport group may provide operational consultancy services later on, if requested.”

[Mr A Tis]

Turkish Airlines to increase Manchester flights | Buying Business Travel (http://buyingbusinesstravel.com/news/2520386-turkish-airlines-increase-manchester-flights)

[insuindi]

LH is removing three aircraft from TXL for the summer period and it seems as if LH's TXL-MAN will be one of the victims.

[LAX_LHR]

LH is removing three aircraft from TXL for the summer period and it seems as if LH's TXL-MAN will be one of the victims

Shame, but with easyjet on MAN-Berlin too, suppose it was an easy choice for Lufthansa.

In other news, some Turkish charters added for the summer.

Freebird airlines will run 3 weekly flights, one each to Bodrum, Izmir and Dalaman.

FHY603 BJV 0600 MAN 0830
FHY604 MAN 0930 BJV 1545

Mondays from 6th May on behalf of Olympic holidays

FHY601 ADB 03:00 MAN 07:15
FHY602 MAN 08:15 ADB 12:10

Fridays from 28th June on behalf of Thomas Cook.

FHY605 DLM 1645 MAN 1920
FHY606 MAN 2020 DLM 0240

Sundays from 5th May on behalf of Thomas Cook.

Pegasus will also run 2 weekly flights, one to Dalaman and one to Antalya:

PC1415 DLM 0730 MAN 1010
PC1416 MAN 1050 DLM 1705

Mondays on behalf of Olympic holidays

PC1691 AYT 0845 MAN 1130
PC1692 MAN 1220 AYT 1845

Saturdays on behalf of Thomas Cook and Olympic holidays.

There will also be up to 4 weekly flights from Onur Air to Dalaman, Ercan and Bodrum at various days/times

[virginblue]

Yes, end of TXL-MAN and a reduction of TXL-LHR confirmed by Lufthansa.

[dwshimoda]

Does anyone know why there is a water bomber (looks like maybe a CL215) parked up at the minute at MAN - looks like it was on stand 100 or nearby.

[BHX5DME]

MA-TXL ends 07.04.13

BHX-TXL continues throught Summer 2013.

Makes a change !

[rutankrd]

Bit spottery however it's an upgraded CL415 model for the Moroccan Civil Defence and Fire Authorities on delivery.

Almost all CL415s for Europe and Africa transit Manchester.

OceanSkys are a Bombardier agent and handler

[dwshimoda]

Bit spottery

True - probably should have thought a bit more about which forum to ask the question in.

DW.

[Rob1975]

Does anyone know which terminal they depart from at MAN? (It's QS3084 to RHO), 20/7 - they are not on the airports airline list, could do with a heads up!

Thanks in advance, Rob

[gazza007]

I will be using Man-LGW again Friday, my brother lives in Kent & both me and GF use for business in SE, much easier than LHR even if we are in central London.

I think Virgin are making a big mistake taking on BA on LHR, which I think was a reaction to originally losing the West Coast Mainline Franchise. They would be better serving the business community on LGW, I just hope that somebody else sees the potential for this route, maybe Jet2 again.

On another note I feel that MAN is becoming a major player again. I find it interesting that HS2 rail will link London as a whole to the new rail station at MAN with no spur to LHR , possibly negating the need to expand LHR or new build, With Airport city, the A555 and tram completion I feel good times are ahead. This is good for business and the NW economy as a whole

[Prestonian]

To stop.

Lufthansa scraps flights from Manchester to Berlin - Business - Lancashire Evening Post (http://www.lep.co.uk/news/business/lufthansa-scraps-flights-from-manchester-to-berlin-1-5454877)

[LAX_LHR]

To stop.

Lufthansa scraps flights from Manchester to Berlin - Business -
Lancashire Evening Post (http://www.lep.co.uk/news/business/lufthansa-scraps-flights-from-manchester-to-berlin-1-5454877)


Has already been noted above.

