Leaving BA for low cost
BA will always ignore freezes of any sort (initial, type changes etc) if they are strapped for person power in certain seats..that’s why “Bid for what you want, don”t just bid for what you think you might get” has always been good advice,...coupled with “ never bid for something you really don’t want “
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Interesting..so many people on here actually think it’s a sensible idea to leave a long haul position on the jumbo in a top flag carrier with top benefits and virtually all the modern aircraft at your disposal, to go work next door on a single type of aircraft for the next 30 years, and all of this 8 months before that little unknown detail called brexit.
Good to know this is the sentiment of many!
Good to know this is the sentiment of many!
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For balance, what happens if BA are going through some hard times (and therefore redundancies) at the same time as the Jumbo is winding down? Think there’s going to be junior bods on other fleets getting the chop and retraining going on? I’d suggest not. I don’t think the Jumbo is really the best place to be (and this is coming from someone who has bid for it). Having said that BA has a good track record in that area so it’s unlikely but nonetheless it’s a discussion point.
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Interesting..so many people on here actually think it’s a sensible idea to leave a long haul position on the jumbo in a top flag carrier with top benefits and virtually all the modern aircraft at your disposal, to go work next door on a single type of aircraft for the next 30 years, and all of this 8 months before that little unknown detail called brexit.
Good to know this is the sentiment of many!
Good to know this is the sentiment of many!
I don’t know about you, but you sound like you live to work, I work to live and to have the best lifestyle for my family. I would like to be a dad to my young children in person, every single day, rather than half their childhood through FaceTimE, whilst stuck in another hotel seeing the same things over and over again. I have no interest in commuting or packing a suitcase every time I go to work and BA simply cannot give me the lifestyle I want, I’ve seen the short haul rosters and no thanks, some of the long haul stuff looks pretty good. If I was in a different time of my life young and single, I would probably think about it and give it a go, but my life now is I have others to think about, who are more important than an aircraft type and colour and not being there often isn’t great for family life in my opinion long term, have a few friends families have broken down from being away.
You sound very proud to work for the flag carrier and so you should be, BA is a great brand, I just don’t think that fits into most people priorities. Everyone is different, easyJet is a very very strong airline, you will not find a safer seat when times get tough.
My my priority is to keep a roof over my families head and to be there every day for my children, if I feel tired I go fatigued/unfit and never had any comebacks, new bidding system working well for myself (not everyone mind) and don’t feel as tired as before, in fact feel pretty good this summer so far.
I enjoy going to work most of the time, fly with some truly great people and have a lot of fun during the day.
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Interesting..so many people on here actually think it’s a sensible idea to leave a long haul position on the jumbo in a top flag carrier with top benefits and virtually all the modern aircraft at your disposal, to go work next door on a single type of aircraft for the next 30 years, and all of this 8 months before that little unknown detail called brexit.
Good to know this is the sentiment of many!
Good to know this is the sentiment of many!
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Fascinating discussion, albeit ultimately easyJet vs BA again. As the Count accurately summarises, there are many pros and cons to both.
For me, the idea of reaching the pinnacle of my career in my early 30s, followed by years of flogging between the same runways with nothing to look forward to other than fatigue, roster disruption and eventually part time, was enough to push me off towards BA. I won't reach an easyJet Captain's salary for many years, but at least now I have options, a career path and some fantastic experiences to look forward to.
This is a unique industry where you have to back a horse early on - rocking up at BA in your mid 40's, in my opinion, is too late. Clearly you can only make these decisions based on your own situation at the time - it's certainly not easy and I honestly couldn't say at this point that I've done the right thing. Perhaps it'll be years before I'll even know.
What is obvious though is that the gap is closing between Easy and BA, and I can envisage a day when BA see a real reduction in applications unless they stem the pressure on Ts&Cs. Easy is a great place to work and the financial rewards are huge, if that's what motivates you. Of course long haul is the big differentiator, but remove that, I might have have stayed put.
In summary there's no right answer. Choose what suits you, and live with your decision. Easier said than done of course.
For me, the idea of reaching the pinnacle of my career in my early 30s, followed by years of flogging between the same runways with nothing to look forward to other than fatigue, roster disruption and eventually part time, was enough to push me off towards BA. I won't reach an easyJet Captain's salary for many years, but at least now I have options, a career path and some fantastic experiences to look forward to.
