LGW BA lite
Joined: Jan 2006
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: UK
You got redundancy through LIFO? Lucky you....some of us expected that after decades in post and it was denied. Don't bank on LIFO - if it is attacked, NOBODY wants to defend it! Including unions.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 180
From: USA
It is very strange that here in "the land of the free" (I am not originally from here, worked there till 05) pretty much every airline is unionized, all are LIFO, conditions (currently, at least) are way better. What happened in the EU that unions have no power, Wizz and Ryan thrive, BA has awful T/C (aso)?
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 132
Likes: 31
From: Middle East
Not saying it's right but the logic is that in difficult times, when a company is trying to reduce costs, LIFO might mean retraining someone on another type, which is a cost to the company, which is what they're trying to avoid.
Secondly, BA's employees are mostly from the UK, a Western European country where living costs are high and therefore salaries need to be commensurate with this. Ryanair and Wizz mostly hire cheap labour from Eastern Europe. Those airlines can therefore offer cheaper fares on the same routes. The legacy carriers have to (on some routes) compete with this. Big Europe allows these companies to take advantage of this. It is not a level playing field unfortunately, but it makes a lot of business men with friends in politics very wealthy. The US is a similar land mass size to Europe but it is one country with (broadly speaking) identical hiring and labour laws. Salaries from one state to the next are also near identical.
Secondly, BA's employees are mostly from the UK, a Western European country where living costs are high and therefore salaries need to be commensurate with this. Ryanair and Wizz mostly hire cheap labour from Eastern Europe. Those airlines can therefore offer cheaper fares on the same routes. The legacy carriers have to (on some routes) compete with this. Big Europe allows these companies to take advantage of this. It is not a level playing field unfortunately, but it makes a lot of business men with friends in politics very wealthy. The US is a similar land mass size to Europe but it is one country with (broadly speaking) identical hiring and labour laws. Salaries from one state to the next are also near identical.
Joined: Oct 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 332
Likes: 75
From: Oxford
Not saying it's right but the logic is that in difficult times, when a company is trying to reduce costs, LIFO might mean retraining someone on another type, which is a cost to the company, which is what they're trying to avoid.
Secondly, BA's employees are mostly from the UK, a Western European country where living costs are high and therefore salaries need to be commensurate with this. Ryanair and Wizz mostly hire cheap labour from Eastern Europe. Those airlines can therefore offer cheaper fares on the same routes. The legacy carriers have to (on some routes) compete with this. Big Europe allows these companies to take advantage of this. It is not a level playing field unfortunately, but it makes a lot of business men with friends in politics very wealthy. The US is a similar land mass size to Europe but it is one country with (broadly speaking) identical hiring and labour laws. Salaries from one state to the next are also near identical.
Secondly, BA's employees are mostly from the UK, a Western European country where living costs are high and therefore salaries need to be commensurate with this. Ryanair and Wizz mostly hire cheap labour from Eastern Europe. Those airlines can therefore offer cheaper fares on the same routes. The legacy carriers have to (on some routes) compete with this. Big Europe allows these companies to take advantage of this. It is not a level playing field unfortunately, but it makes a lot of business men with friends in politics very wealthy. The US is a similar land mass size to Europe but it is one country with (broadly speaking) identical hiring and labour laws. Salaries from one state to the next are also near identical.
Also difficult to unionise across so many countries & freedom of movement allows them to bring in crews from different countries to break strikes
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 13
Likes: 2
From: Whitehall
Secondly, BA's employees are mostly from the UK, a Western European country where living costs are high and therefore salaries need to be commensurate with this. Ryanair and Wizz mostly hire cheap labour from Eastern Europe. Those airlines can therefore offer cheaper fares on the same routes. The legacy carriers have to (on some routes) compete with this. Big Europe allows these companies to take advantage of this. It is not a level playing field unfortunately, but it makes a lot of business men with friends in politics very wealthy. The US is a similar land mass size to Europe but it is one country with (broadly speaking) identical hiring and labour laws. Salaries from one state to the next are also near identical.
You're 180 out, in Europe we have a level-ish playing field, in the US they have protectionism.
Joined: Oct 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 332
Likes: 75
From: Oxford
I don't think it's much to do with "Big Europe" or enriching businessmen. It's the free market responding to a globalised and easily relocated workforce. Can an expensive Western Europe based pilot add more value to the business than one who's located somewhere cheaper to live? If not, makes sense to outsource. Leads to cheaper fares and more people being able to enjoy air travel.
You're 180 out, in Europe we have a level-ish playing field, in the US they have protectionism.
You're 180 out, in Europe we have a level-ish playing field, in the US they have protectionism.
As you said yourself.
Would a low cost airline based in France be able to have the same cost base as one based in Romania.
Given all the employment protections and minimum pay etc etc.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 48
Is it that bad ?
...
1. See here for PPJN - DITW. Is PPJN dead?
2.
Well, possibly, but not as bad as this ...
Flybe recruitment.
At least in BA Lite LGW, you probably won't be forbidden to discuss T & C with any external agency ...
