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UK to EASA

Old 24th Sep 2020, 19:55
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: LHR and beyond
Posts: 137
Pardon my dim question, but AFTER Jan 1st 2021, can we not apply to any other EASA Member State for an EASA ATPL and also run your UK ATPL in parallel?

Surely having 2 licenses (UK ATPL and EASA ATPL) is the best option.

Just wondering why people keep talking about transferring when this might be another option.

pea size brain back below parapet.

fast cruiser is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2020, 05:22
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK
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fast cruiser

My understanding is under EASA you can’t hold two of the same licence. So whilst UK are in the club you can’t have an CAA and EASA licence. Instead you transfer to the EASA licence.

however once brexit has happened you will be able to apply and gain a second UK licence.

it’s all a bit of a faf, and you need to be careful ratings don’t get lost etc.
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 07:19
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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fast cruiser

No one seems to be able to provide any clarity on it, more a "wait and see" which may very well turn out to be too late for some. It's my understanding though, that come 1 JAN you would no longer be an EASA license holder so from that point not able to transfer to another state (unless some dispensation is granted from EASAs side). It's a pity you can't get the ball rolling with the CAA for processing the UK ATPL, ready to be issued in early JAN because I can see that taking some time and creating a bit of a grey area. Are there any airlines that stipulate that come 1JAN, you must have a UK only ATPL, despite the CAA saying they'll recognise EASA for a couple of years?
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 09:40
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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It seems that, if you hold a licence now ith the UK as SOLI, then if you take no action this will become a UK only licence at the end of this year. As some say above there is nothing that says that after this year EASA will treat this as anything other than a third party ICAO licence and, if you wanted an EASA licence after that date you would have to retake all the ATPLs and take an ATPL skill test just like an FAA licence holder would. On the other hand, if you transfer your SOLI now to another EASA State your EASA licence will be maintained and the UK CAA say they will then issue you a UK ATPL on an equivalent basis.
Alex Whittingham is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2020, 09:52
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: United Kingdom
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According to the UKCAA website they will issue you with a license validation (if you wish to transfer back from EASA to U.K.) which isn’t a proper UK ATPL license. It’s unfortunate that politics once again are playing with the livelihoods of many...nobody really knows what is actually going to happen come 1st of Jan. All the statements I’ve read only use the term “may” at the moment!
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 09:59
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Not being able to work in Europe seems to be a bigger issue than were your licence comes from surely.
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 10:36
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, the FAQ says 'can I be issued with', the answer says 'Yes' and then has the word 'validation' in it, which I think is new and for me confusing, older versions just said they would issue a UK licence. FAQ and response below. I do agree that it is now time for the UK CAA to come off the fence, stop saying 'may', and now tell us what they actually will do.

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Old 25th Sep 2020, 11:29
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Its cristal clear: UK people voted for Brexit, now it looks like no-deal Brexit, even being sorry for many colleagues, but cherry pickig never worked and also will not work in future, saying that, I am aftraid UK aviators without EASA licence will not work in EU, as simple as that, specially after the latest political actions regarding the intention of a no-deal-exit I am afraid none of the above mentioned "transition procedures" will work.
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 13:49
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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One will certainly be able obtain an EASA license in one way or the other, just like an FAA license, but it won't be of much help if you won't have the right to live and work in an EU country.
Banana Joe is online now  
Old 25th Sep 2020, 16:14
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 20
Itís all academic at the moment as there are no jobs anywhere, but thousands of unemployed pilots. Not sure if any license makes a difference at the moment!
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 16:43
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
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You are right. But it will in the future.
UK CAA is leaving EASA.
Very simple. No right to live and work, no EASA license, no job in Europe.
Same it goes the way around.
In year 2021.
Awesome.
LorisBatacchi is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2020, 09:45
  #32 (permalink)  
Aso
 
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Surely having 2 licenses (UK ATPL and EASA ATPL) is the best option.
Ehh just having ONE is the best option.... Leaving EASA is the stupidest thing proposed by Johnson..

