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LOT Polish Airlines hiring

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LOT Polish Airlines hiring

Old 7th Oct 2019, 19:28
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 49
LOT is a very discrminating place. They discriminate nationals over better born nationals, so usually have no problem with discriminating foreigners, not to even mention non-whites.
As mentioned before, in your circumstances there are more suitable places to be.
Actually your qualifications and place of origin might be very well looked after in JerStory.
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Old 8th Oct 2019, 09:14
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Palmas
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Originally Posted by 7oodaz View Post
hey guys, i have a question ,
now i'm Egyptian Pilot used to work for Egyptair, i'm married to a polish and now i live in Lodz, Poland.
i quit my job in egypt 1 month ago as i had to move with my wife due to family issues, i'm thinking to convert to EASA and try apply for LOT or other airline with a base close to Poland.
i've 4700 hours as FO on the B738
now the question, is it worth the headache of EASA conversion and ATPL exams, ? will i be able to get into any airlines ? like LOT ? , well , let's be realistic, i'm Arab, so would there be any sort of preference for Europeans / non-arabs ? shall i try with the EASA and apply ? or cut it short and go somewhere else in Africa or Asia ?
Thanks Folks,
The fact of the matter is that you will need an EASA license, either now or in the future.

As someone living in Poland who has converted an ICAO to EASA you should apply for the exams as soon as possible. With your hours and ATP license you can self-sponsor and go directly for the exams (1068zł). You can only do this while your rating is still valid. The practical isn't so cheap or easy but you have plenty of time to plan that once the exams are out of the way.

I think there are better options and to be honest as a foreigner in Poland even with EU passport it's a very discriminating place. But to each his own..
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Old 8th Oct 2019, 20:57
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: DUS
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Originally Posted by Michael S View Post
LOT is a very discrminating place. They discriminate nationals over better born nationals, so usually have no problem with discriminating foreigners, not to even mention non-whites.
As mentioned before, in your circumstances there are more suitable places to be.
Actually your qualifications and place of origin might be very well looked after in JerStory.
Come on, my friend got in with another non-Polish guy. There were 4 Polish pilots in that group a none of them passed... And from what Iíve heard, there are pilots from the Baltic States, Belgium, Germany, Italy, UK, Czechia and Slovakia. Doesnít look like they are discriminating anybody...
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Old 8th Oct 2019, 21:27
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kent, UK
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Originally Posted by bumpy737 View Post


Come on, my friend got in with another non-Polish guy. There were 4 Polish pilots in that group a none of them passed... And from what Iíve heard, there are pilots from the Baltic States, Belgium, Germany, Italy, UK, Czechia and Slovakia. Doesnít look like they are discriminating anybody...
Not in recruitment but in day to day life. It may not be totally obvious to the outside observer but it exists. This is known for decades.
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Old 9th Oct 2019, 02:14
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Poland
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Just some info about the sim LOT is using, recently I spoke with one colleague who just finished his training at the flight school I am attending, then did MCC/JOC at LOT then quickly got hired by LOT. He said that the sim is special and without having flown it before... it would be unrealistic to expect to fly it well. So maybe it would be a good idea to rent the sim and do some hours on it (its possible to rent the sim and train from what I heard).

Plus I noticed in this thread some posts of people unhappy with having the option to apply at LOT (discrimination is being claimed).... well in the past it was an airline that accepted only Polish speakers (just like Lufthansa expect you to speak German, KLM expect you to speak Dutch, SAS expect you to speak Scandinavian language, Air France expect you to speak French etc.) now its available to apply for people who do not speak Polish.... and people seem to be unhappy that they got a chance at all to apply. Its a Polish national legacy airline so its pretty obvious they prefer to do like the other national legacy airlines. Its probably opening the base in Budapest that was the reason they started recruiting non Polish speakers (Polish pilots obviously prefer to be based in Poland).

Its strange that people are not writing about "discrimination" when according to posts on this forum other national airlines require people to speak in their language and still even if you speak for example German they will prefer a native speaker at for example Lufthansa (according to posts on this forum).
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Old 9th Oct 2019, 05:50
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
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All those other airlines you have mentioned requiring their relevant languages to be spoken before applying. LOT doesn't so they have absolutely no right on discriminating, however it is not the company, but some of the employees, like captains and senior cabin attendants who are making sure that non-Polish speakers are reminded about who is "calling the shots" on a day to day basis. Toxic culture, imho. Management should really fix this. Then we didn't even mention the salaries they pay - another can of worms.

