Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

Leaving BA for low cost

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Leaving BA for low cost

Old 31st Jul 2019, 20:39
  #221 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: EU
Age: 43
Posts: 766
Over 15 years in and yet to suffer burnout. Yes I am tired, but I am not fatigued. When it becomes too much I just call in fatigued.

Yes on earlies I go to bed at 8pm and I have school age children.
Phensocks is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2019, 21:46
  #222 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canadian Shield
Posts: 536
Well I'm well into my second decade of flying and being flogged and to be honest my health is fine. I just can't get too stressed about the day to day operation because it just isn't worth it. I've heard my crew moan and whinge over the years about slot delays, tech problems, company decisions etc etc but at the end of the day you won't whinge the issues away so there's no point in letting it get to you. I take every day as it comes and just don't get excitable about much and I have to say my time at work is very relaxed even if it's going to rat sh!t because it's completely out of my hands. Yesterday we were suffering from slot delays and my first officer was whinging the whole day about it, now that was tiresome and fatuiging.
You should consider writing a 'Self-Help Guide for Pilots'.
er340790 is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2019, 22:46
  #223 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,058


Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post



Yeah I wish I could do that.
My my son doesnít sleep before 8pm.

Where do you get top 3% UK household from?
My misses brings in over £100k me around £50k but we donít feel well of at all!!!
why does your son going to bed after 8pm affect when you go to bed, or what time you get up? As I said, get an au pair in. Double mega salary requires sacrifice. Thatís what we get paid mega bucks for.

i suspect another family chained to the south east rat race. Couldnít do it myself.
VinRouge is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2019, 23:56
  #224 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 105
Originally Posted by VinRouge View Post



why does your son going to bed after 8pm affect when you go to bed, or what time you get up? As I said, get an au pair in. Double mega salary requires sacrifice. Thatís what we get paid mega bucks for.

i suspect another family chained to the south east rat race. Couldnít do it myself.
If Iím on early shifts I will do the pick up from nursery. Misses would have done the drop of so wouldnít get to work until 9 at the earliest. Her job is not 9-5 has to be at least 10 hrs or people comment even though she sometimes works a bit when she gets home.
So I will be putting him to bed just as she is getting in 1 hr wind down tidy up so in bed 9-10 before getting up 3:30-4am for early shift.
To be fair I donít mind because I sleep anywhere. Either nap in the car 30 mins or nap at home even before a late I sometimes power nap love it.
Yeah aviation is hard but see above. My misses probably puts in 50-60 hrs a week and even on holiday she has to answer important emails. Her colleagues have been known to work couple of hours in the morning grab middayish flight to NY arriving around 17:00 local straight to meetings/clients out for the evening then flight back to London before back in the office for midday. Trouble is we love London canít see ourselves living outside of a city.

Sorry slight digress.

Both have pros and cons what ever works for you go with it but I do think BA is more suited to mid-late 20s get some seniority before you have a family then you can plan a bit better.
AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2019, 09:23
  #225 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,058
Originally Posted by midnight cruiser View Post
Given that junior BA short haul (LHS or RHS) is not competitive in any way, I guess we are comparing long haul (BA) to loco short haul. And the health effects of working through the night + jet lag, are proven far far worse than getting up early (especially once you get into the early/late groove. Being in your bed in the wee small hours of the night are crucial to health.
how many hours controlled/in flight rest do you get on Shorthaul?
VinRouge is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2019, 21:47
  #226 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: The Harvest Moon
Posts: 1,517
As an EZY lifer skipper having just reached 60 I can tell you that the long days just get harder and harder and for us LCC guinea pigs, burn out is a fact, as the 75% of skippers at my base who are part time will testify.

IMHO itís not just an EZY thing but a fact of life for airline pilots these days. Skin cancer, enlarged prostate, chronic fatigue etc etc are all things you young pups have got to look forward to, trust me.

The advice I give to the youngsters I fly with - get your command, pay off your debts and go part time - then the job is fantastic.



Rocket Ron is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 00:38
  #227 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: hang on let me check
Posts: 503
Guys have you had a good look at the EASA FTL?? I ask again, have you seen the EASA FTL??? And still people are here lecturing on how to be in bed by 8 p.m!
Unreal.

Last edited by bringbackthe80s; 2nd Aug 2019 at 03:56.
bringbackthe80s is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 04:07
  #228 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 38
On the US side we donít have a ďpart timeĒ option. Some airlines allow you to drop your schedule and lose pay, but most donít. A full schedule is anywhere from 12 to 15 days a month.

Im intrigued by all of the discussion of part time. Is that common in Europe? Is it difficult to get? And lastly, how many days is a full schedule and how many is it if working part time. I think thatís brilliant... when the kids are young Iíd love part time, and now that i have a teenager Iím quite okay working a bit more :-)
cessnaxpilot is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 04:19
  #229 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: somewhere between Miami and Havana
Posts: 114
Originally Posted by cessnaxpilot View Post
On the US side we don’t have a “part time” option. Some airlines allow you to drop your schedule and lose pay, but most don’t. A full schedule is anywhere from 12 to 15 days a month.

Im intrigued by all of the discussion of part time. Is that common in Europe? Is it difficult to get? And lastly, how many days is a full schedule and how many is it if working part time. I think that’s brilliant... when the kids are young I’d love part time, and now that i have a teenager I’m quite okay working a bit more :-)

12-15 days a month would be a part time contract at BA. Even for a part timer (75%), 12 days would be a light month; probably not possible without leave.

