Fly for KLM… no Dutch language required.
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 18
Likes: 18
From: EU
Look people, KLM is one of the best contracts in the industry. USA pays more yes, but in terms of job security, union support and just culture within the company, I don’t think there are many better airlines out there.
Can you come here and say “f*** it, I’m not learning Dutch”? Maybe. You would have to lie during the application process; tell them you’ll learn Dutch and then not do it (remember, they are explicitly asking you to learn Dutch as a condition of employment). Ok, say you do that. What will be the result?
a) You will not be promoted to Captain when your number is up; this requires Dutch B1 level.
b) You will lock yourself out of 99% of social interactions.
Let me explain point B. Will people not talk to you because you are a foreigner? No, of course not, no one thinks likes that. We have quite a number of foreigners, and I’ve flown with them; British, Norwegian, Danish, Finnish, Swiss, Canadian, South African. With very few exceptions; all speak Dutch. Even if they don’t speak it, they usually understand most of it. In any case, all are welcome and treated as just another colleague (comments that Dutch people don’t like foreigners are BS, people are judged on individual personality and merit).
However, 100% of ground staff in AMS speak Dutch. 99% of cabin crew speak Dutch (except some on Asian Cabin Crew contracts). 99% of pilots speak Dutch. The only people who maybe don’t speak Dutch are international Station Management and those working at the Air France-KLM HQ. Of course the French speak French amongst themselves.
So in the operation, you are dealing with 10 000 cabin crew and 3400 pilots who speak Dutch. And now you come along and expect them to switch to English. Sure, out of politeness the purser or flight attendant who comes to the flight deck in the middle of the night over the ocean will speak English with you. But when she gets into a more detailed conversation with your Dutch pilot colleague, guess what, she’s native in Dutch and not in English. So for that conversation, it’s necessary and more comfortable for her to switch to Dutch in order to be able to communicate in the nuances desired and required. And if you don’t understand Dutch....well...do you really expect her to do everything in English just because you’re present in the room? That will get tiring very fast.
And the same thing will apply during layovers when people are having drinks. People will simply speak in their native language if they can, especially if the entire airline is composed of native Dutch speakers. It is unreasonable to expect everyone around you to conform to you, just because you think everyone owes it to you to speak English, just because you are there. Next to that, the identity of the airline is explicitly Dutch. Not just in name, but also in the way we (especially our cabin crew and other staff) always try to do something extra for our passengers. So in this case, there is also a cultural element.
I’m not saying this out of chauvinism for the Dutch language (I could care less) or general arrogance because we think we’re better or whatever (we’re not, we’re just people), but this is simply how it works. Dutch directness for you. Have issues with communication like this? Well, then maybe the Netherlands and KLM aren’t for you
But if you come here, learn Dutch, and integrate? Well, then I think you'll have a great time and a great career with great colleagues
Can you come here and say “f*** it, I’m not learning Dutch”? Maybe. You would have to lie during the application process; tell them you’ll learn Dutch and then not do it (remember, they are explicitly asking you to learn Dutch as a condition of employment). Ok, say you do that. What will be the result?
a) You will not be promoted to Captain when your number is up; this requires Dutch B1 level.
b) You will lock yourself out of 99% of social interactions.
Let me explain point B. Will people not talk to you because you are a foreigner? No, of course not, no one thinks likes that. We have quite a number of foreigners, and I’ve flown with them; British, Norwegian, Danish, Finnish, Swiss, Canadian, South African. With very few exceptions; all speak Dutch. Even if they don’t speak it, they usually understand most of it. In any case, all are welcome and treated as just another colleague (comments that Dutch people don’t like foreigners are BS, people are judged on individual personality and merit).
However, 100% of ground staff in AMS speak Dutch. 99% of cabin crew speak Dutch (except some on Asian Cabin Crew contracts). 99% of pilots speak Dutch. The only people who maybe don’t speak Dutch are international Station Management and those working at the Air France-KLM HQ. Of course the French speak French amongst themselves.
So in the operation, you are dealing with 10 000 cabin crew and 3400 pilots who speak Dutch. And now you come along and expect them to switch to English. Sure, out of politeness the purser or flight attendant who comes to the flight deck in the middle of the night over the ocean will speak English with you. But when she gets into a more detailed conversation with your Dutch pilot colleague, guess what, she’s native in Dutch and not in English. So for that conversation, it’s necessary and more comfortable for her to switch to Dutch in order to be able to communicate in the nuances desired and required. And if you don’t understand Dutch....well...do you really expect her to do everything in English just because you’re present in the room? That will get tiring very fast.