According to recent Telegraph scuttlebutt, New Flybe are requiring a prior Non Disclosure Agreement as a condition of employment.
LFH
...
Lots of talk but what is the actual offer and schedule for a DEC ?
PPJN seems a bit outdated and focused on the Embraers.
PPJN seems a bit outdated and focused on the Embraers.
2.
Is it that bad ?
Flybe recruitment.
At least in BA Lite LGW, you probably won't be forbidden to discuss T & C with any external agency ...
According to recent Telegraph scuttlebutt, New Flybe are requiring a prior Non Disclosure Agreement as a condition of employment.
LFH
...
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 218
Likes: 3
From: Brexland
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 171
Likes: 31
From: European riviera
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: London
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
What, you mean the chance to earn c£100k (not amazing, I admit) and be based near your home airport? I'd take that over earning £130k and being based in the a*se end of nowhere, thank you very much. Bad conditions in your eyes but decent in the eyes of many others I'd imagine.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 48
The Spanish Imposition
It *has* to get better soon...surely...!
Since the BA Gatwick Lite pilot voting hiatus last year - ("We'll ballot until you vote Yes") - BA Euroflyer, who will be operating on the BA AOC for a while, has since -
1. Unsurprisingly failed to attract enough volunteers from the ranks of serving BA captains and co-pilots and even from their own pool of temporary and permanent unwanted, who think that a fixed six year 'secondment' might be a freeze too far especially if they are close to the mandated requirements for command.
2. Boasted of the flood of qualified external applicants from Easyjet, Wizz, FR (who all seem to be paid significantly more than Euroflyer is offering) and from various dole queues around Europe - many of whom have since been ignored or failed to demonstrate any reasonable standard.
3. Had to arrange for promised flights to be operated to a large extent this year by - take your pick from - Vueling or Iberia Express, Finnair, Titan, BA Shorthaul at LHR etc.
The latest scuttlebutt according to our 'favourite's' apoplectic Captain in the pub last night, is that Iberia will be supplying a couple of dozen co-pilots specially promoted who will join Euroflyer on the BA MSL as DECs and as a sweetener, will have their pay enhanced by the parent company. Apparently a lot of that is 'according to the Spanish Pilots Union' who may have jumped the announcement gun, because it was 'news' to everyone else.
Thus there is likely to be much accusation and denial before all the ducks are singing from the same hymn sheet. The principal subject of outraged 'debate' seems to be - "What is Balpa doing to stand up for its members ?" - Short answer - "Nothing we can do, old boy, but stand by for comms."
Assuming he doesn't resign from Balpa (again) for Balpa's alleged support for the Spanish Imposition, we may find out more at Quiz Night on Friday, because he says BA has screwed up his recency (again) so he's lost another long trip (again). A long hot summer will not be good for his wellbeing.
LFH
...
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 48
...
It appears BA Euroflyer can't find enough properly qualified pilots to operate their 'planned' services from Gatwick even with scheduled backup from BA at Heathrow.
Our mate says his mate on the A320 is now getting regular 'begging texts' to be a good team player and nip down to Gatwick to help Euroflyer at short notice (ie. on the day.) He was well off his game at Quiz Night, fuming as well about silence from Balpa on this and similar problems at LHR. It needs to get sorted quick, or he's off our team as well.
No one seems to know whether Euroflyer has got any actual pilots of their own yet.
It must be costing someone a fortune, especially if Euroflyer has to contribute to 'Head Office Costs' on top of all the outsourcing.
LFH
It appears BA Euroflyer can't find enough properly qualified pilots to operate their 'planned' services from Gatwick even with scheduled backup from BA at Heathrow.
Our mate says his mate on the A320 is now getting regular 'begging texts' to be a good team player and nip down to Gatwick to help Euroflyer at short notice (ie. on the day.) He was well off his game at Quiz Night, fuming as well about silence from Balpa on this and similar problems at LHR. It needs to get sorted quick, or he's off our team as well.
No one seems to know whether Euroflyer has got any actual pilots of their own yet.
It must be costing someone a fortune, especially if Euroflyer has to contribute to 'Head Office Costs' on top of all the outsourcing.
LFH
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 368
Likes: 21
From: North of the M4
Sixteen aircraft according to the website so I guess about 80+ Captains. With such narrow experience criteria, I am not sure where they are going to find them. Poaching from Wizz and Easy seems to be the only option and they are unlikely to get many applicants from the latter.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 112
Likes: 7
From: Neverland
Sixteen aircraft according to the website so I guess about 80+ Captains. With such narrow experience criteria, I am not sure where they are going to find them. Poaching from Wizz and Easy seems to be the only option and they are unlikely to get many applicants from the latter.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
From: Switzerland
Has anyone gone for selection with BA recently? I have been told they have changed their Psychometric testing compared to previous years, as well as the assessment day in Waterside, it appears it runs slightly different than before.
If anyone has gone through selection recently can you post a quick recap? What were the psychometric tests like?
If anyone has gone through selection recently can you post a quick recap? What were the psychometric tests like?