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UK to EASA

Old 5th May 2021, 07:43
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
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This is what you can see on the EASA homepage in their Brexit FAQs: I am a holder of a UK issued ATPL and would like to convert that license into a license from an EASA Member State. How should I proceed?From January 01, 2021, your UK issued ATPL license is no longer valid to operate an aircraft registered in an EASA Member State. Unless you were able to transfer that license to an EASA Member State before that date, you will need to convert it into an EU license in accordance with Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) No 2020/723. You can apply for that conversion to any of the EASA Member State competent authorities.
The description of that Regulation is:

Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2020/723 of 4 March 2020 laying down detailed rules with regard to the acceptance of third-country certification of pilots and amending Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011

Therefore it appears that no agreement has been found. Which is not really surprising that all of the 19 committees contained in the TCA have not been working until May 1st, as the UK was not willing to convene any of them as long as the EU had not ratified the TCA. There might be some work in one of those committees about that issue, but i see no real enthusiasm on the EU side in that regard as long as the UK is still not applying the TCA and the WA in full, see the arguments about the NI Protocol (WA) and cutting Jerseys electricity supply off (TCA).
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Old 5th May 2021, 07:49
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
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747AC,

EASA have agreed to allow ATPL theory exams undertaken in the uk pre 1/1/21 to be valid for the purpose of obtaining an EASA licence. As of yet nothing further has been agreed but theres significant pressure to make this process simpler.
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Old 5th May 2021, 08:25
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
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No, EASA has actually not agreed to that. The only exceptions is for student pilots who did their exams in the UK prior to January 1st. Some local authorities do see that as a blanket approval to accept all exams, but that is actually not in agreement with EASA guidelines at this time. Local authorities do have a limited leeway in interpretation of rules, however those could be open to legal challenges, not that i see a huge chance of those.

Current EASA guideline is:

The UK CAA is developing a simplified application and validation procedure for recent holders of UK-issued Part FCL licenses. Does EASA plan to implement a similar application and validation procedure for recent holders of EASA licenses?

Source: UK CAA

For the time being, there is no plan to develop a simplified application and validation procedure. Accordingly, any validation or conversion of a UK issued license should be done in accordance with Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) No 2020/723
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Old 5th May 2021, 08:42
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Denti,

Take your politics elsewhere, it’s getting very boring now. The guy asked for help so give it to him. NAAs are accepting ATPL exams completed pre brexit, they were informed by EASA.

I can confirm this is correct as my son has just had his UK ATPLs accepted for this very purpose.
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Old 5th May 2021, 09:46
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Thanks guys,

It just seems unclear at the moment whether this applies to everyone who already have a UK CAA Atpl or current students in the process of obtaining a licence. I've been in touch with a couple authorities and hope to get a better understanding.

Hope the process is simple.

Cheers
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Old 5th May 2021, 10:04
  #126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
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I think the problem is that no one really knows at the minute simply because the UK dropped out without a definite agreement in the TCA. There is scope for further agreements which is most likely but when that may be is anyones guess. EASA ought to do the decent thing and offer a simplified process for all those who held EASA licences and completed EASA training courses to be able to re apply for a new EASA licence.

And before Denti comes steaming in crying “third country, third country”, those who attained those Licences pre-Brexit did so as part of and in accordance with all EASA standards and regulations. Allowing those to regain sought privileges gained pre-Brexit is the only sensible way forward. Making them redo the exact same thing they’ve just done is just nonsensical.

For those finishing in 2021 this is where things may take some time to rectify as agreements will have to be sought.

Good luck.

Last edited by Contact Approach; 5th May 2021 at 10:43.
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Old 5th May 2021, 11:30
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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There is no politics, i was just posting the official EASA information. It helps reading their brexit page.

Some NAAs do accept the exams, although EASA rules are very clear and do allow that only for student pilots in an integrated (not modular) program. They might be open to legal challenges, although that is very unlikely.

And no, of course EASA does not have the ability to change primary legislation. Third country license approval, and yes, sadly that is the legal status no matter what happened before, requires at least a Commission Directive like the one i linked above which was actually updated to deal specifically with Brexit in late 2020. That is simply EU rules 101.

The politics part is if there are any negotiations. And no, currently there are no negotiations in that area and there is no desire in the EU to do so as there is no pressing demand from either side, no matter how hard that might hit individuals.
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Old 5th May 2021, 12:00
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
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Denti,

  • Provide a certificate of ATPL theoretical exams completed in accordance with FCL 0.25(c)(1). UK exams will be accepted provided they were completed prior to 31/12/20 and remain valid.
  • XXX will continue to accept theoretical knowledge examination completion certificates for the purpose of issuing Part-FCL licenses and ratings in accordance with either Regulation (EU) 1178/2011 or Delegated Regulation (EU) 2020/723, provided that those examination completion certificates are still within their validity period in accordance with FCL.025(c) in Annex 1 to Regulation (EU) 1178/2011 and provided that they were issued by the UK CAA before 1 January 2021 in full compliance with Annex 1 (Part-FCL) to Regulation (EU) 1178/2011.
Here are two responses from two independent EASA NAAs on this very topic. Where does it say it has to be integrated not modular?