And the same thing will apply during layovers when people are having drinks. People will simply speak in their native language if they can, especially if the entire airline is composed of native Dutch speakers. It is unreasonable to expect everyone around you to conform to you, just because you think everyone owes it to you to speak English, just because you are there. Next to that, the identity of the airline is explicitly Dutch. Not just in name, but also in the way we (especially our cabin crew and other staff) always try to do something extra for our passengers. So in this case, there is also a cultural element.
I’m not saying this out of chauvinism for the Dutch language (I could care less) or general arrogance because we think we’re better or whatever (we’re not, we’re just people), but this is simply how it works. Dutch directness for you. Have issues with communication like this? Well, then maybe the Netherlands and KLM aren’t for you
But if you come here, learn Dutch, and integrate? Well, then I think you'll have a great time and a great career with great colleagues
Last edited by TakeAPu; 30th January 2025 at 09:33.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 72
Likes: 142
From: UK
So in the operation, you are dealing with 10 000 cabin crew and 3400 pilots who speak Dutch. And now you come along and expect them to switch to English. Sure, out of politeness the purser or flight attendant who comes to the flight deck in the middle of the night over the ocean will speak English with you. But when she gets into a more detailed conversation with your Dutch pilot colleague, guess what, she’s native in Dutch and not in English. So for that conversation, it’s necessary and more comfortable for her to switch to Dutch in order to be able to communicate in the nuances desired and required. And if you don’t understand Dutch....well...do you really expect her to do everything in English just because you’re present in the room? That will get tiring very fast.
And the same thing will apply during layovers when people are having drinks. People will simply speak in their native language if they can, especially if the entire airline is composed of native Dutch speakers. It is unreasonable to expect everyone around you to conform to you, just because you think everyone owes it to you to speak English, just because you are there.
And the same thing will apply during layovers when people are having drinks. People will simply speak in their native language if they can, especially if the entire airline is composed of native Dutch speakers. It is unreasonable to expect everyone around you to conform to you, just because you think everyone owes it to you to speak English, just because you are there.
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 261
Likes: 42
From: Europe
How long do you think it takes to learn Dutch? it seems you expect everyone to understand conversational Dutch by the time they step on board for the first time. It will take quite a while for someone to get to that standard, so yes, they will expect you to do things in English, just because they are there, otherwise you are not very welcoming and inclusive.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 180
From: USA
How long do you think it takes to learn Dutch? it seems you expect everyone to understand conversational Dutch by the time they step on board for the first time. It will take quite a while for someone to get to that standard, so yes, they will expect you to do things in English, just because they are there, otherwise you are not very welcoming and inclusive.
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Lille
SOPS do you have any relevant information about Transavia, roster, atmosphere, salary, layovers plz ? I've been hired few weeks ago and waiting my start with them but don't know a lot about them (only that it's AF-KLM Group)
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 16
Likes: 2
From: Sandstorm
Ex RYR, Ex EK and now working at KLM for a while now. I am Dutch and as a Dutch person this is probably the best airline when it comes to security, unions, protection etc. You basically can't be fired, no one will bother you when you're sick (only to assist in helping if you want to). Salary starts low but goes quickly. I've been here 6 years and I'm on the FO salary of EK.
Speaking Dutch has been removed but it's probably important for yourself to start learning it. We have several non-dutch speaking colleagues and they see that in the FD we all change to English but the cabin crew will not care for you...
Don't compare KLM to Transavia btw. They're completely different both with better things and worse things.
Feel free to PM me if you want. I'll help where I can.
Speaking Dutch has been removed but it's probably important for yourself to start learning it. We have several non-dutch speaking colleagues and they see that in the FD we all change to English but the cabin crew will not care for you...
Don't compare KLM to Transavia btw. They're completely different both with better things and worse things.
Feel free to PM me if you want. I'll help where I can.
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 22
Likes: 12
From: Bruges
I live in Belgium so, I happen to also speak Dutch. I'm not great at it, but still bilingual alongside English!
So I'm in the humbling unique spot to be on both sides of the concern. I'm both someone who appreciates outsiders learning the language, as well as someone who's also still not great at the language and learning every day.
But one thing is for sure. We think it's funny when you sound funny, and you should do it more.
It's also encouraging to see someone's willing to put the energy into it. It signals some kind of seriousness about wanting to be there or here.
So I'm in the humbling unique spot to be on both sides of the concern. I'm both someone who appreciates outsiders learning the language, as well as someone who's also still not great at the language and learning every day.
