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Leaving BA for low cost

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Leaving BA for low cost

Old 28th Jul 2019, 12:17
  #181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Unless youíre on the Airbus where the handling pilot pulls reverse. The Airbus fleets now are very close to ĎAirbus standard SOPsí with the major exception being the monitored approach.

champ
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 12:18
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VinRouge View Post


monitored approaches actually make lots of sense, having seen a few go arounds now, much tidier and far less of a shock for the handling pilot to fly. After all, thatís what he has briefed, whereas the landing pilot is expecting to do that.

If I were going to nitpick an SOP that just is a bit odd, itís the Non handling pilot selection of reverse.

I would much prefer to work for an outfit though that has an oddity like that though but trusts me as an experienced professional to pull the thrust levers from RHS or call stop as the heavy in the middle seat. Suppose it comes down to trust and experience.
Thread creep...

You might be able to Ďpull the thrust leversí on the ground, but we arenít trusted to use them in the air. QED.

You cannot call Ďstopí as heavy, that SOP changed a long time ago. Perhaps a flick through the books might be in order?!

As you were...

Last edited by DuctOvht; 28th Jul 2019 at 13:26.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 16:22
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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I really don't get the fascination with minor variations around SOP's. Who cares? Really? The only things that matter at the end of the day are pay, lifestyle and job security. Who gets to use the thrust levers or park the aeroplane or call stop is absolutely and totally irrelevant.

Back to the thread.

The only places I would personally consider in the UK are BA, EZY or RYR. Anything else seems to me to be a gamble on long term job security. Bear in mind the "OP" is talking about leaving BA. They are not an unemployed cadet looking for their first job. However many years you have left, 10, 20, 30, 40, is anyone really confident that any other operator other than the three I have listed provide a decent shot at making it to retirement? Again I would emphasise that I say this in the context of someone gainfully employed at BA. You can afford to be picky and you must be.

Personally, I cannot imagine ever wanting to work for Ryanair. And the industrial landscape there is barely any better than at BA. You could argue it's worse. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

That leaves easyJet.

All IMHO, obviously.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 18:14
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VinRouge View Post


monitored approaches actually make lots of sense, having seen a few go arounds now, much tidier and far less of a shock for the handling pilot to fly. After all, thatís what he has briefed, whereas the landing pilot is expecting to do that.

If I were going to nitpick an SOP that just is a bit odd, itís the Non handling pilot selection of reverse.

I would much prefer to work for an outfit though that has an oddity like that though but trusts me as an experienced professional to pull the thrust levers from RHS or call stop as the heavy in the middle seat. Suppose it comes down to trust and experience.
All BA aircraft are 2 pilot flight crew. No checklists involve an augmented crew member. Stop can only be called by the P1/P2
Third and sometimes fourth crew are only carried when Duty Period requires augmented crew.
Also BA does not use partially qualified crew members as SOs. All P2 qualified for 2 crew operations.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 18:15
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FACoff View Post
To revive an old post, in part thanks to the current climate at BA, I'm wondering how many are still like minded to leave. I meet people on the jet bridge regularly who are at their wits end and I'm one of them.

If you're looking to leave, where to?
FACoff if youíre SH have you considered Gatwick? I was 3 years at Heathrow made the move to Gatters in January and I honestly havenít been as happy in BA as I have since I moved. None of this JSS rubbish, no three week long reserve periods and skippers are far better to fly with, with very few exceptions. Plus youíll jump in seniority compared to Heathrow. To be fair Iím still desperate for Long Haul but Gatwick is, in my opinion, a far nicer place to wait it out.

Last edited by RexBanner; 28th Jul 2019 at 18:27.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 21:12
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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Iíd agree that BA, easy and Ryanair are probably the most stable but having seen my mates low cost short haul roster in the orange one, it wouldnít matter because Iíd be dead or medical - less in under five years I reckon. That ainít sustainable.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 21:36
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Meester proach View Post
I’d agree that BA, easy and Ryanair are probably the most stable but having seen my mates low cost short haul roster in the orange one, it wouldn’t matter because I’d be dead or medical - less in under five years I reckon. That ain’t sustainable.
This is something I’ve never really understood. Don’t BA 320 folk do 6 on /1 off 6 on? So is it just that you don’t start as early or finish as late? I can’t imagine feeling any less tired with a 2 hour wait in pret every day? Any more than a 40 minute turn and I’m losing the will ... I just want to get home!
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 22:29
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Busdriver01 View Post


