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-   -   Norwegian B787 - LGW based (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/558123-norwegian-b787-lgw-based.html)

LH777 14th Mar 2015 12:57

Norwegian B787 - LGW based
 
Hi

Can anyone post some up to date information on terms and conditions for the Norwegian B787 drivers based in LGW?

Interested in salary (net or gross?)
Is Rishworth the only way to source a job there?
How are the rosters or is this a new base?

The last I heard they were basing pilots in Thailand.

I'm currently flying the B777 and wish to get back to the UK.

Aluminium shuffler 16th Mar 2015 13:20

With the :mad:storms surrounding all employment aspects of all Norwegian operational subsidiary and shell companies, people are still interested. Unbelievable...:ugh:

Avenger 16th Mar 2015 16:11

With just 7 aircraft and 3 scheduled this year why do they need 100 pilots?

JW411 16th Mar 2015 19:24

Don't forget; in long haul operations, it normally needs 7 crews per aircraft to keep the aircraft moving efficiently. So each aircraft will need a minimum of 14 pilots to which you would have to allow for flights which need an augmented crew (3 pilots).

Mr Angry from Purley 17th Mar 2015 15:11

Norwegian B787 - LGW based
 
JW more like nine-ten crews per aircraft depends on route frequency etc

niss 17th Mar 2015 22:20

They need 23 pilots pr. Aircraft and 5 more coming

Avenger 17th Mar 2015 22:35

Fleet average seems to be about 12 and this "old post" supported that:
http://www.pprune.org/flight-ground-...per-plane.html
Looks like Norwegian are going for a record!.. according to the Boeing site only 3 airframes due this year..of course that could be wrong...:roll eyes:
Deep pockets they must have:

Ronand 2nd Apr 2015 11:33

The contract for FO is 6000 eur/ month gross that includes all allowances. With apprx 35% tax in in the UK thats about eur 3900 with the current conversion rate 2850 GBP. So probably the lowest paid 787 job worldwide, and only 8 days off a month guaranteed. On top of that you need to give them 30.000 euro as guarantee that u won't leave in the first 3 years. They pay you back 10.000 eur/ year.

Flying Clog 2nd Apr 2015 12:16

I'm surprised there are muppets out there willing to sign onto that sort of [email protected] deal.

Zero respect for the clowns that do.

Deep and fast 2nd Apr 2015 12:17

Simply supply and demand equation, don't supply to meet demand and the conditions will go up.

TowerDog 2nd Apr 2015 12:38

Some guys may be unemployed and need to feed their families.
That being said, I am no fan of Norwegians's out sourcing, she'll-games and the "race to the bottom" cheap long-haul.
(Didn't Laker try that? 100 across the water. Guess it did not work in the long run :sad:)

AUTO/MAN 2nd Apr 2015 23:05

Please do not take this in an offensive way TowerD, but not being a fan of Norwegian long-haul as you described, you still decided to buy a return trip with them when not able to swap buddypasses (according to your own account on another part of PPRuNe).
How does that put your money where your mouth is, so to speak?

Totally agree with you in general, have a couple of buddies who faced unemployment or the dilemma of joining, putting bread on the family table won for all of them. That said, many of them will eject as soon as possible, unfortunately only to be replaced by others.

Point being that as long as pilots frowning upon terms offered by companies decide to support the same companies business when traveling on own money, the chances for pilots trying to make supply and demand meet as described by D&F are somewhere between slim to none.
Making joe public understand the point is wishful thinking, why should they care as long as we who have some degree of insight in the business dont either?
The fight starts from within, unfortunately with the dumbasses regulating the industry in the big common E today, 6k gross for an F/O and 10sh K for a skipper still is regarded as good money, even in Scandiland and other corners west of the newest joiners of the free market. Sad but true.

TowerDog 2nd Apr 2015 23:28

Aye AUTO/MAN:

No, I never made it a secret that I bought a ticket on Norwegian Air.
Not that we are boycotting them, or that they employ strike breakers or :mad:
Can't remember my Union has said anything about it either, usually they are the first to ring that bell..:=
Can't bitch about the product before I try it.
Damn convenient, but lousy service and food (in Premium Class) so I won't go back and buy more tickets. I probably mentioned that before on the other forum, but maybe you missed it?
At any rate, the Race to The Bottom was more about accepting employment or a contract below Industry Standard Terms and Conditions, not about somebody buying full fare tickets on the competition.
(I would probably have used buddy passes on Norwegian in the future if I got hold of some, as they fly to the old country from an airport 10 mins from my house in the colonies. Don't think I will buy an expensive ticket however, but the lounge in OSL was nice...)

