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Old 9th Feb 2021, 12:52
  #81 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 567
For those saying BA is a European airline because it’s owned by IAG are missing the point. It is a UK airline for all intents and purposes. Due to the ability of other foreign nationals speaking level 4 English or better, there has always been more EU nationals working in the UK than the other way round. I can’t imagine there are more than a handful of Brits working for Iberia.
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Old 10th Feb 2021, 03:58
  #82 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: EU
Posts: 544
You clearly underestimate the number of UK nationals in easy and Ryan based in EUland (and not willing to go back).
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Old 10th Feb 2021, 07:25
  #83 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Neither here or there
Posts: 251
I don't think anyone is underplaying that fact. There are many but not a greater number than the opposite. I've had the fortune (or misfortune) of being based out of 10 Euro basis, Stansted and Gatwick. When operating out of the above two UK airports, all you need to do is open your eyes and ears to see what percentage of the pilots queuing up for security in the morning are Brits. Less than 40% at Stansted and about 60% at Gatwick. Now granted, Europe is 25+ countries but the conclusion is obvious. Britain serves up many more pilot jobs to Europeans than the other way around.
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Old 10th Feb 2021, 08:37
  #84 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: EU
Posts: 544
No, they (both EU and UK nationals) don't unless they comply with national requirements.
The British people voted to leave the EU and stop free movement between the island and the continent, you can't ignore that.

CW247 the only obvious conclusion is that you can't extrapolate "data" from two airports and state they're valid for the entire country. It's like saying that FR has a lot of foreign pilots in DUB, so that must also be true for Cork. Furthermore, your "survey" doesn't tell us anything about the number of UK pilots in the EU.
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Old 10th Feb 2021, 09:05
  #85 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Airport Hotel
Posts: 96
All rather sad and avoidable had the usual suspects (politicians) not sold lies and vague notions of “reclaiming sovereignty” to the voters back in 2016.
Alrosa is online now  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 10:32
  #86 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 567
We are now outside of Europe and we have to accept that. Many of our colleagues voted leave for quite understandable reasons. Whether they were right to do so will take years to work out, not weeks or months with the attendant short to mid term pain inevitable. I work for an EU airline but based in the UK with no automatic right to live and work in the EU any more. I transferred my UK EASA licence (as was then) to an Irish EASA one in summer 2019. There is huge uncertainty in our industry and it’s a real pity that the EASA issue could not have been handled way better.

Maybe, just maybe one day we will rejoin the EU but before that we really must understand how we ended up here in the first place! It goes back many decades and has its roots in the decline of Britain as a global power post WW2.
Crosswind Limits is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2021, 12:09
  #87 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: EU
Posts: 544
They'll need to get a recognized "settled" or "pre-settled" status (which is subject to an approval/denial process) and in most cases has a time limit.
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 09:11
  #88 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Oxford
Posts: 25
Any thoughts on what's going to happen with regards to work rights now that the deed is done? I currently hold a UK passport and an IAA license and I'm noticing gradually jobs are being advertised here and there across the European market. A lot of them specify "The right to live and work in the EU", how does one interpret that? Would that rule me off of being considered for a job, or would I be able to apply for the appropriate visas/permits should I pass the selection process. I have a slight bit of relief as I've held an IAA license for the last 3 years, however the right to work is a bit of a grey area as given the current circumstances I haven't really seen any UK nationals apply for jobs abroad so it is really hard for me to tell. Cheers folks!
CessNah is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 09:23
  #89 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: IRS NAV ONLY
Posts: 1,184
You need an EU passport or a valid work visa in order to be able to "live and work in the EU", there is no grey area. A company would only be able to sponsor you for a visa, if there is shortage of qualified applicants for the job - hardly the case in current circumstances.
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Old 16th Feb 2021, 09:23
  #90 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 882
Try it and see and let us know how it goes. My guess is one of the first questions will be ‘do you have the right to live and work in the eu?’ to which the answer will be ‘no’. ‘Thank you for your interest Mr CessNah, good luck in the future’.

I’m being flippant because it’s the only way I can deal with Brexit - the the gift that keeps on giving.

Good luck
deltahotel is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2021, 06:27
  #91 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Neither here or there
Posts: 251
I'm going to state for my own selfish purposes that the only way I'm going to be flying any time soon is if our government issues an outright ban on foreign charter operators doing business out of the UK on behalf of UK operators. Mark my words, the usual social dumpers are already sharpening their tools to pick up the slack because the horrid one way trade agreement allows them to.