This is something Iíve never really understood. Donít BA 320 folk do 6 on /1 off 6 on? So is it just that you donít start as early or finish as late? I canít imagine feeling any less tired with a 2 hour wait in pret every day? Any more than a 40 minute turn and Iím losing the will ... I just want to get home!
How common is 6 on / 1 off though?
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 23:37
  #189 (permalink)  
VJW
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Originally Posted by Meester proach View Post
Iíd agree that BA, easy and Ryanair are probably the most stable but having seen my mates low cost short haul roster in the orange one, it wouldnít matter because Iíd be dead or medical - less in under five years I reckon. That ainít sustainable.
No idea what youíre on about. 10 years in Ryr and one now in Ezy and easy is quite literally what it is.

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Old 29th Jul 2019, 00:01
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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Don’t do it, BA is one of the best airline gig’s around. Every other airline getting mentioned here pale’s in comparison. Stick it out,
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 08:57
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
Donít do it, BA is one of the best airline gigís around. Every other airline getting mentioned here paleís in comparison. Stick it out,
Depends how you look at it. If youíre junior on SH in either seat, BA will work you harder for less money than the competition. If your goal is Longhaul, if youíre junior itís not much better and VS is probably worth serious consideration. If youíre likely to see some seniority (which depends entirely on your demographic and the date you join), it may be worth it in the long run but no, it isnít one of the best airline gigs around. Not by a long shot.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 09:16
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
Donít do it, BA is one of the best airline gigís around. Every other airline getting mentioned here paleís in comparison. Stick it out,
Haha !! Good joke !! I remember when I joined they said you are now the best pilots in the world, flying for the best airline !
Funny how the Nigel Doctrine works on some
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 10:18
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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Ridiculous to say that BA,EZY and Ryanair will be the sole survivors... Im a BA Pilot and a realist!!

BA are hugely vulnerable to a third runway... The company benefits from a Heathrow monopoly. Loose that and the significant profits that go with it and IAG will look very differently at the setup! Thatís if they donít start to look at us differently regardless.

Also, we at BA have managed to see the loss of NAPS, bidline, seeded blindlines... As well as a myriad of other items that are starting to bite!! We are just as vulnerable as anyone long term ( especially Ts & Cts)... And certainly NOT the best gig in town... If you have the drive and sanity to last out the perils of JSS, a ridiculous seniority system and working out of the joy that is Heathrow... And live within suitable commuting distance... Then itís competitive in the UK... But thatís it!!
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 10:47
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VJW View Post


No idea what youíre on about. 10 years in Ryr and one now in Ezy and easy is quite literally what it is.

You must be superman/ women then, or have started when you were 18 ( which is the upper limit I guess )These four sector days terminating at 0030, only to return at 1500 the same day and repeat.

Slavery.


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Old 29th Jul 2019, 10:52
  #195 (permalink)  
VJW
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Originally Posted by Meester proach View Post
You must be superman/ women then, or have started when you were 18 ( which is the upper limit I guess )These four sector days terminating at 0030, only to return at 1500 the same day and repeat.

Slavery.
Iím pushing 40 with a 2 year old and a newborn coming. Started mid/late 20ís. Slavery isnít the word for what I do. I turned down BA long haul last year who offered me a contract with half the salary easyjetís contract had written on it. One of the two valued my experience properly and paid me accordingly. I donít regret it for a single moment, and I wouldnít even go to BA if they opened up DEC.

If I genuinely feel fatigued Iíd call up and let them know. The fallout of this would be nothing negative towards me but in the year Iíve been here Iíve not had to use this facility.

If youíve been looking at an EJ roster compared to your own BA LH one then yes we work more days than you. Go compare ours to a BA SH one and come back to me.

I think some people are a little too precious.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 11:09
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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To be fair, I'm not sure I'd consider £105k basic for a captain as being "paid accordingly", especially for the amount and type of work you do at easy. Every easy pilot I pass on the way to/from the car park looks like the walking dead - or certainly too tired for a polite "hello".