Perhaps the pilots on them Dreamliners make good money in overtime or are paid in some tax-heaven so that they doing much better than say, the non-sched freight dogs in the US who fly widebodies for 1/2 price, SkyLease, Centurion, etc.
Perhaps some Norwegian Dreamliner pilots would like to chip in...?

Boeing operator 26th Apr 2015 15:47

One 787 was delivered this year. Pilots employed for that one already.

Four 787s coming in 2016. 23 crew per 787 (9 CPT, 5 RCA, 9 FO) gives almost 100 new pilots. All flights except JFK use 3 pilot crew.

Employment to start this autumn well in time for the deliveries in 2016.

Shanwick Shanwick 26th Apr 2015 16:08

Regular resignations will ensure fairly constant recruitment on top of expansion. Perhaps not the best long-term choice of employer.

Yorkshire_Pudding 26th Apr 2015 17:09

What's the deal with these new UK employment contracts they're advertising.. Same T&C as before?

pudoc 26th Apr 2015 17:12

I was interested, but no allowance on night stops and 30k up front? I have more self respect than that.

Boeing operator 26th Apr 2015 19:12

For every position you have a fixed allowance of EUR 1,000 plus phone expenses (EUR 50 or 100 depending on position).

Elephant and Castle 27th Apr 2015 08:12

A company with a high risk of folding, a rock bottom salary and a history of not keeping to agreements. You gotta be pretty desperate. Is that what the pax want up front? A desperate guy that cannot get a job anywhere else?

Shanwick Shanwick 28th Apr 2015 07:48

"Up Front" they're a great bunch of pilots and far from desperate.

Many saw it as an opportunity to extract themselves from low cost carriers, one in particular, for many others it is a way back to Europe and then there are those who were forcefully retired and need or want to extend their career.

It's not for everyone but it's an opportunity to gain a good, wide-body type rating with long-haul experience and the ability to move onto other things when the opportunities arise. Many are doing just that.

I don't think anyone joined for either the money or out of desperation. They may leave for those reasons though.

fade to grey 28th Apr 2015 16:00

Some fantastic ignorance on this thread.
Shanwick appears to be on the money.

Boeing operator 30th Apr 2015 09:43

Apparently Norwegian has today changed its recruitment tool, and they will only consider applications created in that tool.

Still you must go via Rishworth and register a profile with basic data, then click "apply" on the Norwegian job and you will be directed to another tool where you actually apply for the 787 position.

Screenings in July and August for courses later this year.

Yorkshire_Pudding 30th Apr 2015 16:53

They also changed their requirements.

If rated on B777/787 but not current on the B787 there is now a 20,000 euro "training cost bond"

1,000 hours now required on a Boeing OR Airbus glass cockpit. Still 1500TT

If not 777/787 rated bond is 40,000 euro for airbus guys and remains 30,000 for other Boeing.

victim 30th Apr 2015 16:56

A Captain at Norwegian on the 787 will net broadly the same as a 2nd yr f/o at B.A. (4800 incl all pay and benefits)
An RCA about 20% less (3900)
An FO about 3100.

All fluctuate due to the euro/sterling exchange rate.

Data correct as at 30/04/2015

CaptainProp 1st May 2015 08:05

Now accepting non rated, airbus experienced, direct entry captains. Obviously not getting that many applications.

twentyyearstoolate 1st May 2015 09:56

Well if the terms and conditions (salary) previously mentioned is true, I hope they don't get many applications. It's simply a disgraceful package for the Job involved.

This industry really has gone to the dogs. It's been very sad to see the demise of the profession, standards, and remuneration over the years. The industry has been ruled by bean counters and low cost companies, ever eroding terms and conditions. Crews working ever harder, with less and less in their pay and conditions. No job security, crap medical benefits and fatigue rife throughout the industry, yet with all the news recently with accidents they always spout the same BS, "Safety is our number one priority!" Same crap every time. Safety is a number one priority, as long as it doesn't cost money, and good conditions including Medical, Leave etc etc costs money.

