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Apart from some who had suffered performance issues pre-covid, there were also a few characters who thought it was the right thing to do to tell their former employer in no uncertain terms what they thought of them, in public, in return interviews, and/or across social media, but who still then expected to be offered their jobs back. Whether or not anyone else agreed with them, most thought it more prudent not to burn bridges. Apart from these handful of cases, Virgin did follow through on their promise to reemploy everyone else.
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Apart from some who had suffered performance issues pre-covid, there were also a few characters who thought it was the right thing to do to tell their former employer in no uncertain terms what they thought of them, in public, in return interviews, and/or across social media, but who still then expected to be offered their jobs back. Whether or not anyone else agreed with them, most thought it more prudent not to burn bridges. Apart from these handful of cases, Virgin did follow through on their promise to reemploy everyone else.
Simply not true. Do you know how many unfair dismissal claims are currently being defended by the airline? Were you in those "interviews"? If so, then with respect you prob should not be casting aspersions here. If not, then you prob should not be casting aspersions here!
Anyone with any historic and documented performance or discipline "issues" were not even offered a place in the hold pool. Everyone in the pool was apparently pre-judged as being a suitable candidate, else you were not there in the first place. Many had decades of exemplary service and spotless training records. However, all were apparently still subject to a "robust" interview to get their old jobs back. Did any other airline implement a strict and scored interview process for employess to get their old jobs back?
Be careful of repeating narratives without facts. Are you seriously suggesting hundreds of crew, deemed suitable already to be in a hold pool, all walked into an interview and told their prospective employer exactly what they thought of them? Seriously? Why would these hundreds of crew bother to do that?!
I note from your earlier responses in this thread that you say :
Are you aware of the "written" redundancy agreement that Virgin had and its pilots paid for via pay concessions that had been extant for a very long time? That goes some way to explain the shock and upset suffered by pilots that were axed with decades of service. That shock and upset, I would respectfully argue, is not a "crime" to be punished, but rather a human reaction to be understood with compassion.
What actually transpired was that some interviews were more "robust" than others. The real reasons why that was the case are at the heart of the court claims.
Until you see the evidence, then, your opinion is unfortunately just that. You are, of course, entitled to it, but unfortunately not your own facts. Please try and understand that there are individuals in severe distress due to these events, and such repetition of unsubstantiated naratives only serves to make their situations worse.
Last edited by NAT Zulu; 20th Jan 2024 at 00:32.
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BA is allowing applications from Ex UK CAA licence holders who hold an EASA ATPL and are eligible for the Conversion Pathway 3-6 to regain the UK licence. I’m guessing the LST on new Type will open the new UK licence somehow.
Does anyone know if VA are also allowing this?
Does anyone know if VA are also allowing this?
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@NatZulu; not going to get drawn into it here but what is a fact is that the vast majority of pilots were offered re-employment, and a handful were not.
You and I can speculate on the ‘real’ reasons all day, and I am certain each case has individual circumstances, but it's also clear from your posts here, and those you’ve made on the other non-anonymous forums, that not everyone shares your interpretation of events or ‘facts’. But I’m sure you’ll get your day in court, and sincerely hope you find some closure as a result.
You and I can speculate on the ‘real’ reasons all day, and I am certain each case has individual circumstances, but it's also clear from your posts here, and those you’ve made on the other non-anonymous forums, that not everyone shares your interpretation of events or ‘facts’. But I’m sure you’ll get your day in court, and sincerely hope you find some closure as a result.
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@NatZulu; not going to get drawn into it here but what is a fact is that the vast majority of pilots were offered re-employment, and a handful were not.
You and I can speculate on the ‘real’ reasons all day, and I am certain each case has individual circumstances, but it's also clear from your posts here, and those you’ve made on the other non-anonymous forums, that not everyone shares your interpretation of events or ‘facts’. But I’m sure you’ll get your day in court, and sincerely hope you find some closure as a result.
You and I can speculate on the ‘real’ reasons all day, and I am certain each case has individual circumstances, but it's also clear from your posts here, and those you’ve made on the other non-anonymous forums, that not everyone shares your interpretation of events or ‘facts’. But I’m sure you’ll get your day in court, and sincerely hope you find some closure as a result.
....the thing is that,with respect, I'm not "speculating" - you are. And that was my point.