If lifestyle is what you're after, it sounds like neither easy or BA are the way to go.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 11:29
  #197 (permalink)  
 
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I definitely work a lot less hard and feel a lot less tired at EZY than I ever did at RYR. EZY do have some pretty early starts/late finishes which can be tiring. I'm at the big London base and average around 700 hours a year. At RYR it was 900hrs every year. I've worked for a couple pf other airlines over my career and three years in at EZY I'm very happy with the move.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 11:47
  #198 (permalink)  
VJW
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Originally Posted by Vokes55 View Post
To be fair, I'm not sure I'd consider £105k basic for a captain as being "paid accordingly", especially for the amount and type of work you do at easy.
Funny how people look at things. BA offering a £59k basic to join and easy offered £104k. The roles are very different yes but my family donít care which seat I sit on. I suggest you donít look at the BA pay scales as well. The fact it takes 14 years on BA SH lgw to make the basic easy paid me the day I joined...... speaks volumes and itís why threads like this crop up.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 14:13
  #199 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
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I’ve heard of several people who left my outfit to join BA, did a few years, and then managed to walk back across the slightly burnt bridge, albeit on the lowest contract available at the time. For most who leave to BA its for the opportunity of long haul which is just never going to be a possibility here. For some it’s the thought that, in their early 20s, being in a loco forever more may not be the most “exciting” career (who’d have thought, maybe it really does benefit you to go and fly knackered old TPs With the auto throttle and only a basic Ap delivering mail for a few years?). I do have to question the logic of leaving a seniority based airline after only a few years (only 1 year in some cases) of SH flying with them before having tried LH, or gaining a bit of seniority but everyone’s situation is different.

As several people have already said, the fact this thread even exists is a worrying sign of the state of our industries Ts + Cs...

Last edited by Busdriver01; 29th Jul 2019 at 15:36.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 15:29
  #200 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Busdriver01 View Post
Iíve heard of several people who left my outfit to join BA, did a few years, and then managed to walk back across the slightly burnt bridge, albeit on the lowest contract available at the time. For most who leave to BA its for the opportunity of long haul which is just never going to be a possibility here. For some itís the thought that, in their early 20s, being in a loco forever more may not be the most exciting career (whoíd have thought, maybe it really does benefit you to go and fly knackered old TPs With the auto throttle and only a basic Ap delivering mail for a few years?). I do have to question the logic of leaving a seniority based airline after only a few years (only 1 year in some cases) of SH flying with them before having tried LH, or gaining a bit of seniority but everyoneís situation is different.

As several people have already said, the fact this thread even exists is a worrying sign of the state of our industries Ts + Cs...
so Iím on the other side of the pond, but at 50 I have a bit of my own experience to impart. I was at a legacy here and I left to go to another legacy because I thought it would provide a better career path. Then 9-11 and then bankruptcy and the T&C were completely unsettling to me. I couldnít imagine my career going this direction or staying with my airline under those conditions. I took a leave to fly a Citation X and then I went back to the legacy for a month before leaving to fly the ďmailĒ as you say. I couldnít imagine the legacy I was at would ever recover. So I left in 2007! Then the world economy collapsed in 2009 and I found myself at the bottom of the list at my new airline. Ha! The best laid plans.

I only offer this because sometimes the slow and steady is the way to go. Over an entire career T&C will change. What is hard to win is chasing bases, aircraft, upgrades, etc. I know the market in Europe is different than the US, but I am reading a lot of comments on time to upgrade and to get certain bases... it makes me pause. I know nothing about the state of BA, but I will say I never would have guessed my old legacy contract would bounce back like it did.

Sometimes the current schedule makes one think that they need to make some huge change as soon as possible. If they would have waited just a year or two it could look totally different. Iíve change aircraft and bases and at times itís seemed like a totally different company and job. If SH is Bad, try LH. Tired of that? Go back to SH. It might take time to get the position you want, but options are great. Use caution with rash decisions based on how it looks today. Step back and have the long view.

Iím happy with my decision, and itís been a great ride, but I would have been better served by staying put. Best of luck in your decision.

Last edited by cessnaxpilot; 29th Jul 2019 at 23:01.
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