Fly for KLM… no Dutch language required.

[7574ever]

Originally Posted by Hank Moody

whats the number 💰youre looking for?

hey! For me anything above 6.5-7K net is a reasonable number.

thanks!

[Hank Moody]

6-7 years(living in holland with dutch tax) but its a bit technical. Depending own you pension choices.

[Av_mediaGal320]

Originally Posted by drfaust

This is an utter load of nonsense. There are plenty of diverse ethnic backgrounds in the KLM flight deck, myself being one of them. I have absolutely never had any KLM staff even attempt to say anything off-beat to me because of my ethnic background or in fact my choice of flight school.

It’s just not a thing here, your ethnicity is KLM blue once you walk through the door. There are plenty of things to criticize in this stale, dated and slow to go with the times airline. This however is not it. You can do better.

Additionally you will be hard pressed to find a more relaxed and supportive training environment. Best of luck with the selection for those applying, it’s not the easiest one around and you would do well to prepare for it properly.

I am glad that was your experience. However, yours doesn't invalidate others, and as someone from ethnic minority in the Netherlands you should be very aware of that.

[3Greens]

Originally Posted by Av_mediaGal320

I am glad that was your experience. However, yours doesn't invalidate others, and as someone from ethnic minority in the Netherlands you should be very aware of that.

so the perception “deterred” your GF from applying? Really?

[Av_mediaGal320]

Originally Posted by 3Greens

so the perception “deterred” your GF from applying? Really?

Is that what I said? No.
She applied back in 2014/15 and the feedback given was that she didn't go to certain schools. She was a cadet back then, and the company wasn't as open as it is claimed here.
I said that one's experience doesn't invalidate another, so you can calm down mate.

Anyone who has lived in the NL and the UK and can't see how classism and race issues are as much prevalent in their society, if not more, than the UK, is being disingenuous.

Back to topic.

What is the probability of direct entry widebody if you're rated, anyone know?

[Hank Moody]

Originally Posted by Av_mediaGal320

Is that what I said? No.
She applied back in 2014/15 and the feedback given was that she didn't go to certain schools. She was a cadet back then, and the company wasn't as open as it is claimed here.
I said that one's experience doesn't invalidate another, so you can calm down mate.

Anyone who has lived in the NL and the UK and can't see how classism and race issues are as much prevalent in their society, if not more, than the UK, is being disingenuous.

Back to topic.

What is the probability of direct entry widebody if you're rated, anyone know?

zero, read my post with all the info

[PENKO]

Originally Posted by Av_mediaGal320

I guess they dropped their requirements about only hiring from prestigious private schools too...that deterred my girlfriend from applying, wasn't "posh" enough I guess. They are very elitist and classists. So it's not just the language you have to worry about. KLM's flight decks aren't diverse at all too, if you're from a different ethnicity, might want to consider the environment.

They dropped that ‘elite school’ requirement a few years ago. Whilst probably not intentionally elitist, their recruitment policy at the time, even for experienced candidates, had a definite elitist effect and many extremely suitable candidates (having attended reputable UK flying schools for example, flying for BA, easyJet, Monarch) were outright rejected before they could even apply.

That’s the past, things have opened up dramatically as you can see. I think KLM’s own flight school has also made it possible for less affluent candidates to join. Will your girlfriend apply again this time around? Which such a massive influx of diversity I see no hesitation to apply among my ‘non-posh’ Dutch colleagues.

[Av_mediaGal320]

Originally Posted by PENKO

They dropped that ‘elite school’ requirement a few years ago. Whilst probably not intentionally elitist, their recruitment policy at the time, even for experienced candidates, had a definite elitist effect and many extremely suitable candidates (having attended reputable UK flying schools for example, flying for BA, easyJet, Monarch) were outright rejected before they could even apply.

That’s the past, things have opened up dramatically as you can see. I think KLM’s own flight school has also made it possible for less affluent candidates to join. Will your girlfriend apply again this time around? Which such a massive influx of diversity I see no hesitation to apply among my ‘non-posh’ Dutch colleagues.

Thank you for confirming this and speaking the truth. I hate when people try to dismiss a valid point and ridicule you, too many big egos on Pprune. She is not ready to return to NL yet, we are enjoying the sandpit at the moment, both on 777.

