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Leaving BA for low cost

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Leaving BA for low cost

Old 24th Jul 2018, 17:50
  #141 (permalink)  
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You need to speak to the easyJet recruitment team. We are desperate for pilots and any with chunky prior experience would be a godsend for the training department. There’s more expansion coming and I strongly suspect eve more Captains are going to want part time so the pressure to upgrade eligible FOs will be there even if expansion stopped. The below par FO early contracts are a silly hangover from a few years ago when we were the on,y show in town other than Ryanair. Although I know of several FOs who refuse to budge from 75% to 100% because they enjoy the part time lifestyle.


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Old 24th Jul 2018, 19:59
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wee Weasley Welshman View Post
You need to speak to the easyJet recruitment team. We are desperate for pilots and any with chunky prior experience would be a godsend for the training department. Thereís more expansion coming and I strongly suspect eve more Captains are going to want part time so the pressure to upgrade eligible FOs will be there even if expansion stopped. The below par FO early contracts are a silly hangover from a few years ago when we were the on,y show in town other than Ryanair. Although I know of several FOs who refuse to budge from 75% to 100% because they enjoy the part time lifestyle.


WWW
Will they consider very experienced heavy experienced military guys straight into LHS?
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 20:23
  #143 (permalink)  
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Not without significant LHS civil experience.
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 10:38
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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Could an EZ pilot familiar with the Berlin operation get in touch by pm please?
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 18:05
  #145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
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The latest DEP for the uk says £120k made up of basic...., sector and bonus opportunity. How does this actually break down? What’s the pension? LOL, health care? Or is it like RYR where the give you an allowance to buy this yourself. Is there anyone in recruitment who you can talk to before applying to decide if it’s right for you and your family?
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 21:47
  #146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK
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Basic £104,500
Sector pay (average for me) £14,000 per year
Annual loyalty bonus after 2 years is 5%, increasing to 10% after 5 years then 15% after 10 years.

7% company pension contributions, 1.3 x salary LOL. LOL can be increased but by paying a monthly premium. No healthcare provided.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 01:25
  #147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United Kingdom
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Dct_Mopas - The UK contracts are not guaranteed to be SFO contracts, I know it has been given some in 2017, but generally the direct entry FO's for UK contract start as Second Officer, 2 years as First Officer before becoming SFO.
I know prior to 2017 and part of 2017 it was like this, I don't know how 2018 looks, but I believe that is the general progression for FO's. The caveat is that you can get your command before becoming SFO.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 01:50
  #148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United Kingdom
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As for the debate BA vs LoCo's, I think it depends what you want in life and what stage you are at in life.
BA, sure you can fly many different aircraft etc., but in the end after a while it's not the time you spend at work that creates the greatest value you in your life, it's the time you spend with loved ones and family. Finding the balance between work and lifestyle is the main thing.
I think many join BA based on old thoughts of the prestige of flying for a flag carrier, however all the great advantages of working for flag carriers are slowly disappearing.
If you join BA first SH, you are living from a suitcase, from hotel to hotel. You are just living to work the next day. Sure if you are young and have no commitments, children / family etc. you probably don't mind this lifestyle. However having lived the hotel life over 10 years myself, I can assure you there is only so much you can take before it becomes just another day to get trough.

Some say you should embrace the lifestyle, and discover new parts of the world, sure sounds nice, but I rather discover new parts of the world with loved ones, than alone - as the experience becomes hollow and empty not to have someone to share the memories with.

Similar you than go to long haul, destinations all over the world, sure excitement in the start, stopover in exotic countries, enjoying night life in your downtime, again it's single persons lifestyle. You hardly ever home, if you have children you will miss 90% of the things in their lives, if you are married or in a relationship, how do you expect to maintain this when you are constantly away?

I have a friend working Long Haul, he has dated a few Cabin Crew, and I told him he should find someone not in aviation to settle down with, but he explains how can he find someone, when he is always away.
Having friends, and having met loads of aircrews in many of my travels around the world, I "know the lifestyle" - and for most it ends in multiple divorces and little or not much contact with your own children.

Now some people in their 20s and early 30's, might not yet appreciate this aspect in life, and are still blinded by the chance to fly the A380 or Dreamliner.

However for me personally after commuting for many years by flight abroad, when I landed my first job back in the UK, it was the biggest life changer ever in my life. When I everyday finished duty and knew that in not long time I would be home with my loved ones, in my own bed, and could actually use my off time to something useful and meaningful instead of just sitting in a hotel room or apartment and wasting time, waiting for time until I could get home. It would go days, some time weeks being away, just to get home for 2 days before had to leave again.

