Leaving BA for low cost
I left a major legacy carrier during tough times, contract getting screwed down, seniority not moving anywhere and lots of time away from home, having said that I left due to personal issues and needing to move to the other side of the world due to a family situation. Joined a LCC and got a command in 9 months and was home every night whilst earning more than my spot at the legacy carrier.... good times ;-) Fast forward 10 years and I am still in the Left Seat with said LCC, all of my mates at the legacy carrier also now have commands or very senior FO spots in longhaul and have good control over their lifestyles, they are earning more than me and their conditions I.e pension etc are out of my league. Now the LCC has gone backwards in terms of contract, in this respect all airlines are the same constantly screwing down terms, the roster now comprises 4 and 5 day trips as this is ‘more efficient’ for the company, not a day goes by that I wish I could have stayed with the Legacy carrier, at least there you get some reward for your years of service, at the LCC I am likely to lose my bid in any given month to a 1 day Captain as it is totally random, no one is happy and I can tell you multiple 4 sector domestic days for 10 years is more fatiguing than anything I did at the Legacy carrier. As stated above, be very careful about traded short term angst against your long term prospects, what I would give now just to be able to bid to a long haul fleet for a few years, BA may be a bit hard at times but in terms of fleet choice, work choice and career opportunities you probably won’t beat it.
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It’s all about how your body can cope with Jet Lag and Red eyes combined.
If you find your a quick to recover and a natural night lark LH is great.
If your an Early Bird or struggle to get over jet lag LCC is for you.
At the end if the day money is very close. Yes at Legacy you’ll earn more eventually but the money you earn in the short term can be worth more with compounding, or debt paydown.
If you find your a quick to recover and a natural night lark LH is great.
If your an Early Bird or struggle to get over jet lag LCC is for you.
At the end if the day money is very close. Yes at Legacy you’ll earn more eventually but the money you earn in the short term can be worth more with compounding, or debt paydown.
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There is merit to waiting your time, but I fear Ollie maybe missing the changes that have occurred over the past ten years where his friends have gained a good lifestyle. For example, PP34.. an extra ten years to get to the top of the tree now, so many joining in their thirties will enjoy only a couple of years. This coupled with the loss of NAPS to an industry competitive pension further reduces the significant benefits of a long term BA career.
Other things that must be considered (especially short haul) is the ‘Heathrow factor!’ Slot delays, 25 minute taxi times, holding inbound, waiting for stands, Aircraft and terminal swapping, 2 hour waits between flights in Pret. When you add these together over a 12 month period these add up to 10’s days of lost time ( or effective earnings ). You can also factor reserve periods into this. Considerable loss of earnings and stability can occur during your three week period of reserve. If you get unlucky and sit at the bottom of a fleet you will be enjoying plenty of reserve, regardless of weekend points. Compounded since the loss of fixed flight pay which was in existence when Ollie’s mates joined. Also, long haul are working hard, loss of back to backs due EASA makes life more difficult. Busy long haul fleets can often see five or more trips with just two days off in between. Being junior on certain fleets can be brutal, with reserve, weekend work and lack of roster control.
If you hit a sweet spot during a recruitment bulge and go in as a DEP to a long haul fleet, with 1 or 200 coming in under you on seniority, you may end up with a fairly comfortable lifestyle. However, the desire of management is to reduce lay over lengths ( short haul already enjoy many 12-14 nightstops ), address the hotel budget ( not a good thing when we spend our lives in them ). Who knows what else is to come??
BA is certainly still a decent career in the UK, but it has changed beyond recognition and our new union has a huge battle on their hands. To get to a point where you can control your roster ( tanks to JSS) and enjoy the ‘big bucks’ (PP34) is far longer than previous! Regional based flying with front loaded earnings certainly competes now, hence the frustrations of the many at BA and this thread. You certainly accept less career stability (well at the moment), but you are potentially going to enjoy a far greater work life balance ( something we take for granted whilst we young and have our health). With that said, if you can make BA work, on PP34... You may just earn more on a payslip over thirty years.
Other things that must be considered (especially short haul) is the ‘Heathrow factor!’ Slot delays, 25 minute taxi times, holding inbound, waiting for stands, Aircraft and terminal swapping, 2 hour waits between flights in Pret. When you add these together over a 12 month period these add up to 10’s days of lost time ( or effective earnings ). You can also factor reserve periods into this. Considerable loss of earnings and stability can occur during your three week period of reserve. If you get unlucky and sit at the bottom of a fleet you will be enjoying plenty of reserve, regardless of weekend points. Compounded since the loss of fixed flight pay which was in existence when Ollie’s mates joined. Also, long haul are working hard, loss of back to backs due EASA makes life more difficult. Busy long haul fleets can often see five or more trips with just two days off in between. Being junior on certain fleets can be brutal, with reserve, weekend work and lack of roster control.
If you hit a sweet spot during a recruitment bulge and go in as a DEP to a long haul fleet, with 1 or 200 coming in under you on seniority, you may end up with a fairly comfortable lifestyle. However, the desire of management is to reduce lay over lengths ( short haul already enjoy many 12-14 nightstops ), address the hotel budget ( not a good thing when we spend our lives in them ). Who knows what else is to come??
BA is certainly still a decent career in the UK, but it has changed beyond recognition and our new union has a huge battle on their hands. To get to a point where you can control your roster ( tanks to JSS) and enjoy the ‘big bucks’ (PP34) is far longer than previous! Regional based flying with front loaded earnings certainly competes now, hence the frustrations of the many at BA and this thread. You certainly accept less career stability (well at the moment), but you are potentially going to enjoy a far greater work life balance ( something we take for granted whilst we young and have our health). With that said, if you can make BA work, on PP34... You may just earn more on a payslip over thirty years.