If you haven't read the trade agreement. Do so and then hammer your local MP demanding an answer...
EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement on Aviation with respect to “Leasing” (section 7, PDF page 232). In the text it is stated that :

“air carriers of the United Kingdom (can use) aircraft leased with crew from other air carriers of the Parties”

“in the case of air carriers of the Union, using aircraft leased with crew from other air carriers of the Union"

Backed up by a few UK owned airlines:



Last edited by CW247; 17th Feb 2021 at 12:55.
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Old 24th Feb 2021, 07:25
  #92 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Londres
Posts: 3
Does anyone know of any of the national authorities in Europe that are still accepting license transfer as they were pre Brexit? I hear rumour that some are still accepting a straight forward paper transfer without the need to resit the ATPL exams, but cannot seem to find any further details. Any help gratefully received.
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Old 24th Feb 2021, 10:49
  #93 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: earth
Posts: 516
I sincerley doubt it, on EASA's website, regarding Brexit they say this

Your UK issued ATPL license will no longer be valid to operate an aircraft registered in an EASA Member State as of January 1, 2021. Unless you were able to transfer that license to an EASA Member State before January 1, 2021, you will need to convert it into an EU license in accordance with Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) No 2020/723. You can apply for that conversion to any of the EASA Member State competent authorities.

I hate to say this, but this has been a long time comming, you have had plenty of time to change it, its not like the local intergalatic planning office on Alpha Centuri.
ford cortina is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2021, 14:25
  #94 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 496
Unfortunately some of us were unable to SOLI prior to deadline day due to reasons outside of our control.

I received this from the IAA recently, I can't find any other information about it online but may be worth keeping an eye on:
In order to convert from your UK EASA licence you are required to complete the following;

  1. Hold a Class 1 EASA valid medical certificate
  2. Complete a Licence Skill Test
  3. Complete the 14 EASA theory examinations ( however I understand that a proposal is put to EASA in the next few weeks to see if the exams completed in the EASA state will be accepted, so just bear with us for the time been & monitor the IAA website.
OhNoCB is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2021, 16:43
  #95 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 75
Posts: 820
The EU has published this document: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...31(01)&from=EN
Part 2 refers to Aviatino etc and there is, somewhere in there, a section about equivalences re qualifications, licences etc.
Pour yourself a stiff one and settle down for a couple of hours!
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Old 3rd Mar 2021, 19:48
  #96 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: europe
Posts: 18
I worked for a UK airline last year and as everything was very unclear waited with transferring my UK EASA Part-FCL ATPL(A) license to one of another EASA state. As I could possibly shoot myself in the foot and lose my job if I did transfer my license and then it turned out I wouldnt be able to fly G reg airplanes anymore. You simply didnt know. Was all hear say and vague statements. Even the CAA told me on the phone to wait and there would be a grace period when all became clear. Obviously not!

I am from another European EASA country and did all my flight training there and got my EASA Part-FCL license there. I changed my license to a UK EASA one as my British employer requested. No problem under EASA, right.

Now to KEEP my EASA license I have to do all the same EASA exams again that I already did in my home country, EASA state, before? How ridiculous is that? My license doesnt say anything else nor has been converted to a national license yet and says European EASA license on it. So does that then have any value anymore at all? And everyone who has such a license cant fly any airplanes at the moment as those licenses arent good for anything and basically expired. As when one would get ramp checked now they hold a non existing type of license.

Better hope there comes a solution for this soon.
Horsepowerrr is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2021, 19:55
  #97 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: europe
Posts: 18
There is a petition out there that might be useful and do something or have some effect.
Horsepowerrr is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2021, 19:56
  #98 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: europe
Posts: 18
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 09:59
  #99 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,406
Good luck with that, and i do mean it.

Currently the UK is doing quite a bit to antagonize the EU where it can, so good will from the EU, and it would require good will, is probably in quite short supply. Not to mention, that currently many business areas are hurting under the new rules and all are lobbying for change.

There was ample warning about the loss of EASA license privileges, i believe EASA published their first advice in 2017 for a possible hard brexit. Which did happen for services now. And that was clear from the negotiation direction of the UK since around a year ago, which is while some UK companies actively switched their pilots (and Flight Attendants) licenses to european in preparation for that, like the orange bunch for example did. Including some UK based trainers from what i hear, as it was quite clear from the UK CAA pretty early on that it would accept a conversion from EASA to UK licenses in the beginning.
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 13:15
  #100 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: europe
Posts: 18
It was all hear say and not solid. I specifically asked the CAA last November if they would accept EASA state licenses to fly a G reg airplane and they said they didnít know what was going to happen exactly and was better to wait as there would be a grace period after it would be clear how it would all settle.

I couldnít take the risk to lose my flying job in the UK due to a hard Brexit with me holding a flying license in any European EASA state and then not being able to fly a G reg. Nobody knew what was exactly going to happen.
If it means I have to do a few exams and another LPC so be it, but it is of course ridiculous.
My license was issued when it was fully IAW the current EASA rules and my TRE on the last company LPC was not even British, but an EASA state TRE. So what if that TRE fills out paperwork of an EASA state now for that same check ride?

My license is and says itís an EASA Part-FCL license. Itís not a national license, yet. That a nation moves out of the organization doesnít mean the license isnít anymore according to the regulations. Wouldnít that be discrimination? What if I would get ramp checked in the US or Asia. My license as it is now doesnít exist?

Itís weird. And doesnít seem right.

By the way, many airlines set up European AOCís and all due to not being able to otherwise operate in both Europe and the UK. Not because they knew EASA licenses would be accepted in the UK. They separated the two.
My airline/ employer operates in the UK and Europe and didnít know what to do with crew licensing really and separated them and also the AOCís.
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