KLM Direct Entry
 

Hello,

I have heard a rumour that KLM wants to introduce Direct Entries without the Dutch language. Is this true?

This is not a rumor, but a serious discussion within the airline. They will need to hire another 300 or so pilots this year and they don’t exactly know where from.

That said no decision has been made as of yet. If it comes it will likely require LPE 6.

When did ELP 6 become LPE 6?

Could somebody in the know confirm the salary figures?

PJN lists FO's starting on 5719EU and going up to 16177EU. Does this include flight pay? What is a realistic take home for the first few years and could someone share the payscale?

Is there any destination bidding possible?

Thanks for all help

Thank you .. hopefully an English version in production :E

Hi would anyone currently there be able to shed any light on longhaul rosters, especially as a second officer?

How many trips a month? What sort of destinations are likely and how long till FO upgrade? Whats it like as a second officer there? Thanks

That's quite the document! Calculating the salary appears to require a refresher course in differentiation and algebra.

Reading that document, it is almost like the salary structure has been obscured to make it difficult for outsiders/other staff to follow. Is that a Dutch thing? Quite a contrast to the US pilots docs that give an hourly rate to be multiplied by the hours flown coupled with hourly per diems.

I’m also guessing klm pay 14 months salary a year as opposed to the U.K./US 12 months?

Hi everyone,

Any info regarding average take home pay (if joining with around 6000 hours on the 320), rosters on SH/LH, minimum days off p.m., other benefits and average time to command would be much appreciated.
Is it possible to commute? If assigned on the LH fleet can you start as an FO or it is compulsory to be a SO first?

The CLA is in Dutch and it is not that easy to figure out the pay scale and the benefits.

KLM Non-Dutch
 

KLM Non Dutch



Yearly intake of 200+ pilots with 60 coming from klm flightschool.

• start salary 70.000 -100.000 euro depends on age. Increase to 350.000 euro after 25 years in the company. Very complicated structure. But this long story short. Don’t ask about the structure, too complicated to explain.
• Work schedule is: Europe 16/12 daily from 0 stretch to max 4 stretch. and longhaul 14/14 depends on your trip preference. Longhaul 100% 3/4 trips, 80% 3 trips, 67% 2trips a month.
• Start position 737, 320, E190 and second officer LH. Placement depends on fleet need. Salary all the same.
• Company Pension contribution 25%-42%(depends on age)on top of the salary. You can have it paid out as extra salary on top or let the pension fund take care of it.
• Fleet change according to seniority
• Time to command shorthaul six years, longhaul 23 years.
• 35 days holidays
• Commuting yes, but tiring. Some live in usa, canada ectr. Due to personal choices.
• Parttime available after 6 month according to dutch law 90%, 80%, 67% and 50%. Company can not refuse due to dutch law.
• All the standaard work conditions are taking care off, ZED tickets, partner leave, maternity leave, partner sick leave, kids sick leave, jumpseat travel and more, too much to talk about. Once your a part of the team. You will be take care of the best possible way.
• LOL is a one time payout 200.000 euro and every month 70% of your last salary till your retirement age. Pension also paid out from moment of LOL till your retirement every month with 70% of your last salary.
• Everything in the company is seniority based.
• the most important thing at klm. Everyone is being appreciated, valued and respected.

*this is a no brainer if you are under 42 and not at luftie, Ba or AF



We are short of crew due to many parttime request(in dutch law), retirement and fleet changes. KLM is without a doubt one of the best companies to work for. In the aviation and outside the aviation. There is really nothing negative i can say about klm.

The labour agreement and seniority is practically the word of Jesus. You can join as a cadet from flight-school or as an experienced pilot and it makes no difference, you go to the bottom of the pile.

The company will assign you your first type. Second Officer on long haul is roster wise by far the best with 3 trips a month but at this stage it seems unlikely to get it. From what I have heard they want the KLM flight academy pilots for those positions. The experienced pilots tend to stay in place for way too long because of lifestyle, as it makes no difference salary wise. As it stands you are likely to be assigned FO Embraer or B737.

Longhaul FO goes at around 10 years seniority. Captain Embraer around 7-8 and Captain 737/320 around 12 years. All subject to change of course.

The salary has an age component that is rather significant. Joining at 20 years old vs. 40 years old makes a big difference. Do the calculation for your age.

You get 14 salaries a year and a big fat enormous pension, downside is that pension age is 58 (extendable to 62 with part time work). The loss of license covers 70% your last earned income until retirement and should you choose to reintegrate into another position within the company then it becomes 100%. If you die there is a widows and orphans pension for your spouse and children.

If you are under 30 years old you will not find a better deal in Europe by far, not at BA/LH or any of the other players. The only exception could be Air France, but then you’re working with the French. 🤣 Joking aside I don’t know the details of their deal.

