No, It's true. Prior to the first ballot, IB was saying just that on one of his crew room visits.

As for the reality of the statement - well we all know the true situation!!!

Well personally I think they will threaten to close a small base or two and offer the crew’s base transfers to MAN and/or BHX then crew these places from there with night stops. I don't think the company is over crewed but certainly not under crewed there has been well over 30 new joins in the past 12months...

We are certainly on the war path and it looks like the management are wanting an unnecessary fight :mad:

Starting a few rumours about redundancies is just the next thing it says to do in the ladybird book of industrial relations.

Bmi regional did similar things when the third year of the agreed pay deal was due. First they let the union go through the motions as a time wasting exercise then after people placed ET claims they said they needed to make nearly a third of the pilots redundant. Then they forced the union to accept no third year increase for an undetermined period and two weeks later recruited new pilots because we were actually undercrewed.

Moral of the story: screw the management to the floor or they will forever screw you.

Have often wondered at the financial viability of the smaller bases instead of just night stopping and w patterns from larger ones.
I know it's probably politically incorrect or friendly to think like that towards our colleuges, but have wondered at the companies thoughts on them for the future.

What happened to all these companies Flybe were supposed to buy with money from the floatations???

Spot on, come on BALPA time to wake up!

FYI,

IQ just agreed a phased pay rise of up to 18% for junior captains on the Q-400 / EMB 195. This gives a guaranteed salary for first year captains of €65k (with max overtime € 89k) . Capts on the top level (normal line duties - no training pay) are on € 92k basic (€ 126k with max overtime).

We are also potentially facing redundancies next year, but don't let management cloud the issue. Pilot salaries will not affect the public demand for flights . If there is over capacity in the company people will go, irrespective of what the remainder do or do not earn!

Come on guys - you are getting seriously left behind:ugh:.

Redundancies? Yeah right. Any talk of redundancies has been started by management trying to undermine BALPA. We are short of crew at the moment and continue to take on new crews all the time.

Flybe is not unlike most airlines that have a large variation between summer and winter capacity requirements. Unless aircraft start leaving the fleet in any great number then the crewing requirement will remain the same each summer. If the company were to reduce the headcount in winter then they will be critically short in summer. Even if they did wish to reduce pilot numbers all they have to do is stop taking people on, there is a steady trickle of retirements and departures to the sand pit and other operators.

To conclude, redundancies at flybe will not happen any time soon.

KT, it's not the guys on the line that need a pep talk. Balpa CC need to stop letting the company dictate the pace and direction of the 'negotiations'. Now.

Balpa and the line pilots have the company's dangly bits in their hand (in the form of shiney aeroplanes). As has been stated before the CC should be saying to the company THIS is what we want or your dangly bits WON'T be going flying next week. Start of the summer schedule, busy flights, good passenger numbers, no fat in the schedule, etc.

The repurcusions of IA would seriously harm Flybe. However, I'm sure that most pilots won't want to strike. Flybe won't want you to strike either but they need to know that you will, without a seconds thought, unless you get a decent offer. It is that message that you need to get across immediately and the onus is on the Balpa CC to pull their fingers out and stop with all the huggy fluffy bollocks.

Flybe, last year in the middle of recession, made about £60M profit. Part of which was gained because Flybe employees are on such poor pay and QOL. Profit which should come from passengers and other custom has, effectively, come out of your bank account.

Why are you allowing JF to line his pockets with your money?!

£60 million? Where has this information come from?

I've had a quick look but can't find it. It was posted on here somewhere by someone who had the figures analysed by his financial advisor. I believe the 60M was the Editbar figure.

Ok, I thought you were referring to the so far unannounced 2010/11 figures.

? Excluding negative amortisation of goodwill (which is ?paper? accounting and is not a trading item), the performance is in fact quite a bit better than 2008-09 ( a point that the Press Release makes when it refers to an increase in EBITDAR).

? Turnover (boosted by Greek contract which was clearly of major benefit) is about the same, as are passenger numbers. In summary the 0.1m shortfall in passengers and the 10% reduction in yields in the first part of the year being offset by Greece

? No detailed split of Greek turnover and Greek profit are given (note 5 states commercially sensitive)

? Cash inflow from operations (cash flow statement and note 27) £50.9m compared to £31.4m in 2009. This is the best indicator of underlying trading performance and should be viewed very very positively

? Increase in cash balances despite £11m of net capital expenditure and £24m of net loan repayment

? Clearly there was some negative impact caused by the adverse conditions, but one hopes it won?t return at this disruption for 20010-11

The Outlook

This seems quite bullish with comments such as:-
? ?Year on year growth both in volumes and yield in the final quarter of 2009/10?