[DomyDom]

As been mentioned elsewhere I think, MAN-Berlin SXF continues with Easyjet 4 times a week. LH moving off the route should consolidate this.

[MAN-OPS]

QS - Travel Service Operate from Terminal 2.

Other summer charters this year that have applied for slots are:

Small Planet
Transylvania
Aerolean
Olympic
WOW air

[ETOPS]

I see Bransons new shorthaul product is to be called "Little Red"............always thought Virgin Domestic didn't quite sound right....

[Ringwayman]

"Little Red" have announced an extra daily frequency to MAN according to the Evening News.

[roverman]

A look at the CAA Provisional statistics for January shows MAN as just about the only UK airport posting any significant growth in passenger traffic right now. 3.2% month on month and still 4.4% over the rolling year. Most others are at best flat for the month and several with serious decline. Significantly, the main lo-co competitor, Liverpool. MAN's aircraft movements are down though. Given that seat capacity for Winter 2012/3 was only up by 1.2% it must indicate higher load factors, which I am assuming will be better for airline profitablility as long as they are not dumping the seats at rock bottom fares. Shame about LH Berlin but overall LH still have a big presence, although many appear now as German Wings. No big route announcements for this summer but hopefully the steady growth back through 20 million pax p.a. can be achieved.

[LAX_LHR]

No big route announcements for this summer but hopefully the steady growth back through 20 million pax p.a. can be achieved.

Depends what you mean by 'big'?

-Ryanair from 4 to 6 based aircraft
-Easyjet from 6 to 8 aircraft, with 8 new routes including Moscow
-Jet2 up by 1 based aircraft with 3 new routes
-Egyptair 5 weekly to Cairo
-Virgin 4 daily to Heathrow
-Aegean 2 weekly to Athens
-AA re-upgrade Chicago to B767
-Delta upgrade to A330
-Plenty of Turkey charters from Freebird, Pegasus and Onur Air
-Flybe increase a couple of routes
-Finnair to use more A319's on Helsinki
-Turkish increase to 2 daily (both flights see larger B737-900's too)
-Norwegian 2 weekly Stavanger
-SAS increase Olso and Copenhagen flights
-TAP to increase LIS to 10 weekly with larger aircraft
-Aer Lingus regional 2 daily to DUB (making EI 5 daily)
-Waterford flights on flybe should be announced next week.

Not pax related but still good news:
-Cathay Pacific to use larger B747-800F on flights

Routes cut are:
-Lufthansa to Berlin
-Ryanair to Hahn, Memminghem and Biarritz

So, whilst there are no 'big' announcements, plenty of 'small' ones to keep the ball rolling upwards!

[LAX_LHR]

Tunisair to add a weekly flight to Enfidha on behalf of Just Sunshine Holidays:

TU4946 NBE 1305 MAN 1705
TU4947 MAN 1750 NBE 2100

Saturdays using A320

This makes Tunisair at MAN 3 weekly, with the 2 Tunis flights continuing into the summer.

[spannersatcx]

Not pax related but still good news:
-Cathay Pacific to use larger B747-800F on flights

Shame all the flts are cancelled until 13th March though!

expect the 747-8F on the 17th, unless it's cancelled of course.:{

Shame LHR has a 5th (yes 5th) pax flt as that means no equipment available for a MAN pax flt, which was very imminent apparently!:ugh:

[LAX_LHR]

Shame all the flts are cancelled until 13th March though!

Yes, seems a very quiet period, although good to see it goes back to 4 weekly at the end of the month.

[RoyHudd]

Rumour is that Norwegian will be starting MAN-LGW. What a shame, if this comes true.

[LAX_LHR]

I'd love to see Norwegian start MAN-LGW, but I just don't see it happening personally.

Free WiFi would knock the socks off BA for London/Manchester O&D traffic though. One of the single biggest complaints of customers on BA is lack of WiFi, free or paid.