Best advice given on this topic is by Alex who knows his stuff so stop reading the Daily Mail or Sun to get your Brexit advice. You just read it here on PPRuNe for free by a man who knows what he is talking about instead of reading all the opinions of people who "think" what will, should, could, has to happen.....
It seems that, if you hold a licence now ith the UK as SOLI, then if you take no action this will become a UK only licence at the end of this year. As some say above there is nothing that says that after this year EASA will treat this as anything other than a third party ICAO licence and, if you wanted an EASA licence after that date you would have to retake all the ATPLs and take an ATPL skill test just like an FAA licence holder would. On the other hand, if you transfer your SOLI now to another EASA State your EASA licence will be maintained and the UK CAA say they will then issue you a UK ATPL on an equivalent basis.
Aso is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2020, 10:31
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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=Aso;10894088]Ehh just having ONE is the best option.... Leaving EASA is the stupidest thing proposed by Johnson.
Of course, in an ideal world, but we have to play the cards he dealt us, and that looks like a UK permanent resident may be far better placed if they have a non UK EASA licence and cover both bases. How much that is so, depends on whether European operators put EU registered planes based in the UK (can they do that, but if they do, the pilots would need a UK right to work, together with an easa license?). And with a uk valuation, could the pilot fly a mix of UK and EU registered planes as they circulate through UK bases? (eg easyjet, wizz - not at the moment, I believe).
Time Traveller is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2020, 12:44
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: United Kingdom
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This basically sums up the conundrum for those who are sitting on the fence. Nobody knows how all of this is going to be resolved. Should Ryan, Easy and others decide to have planes being based in the UK(UK registered) and being flown with EASA licenses (although on a Validation) UK Pilots will rightly be up in arms. It’s just totally annoying that politics is playing with people’s livelihoods. I don’t understand why this Government decided to leave EASA when others that aren’t in the EU are happy being members? It’s going to cost the UK far more as we are just being shown with Galileo...completely bonkers...
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 13:07
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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I guess we can thank the 17.4m well-educated people who have no doubt performed thorough research and voted the way they did in 2016.
FlyingStone is online now  
Old 28th Sep 2020, 13:10
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
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I don't think there would be any particular objection - PROVIDED said pilots are UK citizens, or have permanent right to remain. After all, there are several European operator's aircraft based in the UK already, flown by Brits on easa licences. What is beyond the pale is the advert I saw for a UK based crew member, who must have permanent EU citizenship. Errrr; No!
Joe le Taxi is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2020, 08:02
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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And why not? If the employer wants the flexibility to use a crew member with UK residency or dual citizenship both in the UK and EU, why not? I guess the pool is not exceptionally large, safe for the fact that anyone who relocates to the UK until the end of the year is eligible for protected status and eventually full residency. Same of course is true for the other way round. As it should be.
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 14:45
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Even requiring dual citizenship is still a bit dubious under EU law with the UK still subject to freedom of movement/common employment rights. My understanding is that, prior to the end of the transition period, you can't specify/rule out certain nationalities for a job,so it's illegal to exclude Brits (especially for a job based in the UK - that's really cheeky, I'm amazed you think it's ok), and after Brexit, it would be illegal to hire for a job in the UK with no right to work there (which sole EU citizens probably won't have unless they're already resident.) My cynicism made me think they wanted a European citizen quickly based in the UK, so they could keep the uk job after Brexit, and move to Europe if required, or just a client preference. It was only one biz jet post, Gmail address. I haven't seen any European operator's looking for only Brits for an EU basing, no continentals! Strange that!

Last edited by Joe le Taxi; 29th Sep 2020 at 15:17.
Joe le Taxi is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2020, 19:41
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: UK
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Hi guys, I am planning on going to Greece this Nov to complete my CPL/ME/IR. I am currently in the process of transferring my licence and medical from UK CAA to the HCAA and will hopefully be issued an EASA CPL/ME/IR early next year. I have done my atpl theory through Austro. I plan to return to the UK so based on the information given above I will get a validation of some sort to operate UK G-reg a/c? Will this validation mean a UK licence at all? I hope there will be no further training involved? Thanks
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 14:32
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Joe le Taxi

Well, it is not as easy as that. Every brit born in NI has permanent EU citizenship if he so chooses. And that continues after Brexit. It would be therefore interesting to see a court case brought against that employer and how it is argued. Of course it would be much more correct to require permanent right to live and work in the EU for the job, as that does not discriminate based on country of origin (which is not allowed under EU law, no idea about UK internal law). Both ways to frame it, however, do not forbid those brits that have the permanent right to live and work in the EU to apply, and those are actually quite a few.

Indeed you might be right, it could be that they wanted a non british EU citizen to move to the UK to get residency (again, move on the 31st of december and that is still legal to get residency). However, if it is for a biz jet it might be that there is a high chance that the owner will relocate to the EU in the next years and does not want to rehire his pilots. After all, Euro clearing in the UK will end within a year and a lot of assets and the institutions that use and work with them have to move, financial services are, after all, not part of the current negotiations, everything about them will be unilaterally decided by the EU at their leisure and can be changed with 3 months notice.
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