[SimoFly]

"KLM requires pilots to speak Dutch because this creates a nice working environment and better CRM" these words were spoken by someone I met during a layover many years ago.
I guess in Tenerife the pilots did not speak Dutch and hence the consequences....
Many people have warned you against this company, as a foreigner you will be always an outcast to quote someone's previous words.
The Netherlands have many racists, far right extremists and arrogant people. Unfortunately from my experience I saw many of them working in the flight deck.
Isn't this the country that has a national holiday that ridicules colored people?

[drfaust]

Originally Posted by Av_mediaGal320

Is that what I said? No.
She applied back in 2014/15 and the feedback given was that she didn't go to certain schools. She was a cadet back then, and the company wasn't as open as it is claimed here.
I said that one's experience doesn't invalidate another, so you can calm down mate.

Anyone who has lived in the NL and the UK and can't see how classism and race issues are as much prevalent in their society, if not more, than the UK, is being disingenuous.

Back to topic.

What is the probability of direct entry widebody if you're rated, anyone know?

This is again a load of rubbish.

In the past it was a requirement to be a graduate of the KLM Flight Academy or be ex-Airforce. They then expanded that to NLS/EPST already back in 2008 for EPST and even earlier for NLS.

If your girl was a cadet in 2015 it means she didn’t use any of those options. To then claim afterwards KLM is not inclusive because they don’t accept her school is the world on its head. She knew very well what the requirements were and had plenty of options. I’m sure Lufthansa’s German language requirement with DLR is racially discriminatory too?

Did she by any chance screw up the selection for KLM FA or any of those other schools? Honest answers only please.

And to answer your question, the probability of direct entry wide-body is exactly 0 unless it’s in a Second Officer position. Best of luck either way.

[3Greens]

Originally Posted by Av_mediaGal320

Is that what I said? No.
She applied back in 2014/15 and the feedback given was that she didn't go to certain schools. She was a cadet back then, and the company wasn't as open as it is claimed here.
I said that one's experience doesn't invalidate another, so you can calm down mate.

Anyone who has lived in the NL and the UK and can't see how classism and race issues are as much prevalent in their society, if not more, than the UK, is being disingenuous.

Back to topic.

What is the probability of direct entry widebody if you're rated, anyone know?

so you are enjoying the sandpit on the 777 despite it literally being one of the most racist and class system places on earth? How’s your contract compared to the local pilots?
Tell me what happens if a local crashes their car Into yours; even if they were in the wrong?
im glad you’re enjoying your job out there; but don’t make accusations of racism/class-ism against one while at the same time taking the sheiks shilling on the other.

[Av_mediaGal320]

Originally Posted by drfaust

This is again a load of rubbish.

In the past it was a requirement to be a graduate of the KLM Flight Academy or be ex-Airforce. They then expanded that to NLS/EPST already back in 2008 for EPST and even earlier for NLS.

If your girl was a cadet in 2015 it means she didn’t use any of those options. To then claim afterwards KLM is not inclusive because they don’t accept her school is the world on its head. She knew very well what the requirements were and had plenty of options. I’m sure Lufthansa’s German language requirement with DLR is racially discriminatory too?

Did she by any chance screw up the selection for KLM FA or any of those other schools? Honest answers only please.

And to answer your question, the probability of direct entry wide-body is exactly 0 unless it’s in a Second Officer position. Best of luck either way.

I don't care for what you think.

[Av_mediaGal320]

Originally Posted by 3Greens

so you are enjoying the sandpit on the 777 despite it literally being one of the most racist and class system places on earth? How’s your contract compared to the local pilots?
Tell me what happens if a local crashes their car Into yours; even if they were in the wrong?
im glad you’re enjoying your job out there; but don’t make accusations of racism/class-ism against one while at the same time taking the sheiks shilling on the other.

1. I don't care either. You don't know me, I merely pointed out that it was what she experienced.
2. You want go on the "who is the most racist" country blabla? as in The Netherlands vs the UAE? LOL go learn their history tand then be quiet, one the most brutal and racist in the world alongside the British, Portuguese, Spanish empires etc. Its is a fact that the environment here is more diverse than many EU airlines, actually. Go for a jog mate. Not the place or time.
3. I recognise your screen name, you have been here for years and you're insufferable. I am as entitled as you to comment, if you don't like it or don't agree with what I say, scroll down and keep going.

Like I said, BACK TO TOPIC!

