Fly for KLM… no Dutch language required.
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 42
Likes: 2
From: World
I'm retired now from KLM, so it's been a while, but if I remember correctly the calculation went something like this: Let's say you're working EUR and on a 6/3 cycle (6 days on, 3 days off) If you were working 50% (available only on EUR due to exposure concerns) the calculation would look something like X/9 = 100/50. X would work out as 18, so your total cycle would be 18 days i.e 6 days on 12 days off.
Your cycle would effectively double.
For 80% the calculation would be X/9 = 100/80 or 5/4, giving a cycle of 11,25 days. Total cycle would be 6 on 5,25 off. In this case you would get 5 days off and the .25 would be banked to your credit. Once your fractions of days total 1 KLM must give that day back.
As far as I know dutch law requires all companies to grant part time employment after 6 months, but don't quote me on that.
Your cycle would effectively double.
For 80% the calculation would be X/9 = 100/80 or 5/4, giving a cycle of 11,25 days. Total cycle would be 6 on 5,25 off. In this case you would get 5 days off and the .25 would be banked to your credit. Once your fractions of days total 1 KLM must give that day back.
As far as I know dutch law requires all companies to grant part time employment after 6 months, but don't quote me on that.
interesting!
thx for the explanation.
but I’d imagine not many people would request 50% part time as the income comes down significantly, specially with the Dutch taxes, right?
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 180
From: USA
The more progressive the tax system (and the Dutch is quite progressive) the more you gain by working less. Your effective rate will be lots lower at 50% part time.
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 18
Likes: 18
From: EU
Just going to chime in here. There's a 6 month waiting period between requesting a contract percentage change, and the change kicking in. This allows the company to plan its staffing levels etc. So my guess, 6 months after joining you can part-time.
I'll give some practical examples for schedules. There's a difference between the EUR system and the ICA system.
EUR std = 16/12 in 28 days.
90% = 14/14. There's a slight correction factor here because 10% of 16 days = 1.6, so you get left with 0.4 days. Meaning every 3 months 15/13, because the counter will be at -1.2. The rest have slightly positive correction factors.
80% = 13/15
67% = 11/17
50% = 8/20
There's also a table with minimum time off after working days (not trip) that increases if you do part time. I.e. 100% = 4/2 minimum. 90% 4/3. 80% 4/4. It's possible to work 6 days total however (so work this out in the bid system depending on what you want). Page 145 of the CLA for reference.
ICA is very different. There's a formula that determines free time based on trip length. If a trip is 7 days, you can have 4 days trip and 3 days off. Or 3 days trip and 4 days off. I'll just put some flights here. There's variations, some flights will have a short layover, other a longer one depending on how many flights a week there are (= waiting longer for return a/c to come in).
AMS-LAX. 100% 3/5, 90% 3/6, 80% 3/7, 67% 3/9 OR
AMS-LAX. 100% 5/3, 90% 5/4, 80% 5/5, 67% 5/7
AMS-SIN. 100% 6/5
AMS-GIG. 100% 4/5
AMS-ACC. 100% 3/2
AMS-KIX. 100% 4/6.
AMS-JFK. 100% 4/3
Usually add a day or so for lower percentage.
I'll give some practical examples for schedules. There's a difference between the EUR system and the ICA system.
EUR std = 16/12 in 28 days.
90% = 14/14. There's a slight correction factor here because 10% of 16 days = 1.6, so you get left with 0.4 days. Meaning every 3 months 15/13, because the counter will be at -1.2. The rest have slightly positive correction factors.
80% = 13/15
67% = 11/17
50% = 8/20
There's also a table with minimum time off after working days (not trip) that increases if you do part time. I.e. 100% = 4/2 minimum. 90% 4/3. 80% 4/4. It's possible to work 6 days total however (so work this out in the bid system depending on what you want). Page 145 of the CLA for reference.
ICA is very different. There's a formula that determines free time based on trip length. If a trip is 7 days, you can have 4 days trip and 3 days off. Or 3 days trip and 4 days off. I'll just put some flights here. There's variations, some flights will have a short layover, other a longer one depending on how many flights a week there are (= waiting longer for return a/c to come in).
AMS-LAX. 100% 3/5, 90% 3/6, 80% 3/7, 67% 3/9 OR
AMS-LAX. 100% 5/3, 90% 5/4, 80% 5/5, 67% 5/7
AMS-SIN. 100% 6/5
AMS-GIG. 100% 4/5
AMS-ACC. 100% 3/2
AMS-KIX. 100% 4/6.
AMS-JFK. 100% 4/3
Usually add a day or so for lower percentage.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Vienna
Just going to chime in here. There's a 6 month waiting period between requesting a contract percentage change, and the change kicking in. This allows the company to plan its staffing levels etc. So my guess, 6 months after joining you can part-time.
