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Originally Posted by excrab
Probably is the right forum as it’s of interest to people applying for jobs, although tbh I expect most out of work pilots would sign a contract with the devil at the moment, especially if they’re not type rated.
Before I start I will just say that 1. Jet2 have a social media policy which says that employees shouldn’t mention that they work there on social media and 2. I’m a member of BALPA. That’s important because this story in the independent had almost certainly come from BALPA. For those that don’t know BALPA only have recognition at J2 because they went to ACAS when the company refused to recognise them. There has been a continual battle since as the company will only negotiate on the absolute minimum things which they have to, and refuse to enter into discussions about rostering. This stance seems to be to the advantage of the pilots in some ways, as the company generally gives fairly generous pay increases very early in the negotiating process so that BALPA can’t claim to have negotiated it.
The rostering /fatigue issues are a different subject and my experience will be different to others and will depend on seat and base. But my experience this summer is that, if I worked for them, apart from a period of disruption for a few weeks in May / June is that it’s no better or worse than any of the six other airlines I’ve worked for. If I have concerns about discretion I can call crewing and refuse to work into it which I have done, and had no comeback. I’ve submitted a future fatigue report once this summer and my roster was changed as a result and the only communication was the roster change and an email from crewing saying that they agreed with my concerns. We had an email from BALPA a couple of days ago saying that some of the problems had been caused by inexperienced crewing officers, and I suspect that is true, a few times I’ve spoken to them and had to quote the rules of the crewing agreement, but I’ve done that and spoken to crewing supervisors and problems ha e been sorted. Just like other places I’ve worked.
At some point someone is going to come on here and go on about me drinking “the company cool aid”. As a general principle I would like to see more cooperation with the union, but bearing in mind what this thread is about I’m prepared to put up with it this summer because of the unusual world events of the last two years.
and the bad news for some people reading this is that crew gossip says there were 4000 applications for approximately 100 DEP positions, so it looks like plenty of other people will put up with it too.
Before I start I will just say that 1. Jet2 have a social media policy which says that employees shouldn’t mention that they work there on social media and 2. I’m a member of BALPA. That’s important because this story in the independent had almost certainly come from BALPA. For those that don’t know BALPA only have recognition at J2 because they went to ACAS when the company refused to recognise them. There has been a continual battle since as the company will only negotiate on the absolute minimum things which they have to, and refuse to enter into discussions about rostering. This stance seems to be to the advantage of the pilots in some ways, as the company generally gives fairly generous pay increases very early in the negotiating process so that BALPA can’t claim to have negotiated it.
The rostering /fatigue issues are a different subject and my experience will be different to others and will depend on seat and base. But my experience this summer is that, if I worked for them, apart from a period of disruption for a few weeks in May / June is that it’s no better or worse than any of the six other airlines I’ve worked for. If I have concerns about discretion I can call crewing and refuse to work into it which I have done, and had no comeback. I’ve submitted a future fatigue report once this summer and my roster was changed as a result and the only communication was the roster change and an email from crewing saying that they agreed with my concerns. We had an email from BALPA a couple of days ago saying that some of the problems had been caused by inexperienced crewing officers, and I suspect that is true, a few times I’ve spoken to them and had to quote the rules of the crewing agreement, but I’ve done that and spoken to crewing supervisors and problems ha e been sorted. Just like other places I’ve worked.
At some point someone is going to come on here and go on about me drinking “the company cool aid”. As a general principle I would like to see more cooperation with the union, but bearing in mind what this thread is about I’m prepared to put up with it this summer because of the unusual world events of the last two years.
and the bad news for some people reading this is that crew gossip says there were 4000 applications for approximately 100 DEP positions, so it looks like plenty of other people will put up with it too.
One thing I would add is that if someone seen my rosters for July and August they would probably balk and say that is fatiguing, I would agree, they have been and will be, but I personally can tolerate two to three months of peak summer rosters on the basis that I get 6 to 7 months in the winter of flying once or twice a week on average. This suits me personally and can see the grass on the other side of the hill to make me push through. If things changed and July/August rosters became the norm with 550-600 hrs a year morphing into 800-850 hours a year then it wouldn't be sustainable and that is a risk going forward as the company continues to grow, but with the seasonal nature of the holiday business its unlikely.
As far as flagging fatigue goes I believe the system has improved massively in the last year or so and there dosent seem to be any fear of calling fatigue or future fatigue among the crews and that is definitely a good thing. From what I have read Easyjet seem to lead the way in this department and its a good thing it is becoming more accepted within companies in the UK that sometimes you have to put your hands up and say I can't do this.