You’re just clogging this thread up with useless information. People have lost their careers and spent thousands of euros and many years training for the privileges that they’ve just had revoked at no fault of their own. Your posts lack fact, tact and serve no purpose other than to rub it in their faces.

Be part of the solution not the problem.

Last edited by Contact Approach; 5th May 2021 at 12:19.
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Old 5th May 2021, 14:21
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
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There is also this. FCL.025 (c) (2)

(c) Validity period
(1) .....
(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence; or
(ii) in the case of helicopters, a helicopter’s type rating entered in that licence.

Have asked one of the States mentioned above if this means that UK CPL/IR or ATPL holders with exams still valid under this EU law can apply for EASA licences with just the skills test and class 1 to do. Will report back when I hear.
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Old 5th May 2021, 15:22
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
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I have queried the above with the IAA and been told that:

1) The allowance for exams applies to student pilots only, not for those who have already got a licence
2) Despite the allowance mentioning exams valid in accordance with FCL.025(c), they see it as FCL.025(c)(1) only and will not accept validity under FCL.025(c)(2).

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Old 5th May 2021, 17:06
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
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Ahh, bless. Well excuse (1) is wrong because the 7 year validity becomes live for CPL IR holders on passing their IR and allows them to upgrade to ATPL without taking the ATPL exams again and (2) this is an EU regulation, not in their discretion, so they really should comply. Let's see what Austro say. One often gets answers 'shot from the hip' without proper consideration. Of course this question has only arisen since exit day.
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Old 6th May 2021, 00:45
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Hi All,

Apologies if this has been asked before, but here goes.

Iím a British Citizen and work for a British company. I hold a UK CAA issued ATPL(A) but couldnít SOLI my licence before January due to work.

I would quite like to get an EASA licence back if possible with minimum hassle of course (maybe wishful thinking!).

My initial ATPL exams (completed in 2007) and CPL training was completed via and integrated course at a UK ATO and so therefore I started with a UK issued EASA CPL (frozen ATPL if you like). However I did have to SOLI my licence to a non UK EASA state when I worked abroad from 2012 to early 2016 (I moved the state of licence back to the UK when I left that job).

As I previously held a non UK EASA licence, does that give me the option to reapply to that EASA state to get my ATPL back again? (Therefore holding two licences without the hassle of 14 exams etc), or is it just wishful thinking?
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Old 6th May 2021, 09:50
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Herein lies the problem whereby suitably experienced Pilots are being made to resit everything needlessly despite having previously held EASA credentials and years of experience behind them. This situation is absurd. Richard, nobody currently knows, not even EASA.
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Old 6th May 2021, 11:06
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: na
Posts: 128
Hi,

I successfully completed mine in 2009.

As Alex quote;

FCL.025 (c) states the following:
Validity period(1) The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid:
(i) for the issue of a light aircraft pilot licence or a private pilot licence, for a period of 24 months;
(ii) for the issue of a commercial pilot licence, instrument rating (IR) or en route instrument rating (EIR), for a period of 36 months;
(iii) the periods in (i) and (ii) shall be counted from the day when the pilot successfully completes the theoretical knowledge examination, in accordance with (b)(2).
(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence; or
(ii) in the case of helicopters, a helicopter’s type rating entered in that licence.
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Old 6th May 2021, 11:16
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Contact Approach

I don't get it? It was clearly spelled out in the lead up to brexit. That in case of a hard brexit that a UK issued pilots licenses would no longer be a valid easa license. I too held a uk licence up to a year or two ago. It was clear to me, even back then. I don't know what to say, If you couldn't SOLI due to being employed by a UK employer, you might have some sort of legal recourse, between you and your current or former employer. But to those who are claiming ignorance, come on guys, you should have known better.
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Old 7th May 2021, 00:05
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Alex Whittingham

I agree, but unfortunately they no longer even respond to my emails as 'the decision is final'.
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Old 7th May 2021, 06:38
  #137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
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Lear999wa,

I have an EASA licence but i don’t wish to join you on your high horse. I may not be directly affected but many of my friends and relatives are and unfortunately for them they are stuck in the mud. Just because you were able to jump ship that’s not to say everyone could. Like i’ve said before there’s absolutely no reason why EASA can’t reissue new EASA licences to those who held them previously pre Brexit, if those individuals so wish, none whatsoever.
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Old 7th May 2021, 07:13
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: N/A
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Any UK guys who did SOLI manage to get the UK national license back yet ? A ďsimplifiedĒ process doesnít seem to be delivering yet.
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Old 7th May 2021, 08:09
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Paris
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Plenty of European pilots who couldn’t for whatever reason, SOLI back to EASA pre Jan, are now being seriously disadvantaged by EASAs inflexibility.
I get it that EASA would want to make it difficult for third country Pilots (even though the UK have been magnanimous in granting a two year validity for EASA pilots), but to place unnecessary and costly barriers to its own citizens is nuts!
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Old 7th May 2021, 17:50
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Narnia
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Contact Approach

For the n'th time, how can EASA oversee CAA after a hard Brexit?
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