That feeling to be home everyday is worth more than all the money in the world. I have been offered work trough friends in the far east where I could make 4 - 5 times what I make now, and probably work half of what I am working now, but considering the massive commute and time away, and all what I would miss I would never consider doing this.

In the end it all comes down to what you value most in your own life, it's a personal choice.
When old people are asked on question, what in life do you wish you had done more, spent more time doing, the ONE ANSWER, NEVER given, is "I wish I had spent more time at work"

That's the reason I would NEVER work for BA, it's just not for me and what I value in life. But thank god we are not all the same, because I like to go on holiday with my family to those destinations that Long Haul pilots fly, but I want to go there to enjoy with family and friends, and not sit there alone staring at the sun (and any temptations that might come my way because I am feeling lonely) And what many forget, is that their partner/wife might also be feeling lonely at home, so who knows who does what. ( based on true stories told by few long haul pilots I know)
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 02:28
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
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REXBANNER - Your observation of Norwegian is very wrong, they just posted large profits in their 2.nd financial quarter, where they was expected to make losses. So not sure where you getting all misinformation from, furthermore if going so bad, why would IAG be looking to buy them?

They have also started a recruitment drive for RYR pilots being shafted in DUB, and trust me, the Norwegian passenger experience at least on the flights I have had with them, is just as good if not better than BA. (Newer aircraft)
"Join Norwegian's expanding Dublin base to fly on our 737s in a European and transatlantic operation.

Norwegian offers local contracts, a group wide master seniority list for upgrades and base biddings, and the possibility to transfer between our fleets (at present we fly Boeing 737s and 787s).

Register your application on careers.norwegian.com. We will have screening days available in August, with starting dates later this year."
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 04:52
  #150 (permalink)  
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Easyjet just dropped the part time aspect of contracts for permanent FOs and are now offering 100% full time contracts to any right hand seat pilot who wants it. There is a definite shortage of right hand seat pilots and they are close to admitting that fact. I would say personal negotiation of your terms is now possible if you have relevant experience.

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Old 26th Jul 2018, 05:48
  #151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by 2unlimited View Post
As for the debate BA vs LoCo's, I think it depends what you want in life and what stage you are at in life.
BA, sure you can fly many different aircraft etc., but in the end after a while it's not the time you spend at work that creates the greatest value you in your life, it's the time you spend with loved ones and family. Finding the balance between work and lifestyle is the main thing.
I think many join BA based on old thoughts of the prestige of flying for a flag carrier, however all the great advantages of working for flag carriers are slowly disappearing.
If you join BA first SH, you are living from a suitcase, from hotel to hotel. You are just living to work the next day. Sure if you are young and have no commitments, children / family etc. you probably don't mind this lifestyle. However having lived the hotel life over 10 years myself, I can assure you there is only so much you can take before it becomes just another day to get trough.

Some say you should embrace the lifestyle, and discover new parts of the world, sure sounds nice, but I rather discover new parts of the world with loved ones, than alone - as the experience becomes hollow and empty not to have someone to share the memories with.

Similar you than go to long haul, destinations all over the world, sure excitement in the start, stopover in exotic countries, enjoying night life in your downtime, again it's single persons lifestyle. You hardly ever home, if you have children you will miss 90% of the things in their lives, if you are married or in a relationship, how do you expect to maintain this when you are constantly away?

I have a friend working Long Haul, he has dated a few Cabin Crew, and I told him he should find someone not in aviation to settle down with, but he explains how can he find someone, when he is always away.
Having friends, and having met loads of aircrews in many of my travels around the world, I "know the lifestyle" - and for most it ends in multiple divorces and little or not much contact with your own children.

Now some people in their 20s and early 30's, might not yet appreciate this aspect in life, and are still blinded by the chance to fly the A380 or Dreamliner.

However for me personally after commuting for many years by flight abroad, when I landed my first job back in the UK, it was the biggest life changer ever in my life. When I everyday finished duty and knew that in not long time I would be home with my loved ones, in my own bed, and could actually use my off time to something useful and meaningful instead of just sitting in a hotel room or apartment and wasting time, waiting for time until I could get home. It would go days, some time weeks being away, just to get home for 2 days before had to leave again.

That feeling to be home everyday is worth more than all the money in the world. I have been offered work trough friends in the far east where I could make 4 - 5 times what I make now, and probably work half of what I am working now, but considering the massive commute and time away, and all what I would miss I would never consider doing this.