Last edited by booze; 9th Oct 2019 at 12:23.
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Old 9th Oct 2019, 10:04
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by booze View Post
All those other airlines you have mentioned requiring their relevant languages to be spoken before applying. LOT doesn't so they have absolutely no right on discriminating, however it is not the company, but some of the employees, like captains and senior cabin attendents who are making sure that non-Polish speakers are reminded about who is "calling the shots" on a day to day basis. Toxic culture, imho. Management should really fix this. Then we didn't even mention the salaries they pay - another can of worms.
Well said.
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Old 9th Oct 2019, 10:55
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by booze View Post
All those other airlines you have mentioned requiring their relevant languages to be spoken before applying. LOT doesn't so they have absolutely no right on discriminating, however it is not the company, but some of the employees, like captains and senior cabin attendents who are making sure that non-Polish speakers are reminded about who is "calling the shots" on a day to day basis. Toxic culture, imho. Management should really fix this. Then we didn't even mention the salaries they pay - another can of worms.

Well said booze ! if they should mention before hiring if they want polish speaker, instead hr will promise you anything you want to hear to make you join.

I have no problem with the fact people speak polish in common areas as itís theyr national airline , but in the flight deck I expect that everyone should speak the same language so to be on the same page. Unfortunately most of the briefing are held in polish and generally there is a very unprofessional attitude and bad Crm from old pilots.

Not to mention that as non Polish you ll never have a career here and you will never be upgraded. Confirm toxic environment not worth for what they offer.



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Old 9th Oct 2019, 14:18
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Poland
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@booze: Well you know the salary before you apply also you know the fleet and the bases available. The model is created with Polish cost of living and Polish taxes in mind and not for example Norwegian cost of living and Norwegian taxes. With a base in Poland you can get a better salary only in Ryan Air Sun / Buzz (they do actually pay extremely well (having Poland in mind) for captains at least) and also maybe in Wizz Air (sector pay is some strange way of calculating salary) too but you will not have the same opportunities to fly different aircraft plus possibility to get to long haul with 787. So its up to each person what they think is most important for them. Additionally I find it incorrect to compare salaries with bases in Poland with salaries in bases in some high cost nations, especially if someone desire to live in Poland then how does it help him that in UK he could be paid more if he do not desire to live there?

As for information about employees "discriminating" well I know pilots who just got a job there and instructors who are both FOs and Captains at LOT. No one have heard about things like this happening plus there is from what I heard so to say always a Polish Captain/FO flying from bases in Poland.

Regarding other airlines requiring their relevant language I have seen in discussions people write that they do not require native speakers but still prefer them than proficient speakers of the language who are not native. No one claimed it to be discrimination, but some people instead claimed things like for example British Airways should make some special hard English tests because its "unfair" that all pilots speak English and can apply to "their airline" instead of natives only.
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Old 9th Oct 2019, 15:23
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
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KT1988
Denying the existence of discrimination is either living in wonderland or being on the receiving end of the process.
Discrimination is happening all over Europe. Some places are worse some better but it's always there. It's also not entirely bad thing, you just need to know what to expect. Personally I think LOT slightly above average in that matter but nowhere near to the likes of Lufthansa and AF for example.
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Old 9th Oct 2019, 15:36
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Poland
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@Michael S: I do not deny that what people wrote about has happened, I just told about what I heard from pilots flying for LOT. Obviously I am not yet done with all my licenses (close to the finish now) so I am not yet flying for any airline and have not been at any assessment. I was just telling feedback about the sim that I got from someone who recently got a job at LOT plus telling what I heard from pilots flying there for a long time.

I was just surprised that people were so surprised that a national legacy airline may wish first of all to hire Polish speakers. Since I saw no "outrage" that for example Lufthansa, Air France or KLM prefer native speakers of their respective languages (while all proficient in those languages can apply). Rather the other way around people from UK were unhappy that "everyone" is applying to British Airways since its "their national legacy carrier" so no wonder people in each nation can have the idea that it should be "for us first, since its our national carrier".
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Old 9th Oct 2019, 17:56
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Originally Posted by KT1988 View Post
@Michael S: I do not deny that what people wrote about has happened, I just told about what I heard from pilots flying for LOT. Obviously I am not yet done with all my licenses (close to the finish now) so I am not yet flying for any airline and have not been at any assessment. I was just telling feedback about the sim that I got from someone who recently got a job at LOT plus telling what I heard from pilots flying there for a long time.

I was just surprised that people were so surprised that a national legacy airline may wish first of all to hire Polish speakers. Since I saw no "outrage" that for example Lufthansa, Air France or KLM prefer native speakers of their respective languages (while all proficient in those languages can apply). Rather the other way around people from UK were unhappy that "everyone" is applying to British Airways since its "their national legacy carrier" so no wonder people in each nation can have the idea that it should be "for us first, since its our national carrier".
Wish you a success with your licence. There's unfortunately more unpleasant surprises for you to come.
Anyway LOT is a discrimnatory place, but not more than other national carriers. It may be a nice place to be for a Pole, but it won't be for someone with arab background, as Poland generally is an unpleasant place for people of this origin.
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Old 9th Oct 2019, 18:58
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
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I work a lot with Polish crew, quite a few from LOT themselves and they all tell the same stories about how you don't want to be a foreigner there and even toxic cultures among Polish crew regarding hierarchy and rank. And if you can make more money in Poland working for Ryanair Poland or Wizz... I think you are doing something wrong as national carrier. I am at the moment making more money on a regional jet left seat than I would in the right seat or even a lot of cases in the left seat of a LOT 787. And I am living in a country that is not really much more expensive in terms of living costs...
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Old 10th Oct 2019, 02:06
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Europe
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Being based in a country of lower costs of living is not an excuse for lower T&C-s, imho.