B
Buter is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 08:27
  #230 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: somewhere hot and sticky
Age: 39
Posts: 272
Originally Posted by cessnaxpilot View Post
Im intrigued by all of the discussion of part time. Is that common in Europe? Is it difficult to get? And lastly, how many days is a full schedule and how many is it if working part time.
I'm new in BA, directly onto long haul. The two months I've had of completely normal roster (no leave or reserve etc) have both been 18 days at work. Both those months have had 5 trips of 3-5 days each plus one month had 2 sim days.

The part time seems to be working the opposite way from how you suggest... more senior pilots seem to be part time as they can no longer handle full time work. Not too many young part timers that I have met. That's just my impression!

BA works well for me personally, much more than a LCC but you can't deny I would be on a lot more money at a LCC - as others have said it will take 14 years to even equal the basic pay of an EZY skipper.
Dupre is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 19:52
  #231 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 3,976
Originally Posted by cessnaxpilot View Post
On the US side we donít have a ďpart timeĒ option. Some airlines allow you to drop your schedule and lose pay, but most donít. A full schedule is anywhere from 12 to 15 days a month.

Im intrigued by all of the discussion of part time. Is that common in Europe? Is it difficult to get? And lastly, how many days is a full schedule and how many is it if working part time. I think thatís brilliant... when the kids are young Iíd love part time, and now that i have a teenager Iím quite okay working a bit more :-)
It seems to be kinda common. In germany it is actually a basic workers right to get part time if requested. That can be restricted somewhat by a CLA, for example with quotas depending on "operational needs". Where i work we use a fixed roster, 5 days on, 3 off, 5 days on, 4 off. That is full time. Common part time choices are 7/7, 7 days off and 7 days on including at least one rest/off day and 14/14, 14 days off, a 14 day working block with 9 working days and another 5 rest/off days. The 7/14 days off are planned in a row. On a full time roster i fly around 50 to 60 block hours a month with around double that in duty time during summer, less in winter. And that is LCC work, but a tad lower on hours than most other bases as we do fly a lot of 50 minute domestic sectors.
Denti is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 20:21
  #232 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting home
Age: 42
Posts: 2,683
n.b. also that the EU-wide law on mobile workers in aviation prescribes a minimum of:
- 4 weeks (24x7) of paid holiday
- plus 96 off days
for every calendar year.

That is the mathematical equivalent of all annual weekend days after having subtracted the 4 weeks of leave. No OFFs for national/bank holidays. Spread evenly over a year (not a realistic scenario), that leaves almost exactly 20 days for duties in each of the months. Thus 75% part-time yields 15 workdays on a long term average - no charity, just crunching numbers.
FlightDetent is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 20:42
  #233 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
n.b. also that the EU-wide law on mobile workers in aviation prescribes a minimum of:
- 4 weeks (24x7) of paid holiday
- plus 96 off days
for every calendar year.

That is the mathematical equivalent of all annual weekend days after having subtracted the 4 weeks of leave. No OFFs for national/bank holidays. Spread evenly over a year (not a realistic scenario), that leaves almost exactly 20 days for duties in each of the months. Thus 75% part-time yields 15 workdays on a long term average - no charity, just crunching numbers.
for the four weeks vacation, does that mean... for example... that if in a normal month you work 15 days, so you use 2 weeks of vacation and now youíre basically off for a month?
cessnaxpilot is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 21:20
  #234 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: U.K
Posts: 65
Thread drift!
when I went part time my flying/duty hours increased, the part time guys were rostered the long days but got more days off, invariably starting on the earlies and finishing on the lates. The full time guys got the cushy duties.
Europe short haul.
simmple is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2019, 07:18
  #235 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 294
Originally Posted by Rocket Ron View Post
As an EZY lifer skipper having just reached 60 I can tell you that the long days just get harder and harder and for us LCC guinea pigs, burn out is a fact, as the 75% of skippers at my base who are part time will testify.

IMHO itís not just an EZY thing but a fact of life for airline pilots these days. Skin cancer, enlarged prostate, chronic fatigue etc etc are all things you young pups have got to look forward to, trust me.

The advice I give to the youngsters I fly with - get your command, pay off your debts and go part time - then the job is fantastic.


Not just Airline Pilots but many people have worked a life time of shifts - particularly night shift workers and all the negatives that go with it. I'm sure also a few of the Airline Pilots who are part time will appreciate these folk don't have the benefits of part time. There is always someone worse off.
Twiglet1 is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2019, 08:27
  #236 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 781
Originally Posted by Twiglet1 View Post
Not just Airline Pilots but many people have worked a life time of shifts - particularly night shift workers and all the negatives that go with it. I'm sure also a few of the Airline Pilots who are part time will appreciate these folk don't have the benefits of part time. There is always someone worse off.
Indeed ~ 97% earning a tiny fraction of an airline pilots salary.

My advice to the OP would be to get command in BA on the 320 then apply to places as a DEC rather than a DEP. Quick upgrades arenít guaranteed at a new airline and while thatíll be the aim, what youíre actually doing is swapping BA LH FO for FO SH loco somewhere in the hope youíll a) get a quick upgrade opportunity and b) pass the course. Iíd wait until I had upgraded on SH in BA first and see what options are available then...
VJW is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.