I'll give some practical examples for schedules. There's a difference between the EUR system and the ICA system.
EUR std = 16/12 in 28 days.
90% = 14/14. There's a slight correction factor here because 10% of 16 days = 1.6, so you get left with 0.4 days. Meaning every 3 months 15/13, because the counter will be at -1.2. The rest have slightly positive correction factors.
80% = 13/15
67% = 11/17
50% = 8/20
There's also a table with minimum time off after working days (not trip) that increases if you do part time. I.e. 100% = 4/2 minimum. 90% 4/3. 80% 4/4. It's possible to work 6 days total however (so work this out in the bid system depending on what you want). Page 145 of the CLA for reference.
ICA is very different. There's a formula that determines free time based on trip length. If a trip is 7 days, you can have 4 days trip and 3 days off. Or 3 days trip and 4 days off. I'll just put some flights here. There's variations, some flights will have a short layover, other a longer one depending on how many flights a week there are (= waiting longer for return a/c to come in).
AMS-LAX. 100% 3/5, 90% 3/6, 80% 3/7, 67% 3/9 OR
AMS-LAX. 100% 5/3, 90% 5/4, 80% 5/5, 67% 5/7
AMS-SIN. 100% 6/5
AMS-GIG. 100% 4/5
AMS-ACC. 100% 3/2
AMS-KIX. 100% 4/6.
AMS-JFK. 100% 4/3
Usually add a day or so for lower percentage.
I'll give some practical examples for schedules. There's a difference between the EUR system and the ICA system.
EUR std = 16/12 in 28 days.
90% = 14/14. There's a slight correction factor here because 10% of 16 days = 1.6, so you get left with 0.4 days. Meaning every 3 months 15/13, because the counter will be at -1.2. The rest have slightly positive correction factors.
80% = 13/15
67% = 11/17
50% = 8/20
There's also a table with minimum time off after working days (not trip) that increases if you do part time. I.e. 100% = 4/2 minimum. 90% 4/3. 80% 4/4. It's possible to work 6 days total however (so work this out in the bid system depending on what you want). Page 145 of the CLA for reference.
ICA is very different. There's a formula that determines free time based on trip length. If a trip is 7 days, you can have 4 days trip and 3 days off. Or 3 days trip and 4 days off. I'll just put some flights here. There's variations, some flights will have a short layover, other a longer one depending on how many flights a week there are (= waiting longer for return a/c to come in).
AMS-LAX. 100% 3/5, 90% 3/6, 80% 3/7, 67% 3/9 OR
AMS-LAX. 100% 5/3, 90% 5/4, 80% 5/5, 67% 5/7
AMS-SIN. 100% 6/5
AMS-GIG. 100% 4/5
AMS-ACC. 100% 3/2
AMS-KIX. 100% 4/6.
AMS-JFK. 100% 4/3
Usually add a day or so for lower percentage.
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 18
Likes: 18
From: EU
That's going into a bit of detail. There are shorter JFKs (3 day) and longer ones (4 day) on the 777/787 at the moment. A330 has 5/3, 4/3 that I can see. It varies a bit for operational reasons. Allows you to bid for trips with more route time or more home time. Sometimes the workers council wil create such schedules by allowing a deviation from the CLA by making say GRU (not popular) a 3/5 and then using the savings from the hotel to increase the length of the CPT (popular) to 5/3.
SIN is different because you wil do a shuttle to DPS from there. There's a couple other destinations where we do that.
SIN is different because you wil do a shuttle to DPS from there. There's a couple other destinations where we do that.
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 42
Likes: 2
From: World
That's going into a bit of detail. There are shorter JFKs (3 day) and longer ones (4 day) on the 777/787 at the moment. A330 has 5/3, 4/3 that I can see. It varies a bit for operational reasons. Allows you to bid for trips with more route time or more home time. Sometimes the workers council wil create such schedules by allowing a deviation from the CLA by making say GRU (not popular) a 3/5 and then using the savings from the hotel to increase the length of the CPT (popular) to 5/3.
SIN is different because you wil do a shuttle to DPS from there. There's a couple other destinations where we do that.
SIN is different because you wil do a shuttle to DPS from there. There's a couple other destinations where we do that.
Very interesting! Thank you.
I’m from GRU, so I’d take all of the GRU flights if possible. lol
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Italy
Assessment
Hi all, just got the invitation for the online assessment.
Anyone who would kindly share a feedback about it, please? What is it about? What did you use to prepare for it? Deadline to complete it is 3 weeks.
Thanks in advance!
Anyone who would kindly share a feedback about it, please? What is it about? What did you use to prepare for it? Deadline to complete it is 3 weeks.
Thanks in advance!
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 20
Likes: 2
From: OCEAN
Congrats! I have some info. Can you PM me? When did you apply?