With regard to selection you would do well to prepare for it quite rigorously. There are several training providers, I used https://pilotentraining.nl and the lady that prepared me was very good. I am not affiliated nor do I get paid for any advertisement. As a matter of fact I didn’t even like her very much, but the psychologist did a good job preparing me. Spend the money and get ready properly.

This is a legacy airline that can provide you with a wonderful career. Best of luck.

I have never had anything to do with “ELP”. I have only ever achieved a Language Proficiency Endorsement in the English language at level 6.

But you probably know better than the authorities that have issued my licenses.

3-4 trips, 11 years to FO, life is good, you cannot land the aircraft, your license is restricted to above FL240, if you are on the 778 your bunk making skills will be assessed critically. If you are on the 330 there is no bunk, but your curtain hanging skills around the seat are important. Plus you still get paid at the end of the month.

Do you think its likely that someone with current 777 experience would get put directly onto the 777/787 or are they more likely to want to put new joiners with that experience as FOs on shorthaul first?

So to summarise, you should accept:

- Being a long haul observer pilot for 10yrs (personally speaking not for me at all), or
- Join the 737, command within 10 yrs, or
- Join the cityhopper gang, command within 7/8 yrs

In return you get arguably the best contract in Europe, if I understand correctly.

That pretty much sums it up. It is unlikely you will get the Second Officer position because it appears experienced pilots that join after having flown elsewhere don’t really tend to leave the position because the lifestyle is so good, especially given that there is no financial incentive to do so.

If you do get the SO gig assigned to you and you don’t like it you can essentially bid to move on to an FO position on EMB/B737 pretty much immediately. You can’t however bid for the SO position once you are in and flying as an FO on short haul.

Given how long it takes to become FO on long haul you have to accept flying Europe for a considerable amount of time. The lifestyles can’t be compared.

That's correct if you are Dutch and living in Holland. All communication should be in English but it isn't, especially from the Dutch union. Start would most likely be KLM Cityhopper FO, rosters are varied but pairings that aim for commuting on working days are exhausting. The Management idea of Direct Entry long-haul FO has gone down like a lead balloon with the pilots so don't hold your breath about it happening anytime soon, if it does you won't be popular. Time to command in Cityhopper is very fast and will happen before a Mainline long haul FO position. 6 years to Mainline short haul Captain is best case scenario, historically it is generally longer. Cityhopper has a nice working environment, friendly crew, Just Culture and good support if you need it.

If you can live in Holland, it's great. Otherwise, you need to get a Mainline long-haul position, preferably part-time, ASAP.

Plus speak decent Dutch in order to get a command. If I can learn it, anyone can 😂

KLM Non Dutch

Yearly intake of 200+ pilots with 60 coming from klm flightschool.

• start salary 70.000 -100.000 euro depends on age. Increase to 350.000 euro after 25 years in the company. No hourly pay. If you fly 0 hour you get paid. If you fly 80 hour you get paid. Always the same. Salary is always stable. Very complicated structure. But this long story short. Don’t ask about the structure, too complicated to explain.
• Work schedule is: Europe 16/12 daily from 0 stretch to max 4 stretch. and longhaul 14/14 depends on your trip preference. Longhaul 100% 3/4 trips, 80% 3 trips, 67% 2trips a month.
• Start position 737, 320, E190 and second officer LH. Placement depends on fleet need. Salary all the same.
• Company Pension contribution 25%-42%(depends on age)on top of the salary. You can have it paid out as extra salary on top or let the pension fund take care of it.
• Fleet change according to seniority
• Time to command shorthaul six years, longhaul 23 years.
• 35 days holidays
• Commuting yes, but tiring. Some live in usa, canada ectr. Due to personal choices.
• Parttime available after 6 month according to dutch law 90%, 80%, 67% and 50%. Company can not refuse due to dutch law.
• All the standaard work conditions are taking care off, ZED tickets, partner leave, maternity leave, partner sick leave, kids sick leave, jumpseat travel and more, too much to talk about. Once your a part of the team. You will be take care of the best possible way.
• LOL is a one time payout 200.000 euro and every month 70% of your last salary till your retirement age. Pension also paid out from moment of LOL till your retirement every month with 70% of your last salary.
• Everything in the company is seniority based.
• the most important thing at klm. Everyone is being appreciated, valued and respected.

• this is a no brainer if you are under 42 and not at luftie, Ba or AF
• Please dont ask questions like do you get food while working, is there a bidding system, do i get sick pay. These are all retorical questions.

We are short of crew due to many parttime request(in dutch law), retirement and fleet changes. KLM is without a doubt one of the best companies to work for. In the aviation and outside the aviation. There is really nothing negative i can say about klm.

being rated seems to increase the odds, but at the end of the day you go where they need you and have training slots at the time.