Busbo
 

What i state is 100% correct for LGW based crews and that includes new joiners

Bondi, why don't you tell everyone why Norwegian is your obsession, it would amuse and enlighten

So just to clarify if I were to join Norwegian today on the 787 based in LGW I would be employed by Norwegian on annual salary in pounds with all my tax deducted through PAYE, with a pension, Health insurance and LOL insurance and I would not have to pay 30k up front for the type rating. Just want to make sure because this is far from what I was led to believe.

INKJET. I am dying to know more about the pension, health insurance and licence insurance. None of this was mentioned to me a few months ago when I was fleetingly interested. And is all this with Norwegian or OSM and if the latter how the hell does that work for the pension ?

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure they will!), however I believe you are getting Norwegian SH and Norwegian LH agencies confused.
Norwegian SH operate using OSM and have the benefits INKJET mentions, whereas NLH use Rishworth and don't have the pension, LOL etc.

Is that correct?

--

-- If Not Current Rated 777 / 787,

-- Pay Upfront 30,000 EUR, if Boeing Current , OR, Pay Upfront 40,000 EUR, if NOT Boeing Current

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-- EU Commission - report:

----------------- Case M.7949 – NORWEGIAN / SHIPHOLD / OSM AVIATION


On 21 April 2016,

the European Commission received notification of a proposed concentration pursuant to Article 4 of the Merger Regulation and following a referral pursuant to Article 4(5) of the Merger Regulation by which the undertakings

Norwegian Air Resources Holding Ltd ('NARH', Ireland),

controlled by Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA ('Norwegian', Norway),

and

OSM Aviation Group Ltd ('OSM Aviation Holding', Cyprus),

controlled by Shiphold Ltd ('Shiphold', Cyprus),

acquire within the meaning of Article 3(1)(b) of the Merger Regulation joint control of the whole of the undertaking OSM Aviation Ltd ('OSM Aviation',
Cyprus) by way of purchase of shares3 .

NARH and OSM Aviation Holding are collectively designated hereinafter as the 'Parties'.


MARKET DEFINITION

OSM Aviation acts as an intermediary between crews (pilots and cabin crew members)

and

AOC holders and provides temporary and permanent employment services and related HR management services to AOC holders.


THE PARTIES

NARH is a resource company providing,
through its subsidiaries,
crew and crew management services exclusively to its parent, Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA (Norway), and its affiliates (together 'Norwegian').

--- Norwegian's operations are separated into,

---a commercial airline group with the appropriate Air Operator Certificate holders ('AOC holders'),
---an asset group,
---a resource group
---and other activities.

OSM Aviation Holding is a holding company controlled by Shiphold.
Shiphold is a group mainly active in (i) maritime services, (ii) aviation services, and (iii) ship owning.

OSM Aviation offers a full range of crew management services to AOC holders
including provision of personnel, recruitment, planning and re-planning, wage payment, training and HR.


THE TRANSACTION

The Transaction consists in the indirect acquisition by NARH of 50% of the shares in OSM Aviation from OSM Aviation Holding.
OSM Aviation will after the Transaction be jointly controlled by its current parent,
OSM Aviation Holding (and indirectly Shiphold), and by its new parent, NARH (and indirectly Norwegian).

Additional transactions are due to take place on 1 July 2016, on the day when the joint venture is planned to become operational (the 'operational closing'). Those transactions include the transfer of 100% of the shares

in one of NARH subsidiaries, Norwegian Air Resources Asia Pte. Limited ('NAR Asia'),

from NARH to OSM Aviation.

Pursuant to the Shareholders' Agreement between NARH and OSM Aviation Holding, NAR Asia will be jointly controlled by the Parties.


-------15 pages --- link --- http://ec.europa.eu/competition/merg...7949_400_3.pdf


---

which hotels you use in FLL, JFK and LAX? thanks

Surely you do not seriously expect anyone to post that sort of information on pprune?

So is this guy on anti Kojs cool-aid ? this from the CAPA site.

Some opponents claim safety concerns arise from NAI's employment practices

An argument put forward by Captain Stephen Coleman, whose filing said that he had worked at two separate airlines in the Norwegian Group, was that 'atypical' employment practices undermine safety standards and, "European regulators are unable to competently oversee the Norwegian Group".

'Atypical' employment refers to employment on terms other than an open-ended employment contract; these include self-employment, fixed-term work and work via temporary work agencies, as well as zero-hour contracts and pay-to-fly schemes.