[adfly]

Norweigen are the wrong airline and a 738 is the wrong aircraft for MAN-LGW sadly! Best options for the route are (IMHO) Flybe ~4 daily E195/175 or Easyjet 3/4 daily A319. Longer shots would be Virgin 3 daily A319 or BA re-instating the route at some point on the A319, which has a few less seats than the 734's and I would imagine, a slightly lower fuel burn however they would need around 4 daily flights including an overnighter @ MAN to keep the route attractive to those wishing to connect @ LGW and also business pax.

[750XL]

Free WiFi would knock the socks off BA for London/Manchester O&D traffic though. One of the single biggest complaints of customers on BA is lack of WiFi, free or paid.

Maybe I'm just unlucky, but in the many times I've flown Norwegian, whether it be UK, Norway or Finland I've never had a 'good' WiFi experience. It's a good novelty item to have and passes time as you spend 99% of your flight hopelessly refreshing stuff hoping it has the power to refresh a page, which it rarely does :hmm:

[gazza007]

I was having chat with Man & BA staff Friday. They can't understand why BA is pulling LGW as they say the loads are good. I would say we were about 70%. I jus hope somebody does pick up soon as going to be a bit knackered.

[Skipness One Echo]

The yield are c**p. Never winced once when I have booked it and they are very cheap in comparison with the equivalent LHR, where cheap seats are rare due to high numbers of connecting passengers. LGW now has a fraction of the connections it used to have remember. Also LGW long haul is built around a point to point operation, any connections are an added bonus. BA have dropped ABZ, NCL, INV and IOM in recent years, MAN is just the latest as the business model changes and losses come down. Will GLA and EDI remain I wonder?

[TURIN]

Are there really not enough passengers from the MAN catchment who want to connect at LGW then?

If you need to connect to a BA longhaul flight to the Caribbean one is stuffed.
Drive down early morning or an overnight stay after flying to LHR.

Its buggered up my holiday plans. :mad:

[rutankrd]

BA has made a commercial decision that those in the Manchester area are not needed to support the Caribbean operation.:(:hmm:

The inconveniences of alternative travel arrangements don't come into it.:=

Better look elsewhere or if the Caribbean is must you've got Barbados on VS beach fleet, Cuba The Dominican Republic and Montego Bay DIRECT from Manchester with Antigua and Saint Lucia from December albeit mainly on Charters.:)

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Charters that offer equivalent if not superior service levels than BA for less money and avoiding the inconvenience of transiting LHR or LGW without a direct service. I know which I'd choose!

[OltonPete]

http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/alldocs/0793E969975D4F0580257B260055D796/$File/February+13.pdf

You might need to type (copy & paste) the about link into your address bar if it does not open.

With transits 1,203,075 +1.43% - rolling year 19,724,560

ATM's 11083 down 4.86%

Freight down 7.84%

Obviously in real terms the % increase is higher due to one less day in February 2013.

Pete

[chaps2011]

Taken from Planemad site
Terminal pax up 1.46%, despite 1 day less than last year. An extra 17,200 pax.
Feb'13 averaged 42,559 pax per day vs 40,489 in Feb'12.
This equates to an increase in the daily rate of 5.1%.


Chaps

[spannersatcx]

expect the 747-8F on the 17th, unless it's cancelled of course.:{


you guessed it, it's cancelled. Is the writing on the wall for CX at MAN? It's looking that way! :eek:

[Mr A Tis]

Aside from the cargo matter. I'd like to think CX have totted up the number of pax from MAN that travel to HKG daily, not via BA/CX but by QR, EK, LH, LX, TK, KL, AF.

Despite Manchesters' huge Chinese population, I'm afraid Spanners is right, CX have little or no interest in MAN . Displayed by their 5th daily rotation from LHR.