? ?Domestic market shares continued to grow?

? Greek planes plus new planes ? will return..as the economies..emerge from recession?

? ?an excellent position compared to many other airlines?

? The Training Academy will ?ensure substantial benefits in terms of ..overall costs of delivery?

? ?Flybe in excellent shape to harvest these investments as the ..economies continue to emerge from recession?

Clearly some volcanic disruption which will impact current year figures

Some trivia from the accounts

The hedging against currency and interest rates is showing a £7.3m positive gain as at March 2010 (see Directors Report) which should hopefully be of some major benefit in 2010-11

Consolidated balance sheet is stronger than 2008 and there are cash balances of £62.1m with bank loans c £23m lower than 2009 (£83m v £106m)
£1.1m was spent (inc £0.4m to the auditors) on professional fees ?in connection with strategic projects?. This will include the set up of the Greek contract.



Staff Costs etc
? Interestingly total pay to Directors went up by 28.5% (see note 6) on an unchanged Board

? Average pay (excl pensions and NI) for all staff (inc Directors) increased from £32,657 to £32,774) a 0.3% increase. Excluding the Directors I assess that average pay actually reduced by 3.8% compared to their 28.5% increase.



? Note 34 is quite interesting. 4 Directors have been given interest free loans totalling £36k in the period to allow them to buy shares in the Company

Or this one:

A few key points on the accounts to help the debate along (2010 refers to the year to March 2010: 2009 to the year to March 2009)

• Turnover (ie sales) was broadly the same at £570.5m (2009 : £572.4m)
• There are various ways that accountants and analysts look at profit. I summarise the 3 most relevant ones which give the best picture of how the co has performed
  • Operating profit from continuing operations is shown in the accounts at £8.2m (2009: £6.1m ) – a 34% increase. In fairness however this isn’t a true picture as 2009 had some very big “exceptional” costs relating to integration, aircraft impairment costs which reduced that years profit – which thus somewhat flatters 2010
  • However most airline businesses use a measure called EBITDAR (earnings before interest, tax, depreciation , amortisation and aircraft rents payable – excluding exceptional items). This gives by far the best view of underlying performance In the flybe press release of 20th September 2010 this EBITDAR figure is quoted as being up 4.7% to £93.8m (2009 :: £89.6m). This indicates a very creditable performance in a difficult market BUT I really think it’s been calculated incorrectly (see below)
  • Without wanting to get too much into accounting speak, I think the calculation of the “amortisation” bit has been cocked up for 2009. I reckon that the 2010 EBITDAR is c£93m, but that the 2009 EBITDAR is actually only £72m. If so this represents a fairly whopping 29% increase in underlying profit. I may be wrong on this: but I really really don’t think so.
  • This increase in (the correctly calculated) EBITDAR is absolutely supported by the cash inflow from operations which is £50.9m compared to £31.4m in 2009. Cash is king and this in conjunction with EBITDAR is the best measure of what a good year flybe had.
• I suspect undoubtedly that the performance has been boosted by the Greek tie up, but details of the profit aren’t given.
• Total Directors pay went up by 28.5% (from £1.4m to £1.8m) on an unchanged Board off Directors (is it a coincidence that this is about the same % as the increase in the EBITDAR if my views on its calculation is correct?). Highest paid Directors pay went up from £0.5m to £0.6m – 20% increase.
• Average pay of all staff (note 7) went up 0.3% . This actually includes the Directors and if they’re taken out I reckon the average pay per person actually went down by c 3% (clearly people come and go – but it’s a clue

Hope this helps guys. Sorry if it’s a bit “accounting” but in summary 2010 was a much much better year than is apparent from a first view of the figures ! Also remember what a positive outlook was given in the press release for 2010-11

AD, that second one was the one I remembered, incorrectly though as the actual Editbar figure was even higher than 60M.

So one of only three airlines, apparently, to make a profit over the last two years is still playing hardball over a measly 5%, or so, pay rise.

Come on Balpa FFS! 3% reduction last year. About the same, if not more, this year if the latest RPI figures are accurate. What about the next few years?