Inkjet;

Page 55 of the EU Commission funded, Atypical Employment in Aviation Report, defines atypical employment as:

“Atypical employment in the European aviation industry generally manifests itself as fixed-term work, part-time work, fixed-term work via work agencies, (bogus) self-employment and/or zero-hour contracts”

https://www.eurocockpit.be/sites/def..._15_0212_f.pdf

As you know, Orient Ship Management agency is fractionally owned by a distant, non-airline, Norwegian asset/holding/resource group. OSM employs pilots and flight attendants and rents them temporarily to a Norwegian AOC airline. Crews may be returned to OSM by the respective Norwegian airline, without notice reason or recourse.

This airline “unemployment” shell game is clearly an atypical labor model, previously described by the DOT as “novel and complex”. The scheme permits Norwegian to have favorable financing from the banks. As confirmed by Kjos to VG News:

”Norwegian boss is crystal clear that he is not at all interested in negotiating the pilots demands for connection to the parent NAS [the AOC holder] - This will eliminate our ability to finance the 240 planes. With such a model we would not have gotten the funding of the banks to operate”:

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/k...lt/a/23408996/

The hypocrisy of the Norwegian regime never ceases to amaze. Kjos wrote to the DOT on June 1, 2015, testifying;

“Norwegian has regularly utilized the services of employment agencies for the recruitment of temporary provision of crews for a transitional period of 24-26 months in connection with the opening of new bases”

Is the statement by Kjos honest or dishonest?

https://www.regulations.gov/document...2013-0204-0203

(open pdf file and scroll to letter)

January 03, 2017


US DOT​

​....​ request of Norwegian Air UK_Limited (“NAUK”) for “expedited processing ...… of December 21, 2016
​ ​​
--- ​ Motion of Norwegian Air UK Limited for Expedited Treatment

For the reasons we have previously stated in this docket, ​

involving NAUK’s corporate affiliate Norwegian Air International,

​ ​however,

the Department should propose to deny

As it stands, NAUK’s application raises serious questions about whether its business plan is consistent with the requirements for issuance of a foreign air carrier permit set out in the aviation statutes (49 U.S.C. § 41302) and with Article 17 bis of the U.S.-EU Air Transport Agreement. Because of these concerns, the Labor Parties have asked DOT to seek additional information from NAUK in order to clarify the carrier’s staffing plans for its services to the U.S.

Norwegian Air UK’s application ---- unless NAUK commits to ensure ---- that the pilots and flight attendants who will operate its transatlantic flights will be based in the United Kingdom or the U.S. and will be employed by UK or U.S. employers on Contracts --- Governed by UK or US Law.........


NOTE:
​​
" .......Contracts --- Governed by UK or U.S. ​L​aw...... " :​


- O . S . M. Orient Ship Management - Cyprus / Asia

​-​ ​PLUS​ ​

-​ 26 Twenty Six ​"Norwegian " Subsidiaries =

= The Definition of Shell Gamesmanship with​ multi complex jurisdictions

marvel man for gods sake change the record man...

This is old new and utterly meaningless, there is no requirement for NUK to employ only Brits or Yanks, although it does and Norwegian employs more American nationals than any other airline outside of the USA.

So the clock is ticking and lets see if Trump rejects NUK application or revokes NAI approval

Very Amusing ! These "Stubborn Facts" are JUST the Only Facts.

INTERVIEW - The Sunday Times

Freddie Laker of the fjords in a dogfight with Americans

The transatlantic expansion plans of former fighter pilot Bjorn Kjos rest on defeating the US foes of his budget carrier, Norwegian Air Shuttle.

Bjorn Kjos prods the table with a meaty finger. An expression between a grimace and a smile furrows his face.

“It’s bull****,” says the chief executive of Norwegian Air Shuttle. “This is either political or somebody has a private agenda.”

The boss of Europe’s third-biggest budget airline is warming to his favourite theme: his battle to break into the most lucrative sector of the aviation industry — transatlantic travel.

The “bull****” is the accusations made by rival carriers, including the allegation his plan hinges on using cheap Asian workers.

“They say we are using Bangkok crew. We don’t have any Bangkok crew or Asian crew in Ireland or in other places. ......."


Link----- http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no...kies-mgtcf6bj9

AND AGAIN :

In a recent letter to EC Commissioner for Transport, Norwegian's CEO writes:

....." With respect to the facts," ......
... asserts .... " Norwegian bases many crewmembers operating transatlantic services in Bangkok "....... "This is simply false".....!

