Fly for KLM… no Dutch language required.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 64
From: england
Don’t know why the above poster says unless you’re at BA , it’s a no -brainer. I imagine there are many BA pilots under the age of 30 looking at this opportunity. I know I would be !
The only fly in the ointment of course is Brexit and having the right to live and work in the EU.
The only fly in the ointment of course is Brexit and having the right to live and work in the EU.
Joined: Apr 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,649
Likes: 491
From: Europe
Put the numbers in perspective for yourself. Even if all of the 200+ hires would be non-Dutch speakers, it is less than 7% of the entire pilot pool, and an even smaller percentage of the total number of employees of KLM. Do you think the 93% should all adjust to that minority to make them happy or should the ~7% adjust and learn the language to a basic degree within a year, as stated in the job ad?
Talking about having an attitude...
Talking about having an attitude...
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,731
Likes: 53
From: World
Yearly intake of 200+ pilots with 60 coming from klm flightschool.
We are short of crew due to many parttime request(in dutch law), retirement and fleet changes. KLM is without a doubt one of the best companies to work for. In the aviation and outside the aviation. There is really nothing negative i can say about klm. Except whine about nonsense stuff like business class food is bad, why didnt we get christmas card and other blablas
- start salary 70.000 -100.000 euro depends on age. Increase to 350.000 euro after 25 years in the company. No hourly pay. If you fly 0 hour you get paid. If you fly 80 hour you get paid. Always the same. Salary is always stable. Very complicated structure. But this is long story short. Don’t ask about the structure, too complicated to explain.
- Work schedule is: Europe 16/12 daily from 0 stretch to max 4 stretch. and longhaul 14/14 depends on your trip preference. Longhaul 100% 3/4 trips, 80% 3 trips, 67% 2trips a month.
- Start position 737, 320, E190 and second officer LH. Placement depends on fleet need. Salary all the same.
- Company Pension contribution 25%-42%(depends on age)on top of the salary. You can have it paid out as extra salary on top or let the pension fund take care of it.
- Fleet change according to seniority
- Time to command shorthaul six years, longhaul 23 years.
- 35 days holidays
- Commuting yes, but tiring. Some live in usa, canada ectr. Due to personal choices.
- Parttime available after 6 month according to dutch law 90%, 80%, 67% and 50%. Company can not refuse due to dutch law.
- All the standaard work conditions are taking care off, ZED tickets, partner leave, maternity leave, partner sick leave, kids sick leave, jumpseat travel and more, too much to talk about. Once your a part of the team. You will be take care of the best possible way.
- LOL is a one time payout 200.000 euro and every month 70% of your last salary till your retirement age. Pension also paid out from moment of LOL till your retirement every month with 70% of your last salary.
- Everything in the company is seniority based.
- the most important thing at klm. Everyone is being appreciated, valued and respected.
- this is a no brainer if you are under 42 and not at luftie, Ba or AF
- Please dont ask questions like do you get food while working, is there a bidding system, do i get sick pay. These are all retorical questions.
We are short of crew due to many parttime request(in dutch law), retirement and fleet changes. KLM is without a doubt one of the best companies to work for. In the aviation and outside the aviation. There is really nothing negative i can say about klm. Except whine about nonsense stuff like business class food is bad, why didnt we get christmas card and other blablas
Another story if you are in your 20/early 30ies
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 171
Likes: 31
From: European riviera
Don’t know why the above poster says unless you’re at BA , it’s a no -brainer. I imagine there are many BA pilots under the age of 30 looking at this opportunity. I know I would be !
The only fly in the ointment of course is Brexit and having the right to live and work in the EU.
The only fly in the ointment of course is Brexit and having the right to live and work in the EU.
I don’t see any major advantage, and I can see quite a few potential disadvantages, some of them cultural (English folk aren’t very good at languages, and I doubt many would be interested in learning Dutch to a proficient level which KLM folk would rightly expect.) I personally would not want to end up as an SFO on the 777 making bunks and not being able to touch the controls below a certain FL …. I’m not sure how they determine which fleet a new hire would end up on.
I’m not sure of the tax implications but that would also concern me not to mention Brexit as you’ve already mentioned.
Unless conditions at BA deteriorate meaningfully, I’m not convinced KLM wouldn’t just be a sideways step for a BA pilot.
As someone has already said, if you’re very young then it may be different…
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 170
Likes: 10
From: BR
The stretch I believe it refers to the block of days off (anything from 0 to 4 days off in a row).
I don't work for KLM, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Zummerset
Fly for KLM… no Dutch language required.
