Leaving BA for low cost
Join Date: Jan 2012
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TUI, with regional basing over BA.......hell yes. My last duty I left home at 14:00 got stuck on the M4 and arrived for work at 15:45. So that was half an hours hold up but still ok as report was 16:00. Check in, flight delayed to 18:00 because the aircraft was late inbound. Pick up a ATC slot and eventually depart at 19:00 for a quick there and back. Again a slot and get back to my car gone midnight. M4 road works and eventually arrive home at 1:30. 11:30 door to door to go to the south of France and back. FFS really. The best bit is I can do it again for another 4 days before having 2 off. Oh that and it’s only worth 4:30 credit and £40 in flight pay.
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Having backed the wrong horse early on in my career, being ex-Monarch, I considered easyjet amongst others when things went south but BA was of no interest as there was no way I could pay the mortgage. The thought of commuting to LHR was also a total turn-off .
Join Date: Apr 2018
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As always it’s horses for courses. So many factors determine your lifestyle at BA. Do you commute? PP24 or PP34? LH or SH? Which fleet? Age? Family circumstances? Seniority? The answer as to whether you stay or go will be different for everyone at every point on the seniority list for different reasons and nobody is right or wrong.
If you want to be home every night forever then BA is not for you. If you can’t soak up the frustrations of operating out of LHR then I’d avoid it like the plague. For a career in short haul then EZY at a regional base probably beats BA - even at LGW. If you get a command after a few years then the money is certainly better at EZY. But if your goal is to travel the world and spend time in places you would probably never see on your holidays then I can’t think of anywhere else in the UK that can offer the variety than BA.
It’s not a perfect place to work but you can delete those management emails without having to read them and if you never visit Yammer then you’d find life is pretty good because none of the negativity gets through to you! The variety and choice is unmatched but it goes without saying it’s not going to be everyone’s cup of tea. Look after number 1. Too many people are at BA because it impresses the neighbours. They’re often the unhappiest of all.
If you want to be home every night forever then BA is not for you. If you can’t soak up the frustrations of operating out of LHR then I’d avoid it like the plague. For a career in short haul then EZY at a regional base probably beats BA - even at LGW. If you get a command after a few years then the money is certainly better at EZY. But if your goal is to travel the world and spend time in places you would probably never see on your holidays then I can’t think of anywhere else in the UK that can offer the variety than BA.
It’s not a perfect place to work but you can delete those management emails without having to read them and if you never visit Yammer then you’d find life is pretty good because none of the negativity gets through to you! The variety and choice is unmatched but it goes without saying it’s not going to be everyone’s cup of tea. Look after number 1. Too many people are at BA because it impresses the neighbours. They’re often the unhappiest of all.
Join Date: Jul 2016
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Having recently joined from EZY I am genuinely surprised at the lack of rostering agreements, fatigue management system and the attitude towards fatigue in general at the company. Looking at several rosters guys/girls are working 6 on 1 off 6 on in certain cases (perhaps overtime) but Im sure a majority being forced to do it in order to get even the slightest bit of control later on in the month. 5/4/5/3 or the FRV pattern back at easy was FAR less fatiguing and the real lack of days off is crazy. Yes- you work fewer block hours, but how is sitting in the pilots bar for 2 hours waiting for an aircraft any less fatiguing? Duty hours are through the roof and the inefficiency of the system really is astonishing. FR are working 5/4 and yet BA see it fit that you can work 7 on 1 off? I appreciate it allows for overtime and moving trips around but when there is so much in overtime days are closed anyway! Grass isn't always greener...!
Join Date: Jul 2017
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Interesting post mikealpha320. My main reasons for applying to BA were the lifestyle benefits - to have more control of what days I have off, control over the type and timing of work I do, and a more sustainable career in short haul. Once you've gained a bit of seniority say a year or 2 in the rhs is this possible or is short haul at BA simply worse than at EZY now, even if you're relatively senior. Thoughts from anyone who has gone EZY to BA in the last few years would be much appreciated.
Join Date: Apr 2017
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Hi. I didn't join from Easyjet and left BA for Ryanair but if the above quote is what you expect to find in a job then you've come to the absolute worst place.
Join Date: Apr 2017
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Oh and another thing; It's not 'horses for courses' or anything along that vein. Unless of course you're a horse with 25plus years of seniority, a crystalized NAPS pension and at the top of a 24 point payscale... None of which are on offer, to be clear.
... My main reasons for applying to BA were the lifestyle benefits - to have more control of what days I have off, control over the type and timing of work I do, and a more sustainable career in short haul. Once you've gained a bit of seniority say a year or 2 in the rhs is this possible or is short haul at BA simply worse than at EZY now, even if you're relatively senior.
A lot of what is written here reminds me of Churchill’s quote about democracy being the worst type of governance......apart from from all the rest.
B.A does have its issues, as do many other airlines. What is for sure, is the pilot job has changed over 50/40/30/20/10 years...and not for the better.
‘Who is to blame? I’m sure we could come up with a list of suspects. What are we going to do about it collectively? Good question. I’ll vote for anyone that has an answer.