In the end it all comes down to what you value most in your own life, it's a personal choice.
When old people are asked on question, what in life do you wish you had done more, spent more time doing, the ONE ANSWER, NEVER given, is "I wish I had spent more time at work"

That's the reason I would NEVER work for BA, it's just not for me and what I value in life. But thank god we are not all the same, because I like to go on holiday with my family to those destinations that Long Haul pilots fly, but I want to go there to enjoy with family and friends, and not sit there alone staring at the sun (and any temptations that might come my way because I am feeling lonely) And what many forget, is that their partner/wife might also be feeling lonely at home, so who knows who does what. ( based on true stories told by few long haul pilots I know)
Its interesting to be told about my lifestyle and future career at BA from someone who has NEVER worked here.

Having worked for both a low cost airline and now BA I can tell you my lifestyle is infinitely better than it was previously. I am SH at LGW which suits me perfectly for now living in the south east with a 15 minute drive to work. I work almost exclusively early day trips with a few longer trips thrown in for variety which suits my young family. The summer is certainly full on here but no more so than at my last employer and the winters are considerably quieter. I feel that I am treated as an adult and work day to day with some fantastic colleagues. As I say for now this suits me but knowing I have the options when the need or desire for change arises is what for me makes BA the better option.

I undertand BA isnít for everyone but to make out you canít have both a fulfilling career and brilliant home life while working here is simply not true.
JulietSierra6 is online now  
Old 26th Jul 2018, 07:44
  #152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 379
JulietSierra66. 2Unlimited has described BA at LHR to the T. Not sure I could put it better myself really. The only thing I would add is our stupid rostering. Honestly sometimes I want to lamp the t&£t that is laughing about JSS calling it the junior shafting system. LGW I understand is very different to the grind at LHR.

Dct_mopas. Thank you for that. Is the rostering random or fixed pattern? Anything else which you can highlight as a positive or indeed a negative?
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 07:47
  #153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Originally Posted by 2unlimited View Post
REXBANNER - Your observation of Norwegian is very wrong, they just posted large profits in their 2.nd financial quarter, where they was expected to make losses. So not sure where you getting all misinformation from, furthermore if going so bad, why would IAG be looking to buy them?
2unlimited I’ve read the Q2 report and their numbers are still very bad, it is possible to polish a turd with creative accounting. If it wasn’t for currency translation and moves in forward contracts on fuel and currency they would have posted a loss. They’ve also taken money from Rolls Royce, payments which will cease in future. The one thing that is screaming out from those figures in the Q2 report is that they are losing money operationally, however you dress it up. Yield/Revenue per unit (RASK) is below cost levels (CASK) which translates to an operational loss, at a time that is one of the highest travel times of the year, not good news. They’ve sold and leveraged virtually every ounce of liquidity they have and yields are falling faster than costs. It’s not a healthy situation whatsoever.

I’ve flown WW recently and had a face to face conversation with him about the interest in Norwegian but I can’t exactly divulge what was said on here. Anyway, this thread is about BA, if you want to debate me about Norwegian’s finances (although there isn’t much of a debate to be had) just send me a PM or something.

(Having said that it is relevant to anyone considering jumping ship to the flying tampons I suppose.)

Last edited by RexBanner; 26th Jul 2018 at 08:03. Reason: reconsidering the relevance of NAS finances to the thread.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 08:01
  #154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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I wasn't intending to reply to this thread, but to shine a slightly more positive light.. I moved a few years ago from one of the LCC to BA (long haul) and never regretted it for a second. Surely, there are things that could be improved, but my lifestyle is so much better than it used to be. I actually find I have more quality time at home than I ever had before whilst flying low cost and the perspective of having no change for the next X amount of years was just not for me. Of course I had to take a pay cut, but in the long run that will even out. I know 2 other guys who made the same move and they don't regret their move either. I do sometimes wonder if the guys who actually enjoy BA would post here as much as the people who don't - I guess they possibly spend less time on a forum like this, but this is just an assumption of course .
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 08:17
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Age: 38
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On the BA/EZY thing. It’s not all about the money but I have yet to find anything exciting that’s not expensive. BA basic pay is around 13k a year less for a junior captain. In 5 years time it’s still the same gap and in 10 years it closes to 8k. After 21 years in BA you finally catch up. (Assuming PP34 and SH) Allowances are roughly similar. The pension at BA is better though. 16.5% company with AVC’s at my current level verses 7% at easy. I don’t think you can move just for the ££ due to the tax rate over 100k but you could pile that extra into the pension to max your allowance and keep you below 100k.