But one thing is for sure. We think it's funny when you sound funny, and you should do it more.
It's also encouraging to see someone's willing to put the energy into it. It signals some kind of seriousness about wanting to be there or here.
Dutch Roller
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 81
Likes: 2
From: World
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 93
Likes: 45
From: Palm
Ex RYR, Ex EK and now working at KLM for a while now. I am Dutch and as a Dutch person this is probably the best airline when it comes to security, unions, protection etc. You basically can't be fired, no one will bother you when you're sick (only to assist in helping if you want to). Salary starts low but goes quickly. I've been here 6 years and I'm on the FO salary of EK.
Speaking Dutch has been removed but it's probably important for yourself to start learning it. We have several non-dutch speaking colleagues and they see that in the FD we all change to English but the cabin crew will not care for you...
Don't compare KLM to Transavia btw. They're completely different both with better things and worse things.
Feel free to PM me if you want. I'll help where I can.
Speaking Dutch has been removed but it's probably important for yourself to start learning it. We have several non-dutch speaking colleagues and they see that in the FD we all change to English but the cabin crew will not care for you...
Don't compare KLM to Transavia btw. They're completely different both with better things and worse things.
Feel free to PM me if you want. I'll help where I can.
Oh wait, EK doesn't require pilots to speak Arabic, despite that, since working in EK, I learned the basics so that I can be respectful to the locals who are giving me a good salary, training, accommodation and many other things that in my country I will never get in a million years.
Putting a language requirement in place especially at A1 level is only a way to alienate people (you basically know the letters, numbers, few courtesy questions and sentence structure) .
A1 level will never be of any help to engage in a meaningful conversion and you put yourself in a position to be ridiculed by your colleagues because of your funny accent.
Imagine for a moment to be in an emergency situation with that knowledge of Dutch language.
I mentioned above my experience in the Netherlands, it's up to you to listen or not.
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 16
Likes: 2
From: Sandstorm
Ex EK? interesting that you raise the language requirement. I guess you speak Arabic then....
Oh wait, EK doesn't require pilots to speak Arabic, despite that, since working in EK, I learned the basics so that I can be respectful to the locals who are giving me a good salary, training, accommodation and many other things that in my country I will never get in a million years.
Putting a language requirement in place especially at A1 level is only a way to alienate people (you basically know the letters, numbers, few courtesy questions and sentence structure) .
A1 level will never be of any help to engage in a meaningful conversion and you put yourself in a position to be ridiculed by your colleagues because of your funny accent.
Imagine for a moment to be in an emergency situation with that knowledge of Dutch language.
I mentioned above my experience in the Netherlands, it's up to you to listen or not.
Oh wait, EK doesn't require pilots to speak Arabic, despite that, since working in EK, I learned the basics so that I can be respectful to the locals who are giving me a good salary, training, accommodation and many other things that in my country I will never get in a million years.
Putting a language requirement in place especially at A1 level is only a way to alienate people (you basically know the letters, numbers, few courtesy questions and sentence structure) .
A1 level will never be of any help to engage in a meaningful conversion and you put yourself in a position to be ridiculed by your colleagues because of your funny accent.
Imagine for a moment to be in an emergency situation with that knowledge of Dutch language.
I mentioned above my experience in the Netherlands, it's up to you to listen or not.
What I am trying to say is that for your own sake it's better than you try and learn the language spoken by 99.9% of the company. Captains in KLM actually still go to the cabin personally and speak to the passengers directly in Dutch to explain if there is a disruption etc. Most KLM passengers expect that the Captain speak dutch hence the requirement.
I don't think I have ever seen a Captain in EK leave the FD let alone say hi to the passengers
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 18
Likes: 18
From: EU
In other news, we just had an update from the head of Flight Ops. They've had 500 applications so far and are weeding out the ones that don't meet the criteria (e.g. lack of heavy twin hours).
They are also going to offer an initial language course when you join, because yes, it's a concern.
I think it would be more accurate at this point to change the title of this topic to: "Fly for KLM, some Dutch required initially, more later"
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 64
From: england
(Thread drift ) I would assume that the reason EK don’t have an Arabic language requirement to work for them is that they would barely get any applicants. Don’t fool yourself that if they had enough experienced local/native speakers that they would be hiring ex-pats.
Joined: Oct 2017
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 249
Likes: 57
From: Civilised part
Joined: Apr 2012
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 386
Likes: 134
From: N/A
I consider this trying to bend reality to your will. Good luck with that.