And speculating with such accusatory narrative and in such a definative tone as your previous posting on the matter, without having the evidence in front of you, is contributory to the ongoing damage done to reputations of unfortunate victims of this fiasco. Hence my reply - intended not to "draw you in", but rather to correct unsubstantiated and incorrect stated "facts".
You are clearly aware I can substantiate my own comments as you seem to indicate that you know who I am!
I guess if only "a handful" did not get their jobs back then it is not too much of a concern to you. It may well be to others reading this, and certainly to the hundreds of previous colleagues (handful?!) that have court claims currently in the system.
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Apart from some who had suffered performance issues pre-covid, there were also a few characters who thought it was the right thing to do to tell their former employer in no uncertain terms what they thought of them, in public, in return interviews, and/or across social media, but who still then expected to be offered their jobs back. Whether or not anyone else agreed with them, most thought it more prudent not to burn bridges. Apart from these handful of cases, Virgin did follow through on their promise to reemploy everyone else.
Some of those not invited back had perfect performance records, had never spoken out against the company publicly or in private discussions.
The then head of flight crew management made a point of needing to stamp his authority on the pilots and an easy way to do that was to use the returning pathway to bully and intimidate.
There are people that didn’t return that are taking the company to court yes, but equally there are people that returned or even didn’t even leave that are taking similar action, look out for a few to be coming out into the public domain soon.
A good question to ask is why do virgin have to scream so loudly about how great they are? Why do they make a noise about hiring women, when they were more likely to be made redundant and not return. Why do they need to shout about how inclusive they are in LGBTQ areas?
Don’t believe any of the public shine and glamor, virgin is now only leading in the race to the bottom. Virgin has and will always be fur coat, no knickers!
By all means come and join us, but do it with your eyes open and an escape plan in mind for the next redundancy program, because it’s not a case of if but when….
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Not that I have been made aware, but I just keep my head down and am just biding my time before I go to BA..
I would be highly surprised if that was the case as we have a continuous need to keep everyone current and in check…
Are you thinking new entries? That could be a possibility if they have a back log in recurrent…
I would be highly surprised if that was the case as we have a continuous need to keep everyone current and in check…
Are you thinking new entries? That could be a possibility if they have a back log in recurrent…
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Captains who were Board members/general members of an alternative pilot union who took previous industrial action in a recognition dispute - "failed" at interview.
Captain and local chair of BALPA council who oversaw the redundancy consultations, signed the "agreements" surrounding the process of redundancies, new pilot contracts, an industrial standstill agreement, new scheduling terms, and the re-employment process (that encompassed aforementioned interviews) - promoted to new Head of Flightcrew.
...facts, not "speculation"!
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Escaping a sinking ship.
From the conference call today apparently some 28 resignations this month alone, that’s got to tell you something (if I got that wrong I’ll edit, was half asleep from a flight).
I’ve heard of people going to BA especially now they are taking direct to LH, Jet2, DHL ( didn’t know they were hiring again), some back to easy and the Sandpit. Everyone you speak to is looking and thinking of jumping. It’s partly from the t&c’s and work life balance but also lots still not sure it’s going to survive. They keep saying this is the year they make money…well how have we not with the loads and the ticket prices?
i don’t know how many new joiners we are getting month but I would be shocked if it’s close to that many. So the end result is already tired and fed up crews are going to be worked harder and get more tired and go sick and the circle repeats…
and to really inspire the troops the new head of flight crew pilot manager or whatever silly title he’s given himself gave us all an admonishment about the Christmas sickness….
numbers wise about 9% down on the f/o ranks for the foreseeable future and most likely staying bad as more bug out.
I’ve heard of people going to BA especially now they are taking direct to LH, Jet2, DHL ( didn’t know they were hiring again), some back to easy and the Sandpit. Everyone you speak to is looking and thinking of jumping. It’s partly from the t&c’s and work life balance but also lots still not sure it’s going to survive. They keep saying this is the year they make money…well how have we not with the loads and the ticket prices?
i don’t know how many new joiners we are getting month but I would be shocked if it’s close to that many. So the end result is already tired and fed up crews are going to be worked harder and get more tired and go sick and the circle repeats…
and to really inspire the troops the new head of flight crew pilot manager or whatever silly title he’s given himself gave us all an admonishment about the Christmas sickness….
numbers wise about 9% down on the f/o ranks for the foreseeable future and most likely staying bad as more bug out.