Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

Leaving BA for low cost

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Leaving BA for low cost

Old 1st Mar 2019, 15:13
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 3,292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by monquay

1. Can EZY FO's really not park?! seems odd to me!
Correct. PF taxis in after landing, and if that is the FO, then just approaching stand hands control to CM1 (Cpt) who parks, CM2 (FO, or RHS LTC) does the parking checklist and post-flight paperwork. Probably partly due to some of the guidance screens only being configured for the LHS, but mostly probably due to insurance costs given most FOs are pretty inexperienced compared to legacy/charter airlines. Exception to that is remote holding, which is holding not parking.

2. Can FO's call stop? surprised me during the sim check when the skipper took over the thrust levers on TO, hadn't seen that coming.
Also correct. FO calls what they see, captain makes the decision to Stop/Go. Exception being if there is a Trainer on the jump seat then they can also call stop if agreed with the operating captain agrees, or during command assessment at the end of command line training (where you fly with an ordinary FO in the RHS). Again, probably due to FO experience.

3. Is the atmosphere at Easy as relaxed as it seemed during the recruitment day? For the most part it's very relaxed, lots of brilliant people, really enjoyable days out.

4. How often do trips change on the roster? as a general rule I don't mind what I do on a particular day at work but I would like to know when i'm not working!
Roster stability can be hit and miss, but your days off are your days off, and you can refuse to operate into them (ie delayed duty on your last day of work, looks like it'll be landing at 1am, you can decline to work that duty). If you choose to, then you get a WIDO payment, either 1/2 rate or full rate (plus another day off) depending on how long into your day off. Often there'll be lots of roster instability in summer, but we have BALPA-agreed short notice change refusals... where we can reject a change within 48 hours if it's more than 2 hours different.

5. Hows LTN as a base?
Pass, I'm not based there.

6. Any other up to date factors which may influence my decision to take/ not take them up on an offer?
Joining as a DEC SFO, you'd be eligible to start the command process within 6 months of joining, so could realistically be in the LHS within a two years. No seniority to worry about, preferential bidding system for earlys/lates/nightstops/etc. Terms are always improving here, and fatigue management is getting better too, they're years ahead of other airlines on that one.

I'm hearing of several colleagues who left to BA who are regretting it and wanting to come back. Some got SH LGW, some got SH LHR, some got DEP LH. At least one of each wants to come back to EZY... I'd say up to 1/3 are not happy with their move!
LlamaFarmer is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2019, 15:19
  #162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Switzerland
Age: 38
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by monquay

So questions wise,
1. Can EZY FO's really not park?! seems odd to me!
2. Can FO's call stop? surprised me during the sim check when the skipper took over the thrust levers on TO, hadn't seen that coming.
3. Is the atmosphere at Easy as relaxed as it seemed during the recruitment day?
4. How often do trips change on the roster? as a general rule I don't mind what I do on a particular day at work but I would like to know when i'm not working!
5. Hows LTN as a base?
6. Any other up to date factors which may influence my decision to take/ not take and offer
1- Itís SOP for CM1 to park, I think it harkens back to when we had 737ís with the tiller only on the LHS. Current logic is that a lot of the parking aids are LHS only.

2- CM1 has the responsibility to call stop. The skipper is the only one with his hands on the thrust levers. As PM you can bring anything to CM1ís attention but the responsibility lies with CM1

3- I donít know how things are in BA but weíre pretty relaxed in Orangeland.

4- After roster publication your days off are
sacred, they will not change and you have the ability to refuse certain changes to your schedule within 48 hours of your duty. If you opt for fixed roster you can extrapolate your days off for years in the future with the exception of the reserve months (2 a year) where you have flexible roster. Within your working days you can experience disruption but our fatigue management system is not punitive and can be used if youíre not feeling up to the task.

Canít help you with 5 or 6 as I havenít been LTN based or worked at BA. PM me if you have any more questions.

Kind Regards

Polo

LHS LGW
Polorutz is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2019, 15:00
  #163 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by LlamaFarmer
Originally Posted by monquay
1. Can EZY FO's really not park?! seems odd to me!
Correct. PF taxis in after landing, and if that is the FO, then just approaching stand hands control to CM1 (Cpt) who parks, CM2 (FO, or RHS LTC) does the parking checklist and post-flight paperwork. Probably partly due to some of the guidance screens only being configured for the LHS, but mostly probably due to insurance costs given most FOs are pretty inexperienced compared to legacy/charter airlines. Exception to that is remote holding, which is holding not parking.

2. Can FO's call stop? surprised me during the sim check when the skipper took over the thrust levers on TO, hadn't seen that coming.
Also correct. FO calls what they see, captain makes the decision to Stop/Go. Exception being if there is a Trainer on the jump seat then they can also call stop if agreed with the operating captain agrees, or during command assessment at the end of command line training (where you fly with an ordinary FO in the RHS). Again, probably due to FO experience.