[rampman]

i posted the comment below in 2007 and i still stand by my comment :ok:



i'm with you on that spannersatcx you will never see a CX passenger flight in MAN if ever they like to play down at LHR if they do come to MAN i will eat my hat whilst i do a jig up taxiway delta ontop of a tug

rampman

[spannersatcx]

To be fair the 5th flt at LHR was a 'gift' from Air New Zealand so no choice in the slot, I think it's within 10 mins of one of the other CX flts so not ideal. Plus the 7000 pax that were already booked with ANZ, so a win/win (as they like it).

[pwalhx]

Is it not also the case with the switch from the 747 to the 777 on the LHR/HKG route even with the addition of the 5th flight the net increase in seats is negligible.

[spannersatcx]

pwalhx, I believe so.

Turin can't answer your pm as:-

TURIN has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.!:ok:

[Skipness One Echo]

I think the fifth flight is being operated by a B77W with no F cabin and the CX257 goes up from an A343 to a B744 / B77W. However I am surprised they're not looking at MAN again, it's overdue.

[LAX_LHR]

However I am surprised they're not looking at MAN again, it's overdue

Its frustrating to know that there is obviously cargo demand (why else would you send 3-4 B747F's per week) with the 2nd largest Chinese population in Europe (allegedly), and its constantly touted that MAN-HKG is one of the largest connection routes for EK/LH/BA and AF ex-MAN, yet CX could not be less interested if they tried.

[spannersatcx]

There's plenty of cargo to go out, the problem is there is no demand HKG-MAN (europe) and for that reason the flts are cancelled.

LHR as far as I know is all 777's, or it will very soon be.

The problem is yield, not enough, to compete with the middle eastern carriers you need a cheap to operate, fuel efficient a/c, hence the 350 when it arrives, and then still no guarentee then.

[pwalhx]

Demand for Cargo space always drops this time of year, during CNY and the month following.

[Suzeman]

There's plenty of cargo to go out, the problem is there is no demand HKG-MAN (europe) and for that reason the flts are cancelled.

Interesting

Before the financial crisis, the majority of freight at MAN on CX was from Asia TO Europe, so a compete reversal in 5 years or so. But the impact of Chinese New Year always depresses demand anyway

[spannersatcx]

Interesting

Before the financial crisis, the majority of freight at MAN on CX was from Asia TO Europe, so a compete reversal in 5 years or so. But the impact of Chinese New Year always depresses demand anyway

Agreed, however this all started long before CNY and is continuing long after.

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[pwalhx]

Agreed, however this all started long before CNY and is continuing long after.

Speaking as someone working in the forwarding industry, I repeat what I have said before. Importers and Exporters are trying harder to make sure they can ship by sea as it is cheaper and with the pressure on the bottom line they need to avoid the higher costs of flying freight.

So yes this was going on before CNY and will carry on for sometime yet until the economy improves.

Freight in general is down as we are told monthly and I would be surprised if this changes in the near future. It is not solely a factor on the HKG route. However it will always drop in the couple of months after CNY as it has done historically.

[chaps2011]

Airport city building work to start next month, infrastructure work on roads etc to start in April plus all the tram work looks as if the north side of airfield is going to be a giant building site for years to come
News / MIPIM 2013: Stansted deal 'just the start' says MAG THEBUSINESSDESK.COM (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/442632-mipim-stansted-deal-just-the-start-says-mag.html?news_section=4148)
All very positive and looks as if the airport has a very rosy future


Chaps

[Suzeman]

Agreed, however this all started long before CNY and is continuing long after.

Speaking as someone working in the forwarding industry, I repeat what I have said before. Importers and Exporters are trying harder to make sure they can ship by sea as it is cheaper and with the pressure on the bottom line they need to avoid the higher costs of flying freight.


Indeed. You only have to look at the overall decline in flown freight at MAN over the last few years :(

[Mr A Tis]

CX have let the Middle Eastern carriers get a foothold in & have relied on BA to ship their pax to LHR to help fill their now 5 rotations.
If freight is struggling so much, would it not make it more viable / sense to operate a a pax aircraft ? A decent freight load on a pax aircraft would negate the need for a half empty B744F & stem the loss of pax to other operators, without impacting on their LHR ops.
But like others have said, they (CX) appear to have little interest north of London & I doubt the A350 will have any impact on that thought. I assume the B744Fs only appear here because they can't get enough slots in LHR.