For the first time since 1989 KLM are welcoming applications for experienced pilots who do not need the Dutch language to apply. There is a requirement that applicants learn basic Dutch in ‘about a year’ and more Dutch language skills by the time of upgrade to command.
a good opportunity to join a legacy company with good benefits.
https://vacancy.klm.com/KLM/job/Schiphol-Centrum-Experienced-Pilot/810686602/
a good opportunity to join a legacy company with good benefits.
https://vacancy.klm.com/KLM/job/Schiphol-Centrum-Experienced-Pilot/810686602/
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38
Likes: 11
From: EU
Every 28 days, average work schedule is 4 on, 3 off. Or any other combo. At the end 16 days work, 12 days off
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 326
Likes: 7
From: World
For the first time since 1989 KLM are welcoming applications for experienced pilots who do not need the Dutch language to apply. There is a requirement that applicants learn basic Dutch in ‘about a year’ and more Dutch language skills by the time of upgrade to command.
a good opportunity to join a legacy company with good benefits.
https://vacancy.klm.com/KLM/job/Schi...lot/810686602/
a good opportunity to join a legacy company with good benefits.
https://vacancy.klm.com/KLM/job/Schi...lot/810686602/
Joined: Apr 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,649
Likes: 491
From: Europe
As a 40 years old on the LHS of a good european lowcost financially it doesn’t make sense to change, once you consider the taxation is holland and a retirement at 60/65 years old, assuming the time to command is what mentioned in this thread.
Another story if you are in your 20/early 30ies
Another story if you are in your 20/early 30ies
One thing I hear mixed reviews of is the short haul roster. How easy is it to bid for day trips? Or are you mostly living out of a suitcase, staying in different hotels every night? Asking for a friend
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 69
Likes: 65
From: Manchester
I guess they dropped their requirements about only hiring from prestigious private schools too...that deterred my girlfriend from applying, wasn't "posh" enough I guess. They are very elitist and classists. So it's not just the language you have to worry about. KLM's flight decks aren't diverse at all too, if you're from a different ethnicity, might want to consider the environment.
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38
Likes: 11
From: EU
I guess they dropped their requirements about only hiring from prestigious private schools too...that deterred my girlfriend from applying, wasn't "posh" enough I guess. They are very elitist and classists. So it's not just the language you have to worry about. KLM's flight decks aren't diverse at all too, if you're from a different ethnicity, might want to consider the environment.
Joined: Dec 2023
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 207
Likes: 157
From: UK
I guess they dropped their requirements about only hiring from prestigious private schools too...that deterred my girlfriend from applying, wasn't "posh" enough I guess. They are very elitist and classists. So it's not just the language you have to worry about. KLM's flight decks aren't diverse at all too, if you're from a different ethnicity, might want to consider the environment.
Diversity should NEVER play any part when it comes to recruitment. BA is full of Brit pilots. Lufthansa full of German pilots. AF full of French pilots. Do you want airlines to hire based on diversifying the flight deck?
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 32
Likes: 4
From: AMS
Short haul rosters come in different shapes and sizes, one can bid for day trips, lates, earlies, destinations etc. There is also a notable difference between mainline and cityhopper. On paper both have the same scheduling rules (16/12 etc) but mainline seems to have a more effective bidding system (more successful bids)
In my experience (Capt.737, living half an hour driving from EHAM) the bidding system works fairly well; I'm in the bottom 20% of seniority in my function but get an average of 2 to 3 weekends off per month on average. (typically start Tuesday afternoon, end Friday afternoon/evening, sometimes a solid 4 day trip, sometimes day trips)
Day trips are not very popular so wouldn't be too difficult to get
In my experience (Capt.737, living half an hour driving from EHAM) the bidding system works fairly well; I'm in the bottom 20% of seniority in my function but get an average of 2 to 3 weekends off per month on average. (typically start Tuesday afternoon, end Friday afternoon/evening, sometimes a solid 4 day trip, sometimes day trips)
Day trips are not very popular so wouldn't be too difficult to get
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 206
Likes: 20
From: DSOTM
I guess they dropped their requirements about only hiring from prestigious private schools too...that deterred my girlfriend from applying, wasn't "posh" enough I guess. They are very elitist and classists. So it's not just the language you have to worry about. KLM's flight decks aren't diverse at all too, if you're from a different ethnicity, might want to consider the environment.
It’s just not a thing here, your ethnicity is KLM blue once you walk through the door. There are plenty of things to criticize in this stale, dated and slow to go with the times airline. This however is not it. You can do better.
Additionally you will be hard pressed to find a more relaxed and supportive training environment. Best of luck with the selection for those applying, it’s not the easiest one around and you would do well to prepare for it properly.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: Many different places
Hey guys! I would be interested in getting a general idea about how fast the salary increases as a new hire. The recruitment website lists 4800-7000 initial salary (I’m late 30’s so I guess closer to the higher figure would apply), but it would be interesting to know the pace of increases in order to figure out how long someone coming over from the left seat (low cost) would take recover to a comparable salary level.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38
Likes: 11
From: EU
Hey guys! I would be interested in getting a general idea about how fast the salary increases as a new hire. The recruitment website lists 4800-7000 initial salary (I’m late 30’s so I guess closer to the higher figure would apply), but it would be interesting to know the pace of increases in order to figure out how long someone coming over from the left seat (low cost) would take recover to a comparable salary level.
Thanks!
Thanks!
whats the number 💰youre looking for?