3. Is the atmosphere at Easy as relaxed as it seemed during the recruitment day? For the most part it's very relaxed, lots of brilliant people, really enjoyable days out.

4. How often do trips change on the roster? as a general rule I don't mind what I do on a particular day at work but I would like to know when i'm not working!
Roster stability can be hit and miss, but your days off are your days off, and you can refuse to operate into them (ie delayed duty on your last day of work, looks like it'll be landing at 1am, you can decline to work that duty). If you choose to, then you get a WIDO payment, either 1/2 rate or full rate (plus another day off) depending on how long into your day off. Often there'll be lots of roster instability in summer, but we have BALPA-agreed short notice change refusals... where we can reject a change within 48 hours if it's more than 2 hours different.

5. Hows LTN as a base?
Pass, I'm not based there.

6. Any other up to date factors which may influence my decision to take/ not take them up on an offer?
Joining as a DEC SFO, you'd be eligible to start the command process within 6 months of joining, so could realistically be in the LHS within a two years. No seniority to worry about, preferential bidding system for earlys/lates/nightstops/etc. Terms are always improving here, and fatigue management is getting better too, they're years ahead of other airlines on that one.
I'm hearing of several colleagues who left to BA who are regretting it and wanting to come back. Some got SH LGW, some got SH LHR, some got DEP LH. At least one of each wants to come back to EZY... I'd say up to 1/3 are not happy with their move!
Is this applicable (especially 3-6) to every EZY base, i.e. Malpensa? Atmosphere, time to command (realistically), short notice change refusal etc?
BarryMG is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2019, 15:23
  #164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Age: 40
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BarryMG
Is this applicable (especially 3-6) to every EZY base, i.e. Malpensa? Atmosphere, time to command (realistically), short notice change refusal etc?
Time to command is heavily base dependant. Portugal, LGW, LTN: Basically no wait and as soon as you meet the requirements and finish the assessments youíll probably get something within 2 years.

MXP, NCE: A very long time... very!
UberPilot is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2019, 16:01
  #165 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Neither here or there
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sorry for the thread drift... I genuinely thought EZY were the champion of Standard Airbus SOP, allowing the FO to taxi and park. Was it changed recently?. BTW, please could someone tell me exactly which stand parking guidance system is calibrated for the LHS. Looking at the history books of aviation, there was one and I haven't come across it in my 10 year career yet.
CW247 is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2019, 16:08
  #166 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: IRS NAV ONLY
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CW247
BTW, please could someone tell me exactly which stand parking guidance system is calibrated for the LHS. Looking at the history books of aviation, there was one and I haven't come across it in my 10 year career yet.
A lot of airports have them. AGNIS, APIS, etc. Most of the parking have stop lines on the left side only as well.

FlyingStone is online now  
Old 2nd Mar 2019, 18:19
  #167 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: World
Posts: 2,493
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BarryMG
Is this applicable (especially 3-6) to every EZY base, i.e. Malpensa? Atmosphere, time to command (realistically), short notice change refusal etc?
Most rules are the same in Italy, but the contract is different. Roster, pension, part time, salary, rank and many other things are country dependant.
Money wise you are better off on the continent (France, Italy or Germany).
dirk85 is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2019, 18:25
  #168 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CW247
Sorry for the thread drift... I genuinely thought EZY were the champion of Standard Airbus SOP, allowing the FO to taxi and park. Was it changed recently?. BTW, please could someone tell me exactly which stand parking guidance system is calibrated for the LHS. Looking at the history books of aviation, there was one and I haven't come across it in my 10 year career yet.
Who cares who parks the aeroplane, really? Surely the terms and conditions of employment are a lot more important than SOP trivia.



Northern Monkey is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2019, 19:40
  #169 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
AMS stop line and guidance is set up for LHS also. Who cares anyway? Shouldnít base the job on who parks. Also donít think the insurance covers the Fo. Personally I think itís the best short haul job going. People are awesome and fairly relaxed across the network.

Never felt pressured with fuel decisions etc and on the odd occasion I have had to go fatigue in 15 years never questioned once. Preferential bidding for me personally has been superb.
Stone Cold II is online now  
Old 2nd Mar 2019, 20:22
  #170 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RexBanner
FO can sling it down the runway at 130 knots with a twenty knot crosswind but canít taxi it in a straight line at 3 knots and apply a little gentle braking to stop when the guidance tells them to. Makes perfect sense to me (sic). If the guidance is for the LHS only then whats wrong with a transfer of control to park on stand at the limited number of airfields that that situation applies to? Not exactly a hard remedy to a non existent problem really.

I agree itís not really a big deal in the greater scheme of things but its an absolutely pathetic SOP.
Great display of not knowing how to use the (sic) expression

So to you it's not important, but important enough to label "pathetic"?

Maybe leave your house a bit more. There's an abundance of non aviation relqted things to stimulate your mind out there.

cumulustratus is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2019, 20:43
  #171 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RexBanner
FO can sling it down the runway at 130 knots with a twenty knot crosswind but canít taxi it in a straight line at 3 knots and apply a little gentle braking to stop when the guidance tells them to. Makes perfect sense to me (sic). If the guidance is for the LHS only then whats wrong with a transfer of control to park on stand at the limited number of airfields that that situation applies to? Not exactly a hard remedy to a non existent problem really.