This is a unique industry where you have to back a horse early on - rocking up at BA in your mid 40's, in my opinion, is too late. Clearly you can only make these decisions based on your own situation at the time - it's certainly not easy and I honestly couldn't say at this point that I've done the right thing. Perhaps it'll be years before I'll even know.
What is obvious though is that the gap is closing between Easy and BA, and I can envisage a day when BA see a real reduction in applications unless they stem the pressure on Ts&Cs. Easy is a great place to work and the financial rewards are huge, if that's what motivates you. Of course long haul is the big differentiator, but remove that, I might have have stayed put.
In summary there's no right answer. Choose what suits you, and live with your decision. Easier said than done of course.
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Was chatting to someone connected to Easy training a few weeks ago. Commented that Easy have an issue with quite a few people who have been with the firm for about 10-15 years, have had a fairly early command. These guys/gals really hate the company and the industry purely because they are trapped by the money. All options either require a substantial pay cut or a move to an unpleasant part of the world at a time when they are having young families. Recipe for unhappiness, which was fairly predictable.
This is a unique industry where you have to back a horse early on - rocking up at BA in your mid 40's, in my opinion, is too late.
Would I try to talk someone else into doing the same now? Probably not, as their career path will be different. Everyone must assess and make their own decision but I just wanted to point out that it worked for me.
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Apologies for slight thread drift....Rex refers to Balpa hopefully drawing a line in the sand should BA come after PRIAM(Cassandra)....I seem to recall all the old hands saying the same thing about Bidline! 
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Bex, the fact of the matter is everyone said precisely that about bidline too.
I have been struggling to comprehend for a few years now, why people still want to leave decent airlines to come to BA. The downward trend in terms and conditions has been accelerating all the time, and with its current inertia, we will be significantly worse than the low cost airlines before we halt the trend.
I have been struggling to comprehend for a few years now, why people still want to leave decent airlines to come to BA. The downward trend in terms and conditions has been accelerating all the time, and with its current inertia, we will be significantly worse than the low cost airlines before we halt the trend.
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The reality is that it is swings and roundabouts.
When I left easyJet in 2011 it was a toxic atmosphere in which to work. An external management consultancy had completed a survey of employees and had used exactly that word, "toxic", in it's description of relations between front line staff and management. I remember how anti-company the majority of people I flew with were. No discretion, no favours, even no single engine taxi or reduced flap landings for some. I remember one captain starting the APU at 3000 feet because "it was a short taxi in". People were desperate to leave and many did. In the years since under the McCall regime, the airline seems to have become a much better place to work with excellent financial rewards on offer and better (if not perfect) rostering. The toxicity seems, to a large degree, to have been banished.
Meanwhile at BA you could argue over the same period that we have seen a general slide towards dissatisfaction amongst the pilot workforce. Bidline is soon to be history, we have less leave than we used to have, 34 pay points instead of 24, huge and rising profits and fairly poor bonuses compared to easyJet. The pilot only pseudo share plan is a very poor relation to the excellent SAYE and BAYE share schemes at easyJet.
There will come a tipping point soon though, as others have identified, where the pendulum will have swung too far and things will necessarily start to move in the opposite direction. Already BA do not have it as good as they used to when it comes to recruitment. I can't imagine, in 2011, anyone turning down the offer of a job with BA. But apparently, plenty do these days. Even for those who accept, some have changed their minds during their notice period. It has become a tortuous decision for some and particularly around the issue of pay. easyJet is an extremely profitable place to work at the moment and people have made significant sums of money from share schemes in addition to the much better command salary on offer when compared to an early command at BA.
Personally I still think BA is a pretty good job. My wife and I have travelled the world in Club at a tiny fraction of the commercial cost, I love the long haul job (but also love the fact I can switch back to short hall if the situation should dictate it) and the training and the people are absolutely fantastic for the most part. I would describe it as generally more "chilled out" than easyJet in terms of the day to day flying.
Bottom line, in another 7 years who is to say where we will be and which will be a better employer. Will the pendulum have swung again? Probably, I would suggest. I don't envy those trying to make the decision today as it is doubtless more complicated than when I made mine. All I would say is that whatever option you choose will not be a disaster. Think long and hard, and then don't look back.