Rexbanner, what’s your view on the finances?
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 08:30
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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And therein lies the rub Mark, BA Short Haul (at Heathrow anyway, I respect the views of JulietSierra6 regarding Gatwick) is a shitshow compared to Long Haul to the point of being like two separate companies. I’m guessing that at Gatwick you’re not doing the constant aircraft swapping and sitting around at Pret for two hours that we endure here. And then I’m supposed to pipe down and take consolation that I am more senior whilst DEPs from Flybe off the Dash 8 with no jet time take up residence in the RHS of the 777/787, even though seniority in terms of lifestyle at BA is only relevant to the seat you’re in at the time and we could be waiting multiple years to see it (and enjoying the delights of multiple reports/sectors in and out of Heathrow in the meantime) because of all the DEPs flooding into the long haul fleets.

The RHS Airbus has stagnated for a year now at least even though there are new recruits coming in meaning no lifestyle improvement at a time where there is recruitment going on. I fully take the point that it has stagnated in the past, 9/11 etc (I could take that, I’d feel lucky to have a job) but that’s apples and oranges, it’s stagnating now and it shouldn’t be.

Bex I can’t comment on the finances too much, at least no one should read too much into my interpretation of the finances in the RHS of the Airbus unless you’re also a single guy commuting from a tax haven ;-)
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 08:39
  #157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Yes I completely understand that RexBanner and I am in no position to comment on the shorthaul / Heathrow lifestyle from that perspective. I fully understand that that's a completely different world and it must be quite frustrating at times. However, earlier in this thread the long haul lifestyle in BA was discussed as well, hence my post to give a slightly more positive view.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 13:50
  #158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 93
It's completely wrong to suggest you can't have a good home life at BA.

For starters I spend FAR more time with my family than most people who work normal 9-5 (read 8-6) jobs. Anyone who works in the City is lucky to see their children at all during the week. At least that is certainly true for the people I know who are travelling out to the commuter belt every day.

Specifically in relation to easyJet vs BA, I would question the amount of "quality time" you are getting at home on a block of work at easyJet and therefore the relevance of being home every night. When I did it (at LGW) I remember a) not being able to make any plans for downtime on "days on" anyway because my roster would always change and b) being close to useless after coming home off early duties anyway. I accept it might be better at regional bases.

Let's be honest, whether it is coming home at 2am and crawling into bed when everyone else is asleep already, coming home at 2pm and falling asleep on the sofa, or being 4000 miles away in a hotel, the life of an airline pilot has it's challenges from a family perspective. It's just which of these challenges you find easiest to live with that matters.
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Old 14th Sep 2018, 15:34
  #159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 17
I’ve posted my thoughts on the “advice from easyjet Pilots” thread and then found this

I’m BA LH and have made the decision to leave after relentlessly riding the bike for just over two years. This thread has made cathartic reading. I realise I’m not the only one which makes me feel a little better . I’ve previosuly felt quite alone (probably what kept me here) in my thinking. Cultural view is a powerful thing in our profession, and the ethos that you should be happy in a perceived pinicle environment is a manipulating tonic.

But, ive come to realise I’m not the only one. It’s all personal from one person to another. To characterise, for me, even the lifestyle could be fantastic (it is not) and I’d still need to leave. I’m just unhappy here for a lot of reasons that only now I’m starting to get a handle on.
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 13:54
  #160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Up!
Age: 38
Posts: 6
Hi guys,

reviving a fairly old thread now but trying to find out how peeps who have jumped BA to EZY are finding it? I am RHS A320 LHR and finding it not what I hoped for!

I am in the EZY hold pool now for a (hopefully) SFO LTN placement (they seemed quite certain I would be OK with that). I am not interested in Long haul (need to be at home as often as poss, disabled child at home), Inefficiency really winds me up and 1:15 drive each way is starting to aggravate an old back injury (LTN is only 25 mins away).

So questions wise,
1. Can EZY FO's really not park?! seems odd to me!
2. Can FO's call stop? surprised me during the sim check when the skipper took over the thrust levers on TO, hadn't seen that coming.
3. Is the atmosphere at Easy as relaxed as it seemed during the recruitment day?
4. How often do trips change on the roster? as a general rule I don't mind what I do on a particular day at work but I would like to know when i'm not working!
5. Hows LTN as a base?
6. Any other up to date factors which may influence my decision to take/ not take them up on an offer?

I have spoken to a few peeps and read the thread, just have this nagging doubt in the back of my head that going BA to EZY shouldn't make sense, but the evidence doesn't support it.

hope all well
monquay is offline  

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