LOT is selling a product, called a flight from A to B which is not cheaper than the same product sold by SAS or Finnair. Why should it's employees have lower wages? Just because the majority of them are based in Eastern Europe? This can't be a factor in an argument defending the pathetic pay they have on offer. In fact there shouldn't be an argument at all.
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Old 10th Oct 2019, 12:10
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by Intrance View Post
I work a lot with Polish crew, quite a few from LOT themselves and they all tell the same stories about how you don't want to be a foreigner there and even toxic cultures among Polish crew regarding hierarchy and rank. And if you can make more money in Poland working for Ryanair Poland or Wizz... I think you are doing something wrong as national carrier. I am at the moment making more money on a regional jet left seat than I would in the right seat or even a lot of cases in the left seat of a LOT 787. And I am living in a country that is not really much more expensive in terms of living costs...

Originally Posted by jollyRoger123 View Post
Well said booze ! if they should mention before hiring if they want polish speaker, instead hr will promise you anything you want to hear to make you join.
I have no problem with the fact people speak polish in common areas as itís theyr national airline , but in the flight deck I expect that everyone should speak the same language so to be on the same page. Unfortunately most of the briefing are held in polish and generally there is a very unprofessional attitude and bad Crm from old pilots.
Not to mention that as non Polish you ll never have a career here and you will never be upgraded. Confirm toxic environment not worth for what they offer.

Hi there guys,

could you please elaborate on that? I already heard these stories many times about polish crews. Is there some examples? It seems LOT has a CRM culture with old captains and old senior cabin crew members that come close to "CRM-hell" in Turkish carriers.

Thanks!
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Old 10th Oct 2019, 12:21
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Palmas
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by White_Eagle View Post
Hi there guys,

could you please elaborate on that? I already heard these stories many times about polish crews. Is there some examples? It seems LOT has a CRM culture with old captains and old senior cabin crew members that come close to "CRM-hell" in Turkish carriers.

Thanks!
https://youtu.be/m2E2Se4021E

I live in Poland as a foreigner and this is a snapshot of so many captains and instructors. Probably similar at LOT, DEFINITELY worse for foreigners.
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Old 10th Oct 2019, 12:31
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Europe
Posts: 166
From my hearsay stories its just pulling rank in obnoxious ways, making the junior staff do the shitty work etc. It can happen in any airline, fair enough, but the things I've heard from Polish colleagues just seem pretty bad. Same goes for stories from the cockpit from foreign pilots. Crews very reluctant to speak English. Some sh*t-talking literally behind your back in Polish.
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Old 12th Oct 2019, 15:34
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Egypt
Age: 29
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Originally Posted by BarryMG View Post
I would expect LOT to be the least welcoming carrier in Poland for foreigners. Plenty of other options there fortunately, usually better than LOT anyway (despite being on the lower end in Europe - I'm talking Ryr, Wizz, Enter etc.). Then there are a couple of executive gigs in Warsaw, and if you dig that kind of work, you could also try your local flight school - Bartolini - they're pretty international, in need of instructors I hear, and definitely could help a bit with the conversion if you agreed to work there (I'm not affiliated with them btw.). If family is more important than money, there's nothing better than working in your town and being home every evening.
thanks Barry for your reply, i've seriously thought about Bartolini but im not sure of their salary, but yes i will definitely try with them after i finish my license conversion .

Originally Posted by Hawker400 View Post
The fact of the matter is that you will need an EASA license, either now or in the future.

As someone living in Poland who has converted an ICAO to EASA you should apply for the exams as soon as possible. With your hours and ATP license you can self-sponsor and go directly for the exams (1068zł). You can only do this while your rating is still valid. The practical isn't so cheap or easy but you have plenty of time to plan that once the exams are out of the way.

I think there are better options and to be honest as a foreigner in Poland even with EU passport it's a very discriminating place. But to each his own..
yes Hawker i already sent my application to the ULC but it's been 1 month and now one sent me back, i will call them or even go to their office, but yes i will definitely finish the conversion asap . thanks .
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Old 12th Oct 2019, 15:37
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Egypt
Age: 29
Posts: 68
and actually i will never be able to fit in a toxic environment again, one reason why i left my previous airline was the toxic environment, "CRM-HELL" . so i think i will get my EASA and try with flight schools or something, thanks guys for your advices .
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Old 29th Oct 2019, 11:08
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In the clouds above
Posts: 260
Agency or Direct

Can anyone advise what the pro's and con's are to going via an agency such as Goose/Sigma or direct with LOT? It appears the agencies are just doing the initial screening and then pass the candidate on to be directly employed. Any experiences or advice welcome
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