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 261
Likes: 42
From: Europe
- Expect a full 3,5hr sim session.
- Very relaxed atmosphere, though it might depend on the examiner you get
- Likely on 737NG.
- You will get some homework a few weeks before the grading.
- The grading itself you could define as two parts.
- First fly around a bit, show that you can actually fly the plane, maintain situational awareness, perhaps an approach. That kind of stuff.
- Second part is basically a small LOFT session. A chance to show your decision making (or lack thereof, depending on the pilot
).You will not really get much, if any, feedback after the session. Any feedback about the simulator grading could/might come in the final interview by the board of acceptance (COVA interview).
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
From: France
Sim grading
Hello everyone,
Anyone here invited to the sim grading and willing to share the cost of a preparation session (most probably around AMS area) ? I have my sim grading end of June.
Thanks and Best regards.
Anyone here invited to the sim grading and willing to share the cost of a preparation session (most probably around AMS area) ? I have my sim grading end of June.
Thanks and Best regards.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: spain
Hi everyone,
Does anybody know if KLM will reopen recruitment for pilots with no language restrictions in the near future? The application window had already closed when I found out they were recruiting.
Thanks in advance and best wishes
Does anybody know if KLM will reopen recruitment for pilots with no language restrictions in the near future? The application window had already closed when I found out they were recruiting.
Thanks in advance and best wishes
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 24
Likes: 21
From: Holland
Times have certainly changed. I know I'll get scolded for saying this but this whole thread is full of pilots "considering" applying or working for KLM. Its seems to be generally based on a whats in it for me attitude. The queries about commuting!! Part time flying! How much money! Taxes! Do I need to speak Dutch! Wanting to know all the in and outs of the assessment stages and even the simulator program. Man up all of you, apply and see how far you get. On your own without adult supervision.
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 75
Likes: 58
From: Germany
Times have certainly changed. I know I'll get scolded for saying this but this whole thread is full of pilots "considering" applying or working for KLM. Its seems to be generally based on a whats in it for me attitude. The queries about commuting!! Part time flying! How much money! Taxes! Do I need to speak Dutch! Wanting to know all the in and outs of the assessment stages and even the simulator program. Man up all of you, apply and see how far you get. On your own without adult supervision.
If anyone knows something about the dutch language requirement, I'd also be interested.
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 24
Likes: 21
From: Holland
What's your point? We work in a globalized industry. I've lost count of dutch pilots working for airlines in Germany who are also mainly interested in "what's in for them" and right they are. Why shouldn't this also go the other way around?
If anyone knows something about the dutch language requirement, I'd also be interested.
If anyone knows something about the dutch language requirement, I'd also be interested.
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 75
Likes: 58
From: Germany
Well considering its owner structure, KLM is more of a French than a Dutch company these days, but I guess that's a different story.
Given the fact that KLM accepted ready entries without Durch language knowledge a couple of weeks ago, this is a highly relevant question to some of us whether you like it or not.
This forum has in its title what we expect. Rumour by professional (KLM) pilots, simple as that.
Given the fact that KLM accepted ready entries without Durch language knowledge a couple of weeks ago, this is a highly relevant question to some of us whether you like it or not.
This forum has in its title what we expect. Rumour by professional (KLM) pilots, simple as that.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 156
Likes: 42
From: UK
Times have certainly changed. I know I'll get scolded for saying this but this whole thread is full of pilots "considering" applying or working for KLM. Its seems to be generally based on a whats in it for me attitude. The queries about commuting!! Part time flying! How much money! Taxes! Do I need to speak Dutch! Wanting to know all the in and outs of the assessment stages and even the simulator program. Man up all of you, apply and see how far you get. On your own without adult supervision.
Of course not... we care about how much we get paid, how much we're at home with our friends and/or families and how much we can put in a pension pot to escape the crippling sleep deprivation as early as we can.
Applying for any airline, let alone a flag carrier involves a great dral of effort... can't blame people for trying to get some information first to decide if it's all worth it
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 24
Likes: 21
From: Holland
Second sentence suggests you already know it's a stupid contribution. Do you think pilots join airlines because they feel passionate about increasing the shareprice and the CEOs bonus, or somehow furthering the nationalistic prestige?
Of course not... we care about how much we get paid, how much we're at home with our friends and/or families and how much we can put in a pension pot to escape the crippling sleep deprivation as early as we can.
Applying for any airline, let alone a flag carrier involves a great dral of effort... can't blame people for trying to get some information first to decide if it's all worth it
Of course not... we care about how much we get paid, how much we're at home with our friends and/or families and how much we can put in a pension pot to escape the crippling sleep deprivation as early as we can.
Applying for any airline, let alone a flag carrier involves a great dral of effort... can't blame people for trying to get some information first to decide if it's all worth it