.....signed......Bjorn Kjos, CEO, Norwegian Group.

https://www.regulations.gov/document...013-0204-15120

AND--- THEN, THE "STUBBORN" REALITY:

Norwegian / London - Las Vegas flight - maiden voyage, PICTURE...WITH ...FULL Bangkok cabin crew :


http://imgur.com/a/il7sj

http://imgur.com/a/il7sj

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Norwegian Air fantasy, for the " Baghdad Bob Award " .

" Baghdad Bob Award " :

Named after the Iraqi information minister who dispensed ludicrously false reports at the beginning of the Iraq War. Remember, Baghdad Bob (Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf) gained celebrity status by making up incredible and wholly imaginary victories for the Iraqi forces and ignoring facts (e.g. the U.S. and allied forces were routing Iraqi troops) that were blindingly obvious and instantaneously supported by video evidence.

Furthermore:

F Y I - Trump is NOT the Only Way !

This is an Ongoing - Never Ending "War" , and, in the End , Norwegian's B K will Lose !


aviation statutes (49 U.S.C. § 41302) and with Article 17 bis of the U.S.-EU Air Transport Agreement.

involving NAUK’s corporate affiliate Norwegian Air International,

​​unless NAUK commits to ensure


NAUK.......Contracts --- Governed by UK or U.S. ​L​aw......

AND--- THEN, THE "STUBBORN" REALITY:

- O . S . M. Orient Ship Management - Cyprus / Asia

​-​ ​PLUS​ ​

-​ 26 Twenty Six ​"Norwegian " Subsidiaries =

= The Definition of Shell Gamesmanship with​ multi complex jurisdictions

The title of the tread is "Norwegian 787 LGW based" not " a lecture in corporate structures and finance" can we stick to the core of " terms and endearment?

Bondi
 

Do you think your evidence to the USA DoT will be taken seriously ?

Here’s another post the DOT, media and traveling public may wish to consider as evidence regarding Norwegian’s “agency employment/airline unemployment” shell game and associated labor troubles, that may seriously affect its 737 and 787 services:

“People want to strike, because they are very tired of Norwegian and their attitude during the negotiations”

“Norwegian delaying collective labor agreement negotiations as much as possible - Norwegian in full dispute with cabin employee unions in the United States and Spain”:

http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/norw...mulig/66770816

A spokesman for the Spanish union, USO, said, “It is most important that the crew be recognized as workers for the airline and not a staffing company”.

The International Labor Organization guide, Regulating the Employment Relationship in Europe, Section 2, Determining the existence of an employment relationship, page 38, - indicates there is an "employment relationship” between the crew member and the Norwegian AOC airline.

The ILO guide may be downloaded at:

http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/pub...cms_209280.pdf

Remember; Kjos wrote to the DOT on June 1, 2015, testifying;

“Norwegian has regularly utilized the services of employment agencies for the recruitment of temporary provision of crews for a transitional period of 24-26 months in connection with the opening of new bases”

Temporary and transitional, indeed.

I think that was a no

Marvelman and Direct Bondi,

Please stop your constant de-railing of this topic. Besides your ridiculous formatting (both of you), which makes it almost impossible to read your posts, you are not contributing anything to the terms and endearments of Norwegian 787 based in LGW. Your constant vendettas are boring and this is not the forum for your soapbox postulating. If you wish to spout forth on all things union etc with NAS then open your own thread in a different section so others don't have to have your constant interruptions on the Ts & Cs of this airline. You've both got some sort of bug to bear with the company (although from New York and Sydney I can't really see the connection to LGW and you've both refused to say why constantly dip your oars in) but your sniping at every turn is ruining the thread for everyone else.

All pilots should be very aware of the pros AND the cons of any airline and I am not, for one moment, saying that the poor pay, lack of days off, absence of pension etc should not be promulgated. What I am saying, however, is your constant news links to union news or what's happening in the USA with Trump etc should have their own subject heading, so that we might ignore your tedious rants and concentrate on the subject.

This topic is much better now I've 'ignored' Marvelman and Direct Bondi but that does mean I have to log in, instead of just lurking. It's a shame there's no moderator to rid this thread of extraneous nonsense and irrelevant chest pounding from copy and paste 'experts'.

I have to say I disagree with the last couple of posts. Norwegian is by far and away the most controversial European employer around. There are very many who consider them as the vanguard of future decimation of our terms and conditions and if they do end up using asian cheap labour on european registered aircraft then god help us all. Yes, DB and M posts are a bit repetitive but they are still better than the regular requests for sample schedules by the tempted few.

I think POTUS Trump will be bringing Norwegian to a screeching halt this week.

New DOT Secretary just sworn in.

U.S. Airline Pilots Rally at White House: Will Ask Trump To Block Obama's Export of White-Collar Jobs - Breitbart