When I left easyJet in 2011 it was a toxic atmosphere in which to work. An external management consultancy had completed a survey of employees and had used exactly that word, "toxic", in it's description of relations between front line staff and management. I remember how anti-company the majority of people I flew with were. No discretion, no favours, even no single engine taxi or reduced flap landings for some. I remember one captain starting the APU at 3000 feet because "it was a short taxi in". People were desperate to leave and many did. In the years since under the McCall regime, the airline seems to have become a much better place to work with excellent financial rewards on offer and better (if not perfect) rostering. The toxicity seems, to a large degree, to have been banished.
Meanwhile at BA you could argue over the same period that we have seen a general slide towards dissatisfaction amongst the pilot workforce. Bidline is soon to be history, we have less leave than we used to have, 34 pay points instead of 24, huge and rising profits and fairly poor bonuses compared to easyJet. The pilot only pseudo share plan is a very poor relation to the excellent SAYE and BAYE share schemes at easyJet.
There will come a tipping point soon though, as others have identified, where the pendulum will have swung too far and things will necessarily start to move in the opposite direction. Already BA do not have it as good as they used to when it comes to recruitment. I can't imagine, in 2011, anyone turning down the offer of a job with BA. But apparently, plenty do these days. Even for those who accept, some have changed their minds during their notice period. It has become a tortuous decision for some and particularly around the issue of pay. easyJet is an extremely profitable place to work at the moment and people have made significant sums of money from share schemes in addition to the much better command salary on offer when compared to an early command at BA.
Personally I still think BA is a pretty good job. My wife and I have travelled the world in Club at a tiny fraction of the commercial cost, I love the long haul job (but also love the fact I can switch back to short hall if the situation should dictate it) and the training and the people are absolutely fantastic for the most part. I would describe it as generally more "chilled out" than easyJet in terms of the day to day flying.
Bottom line, in another 7 years who is to say where we will be and which will be a better employer. Will the pendulum have swung again? Probably, I would suggest. I don't envy those trying to make the decision today as it is doubtless more complicated than when I made mine. All I would say is that whatever option you choose will not be a disaster. Think long and hard, and then don't look back.
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BA gives you choices that Easyjet doesn't (aside from regional basing) if you are of a certain age. I agree with pretty much with NM's comments but I sense a rise in the discontent within Easyjet too in the post McCall era - possibly a little more than the usual summer mayhem and driven by continual inability to get establishment/rostering sums right. Then again you could say that of about any operator these days. EasyJet has become one of the better shows in town mainly due to the drive and determination of its employees and their representatives coupled with management team who started listening a bit more a few years ago.
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[QUOTE=737 Jockey;10187635]
Nothing much I feel has changed since Johan has taken the reigns. On the face of it he seems a nice chap, he is very much into social media and does his communication through our Facebook workplace thing which I'm not sure many employees are on. Lots of selfies he likes to do with people out and about. I don't really use it so I don't hear from him. As for the henchman/ladies below Johan everything is quiet (at the min!) so I guess as long as no one wants to exert some authority and challenge for the throne game of thrones style we are happy with the status quo Caroyln has left in the air.
Interesting point...
Any easy Pilots care to comment on how things are under the new management?
[/QUOTEAny easy Pilots care to comment on how things are under the new management?
Nothing much I feel has changed since Johan has taken the reigns. On the face of it he seems a nice chap, he is very much into social media and does his communication through our Facebook workplace thing which I'm not sure many employees are on. Lots of selfies he likes to do with people out and about. I don't really use it so I don't hear from him. As for the henchman/ladies below Johan everything is quiet (at the min!) so I guess as long as no one wants to exert some authority and challenge for the throne game of thrones style we are happy with the status quo Caroyln has left in the air.
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I guess it depends on where you are based as well.
In my base we don't have access to FB workplace, meaning that nobody at all has any clue about what happens on management level within the company - however, we also don't get pestered with all sort of useless info that needs to be selected for relevance ect
One very good thing I noticed is the selection of new managers. We had some managers exchanged on country and base levels, and Ezy seem to have chosen people with actual people skills and manager skills for these roles. This is new!!
In my base we don't have access to FB workplace, meaning that nobody at all has any clue about what happens on management level within the company - however, we also don't get pestered with all sort of useless info that needs to be selected for relevance ect
One very good thing I noticed is the selection of new managers. We had some managers exchanged on country and base levels, and Ezy seem to have chosen people with actual people skills and manager skills for these roles. This is new!!