Personally I wouldn't accept anything less than RPI and preferrably RPI+ a bit.

undercrewed if anything
 

This redundancy nonsense is just that, we're undercrewed if our rosters of 90hrs+ this month are anything to go by.

role on summer!!!

After chatting to people around the network, my feeling is that the "good will" factor is fast ebbing away.

Maintrol may start to find a sharp increase in Tech Log entries during duties, and not at the end of the day. After all it is paramount that the aircraft is "fit to fly"

the most important thing that should keep us going and add fuel to the fire is what assymetricdrift is quoting and saying . Its factual and just once again shows the greed and uncaring attitiude of flybe. If we all let this opportunity go ....... shame on us !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps printing out Assymetric drift's post and putting it up on crew room notice boards might be the ticket? Or emailing it to 'all employees' as per our regular Pravda-esque updates!

:ok:

its the old saying fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me:=

Talk of industrial action has been just that for a loooong time, and management are taking full advantage of your inability to negotiate.

Management have no interest in what is fair or reasonable. It is merely what they can get away with, and you need to take the same approach. The latest example of talk of redundancies is just that, and reflects a real bully-boy approach.



It is very simple now - you put to them your list of requirements and reach agreement within 48 hours, or go down the strike option.

If they make redundancy there will be no need to strike as nothing will fly as we are vastly undercrewed with the current roster style

The latest I have heard is that new number 3s will now have to pay £1000 towards their training. What next? Paying for our own hotels and hire cars? with regards to pay and lifestyle, bring it on! Inflation 4.5%, pay rise 2%, easy, pay cut.

Sdryh I hope thats not true and I hope were not gong down the scum route!!!

Amazed how quiet this forum is, but maybe best to keep the ins and outs to ourselves ;)

Well from what I've heard there are definite tones of "panic" in the companies voice in recent communications! Word is that BALPA had passed a message round to members that a ballot for industrial action is the next stage. Did this without consulting Flybe management and thats put the willies up em. Rightly so!

Any truth in this?

Does anyone here feel that the overwhelming NO vote in the second ballot, that BALPA recommended, equates to a "no confidence" vote towards BALPA and the CC? Are they really listening to the "shop floor"?

With 5 reps up for re-election/replacement, we'll soon find out won't we.

As for the ridiculous £1000 charge for new starter CC, yes it's true. Unite have sold out new starters to get a meagre improvement for existing crew. Sound familiar? If this is the next step for pilots, then we'll soon see where the real greed lies in the company if it gets a 'yes' vote from the members.

In a way the members' rejecting the CC's recommendation puts them in a stronger position with regards proving to the company the members' feelings. They can turn round to the company and say look, we put your p@@s poor offer to the members with our recommendation and they still said no, how do you think they feel and you'd better come back with something significantly better?

Sea dog, spot on!

Cabin crew training charge
 

EU changes are likely soon, allowing CC to move between operators without basic re-training, only type and company specific will be required on the basis of an Attestation which includes medical fitness.

This may explain the move towards charging CC for initial training?

If its true its bloody shameful! Were already losing custom for behaving like our scumy competitors! Cant say ive heard anything about it other than here so hope its just a made up rumour!

Definitely no made up rumour. It was one of the last items on the recent CC ballot on pay & conditions, which it seems the vast majority of CC have voted yes to. Unsusprisingly, most of them didn't even know it was there, they just saw the headline figure of 3% and voted 'yes'.

Shame on them.

Seems they 'aint doing too badly after all:

Interim Management Statement - London Stock Exchange

From the mouth of Jim:

"The Group's successful flotation was a significant achievement for Flybe and was accomplished in a very challenging IPO market. We are grateful to all our employees for their continued dedication and focus during this period."

Not worth getting his chequebook out over though.

Indeed it will.

Either we are a barely viable, second rate, country bumpkin outfit masquerading as a 'big' player, with vastly overpaid senior management and on the verge of announcing redundancies.

or,

We are the successful and profitable business touted to the City, attracting an oversubscribed IPO in a challenging investment market, with a sound and deliverable business startegy, actively growing in the face of tough market conditions and competition.

Can't have it both ways Jim.

Hidden in todays trading statement released to the stockmarket:

The share price is down 15% this morining but this is due to a slight miss on profit and poor outlook for year ahead. Investec have also cut their price target from 438p to 306p

make that now 22% down. that is going to hit somebody bad in the pocket

but they also still rate the company as a "buy"

the flight crews ?

Yep, not positive news for anyone at Flybe