I agree itís not really a big deal in the greater scheme of things but its an absolutely pathetic SOP.
I find it amazing this is getting so much air time (and was even asked as question 1 in the first place). How many SOP's do we have to do, while thinking some are good, some are annoying and some seem pointless? Bottom line is we don't own these aircraft, we are paid a pretty decent wage to operate them exactly as our employer (who do own them) wants us to. Very simple really. Personally I don't find it half as annoying being handed control before turning on to stand as I would briefing for a monitored approach on every sector.....

VJW is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2019, 20:48
  #172 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You donít join an airline for its SOPs, Iím pretty sure of that one. If it were the case I doubt anyone would join BA (monitored approaches). That being said, Iím sure most take them their stride when they get there. Just my two cents
Callsign Kilo is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2019, 11:22
  #173 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 3,292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BarryMG
Is this applicable (especially 3-6) to every EZY base, i.e. Malpensa? Atmosphere, time to command (realistically), short notice change refusal etc?
Bases vary.

But time to command should in theory be similar anywhere... if you're willing to move for your command.
Anyone who's an SFO in a small base (NCL etc) , or highly sought-after base (MXP), will be waiting (a very long time) for a captain to leave, or an aircraft to be added, for a command position to be available.
Anyone who is in a big base (LGW, LTN etc) with a high turnover, or is willing to move to one will not have to wait long for command once eligible for a course. Many will come to LGW for command and go onto the transfer list again to get back to where they want. Personal preference.


Short notice refusals are agreements between the company and the unions so will vary from country to country.
LlamaFarmer is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 16:55
  #174 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Neither here or there
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You don’t join an airline for its SOPs, I’m pretty sure of that one.
Speak for yourself. The SOP is what makes the job what it is. I've been at airlines with god awful SOPs where yabba yabba yabba and pointless box ticking and duplication is the order of the day and I've been at airlines with simple, smart SOPs where duplication is next to zero. Guess which one had more incidents? Some SOPs truly wear you down. And in an industry with so much else to wear you down, that matters. You're kidding yourself if you think other wise.
CW247 is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2019, 15:00
  #175 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CW247
Speak for yourself. The SOP is what makes the job what it is. I've been at airlines with god awful SOPs where yabba yabba yabba and pointless box ticking and duplication is the order of the day and I've been at airlines with simple, smart SOPs where duplication is next to zero. Guess which one had more incidents? Some SOPs truly wear you down. And in an industry with so much else to wear you down, that matters. You're kidding yourself if you think other wise.

How complicated aviation SOPs has become!
In my time in Big Airways the pilot flying the sector took over at engine start, after normally being included in the pre flight fuel decisions etc. Personally I also briefed the Senior CC to discuss any inflight problems firstly with the P2 when flying the sector, as good pre command experience.
The whole flight was conducted from the appropriate seat, taxi ,flying to touchdown (prior to the introduction of the MA after the BEA merger) taxi in and parking. Obviously if the parking guidance was set up for the LHS then then handover took place at a convenient time near the Stand. On a P2 sector they also were able to call Stop on takeoff, his/hers hand remained on the thrust levers until V1. That SOP remains today.
The only P2 restrictions I remember were Cat 1 limits, and X wind limit 15/20kts I think, and of course the Capt. always carried out low vis approaches/Autolands. Also on my type, A/P off A/T off.
cessnapete is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2019, 20:35
  #176 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
To revive an old post, in part thanks to the current climate at BA, I'm wondering how many are still like minded to leave. I meet people on the jet bridge regularly who are at their wits end and I'm one of them.

If you're looking to leave, where to?
FACoff is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2019, 00:42
  #177 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Timba Hold
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
TUI, EZY or VS.
MikeAlpha320 is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2019, 01:58
  #178 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: somewhere between Miami and Havana
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
AA, Delta, Clown school...
Buter is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2019, 08:00
  #179 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,445
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Clown School... well that can take you places...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...po-cruise-ship
wiggy is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2019, 09:12
  #180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Callsign Kilo
You donít join an airline for its SOPs, Iím pretty sure of that one. If it were the case I doubt anyone would join BA (monitored approaches). That being said, Iím sure most take them their stride when they get there. Just my two cents
monitored approaches actually make lots of sense, having seen a few go arounds now, much tidier and far less of a shock for the handling pilot to fly. After all, thatís what he has briefed, whereas the landing pilot is expecting to do that.

If I were going to nitpick an SOP that just is a bit odd, itís the Non handling pilot selection of reverse.

I would much prefer to work for an outfit though that has an oddity like that though but trusts me as an experienced professional to pull the thrust levers from RHS or call stop as the heavy in the middle seat. Suppose it comes down to trust and experience.
VinRouge is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.