Maybe a little off topic, but the Norwegian package really is a disgrace to our profession.

airwjo 1st May 2015 11:01

terms and conditions
 
hey guys

does anybody know the current terms and conditions
off days, net!!!! pay etc

there is so much non sense talk about this and that, nobody posted the real terms and conditions

CaptainProp 1st May 2015 11:58

Did you even read the posts here? The oldest one is from 14/3 so shouldn't be that far off...

victim 1st May 2015 15:24

Contract is 8 days off per month, 24 days leave. Norwegian FTL's (so no requirement to have a day off at home after 7 days). 20+ days away is common.

Frequent (3+ per month) roster changes.

Flight ops management generally a good bunch.

Upper management not so much.

On the whole a really good bunch of guys in the flight deck, so going to work is fun and a happy experience.

Everything else sucks!

airwjo 2nd May 2015 07:05

Thank you very much for the honest reply

Was looking for a window, to go to Europe, looks like no chance

And captain prop, I read all, this is the only interesting reply.

Good luck to all

Cheers

polax52 2nd May 2015 08:59

I can see the reasons for some guys choosing this option e.g. after a period of expat work, returning home. However this does otherwise strongly appear to be a back door P2F. You pay your 30k/40k bond get yourself 500 hours on a widebody at half the normal salary and then double or triple that salary going expat, losing the bond.

I guess there's nothing wrong with that but I hate to see this kind of management exploitation.

Cliff Secord 2nd May 2015 09:26

This is a jaw droppingly bad pay and terms. This really is less than driving a freight train for likes of DB Schenker. We have hit that embarrassing watershed point.


Less time off at home, less pension, less stability, more stress, you even have to give the bloody company an interest free loan to do the job. I can hear the barreling Norwegian laughter from here. They must be pissing their pants.

:mad: disgusting

Boeing operator 2nd May 2015 10:39

It is minimum 8 days off in the contract. If it helps, the average is more. Now close to 11 days and climbing, and they are rostered so not only 8 rostered and the rest standby. But, yes, the contract is still 8 days.

28 days annual leave, not 24 days (that was for BKK base which is not available anymore).

EUR9000 for CPT, EUR7000 for RCA and EUR5000 for FO. All positions another EUR1000 per diem.

Travel for free to and from work on Norwegian network if you commute. ID tickets on long haul only for you and family.

Hotels are very bad. Also transport to hotels.

Vacation rare. Roster changes frequent. Can earn some extra money to sell days off (10% of basic salary) when they change your roster. You must always agree when an off day is affected.

Great bunch of people working there, fun to go to work. People that leave, leave for the desert and some 787 operators in China, as well as Turkish. People come from Norwegian short haul, Ryanair, Cargolux, GSS (close of business), Jet2, Primera, Korean, the desert and many other places. Of course not from the major airlines.

The company can offert a quite fast upgrade to RCA if you have 5000 hours, and to CPT when you have some wide body experience. Upgrade on seniority.

Not for most of you guys. But for some it is an option.

Lord Spandex Masher 2nd May 2015 10:45

EUR1000 per diem?

Boeing operator 2nd May 2015 10:55

LSM, correct.

Regarding the bond, you need to provide EUR20000, EUR30000 or EUR40000 depending on which rating you have (what training the company must give you). You get EUR10000 back for each year you complete.

Or you can provide a bank guarantee if you don't have the cash.

PT6Driver 2nd May 2015 11:26

LSM
I guess that the 1000 per diem is for the whole month.

Now is that taxable?
Is that average for the whole year or just the best you can hope for during say the summer?

C_Star 2nd May 2015 11:43

@Boeing Operator

How long would an RCA with no previous widebody experience (but lots of NB PiC time) would expect to wait for an upgrade to full CA?

Yorkshire_Pudding 2nd May 2015 11:43


less pension
From what I read there's no pension.

Well, you're a contractor I guess. Still, you would have thought maybe some cash element provision for your own private fund. Still intrigued as to how the new UK employment contracts are set up. Are they paying your NI contributions for a state pension even??! According to their website you become a uk employee.

Boeing operator 2nd May 2015 11:58

@ C Star

Currently 500 hours wide body required (takes a year), and then on seniority. With the expansion to come the next few years (more than dubble the fleet to 17 aircraft within three years) it won't take long.

The Company says they want another 20 787s at least.

donpizmeov2 2nd May 2015 12:23

it's possible to have an example of roster pattern for a LAX flight?thanks


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