In other news, we just had an update from the head of Flight Ops. They've had 500 applications so far and are weeding out the ones that don't meet the criteria (e.g. lack of heavy twin hours).
They are also going to offer an initial language course when you join, because yes, it's a concern.
I think it would be more accurate at this point to change the title of this topic to: "Fly for KLM, some Dutch required initially, more later"
In other news, we just had an update from the head of Flight Ops. They've had 500 applications so far and are weeding out the ones that don't meet the criteria (e.g. lack of heavy twin hours).
They are also going to offer an initial language course when you join, because yes, it's a concern.
I think it would be more accurate at this point to change the title of this topic to: "Fly for KLM, some Dutch required initially, more later"
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 69
Likes: 65
From: Manchester
What's the success rate? I remember that at BA, pre pandemic it was only 10% of those who made it to the sim, passed. And only 10% of total applications made it there in the first place. It used to be a four stage process back then.
If it is similar at KLM, then 500 is nothing.
If it is similar at KLM, then 500 is nothing.
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 42
Likes: 2
From: World
Hey Everyone,
I’d love to get your honest opinion on something.
I’ve been a pilot at American Airlines for two years, currently flying the Airbus A32F with 600 hours on type (right seat). I also flew the Boeing 737NG/MAX with over 6,500 hours in two different countries, outside the U.S.
All my flying experience has been as a First Officer. The pandemic hit just as I was completing my upgrade on the 737 at a previous airline.
Even though I’m flying for American Airlines, I don’t have U.S. citizenship—just a GC. However, I do have Italian citizenship.
I’m 39 years old, and my childhood dream has always been to fly for KLM.
OK, AA is a fantastic company to work for, offering great pay and benefits, but I haven’t really adapted to the lifestyle and culture in the U.S.
I love the Netherlands—I’ve been there several times and have always been fascinated by KLM ever since I first saw an airplane. I hold FAA and Transport Canada ATPLs, with ICAO English Level 6 on my Canadian license. I don’t have the EASA license since I never thought it would be possible to join KLM without being fluent in Dutch. But now that they’re opening opportunities, I’d love to know if I’d be eligible to apply with my current FAA and Transport Canada licenses.
I’m motivated to learn Dutch and even willing to convert my license to EASA. I’ve heard that one have up to two years after joining a company to complete the 13 subjetcs for the EASA theoretical exam.
Also, even though I don’t yet hold an EASA license, I’ve already scheduled my EASA Class 1 medical in the Netherlands for March.
Any insights from you would be greatly appreciated! And yes, I absolutely agree that learning Dutch is important, even though it’ll take some time since it’s not an easy language.
Thanks, and safe flights!
I’d love to get your honest opinion on something.
I’ve been a pilot at American Airlines for two years, currently flying the Airbus A32F with 600 hours on type (right seat). I also flew the Boeing 737NG/MAX with over 6,500 hours in two different countries, outside the U.S.
All my flying experience has been as a First Officer. The pandemic hit just as I was completing my upgrade on the 737 at a previous airline.
Even though I’m flying for American Airlines, I don’t have U.S. citizenship—just a GC. However, I do have Italian citizenship.
I’m 39 years old, and my childhood dream has always been to fly for KLM.
OK, AA is a fantastic company to work for, offering great pay and benefits, but I haven’t really adapted to the lifestyle and culture in the U.S.
I love the Netherlands—I’ve been there several times and have always been fascinated by KLM ever since I first saw an airplane. I hold FAA and Transport Canada ATPLs, with ICAO English Level 6 on my Canadian license. I don’t have the EASA license since I never thought it would be possible to join KLM without being fluent in Dutch. But now that they’re opening opportunities, I’d love to know if I’d be eligible to apply with my current FAA and Transport Canada licenses.
I’m motivated to learn Dutch and even willing to convert my license to EASA. I’ve heard that one have up to two years after joining a company to complete the 13 subjetcs for the EASA theoretical exam.
Also, even though I don’t yet hold an EASA license, I’ve already scheduled my EASA Class 1 medical in the Netherlands for March.
Any insights from you would be greatly appreciated! And yes, I absolutely agree that learning Dutch is important, even though it’ll take some time since it’s not an easy language.
Thanks, and safe flights!
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 261
Likes: 42
From: Europe
The job listing specifies EASA (Frozen) ATPL(A). I am not sure if they are willing to wait until you have converted your license. You can still try and explain the situation in your motivation letter, but I'd make sure you already have some tangible proof of starting the conversion and make work of getting it done ASAP.
