Virgin Recruiting
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 15
Likes: 5
From: Shropshire
@NatZulu; not going to get drawn into it here but what is a fact is that the vast majority of pilots were offered re-employment, and a handful were not.
You and I can speculate on the ‘real’ reasons all day, and I am certain each case has individual circumstances, but it's also clear from your posts here, and those you’ve made on the other non-anonymous forums, that not everyone shares your interpretation of events or ‘facts’. But I’m sure you’ll get your day in court, and sincerely hope you find some closure as a result.
You and I can speculate on the ‘real’ reasons all day, and I am certain each case has individual circumstances, but it's also clear from your posts here, and those you’ve made on the other non-anonymous forums, that not everyone shares your interpretation of events or ‘facts’. But I’m sure you’ll get your day in court, and sincerely hope you find some closure as a result.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 15
Likes: 5
From: Shropshire
@NatZulu; not going to get drawn into it here but what is a fact is that the vast majority of pilots were offered re-employment, and a handful were not.
You and I can speculate on the ‘real’ reasons all day, and I am certain each case has individual circumstances, but it's also clear from your posts here, and those you’ve made on the other non-anonymous forums, that not everyone shares your interpretation of events or ‘facts’. But I’m sure you’ll get your day in court, and sincerely hope you find some closure as a result.
You and I can speculate on the ‘real’ reasons all day, and I am certain each case has individual circumstances, but it's also clear from your posts here, and those you’ve made on the other non-anonymous forums, that not everyone shares your interpretation of events or ‘facts’. But I’m sure you’ll get your day in court, and sincerely hope you find some closure as a result.
Unless you’re privy to the facts your opinion is meaningless as it’s based on incorrect information. To assume what happened based on rumour, hearsay, conjecture, supposition etc is really not helpful. I know the facts surrounding the redundancy process at VAA whereas you don’t. Therefore you are only guessing and should perhaps question your sources and not express an opinion unless you’re 100% sure of your facts.
Joined: Sep 2023
Posts: 13
Likes: 1
From: Stansted
Hopefully any existing or any new SO’s that may have joined with some Airbus or Boeing experience, will get into the right hand seat straight away and moved over using some common sense.
is it true all command upgrade courses are now paused with the lack of FO’s?
Joined: Apr 2010
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 400
Likes: 17
From: Utopia
Any lack of FO’s can be placed largely on HR
and their D&I ‘policy of the season’… where numerous suitable and qualified candidates have been turned down at final interview. You reap what you sow.
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 43
Likes: 24
From: United Kingdom
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 182
Likes: 11
From: London
I know from good authority that some guys got there and then had rants about “woke this and that”. Very clever…
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 197
Likes: 13
From: ??-ask crewing
They do give feedback, so I can categorically confirm that I was rejected for being insufficiently "woke", or words to that effect. (in my answers to the two woke probing questions). No ranting, I thought I was towing the woke line in a pragmatic way, but obviously it didn't come out the way they wanted. Treading on egg shells these days - can do without that.
Lucky escape by the sounds of it.
Lucky escape by the sounds of it.
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 182
Likes: 11
From: London
My point proven…
There were even some posts in this forum that were very clear about that same point. Don’t like their uniform policy? Don’t apply. Don’t like their equality & diversity vision? Don’t apply. Don’t like that you can’t sexually harass your crew down route? Don’t apply. Go to Emirates if you want conservative.
Some are as equals as the others, but some tend to get to the last interview and say things that do not align with what VA wants, then act surprised. They are entitled to choose who they hire.
There were even some posts in this forum that were very clear about that same point. Don’t like their uniform policy? Don’t apply. Don’t like their equality & diversity vision? Don’t apply. Don’t like that you can’t sexually harass your crew down route? Don’t apply. Go to Emirates if you want conservative.
Some are as equals as the others, but some tend to get to the last interview and say things that do not align with what VA wants, then act surprised. They are entitled to choose who they hire.
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 182
Likes: 11
From: London
They do give feedback, so I can categorically confirm that I was rejected for being insufficiently "woke", or words to that effect. (in my answers to the two woke probing questions). No ranting, I thought I was towing the woke line in a pragmatic way, but obviously it didn't come out the way they wanted. Treading on egg shells these days - can do without that.
Lucky escape by the sounds of it.
Lucky escape by the sounds of it.
It was as simple as siting down with a friend from an ethnic minority, or a female pilot or anyone from LGBTQ+, or someone with a disability and ask them “how is it truly like for you in aviation, under your skin?”.
With all due respect, it’s what truly intelligent people do, instead of listening to right wing demagoguery, they would go to the source and hear the human side. You cannot replicate or replace the human experience, and you cannot tell someone how they should feel about something. You would have learned something that would make you a more round individual, and you would be more prepared to answer a question like that even if you disagreed with it, but it would come from a place of understanding and honesty.
One would argue that they were the ones who dodged a bullet. Because “woke” is simply having or marked by an active awareness of systemic injustices and prejudices, especially those involving the treatment of ethnic, racial, or sexual minorities.