B.A does have its issues, as do many other airlines. What is for sure, is the pilot job has changed over 50/40/30/20/10 years...and not for the better.
‘Who is to blame? I’m sure we could come up with a list of suspects. What are we going to do about it collectively? Good question. I’ll vote for anyone that has an answer.
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Interesting post mikealpha320. My main reasons for applying to BA were the lifestyle benefits - to have more control of what days I have off, control over the type and timing of work I do, and a more sustainable career in short haul. Once you've gained a bit of seniority say a year or 2 in the rhs is this possible or is short haul at BA simply worse than at EZY now, even if you're relatively senior. Thoughts from anyone who has gone EZY to BA in the last few years would be much appreciated.
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Every weekend, what’s your secret? Most people I know with 10 years of seniority still work most weekends, not out of choice!
Join Date: May 2004
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I guess 4 years in as a SH F/O will see you, ahem, “fly” up the list and gain some control fairly quickly. 10 years seniority on a popular LH fleet will see you just out of the bottom 3rd, maybe even the lofty heights of halfway! Only the 74) will see you top half by then.
On the ezy/BA theme, I think the big orange finally reached a point where rosters were so ridiculous they had to improve - it was certainly bonkers when I was there. If the rumours of new improved fixed roster patterns are true then we may see things develop to the point Ba actually start providing TR’d and experienced Captains to ezy, not the other way round. Which would be a turn up for the books. In reality I think BA are just a bit behind ezy on the cycle of stupid rostering and things will have to improve* as some point.
As things stand, BA lose very few pilots, although I know of one junior P1 who has quit for pastures new recently. Until that changes or we actually grow a pair as a collective and tell BA to poke off things will stay as they are. A moderately experienced pilot can have a lgw s/h command in BA within a couple of years of joining, I reckon that is as quick as it happens anywhere in Europe? Which says it all really. BA is no longer the holy grail, it’s just another airline job.
*I heard anecdotally that an ezy accountant asked why historically they lost so many pilots to BA. “Because our guys are so well trained” came the response.....”we could save a lot more if we didn’t train them so well” was said accountant’s retort - so when I say improve......
On the ezy/BA theme, I think the big orange finally reached a point where rosters were so ridiculous they had to improve - it was certainly bonkers when I was there. If the rumours of new improved fixed roster patterns are true then we may see things develop to the point Ba actually start providing TR’d and experienced Captains to ezy, not the other way round. Which would be a turn up for the books. In reality I think BA are just a bit behind ezy on the cycle of stupid rostering and things will have to improve* as some point.
As things stand, BA lose very few pilots, although I know of one junior P1 who has quit for pastures new recently. Until that changes or we actually grow a pair as a collective and tell BA to poke off things will stay as they are. A moderately experienced pilot can have a lgw s/h command in BA within a couple of years of joining, I reckon that is as quick as it happens anywhere in Europe? Which says it all really. BA is no longer the holy grail, it’s just another airline job.
*I heard anecdotally that an ezy accountant asked why historically they lost so many pilots to BA. “Because our guys are so well trained” came the response.....”we could save a lot more if we didn’t train them so well” was said accountant’s retort - so when I say improve......
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Having recently joined from EZY I am genuinely surprised at the lack of rostering agreements, fatigue management system and the attitude towards fatigue in general at the company. Looking at several rosters guys/girls are working 6 on 1 off 6 on in certain cases (perhaps overtime) but Im sure a majority being forced to do it in order to get even the slightest bit of control later on in the month. 5/4/5/3 or the FRV pattern back at easy was FAR less fatiguing and the real lack of days off is crazy. Yes- you work fewer block hours, but how is sitting in the pilots bar for 2 hours waiting for an aircraft any less fatiguing? Duty hours are through the roof and the inefficiency of the system really is astonishing. FR are working 5/4 and yet BA see it fit that you can work 7 on 1 off? I appreciate it allows for overtime and moving trips around but when there is so much in overtime days are closed anyway! Grass isn't always greener...!
One of the FRM requirements of EASA FTL asks just that. question what happens when crew members flying on days off for overtime etc and what processes are in place by the AOC to manage it - The Airlines answer (not just BA) is hum - the FTL limits. With the extended rest recovery periods of EASA FTL you can work crews extremely hard if you so wish (just need to look around Europe to see this especially with a weak regulator)
From what i've seen at UK AOC's most are behaving responsibly particularly if BALPA are keeping them on their toes. Not sure about BA though wasn't there a famous quote "There is no fatigue at BA"
Join Date: Jul 2016
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Apparently making cap so high that everyone has to work most waking hours but letting us try to choose how we do it means that its not fatiguing? Add in forcing trips on people- a very poorly organised operation in and out of LHR and the attitude that BA is still the best and there is nowhere else to go and you've got the perfect recipe for this situation. Not to mention forcing captains into RHS so they don't have to pay FO's for the overworked hours in the working agreement. When will BALPA get out of the companies pocket and actually do something?