[Av_mediaGal320]

Originally Posted by SimoFly

"KLM requires pilots to speak Dutch because this creates a nice working environment and better CRM" these words were spoken by someone I met during a layover many years ago.
I guess in Tenerife the pilots did not speak Dutch and hence the consequences....
Many people have warned you against this company, as a foreigner you will be always an outcast to quote someone's previous words.
The Netherlands have many racists, far right extremists and arrogant people. Unfortunately from my experience I saw many of them working in the flight deck.
Isn't this the country that has a national holiday that ridicules colored people?

And I get these special people attacking me for speaking the obvious to many. They obviously are in the category that doesn't have to consider this before applying to a job, it's called privilege. Diminishing the issue and calling it "nonsense" is disingenuous, and anti-intellectual. How many black female pilots do you find at BA, EZY, LH, AF, KLM etc? All the years I worked in the UK and NL, I have seen none, until my partner qualified. it's smart to put yourself in the position and think "how does this person would feel working here, considering she is the only one, working class etc"?

You are right, I have heard many comments in the flight deck, I tend to ignore but once I got into an argument. And yes, they still have that very racist holiday. Someone here suggested that a country that is proud of colonisation is more racist than the UAE...says a lot about "critical thinking" nowadays.
Good luck to whoever applies! Seems like a good gig for some...

[drfaust]

The stream of rubbish coming out is steady and unrelenting, but no less nonsensical and untrue.

The fact it’s coming from the middle east only makes it more laughable.

Tell you what; we’re all racist, sexist, classist and to be quite honest with you downright fascist.

DO NOT APPLY!

…unless you are a sensible person not permanently stuck in a victim complex. 🥲

[Av_mediaGal320]

Originally Posted by drfaust

The stream of rubbish coming out is steady and unrelenting, but no less nonsensical and untrue.

The fact it’s coming from the middle east only makes it more laughable.

Tell you what; we’re all racist, sexist, classist and to be quite honest with you downright fascist.

DO NOT APPLY!

…unless you are a sensible person not permanently stuck in a victim complex. 🥲

LOL Jog on!!! The intellectual dishonesty here is astounding. Speak of what you know or don't speak at all.

Back to topic!

[oboema]

Interesting how people try to claim the moral (and intellectual?) high ground in an argument by playing the victim card.

Failing a selection is one's own fault; accept it, brush up and try again.

[Av_mediaGal320]

Originally Posted by oboema

Interesting how people try to claim the moral (and intellectual?) high ground in an argument by playing the victim card.

Failing a selection is one's own fault; accept it, brush up and try again.

Where is the victim card?can you read? Where did I say she failed a selection?It's literally being pointed out by someone else that there were issues and that people weren't even called due to the issues I.e. not being from the right school. What part are you lot struggling with? I said what I said, don't put words in my mouth, it's very simple. Prove it to be a lie then, that there wasnt a selection in place that would discriminate in that way(unintentionally), prove it, or shut it.

If you want to challenge it, there are two contributors who added up to it. So you can approach logically and try to understand it, you clearly don't because it isn't your experience. So that's intellectually dishonest, isn't it?

LOL oh dear....

[simmple]

Is it worth applying?
Probably, but like any company it will work for some and not others.
Probably one of the better deals and company out there at the moment.
How you will be treated? Maybe look what happened to the many ex Brit pilots and Cabin crew!

[Yomama1999]

Originally Posted by drfaust

This is again a load of rubbish.

In the past it was a requirement to be a graduate of the KLM Flight Academy or be ex-Airforce. They then expanded that to NLS/EPST already back in 2008 for EPST and even earlier for NLS.

If your girl was a cadet in 2015 it means she didn’t use any of those options. To then claim afterwards KLM is not inclusive because they don’t accept her school is the world on its head. She knew very well what the requirements were and had plenty of options. I’m sure Lufthansa’s German language requirement with DLR is racially discriminatory too?

Did she by any chance screw up the selection for KLM FA or any of those other schools? Honest answers only please.

And to answer your question, the probability of direct entry wide-body is exactly 0 unless it’s in a Second Officer position. Best of luck either way.

KLM has hired people out of the NLS well before 2008, as well as people from the 'free market' (trained elsewhere, like the USA) in the 90s. Then they tightened the requirements, now they are relaxing them again.

Only 56% of Germans speak English, that's 90 percent for The Netherlands, apples and oranges...

You have a nasty tone about you, better brush up on those ole CRM skills.