It is very clear in their website, the company values and ethos, it has changed and you don’t have to like it. Most curious is that you applied whilst disagreeing with it.
Go to a BA assessment and disagree with their mission, very likely they won’t hire you, same for most airline HR assessments. You need to prove to them that you are passionate about their brand and ethos, and even if you disagree with certain aspects. Problem with the anti-woke brigade is that they are usually awful and say deplorable things, like something racist followed by “we can’t say anything these days, treading on eggshells”.
Yes you can say what you want, it is freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences. Compassion, empathy, kindness, awareness of our privileges (most pilots are), awareness of the injustices in our system etc. It’s not that hard mate.
I have recruited pilots for years and have seen a lot of ugly things in recruitment, from racism to Islamophobia, sexism etc. The way things were before weren’t great either so I can blame them from trying to be inclusive.
Last edited by Raph737; 12th February 2024 at 20:59. Reason: Spelling
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 659
Likes: 10
From: The EU
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 182
Likes: 11
From: London
What I find with this discussions, is that people can’t beat the argument so resort to either name calling, or throwing words they don’t know what it means i.e. marxists, woke etc. Gets to a point you can’t defend your position without sounding incredibly ignorant of the subject matter.
Did they run out of pilots because of their recruitment profile? You don’t know that, fact. OR Could the exodus be due to how they acted during the pandemic? Were the issues attracting people due to lower salary and worse schedule, plus a smaller pool of candidates? Could be, we also don’t know that, fact. But now, let’s blame it on “woke”….
BA ran out of pilots, by the way. They also failed a number of people, because they can choose who they hire based on their profile. Also a fact.
TUI can’t hire and are losing people, most of the new hires are cadets, fact.
Easyjet too. Either beat the argument with a sound and honest point, or take a seat my friend.
The intellectual dishonesty is overwhelming on Pprune(that’s an opinion by the way), but to come here and blame an assessment failure on them being “woke” ? and for you to come and defend that point, is a new level of the privileged not taking accountability for their shortcomings. There are plenty of resources for self development and learning on the subject matter, he didn’t pass because he probably spent too much time in his conservative bubble and never bothered with the people most affected this.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 91
Likes: 17
From: Derby
It’s not an opinion, it is a fact, they can choose who they hire based on standards they set. Emirates? They hire from a wider pool of pilots, whilst Virgin are limited to brits and EASA holders(new), majority of applicants to Emirates are from India, so you’re being disingenuous.
What I find with this discussions, is that people can’t beat the argument so resort to either name calling, or throwing words they don’t know what it means i.e. marxists, woke etc. Gets to a point you can’t defend your position without sounding incredibly ignorant of the subject matter.
Did they run out of pilots because of their recruitment profile? You don’t know that, fact. OR Could the exodus be due to how they acted during the pandemic? Were the issues attracting people due to lower salary and worse schedule, plus a smaller pool of candidates? Could be, we also don’t know that, fact. But now, let’s blame it on “woke”….
BA ran out of pilots, by the way. They also failed a number of people, because they can choose who they hire based on their profile. Also a fact.
TUI can’t hire and are losing people, most of the new hires are cadets, fact.
Easyjet too. Either beat the argument with a sound and honest point, or take a seat my friend.
The intellectual dishonesty is overwhelming on Pprune(that’s an opinion by the way), but to come here and blame an assessment failure on them being “woke” ? and for you to come and defend that point, is a new level of the privileged not taking accountability for their shortcomings. There are plenty of resources for self development and learning on the subject matter, he didn’t pass because he probably spent too much time in his conservative bubble and never bothered with the people most affected this.
What I find with this discussions, is that people can’t beat the argument so resort to either name calling, or throwing words they don’t know what it means i.e. marxists, woke etc. Gets to a point you can’t defend your position without sounding incredibly ignorant of the subject matter.
Did they run out of pilots because of their recruitment profile? You don’t know that, fact. OR Could the exodus be due to how they acted during the pandemic? Were the issues attracting people due to lower salary and worse schedule, plus a smaller pool of candidates? Could be, we also don’t know that, fact. But now, let’s blame it on “woke”….
BA ran out of pilots, by the way. They also failed a number of people, because they can choose who they hire based on their profile. Also a fact.
TUI can’t hire and are losing people, most of the new hires are cadets, fact.
Easyjet too. Either beat the argument with a sound and honest point, or take a seat my friend.
The intellectual dishonesty is overwhelming on Pprune(that’s an opinion by the way), but to come here and blame an assessment failure on them being “woke” ? and for you to come and defend that point, is a new level of the privileged not taking accountability for their shortcomings. There are plenty of resources for self development and learning on the subject matter, he didn’t pass because he probably spent too much time in his conservative bubble and never bothered with the people most affected this.
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 182
Likes: 11
From: London
The previous posters can’t prove that VA struggle’s to hire because they are PERCEIVED to be woke. That’s a fact. There are a number of reasons. Emirates can hire from every country in the world, VA can’t so that’s also nonsense.