[Skipness One Echo]

But like others have said, they (CX) appear to have little interest north of London
It depends, if Cathay serve Hong Kong direct from MAN they have a one stop service onto Oz and such, however serving LHR/HKG is restricting the attractiveness to Hong Kong itself as it's one more stop to connect on versus the Unholy Trinity of EK/QR/EY. Key point is can they make money going back into the MAN market against such a behemouth on connections or are they content to serve only Hong Kong with a BA connection? It's not about bravado or "being interested", it's about fighting a battle against an entrenched competitor with bottomless petro-pockets.

Even the mighty SQ took enough of a hit to introduce as less than useful one stop via MUC service to try and balance the books better. Would CX fare any better?

[ManofMan]

One of the reasons Cathay struggle so much with freight these days is their prices are astronomical !! Air New Zealand and QF pulling has just given CX a further stranglehold on the direct market, so expect the prices to get even higher, as I mentioned last month, agent after agent are taking the decision to not use CX, something must give.

[Ringwayman]

Far East exports from Northwest England boom (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/business-news/overseas-sales-north-west-goods-1746526)

"Sales to China rocketed by nine per cent to £1.6bn, making it the north west's biggest market behind the EU and US.

When taking into account exports to Greater China – which includes Taiwan and Hong Kong – the figure rose to more than £2bn."

How are these exports being transported?

[crewmeal]

How are these exports being transported?

Probably clogging up the M56/M6 and roads around LHR and all routes to Dover!

[european130]

U.K. and Ireland General Manager Khun Wit Kitchathorn for Thai Airways was talking about the A380 being used into Heathrow from later this year, and that he wants more frequency into the UK, quote:

More Frequencies

London may even support four daily frequencies if the aircraft deployed including smaller Boeing 777 planes, Kitchathorn said. A service to Manchester is another option.

[Skipness One Echo]

Given Thai put the A340 into LHR as they were bleeding business, and that's gone back to the B744 with the A380 to follow, it's business as usual. Cut out the middle man and just set fire to a large pile of cash. Bit of a badly run outfit alas.

[LAX_LHR]

Thai Airways have been 'interested in Manchester' for as long as I can remember. They will likely be only 'interested in Manchester' for a long time yet.

[LAX_LHR]

Im guessing that with Astra Zenica closing its Cheshire branch, we can kiss the US A330 goodbye at MAN in place of a B757/B767, given that it was the biggest user of the flight?

[Suzeman]

Quote:
How are these exports being transported?
Probably clogging up the M56/M6 and roads around LHR and all routes to Dover!

For air freight

Some into the MAN freight village to go on flights from MAN :)

Some into the MAN freight village to be consolidated onto a pallet to be sent by road to a London Airport or even BRU or AMS :hmm:

Some bypassing the MAN freight village altogether and going for consolidation darn the SE or abroad. :{

Im guessing that with Astra Zenica closing its Cheshire branch, we can kiss the US A330 goodbye at MAN in place of a B757/B767, given that it was the biggest user of the flight?

I wonder about its future at all now, especially with the merger of U.S. Airways and American. I'm sure they will be reviewing all routes and Astra Zeneca are a major user of MAN- PHL and I guess many will be premium pax.

Maybe as the AZ research HQ is being located to Cambridge, they will open up a STN-PHL instead, keeping the business within the Group. :E

[easyflyer83]

Whilst I'm sure Astra-Zenica were/ are a big user of their service, I doubt they were filling it up in a daily basis and that the success of the MAN-PHL was entirely down to them. Perhaps a re-gauge but otherwise I don't see MAN losing the route even in the light if the merger.