As for Balpa, I'm not a member which is a shame as I come from a family of trade unionists but they need to sort out this Delta nonsense at BA before they start worrying about Jet2 in ordsr to get their credibility back, because right now they have none and no way of attracting new members.
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Originally Posted by midnight cruiser
All balpa would like to do at jet2 given free reign, as is their peculiar blinkered mindset, is to implant an anachronistic seniority list (to the detriment of the pilots as a whole), and naff all else. That the toxic tentacles of balpa haven't made their way far into jet2 is a major plus in its favour.
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Originally Posted by midnight cruiser
The balpa capitulation to airline managements to avoid redundancies at all costs (very considerable costs to the long term pay benchmark) was one of their most lamentable recent legacies IMO, which strangely enough, airlines are reluctant to unwind. Will most pilots quit at the sub par pay? - No, because they don't want to lose their seniority and start again. Any wonder therefore, that in this respect, jet2 can hold it's head high. And a balpa NO easyJet pilot seemed remarkably fond of seniority lists, pretty much to the exclusion of all else, when guiding a naïve bunch of CCs at another airline.
Last edited by Stone Cold II; 28th Jul 2022 at 18:06.
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The new recruits will be mainly FO’s as a lot of internal promotions. Currently Airbus TRI and Apprentice interviews running with some rated, current FO’s. Order of interviews to my knowledge at the moment is DEC Airbus TRI, Rated FO, Apprentice, NTR FO, DEC. Majority FO’s so number of DEC rated and NTR will be small. Total required at moment around 200 but could change. Over 7000 applications.
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Originally Posted by Vokes55
On what planet do you have to live to believe that having next to no union recognition is better than having a strong union?
Delusional.
Delusional.
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Originally Posted by Lazydogg
100 percent. It is pathetic.
That’s an opinion.
Personally I know people who hate BALPA and I know people who love them. I know people who have been helped enormously, and people who have been shafted.
My personal opinion is that unions in general are actually quite toothless, and peoples expectations of them are far in excess of what in reality a union can deliver.
The problem at Jet2 is that there are 2 employee bodies negotiating for the pilot work force. One that the company engages with and one that they don’t. I think when/if the body that the company engages with stops producing results that benefit the pilot workforce BALPA may become more important.
Overall I have been a BALPA member for over 25 years. I have paid an awful lot of money to them. With hindsight I’m not sure I have received value for money.
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Originally Posted by Lazydogg
100 percent. It is pathetic.
So is wanting to do 900 hours a year, living out of a suitcase in a different hotel each night, or spending days away from your family whilst shoving a delta pay cut (despite the excellently strong union?!) up your behind all because you want to say you work for a certain airline.
Alternatively the circa 500 hours I do a year for an airline in rude financial health, working 3-4 days a week makes my 8%+ pay rise this year, profit share bonus, share options, 140k/Yr salary and the next 5 weekends off having saved thousands in Balpa fees seem somehow...worth it.
Each to their own though, I don't begrudge you for putting up with any of the above and if being a Ryanair trainer or telling people you're a BA pilot is enough for you to put up with it then good for you. If you're happy then so am I.
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I was a BALPA member at previous outfit. Never again.
When I needed help personally they were pretty useless.
For the amount you pay it’s a joke Union. Outside of aviation I have worked at places with unions and without. I would say at places where unions are strong have been slightly better.
BALPA laughing all the way to the bank from BA membership. If BA had amazing T+Cs similar to say Air France then ok it would be worth every penny. They don’t.
When I needed help personally they were pretty useless.
For the amount you pay it’s a joke Union. Outside of aviation I have worked at places with unions and without. I would say at places where unions are strong have been slightly better.
BALPA laughing all the way to the bank from BA membership. If BA had amazing T+Cs similar to say Air France then ok it would be worth every penny. They don’t.
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Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
Alternatively the circa 500 hours I do a year for an airline in rude financial health, working 3-4 days a week makes my 8%+ pay rise this year, profit share bonus, share options, 140k/Yr salary and the next 5 weekends off having saved thousands in Balpa fees seem somehow...worth it.
Not sure what “rude financial health” means either, but Jet2’s latest financial report was pretty dire and they’re certainly the most exposed airline to potential fuel price increases, recession and inflation.
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Originally Posted by Vokes55
Funny how it’s only Jet2 pilots that feel the need to shout about their T&Cs and tell everyone how great their lives supposedly are. I believe “inferiority complex” is the polite term here.
Not sure what “rude financial health” means either, but Jet2’s latest financial report was pretty dire and they’re certainly the most exposed airline to potential fuel price increases, recession and inflation.
