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Leaving BA for low cost

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Leaving BA for low cost

Old 4th Jul 2018, 11:49
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 28
What about TUI UK with the opportunity of long or short haul and regional basing, would you recommend this over BA as a career choice?
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Old 4th Jul 2018, 15:58
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 435
TUI, with regional basing over BA.......hell yes. My last duty I left home at 14:00 got stuck on the M4 and arrived for work at 15:45. So that was half an hours hold up but still ok as report was 16:00. Check in, flight delayed to 18:00 because the aircraft was late inbound. Pick up a ATC slot and eventually depart at 19:00 for a quick there and back. Again a slot and get back to my car gone midnight. M4 road works and eventually arrive home at 1:30. 11:30 door to door to go to the south of France and back. FFS really. The best bit is I can do it again for another 4 days before having 2 off. Oh that and itís only worth 4:30 credit and £40 in flight pay.
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Old 4th Jul 2018, 16:11
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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And that’s before they start moving the M25 and building a third runway! If indeed they actually do ever make a start ��
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Old 4th Jul 2018, 18:31
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Al tube.
Posts: 430
Having backed the wrong horse early on in my career, being ex-Monarch, I considered easyjet amongst others when things went south but BA was of no interest as there was no way I could pay the mortgage. The thought of commuting to LHR was also a total turn-off .
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Old 4th Jul 2018, 20:48
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 23
As always itís horses for courses. So many factors determine your lifestyle at BA. Do you commute? PP24 or PP34? LH or SH? Which fleet? Age? Family circumstances? Seniority? The answer as to whether you stay or go will be different for everyone at every point on the seniority list for different reasons and nobody is right or wrong.

If you want to be home every night forever then BA is not for you. If you canít soak up the frustrations of operating out of LHR then Iíd avoid it like the plague. For a career in short haul then EZY at a regional base probably beats BA - even at LGW. If you get a command after a few years then the money is certainly better at EZY. But if your goal is to travel the world and spend time in places you would probably never see on your holidays then I canít think of anywhere else in the UK that can offer the variety than BA.