[Leftofcentre2009]

Im heading to Palma from Man T1 with Jet2 LS831 0640hrs on 1st April .

Dont suppose anybody knows which airframe will be operating this leg?

Cheers in advance.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Can't see MAN-PHL being dropped any time soon.

The route is far more reliant on the Florida and California/Arizona market. Biz gets filled because it's price competitive against the likes of BA and Virgin.

Seeing as US is heading the merger with AA, I can't see why they would want to meddle with one of their own successful routes; MAN does well to be a European "regional" airport attracting the largest aircraft in the US Airways portfolio, and it's little to do with the patronage of Astra-Zeneca.

[LAX_LHR]

the largest aircraft in the US Airways portfolio, and it's little to do with the patronage of Astra-Zeneca

Actually Astra Zeneca has a lot to do with the A330-300.

Astra used to used Continental to Newark, which is why we saw the DC-10 and then B777-200.

It was no co-incidence that once the contract switched to US Airways, the route quickly dropped to a B767-400 and then down to a B757-200.

Whilst I do not see the route being dropped, I do see it being downgraded. Its already gone to a slightly smaller A330-200, and even the B767 has made an appearance this month for the first time in years!

The only thing that could keep an airbus on the route is freight, but, even that seems to be in an ever downward spiral at MAN.

[TURIN]

Im guessing that with Astra Zenica closing its Cheshire branch, we can kiss the US A330 goodbye at MAN in place of a B757/B767, given that it was the biggest user of the flight?

They're not closing any branch.

They are relocating the R & D arm to Cambridge.
It could well be the thin end of the wedge though.

[LAX_LHR]

According to the Guardian, MAN is to get a new terminal. No details given.

[barry lloyd]

Im heading to Palma from Man T1 with Jet2 LS831 0640hrs on 1st April .

Dont suppose anybody knows which airframe will be operating this leg?

Cheers in advance.

Well if it's just an airframe you won't be going very far, anyway:

air·frame (ârfrm)
n.
The structure of an aircraft, such as an airplane, helicopter, or rocket, exclusive of its power plant.


Mind you, you're booked on April 1st, so anything could happen!

[roverman]

I think they already got it - just off the M11 in Essex.

The good old 'Grauniad' may be mixing up MAN with little brother EMA, which is to get terminal redevelopment.

[airadio]

Far East exports from Northwest England boom

"Sales to China rocketed by nine per cent to £1.6bn, making it the north west's biggest market behind the EU and US.

When taking into account exports to Greater China – which includes Taiwan and Hong Kong – the figure rose to more than £2bn."

How are these exports being transported?

New deal with peel via Seaforth Docks I beleave :ok:

[easyflyer83]

The reason why CO went to a 757 is because the service increased to twice daily. Nothing to do with Astra-Zenica.

[Ringwayman]

Well the Evening News is covering itself in glory today:

Big headline: Number of Manchester Airport passengers hits all-time high "


"The number of passengers handled by Manchester Airport soared by nearly 850,000 last year - the highest rise of any UK gateway.
Latest figures reveal more than 19.7 million people jetted in and out of Manchester during 2012, an increase of 4.5 per cent."

Well of course it would be, if we ignore these years:

2004 MANCHESTER 20,969,335
2005 MANCHESTER 22,083,008
2006 MANCHESTER 22,123,762
2007 MANCHESTER 21,891,723
2008 MANCHESTER 21,062,749

[pwalhx]

Far East exports from Northwest England boom

"Sales to China rocketed by nine per cent to £1.6bn, making it the north west's biggest market behind the EU and US.

When taking into account exports to Greater China – which includes Taiwan and Hong Kong – the figure rose to more than £2bn."

How are these exports being transported?

New deal with peel via Seaforth Docks I beleave

Airadio if you worked in forwarding or knew much about forwarding you would find most of the traffic actually goes further south to the likes of Felixstowe.