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This whole thread, starting from the title, is total nonsense.
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Funny how people look at things. BA offering a £59k basic to join and easy offered £104k. The roles are very different yes but my family don’t care which seat I sit on. I suggest you don’t look at the BA pay scales as well. The fact it takes 14 years on BA SH lgw to make the basic easy paid me the day I joined...... speaks volumes and it’s why threads like this crop up.
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VJW I get your sentiments but to be fair you can’t really compare a DEC easyJet position to a DEP one at BA financially. It’s fairly obvious that one is going to come out way ahead of the other and different qualifications/experience are required for each, hence it’s apples and oranges, particularly as one who is in a position to apply for Direct Entry Captain already has their command and a certain financial status and, by virtue of their decision to apply to apply for a BA DEP position, is presumably taking a longer term view of things than the immediacy of the first payslip.
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Spot on, VJW, I'm in exactly the same position as yourself. I'm left seat easy now instead of joining BA longhaul, I work hard and I get paid very well. It's all about expectation, the aviation jobs out there that are a cushy number these days are as rare as rocking horse sh*t. Most of the stress comes from perception and mindset, you just have to be happy with what you've signed on the dotted line for, like how many crew do we know that whinge their tits off when they get called from standby? A standby duty isn't a right to stay at home, you're being called for a duty you should have potentially been doing anyway, if you have the mindset that if you spend it at home it's a bonus then you'll be in a far better place mentally and more relaxed. Being stressed is more fatiguing than being relaxed, if your constantly stressing about a long week ahead then it'll affect you more. I didn't get home till 3am this morning and I have another long night ahead but I'm comfortable with it. I don't feel half as tired as I would if I was whining about it all the time. Pilots are the most highly strung fraternity I've ever known, take a chill pill guys.
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That’s the point though, if you relax and don’t get stressed about the inevitable slots and delays then perfectly fine! If I’ve got a block of earlier then I go to bed at 8 the Night before and then I’m not tired and actually enjoy the job!
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yep. Lie ins too after a long trip. It’s about management and fairness. I bring in the coin. She manages the household/kids. I’m amazed at the number of people who seem to have partners that don’t get the requirements of the job, seeming to think that staff travel, cheap luxury holidays and being in the top 3% of Uk household earnings happens support free from the other side of the relationship. If she is earning mega wonga too, why wouldn’t you get an au pair?
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Well I'm well into my second decade of flying and being flogged and to be honest my health is fine. I just can't get too stressed about the day to day operation because it just isn't worth it. I've heard my crew moan and whinge over the years about slot delays, tech problems, company decisions etc etc but at the end of the day you won't whinge the issues away so there's no point in letting it get to you. I take every day as it comes and just don't get excitable about much and I have to say my time at work is very relaxed even if it's going to rat sh!t because it's completely out of my hands. Yesterday we were suffering from slot delays and my first officer was whinging the whole day about it, now that was tiresome and fatuiging.
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Well I'm well into my second decade of flying and being flogged and to be honest my health is fine. I just can't get too stressed about the day to day operation because it just isn't worth it. I've heard my crew moan and whinge over the years about slot delays, tech problems, company decisions etc etc but at the end of the day you won't whinge the issues away so there's no point in letting it get to you. I take every day as it comes and just don't get excitable about much and I have to say my time at work is very relaxed even if it's going to rat sh!t because it's completely out of my hands. Yesterday we were suffering from slot delays and my first officer was whinging the whole day about it, now that was tiresome and fatuiging.
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I don't want to come over too harsh but if your a commuter (I believe you are) your already on the back foot, and unlike a couple of recent posters - your keep letting your head be full of negativity. As my old DFO once said when i complained to him that how come Nigel's (not BA) get £xxx for working one minute into a day off and I got jack all for working 12 hours on a day off - his reply was "go be a Pilot" - So.....
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Also due to the preferential bidding I tend to only do early flights and two sector days. In general I leave home between 4 and 5am and am back home around 1pm. In my book that is far from being flogged to death. Yes, I do the occasional 4 sector day but on average not more then two per month. In my previous company I would normally fly close to 900 hours a year and most of these were Canaries, Turkey, Cyprus or Egypt so long days out.
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Institute for Fiscal Studies website puts you and your partner in the top 1% of UK households, never mind 3%. You may not feel well off, but you certainly are. Obviously it depends how much of that income is disposable and what choices you’ve made.
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CEJM You have been with EZY for 18 months. You know nothing about the long term effects. If you were a member of BALPA you would be aware of the alarming statistics.
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Over 15 years in and yet to suffer burnout. Yes I am tired, but I am not fatigued. When it becomes too much I just call in fatigued.
Yes on earlies I go to bed at 8pm and I have school age children.
Yes on earlies I go to bed at 8pm and I have school age children.
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Well I'm well into my second decade of flying and being flogged and to be honest my health is fine. I just can't get too stressed about the day to day operation because it just isn't worth it. I've heard my crew moan and whinge over the years about slot delays, tech problems, company decisions etc etc but at the end of the day you won't whinge the issues away so there's no point in letting it get to you. I take every day as it comes and just don't get excitable about much and I have to say my time at work is very relaxed even if it's going to rat sh!t because it's completely out of my hands. Yesterday we were suffering from slot delays and my first officer was whinging the whole day about it, now that was tiresome and fatuiging.