Not sure what “rude financial health” means either, but Jet2’s latest financial report was pretty dire and they’re certainly the most exposed airline to potential fuel price increases, recession and inflation.
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3 or 4 working day week? You must be on the 757.
I don’t know anyone on the 737 who isn’t finding it pretty relentless at the moment! Wasn’t it just posted about Jet2 management refusing to acknowledge the fatigue concerns? Crew I heard on the crew bus the other day sounded pretty wrecked on day 6!
Jet2 is a good outfit no doubt about it and is probably is one of the better gigs for SH in the U.K. right now.
My opinion on BALPA, depends really which airline I suppose. I know some in BA hate them, in the land of orange they have been excellent, especially the past 3yrs they have excelled. I had an issue many years ago and they dealt with it promptly.
I don’t know anyone on the 737 who isn’t finding it pretty relentless at the moment! Wasn’t it just posted about Jet2 management refusing to acknowledge the fatigue concerns? Crew I heard on the crew bus the other day sounded pretty wrecked on day 6!
Jet2 is a good outfit no doubt about it and is probably is one of the better gigs for SH in the U.K. right now.
My opinion on BALPA, depends really which airline I suppose. I know some in BA hate them, in the land of orange they have been excellent, especially the past 3yrs they have excelled. I had an issue many years ago and they dealt with it promptly.
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Originally Posted by Whitemonk Returns
There isn't a Jet2 pilot feeling inferior to any other UK airline these days, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
But there is one jet2 pilot that acts superior to any other pilot right now….. I expect your complex is a need for self gratification,but whatever helps you get off at night
white spunk remains
Last edited by there she blows; 31st Jul 2022 at 02:02.
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Originally Posted by Vokes55
Funny how it’s only Jet2 pilots that feel the need to shout about their T&Cs and tell everyone how great their lives supposedly are. I believe “inferiority complex” is the polite term here.
Not sure what “rude financial health” means either, but Jet2’s latest financial report was pretty dire and they’re certainly the most exposed airline to potential fuel price increases, recession and inflation.
Not sure what “rude financial health” means either, but Jet2’s latest financial report was pretty dire and they’re certainly the most exposed airline to potential fuel price increases, recession and inflation.
I wonder why you don't like to hear that other pilots are perfectly happy?!
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Originally Posted by Stone Cold II
3 or 4 working day week? You must be on the 757.
Jet2 is a good outfit no doubt about it and is probably is one of the better gigs for SH in the U.K. right now.
Jet2 is a good outfit no doubt about it and is probably is one of the better gigs for SH in the U.K. right now.
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Originally Posted by Vokes55
Funny how it’s only Jet2 pilots that feel the need to shout about their T&Cs and tell everyone how great their lives supposedly are. I believe “inferiority complex” is the polite term here.
Not sure what “rude financial health” means either, but Jet2’s latest financial report was pretty dire and they’re certainly the most exposed airline to potential fuel price increases, recession and inflation.
Not sure what “rude financial health” means either, but Jet2’s latest financial report was pretty dire and they’re certainly the most exposed airline to potential fuel price increases, recession and inflation.
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Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
So is paying for your own uniform, car park pass, sim time, line training, hotac, transport etc..
So is wanting to do 900 hours a year, living out of a suitcase in a different hotel each night, or spending days away from your family whilst shoving a delta pay cut (despite the excellently strong union?!) up your behind all because you want to say you work for a certain airline.
Alternatively the circa 500 hours I do a year for an airline in rude financial health, working 3-4 days a week makes my 8%+ pay rise this year, profit share bonus, share options, 140k/Yr salary and the next 5 weekends off having saved thousands in Balpa fees seem somehow...worth it.
Each to their own though, I don't begrudge you for putting up with any of the above and if being a Ryanair trainer or telling people you're a BA pilot is enough for you to put up with it then good for you. If you're happy then so am I.
So is wanting to do 900 hours a year, living out of a suitcase in a different hotel each night, or spending days away from your family whilst shoving a delta pay cut (despite the excellently strong union?!) up your behind all because you want to say you work for a certain airline.
Alternatively the circa 500 hours I do a year for an airline in rude financial health, working 3-4 days a week makes my 8%+ pay rise this year, profit share bonus, share options, 140k/Yr salary and the next 5 weekends off having saved thousands in Balpa fees seem somehow...worth it.
Each to their own though, I don't begrudge you for putting up with any of the above and if being a Ryanair trainer or telling people you're a BA pilot is enough for you to put up with it then good for you. If you're happy then so am I.