[MKY661]

By The way If anyone can tell me how to reduce sizes of Pictures on PPRuNe that would be very helpful :)

According to the Guardian, MAN is to get a new terminal. No details given. Not sure where or what this will be. I know there were plans to develop Terminal 1 which had a masterplan stating that both Piers B and C would have lower levels installed. Pier B also looks if it was to be knocked down and rebuilt:
http://www.aedas.com/Content/images/pageimages/Manchester-Airport-Terminal-1-Manchester-UK.jpg


Terminal 2 has I believe stated that a Satellite Pier will be added and The current terminal will be extened, including extending the number of gates it uses where Gate 215 is. I think there were also plans to Expand it even more:
http://www.aedas.com/Content/images/pageimages/Manchester-Airport-Terminal-2-Manchester-UK-797.jpg

Terminal 3 was also supposed to have it's Pier parallel to the runway extened and have gates on both sides (Replacing the T1 & T3 Long Stay Car Park). It shows this in the image of the Manchestr Airport City Plan:
http://m.gmgrd.co.uk/res/569.$plit/C_71_article_1417365_image_list_image_list_item_0_image.jpg? 06%2F04%2F2011%2017%3A32%3A56%3A877

So personally in my opinion I think that one of these will begin to develop. I really think that there is currently no way that a Fourth or replacement Terminal is needed. The current terminals are in good shape to be expanded and I also think that they are generally capable with the amount of passengers they handle. All of the terminals only seem to be busy in the early mornings and most of the day they are generally quite quiet I think.

[airadio]

If you read my post properly I did say new contracts, Peel have been very busy
Planing Liverpools new super port cargo has increased by 18m tons in 2012 the majority of that increase from China Asia :ok:Shipping companies have started-using the Panama canal rather than suez due to a number of factors, thus making Liverpool a more attractive proposition than the southern ports

[MAN777]

There is also Post Salford the huge intermodal development (another Peel one) work starts this year I believe.

[TURIN]

Whilst I do not see the route being dropped, I do see it being downgraded. Its already gone to a slightly smaller A330-200, and even the B767 has made an appearance this month for the first time in years!


The drop to A330-200 is because of winter load factors, it's back up to a -300 at the end of the month.
The B767 was a last minute change due to some unscheduled maintenance that was required on the Airbus fleet.

[j636]

it's back up to a -300 at the end of the month.

Not for the all the summer. 200 sticks around a bit.

[LAX_LHR]

The drop to A330-200 is because of winter load factors, it's back up to a -300 at the end of the month

The -200 is still scheduled throughout the summer with the -300 making ad-hoc appearances.

In other news, I see MAN is having yet another crack at a China publicity event. The twinning with PEK didn't seem to work, so now a 'business forum' has been set up to try and encourage a link.

[LAX_LHR]

For winter 2013/14, BA is increasing LHR-MAN to 13 daily:

MAN departures:

0600
0720
0835
0930
0955
1125
1300
1345
1500
1710
1855
1955
2140

LHR departures:

0635
0710
0750
0855
1110
1200
1310
1520
1715
1815
1955
2005
2100

[Betablockeruk]

and for London's 2nd airport......

MAN departures:


LGW departures:



Where's the tumbleweed gif?

[The96er]

The B.A winter schedule MAN-LHR is still subject to change at the moment. The summer schedule was originally planned to be x11 departures a day but has now been reduced to x10/day.

[LAX_LHR]

The B.A winter schedule MAN-LHR is still subject to change at the moment. The summer schedule was originally planned to be x11 departures a day but has now been reduced to x10/day

Im aware it can change, but this is what is currently planned.

[LAX_LHR]

There were some quarters that were worried that MAG purchasing STN would lead to STN being favoured for expansion, such as an airline looking at MAN but STN being promoted instead.

An example of this would be: Etihad wants an extra flight to the UK, and look at MAN. MAG then say 'rather than MAN, why not STN?'

I think this comment from Mr Harrison speaks volumes:

He said: “While we are talking to them about Manchester we can be talking to them about Stansted

New boss talking language of success at Stansted Airport | Uttlesford village headlines (http://www.hertsandessexobserver.co.uk/News/Uttlesford/New-boss-talking-language-of-success-at-Stansted-Airport-airport-20130321080000.htm)

Quite a worrying statement as far as MAN is concerned, seems it could loose out after all.

[Keyvon]

Flybe to operate two new weekly charter flights to Sardinia, both on Saturdays:

MAN-CAG BE9356 0620 1010
CAG-MAN BE9357 1050 1440

MAN-OLB BE9358 1630 2010
OLB-MAN BE9359 2050 2235

Both Olbia and Cagliari available from 06 July to 28 September, with BE using E175 on these routes.

[chaps2011]

These look very similar to the ones Cityflyer did last year

[LAX_LHR]

Sardinian holidays are indeed using flybe instead of BACF this year.

The only BACF flights into MAN this year are a few ad-hoc flights to IBZ, FAO, PMI and AGP on behalf of TCX during May.

[fjencl]

What routes are Germania going to be operating to out of Manchester and what
tour operator are they operating for.
Does anybody know.......
I see they are advertising for cabin crew at manchester.

[LAX_LHR]

Not sure who Germania re for, but the following ''unusual'' airlines have charters this year:

Travel service:

Rhodes: Wed, Sat (x2)
Zante: Thu, sun
Corfu: Mon
Heraklion: Fri
Kos: Sat
Skiathos: Fri

Small Planet (Poland):

Corfu: Fri
Chania: Tue
Preveza: Thu

Aegean:

Kefalonia: Sat

Tunisair:

Enfidha: Sat

Nouvelair:

Djerba: Sat

Freebird:

Dalaman: Sun
Bodrum: Mon
Izmir: Fri

Pegaus:

Dalaman: Mon
Antalya: Sun

Orbest Orzonia (Portugal):

Palma: Sun
Lanzarote: Thu

Onur Air:

Dalaman: Mon, Sat
Ercan: Sat

short season charters/one offs:

British Airways Citiflyer:

Ibiza: Saturdays
Faro: Sundays
Palma: Saturdays
Malaga: Saturdays

Jet Airways India:

Delhi-Manchester-Miami 20th May A330
Newark-Manchester-Delhi 25th May A330
Delhi-Manchester-Durban 10th July A330
Seoul-Manchester-Delhi 30th July A330

Also, Gainjet B757 SX-RFA is 'based' at MAN this summer, not for anyone in particular but company has decided to base at MAN.

There may be more charters, as Travel service have 2x B737 based at MAN this summer. The Small planet A320 will be BHX based.

[MKY661]

Are Nouvelair doing Monastir this year as well?

[LAX_LHR]

No just the incumbent's and Tuniair to Enfidha.

[LAX_LHR]

Whatever Germania are doing at Manchester, its year round as the jobs for cabin crew are listed as permanent, not temporary or seasonal.

Could be interesting.

[ssflyer]

Following on from the earlier post, it is all here but please do not get too excited yet!
Thai Airways to Add London A380 Route When Next Jets Arrive - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-18/thai-airways-to-add-london-to-a380-route-when-next-planes-arrive.html)

[viscount702]

LAX LHR

Do you know who Travel Service will be operating for because I can only find three of their flights for Olympic

[LAX_LHR]

all the flights I have posted are for Olympic. Dates used I Search were July 2013 and know of 2 aircraft based through a friend.

[viscount702]

Thanks LAX LHR. I asked because on searching June I only came up with three flights

[LAX_LHR]

No worries viscount. If I get time later Ill try and post the flight numbers, bu they are all still showing on the site.

[IB4138]

IAccording to Jethro's, one of Travel Services 738's will be MAN based for Jet2 operations.

[viscount702]

LAX_LHR
I have found them all now thanks. However the HER looks to operate on Tuesday rather than Friday.