Itís not a perfect place to work but you can delete those management emails without having to read them and if you never visit Yammer then youíd find life is pretty good because none of the negativity gets through to you! The variety and choice is unmatched but it goes without saying itís not going to be everyoneís cup of tea. Look after number 1. Too many people are at BA because it impresses the neighbours. Theyíre often the unhappiest of all.
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Old 4th Jul 2018, 22:23
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chateau d'If
Posts: 2,411
Mylius - a very accurate and incisive post.
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 19:10
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Timba Hold
Posts: 67
Having recently joined from EZY I am genuinely surprised at the lack of rostering agreements, fatigue management system and the attitude towards fatigue in general at the company. Looking at several rosters guys/girls are working 6 on 1 off 6 on in certain cases (perhaps overtime) but Im sure a majority being forced to do it in order to get even the slightest bit of control later on in the month. 5/4/5/3 or the FRV pattern back at easy was FAR less fatiguing and the real lack of days off is crazy. Yes- you work fewer block hours, but how is sitting in the pilots bar for 2 hours waiting for an aircraft any less fatiguing? Duty hours are through the roof and the inefficiency of the system really is astonishing. FR are working 5/4 and yet BA see it fit that you can work 7 on 1 off? I appreciate it allows for overtime and moving trips around but when there is so much in overtime days are closed anyway! Grass isn't always greener...!
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 20:43
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 6
Interesting post mikealpha320. My main reasons for applying to BA were the lifestyle benefits - to have more control of what days I have off, control over the type and timing of work I do, and a more sustainable career in short haul. Once you've gained a bit of seniority say a year or 2 in the rhs is this possible or is short haul at BA simply worse than at EZY now, even if you're relatively senior. Thoughts from anyone who has gone EZY to BA in the last few years would be much appreciated.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 11:41
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Right here
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by oleostrutbasher View Post
...My main reasons for applying to BA were the lifestyle benefits - to have more control of what days I have off, control over the type and timing of work I do, and a more sustainable career in short haul...
Hi. I didn't join from Easyjet and left BA for Ryanair but if the above quote is what you expect to find in a job then you've come to the absolute worst place.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 11:46
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
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Oh and another thing; It's not 'horses for courses' or anything along that vein. Unless of course you're a horse with 25plus years of seniority, a crystalized NAPS pension and at the top of a 24 point payscale... None of which are on offer, to be clear.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 11:56
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by oleostrutbasher View Post
... My main reasons for applying to BA were the lifestyle benefits - to have more control of what days I have off, control over the type and timing of work I do, and a more sustainable career in short haul. Once you've gained a bit of seniority say a year or 2 in the rhs is this possible or is short haul at BA simply worse than at EZY now, even if you're relatively senior.
Yikes....you do now that that might have been possible once upon a time, under Bidline, ..but once/if JSS comes in who knows...
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 12:19
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 722
A lot of what is written here reminds me of Churchill’s quote about democracy being the worst type of governance......apart from from all the rest.
B.A does have its issues, as do many other airlines. What is for sure, is the pilot job has changed over 50/40/30/20/10 years...and not for the better.
‘Who is to blame? I’m sure we could come up with a list of suspects. What are we going to do about it collectively? Good question. I’ll vote for anyone that has an answer.
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 12:51
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 188
Originally Posted by oleostrutbasher View Post
Interesting post mikealpha320. My main reasons for applying to BA were the lifestyle benefits - to have more control of what days I have off, control over the type and timing of work I do, and a more sustainable career in short haul. Once you've gained a bit of seniority say a year or 2 in the rhs is this possible or is short haul at BA simply worse than at EZY now, even if you're relatively senior. Thoughts from anyone who has gone EZY to BA in the last few years would be much appreciated.
I've been in 4 years and pretty much get every weekend off, never miss an important occasion and don't fly at night. Haven't done for about a year. It is possible...
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 18:10
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 238
Originally Posted by Stocious View Post
I've been in 4 years and pretty much get every weekend off, never miss an important occasion and don't fly at night. Haven't done for about a year. It is possible...
Every weekend, whatís your secret? Most people I know with 10 years of seniority still work most weekends, not out of choice!
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 18:43
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 714
I guess 4 years in as a SH F/O will see you, ahem, “fly” up the list and gain some control fairly quickly. 10 years seniority on a popular LH fleet will see you just out of the bottom 3rd, maybe even the lofty heights of halfway! Only the 74) will see you top half by then.

On the ezy/BA theme, I think the big orange finally reached a point where rosters were so ridiculous they had to improve - it was certainly bonkers when I was there. If the rumours of new improved fixed roster patterns are true then we may see things develop to the point Ba actually start providing TR’d and experienced Captains to ezy, not the other way round. Which would be a turn up for the books. In reality I think BA are just a bit behind ezy on the cycle of stupid rostering and things will have to improve* as some point.

As things stand, BA lose very few pilots, although I know of one junior P1 who has quit for pastures new recently. Until that changes or we actually grow a pair as a collective and tell BA to poke off things will stay as they are. A moderately experienced pilot can have a lgw s/h command in BA within a couple of years of joining, I reckon that is as quick as it happens anywhere in Europe? Which says it all really. BA is no longer the holy grail, it’s just another airline job.

*I heard anecdotally that an ezy accountant asked why historically they lost so many pilots to BA. “Because our guys are so well trained” came the response.....”we could save a lot more if we didn’t train them so well” was said accountant’s retort - so when I say improve......
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 18:51
  #116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: hang on let me check
Posts: 564
Ahahahahaah fantastic! I hope the last one about the accountant is a joke?!
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Old 9th Jul 2018, 18:55
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 714
I would hope so, but the again, we are talking about an accountant who works for an airline
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Old 10th Jul 2018, 16:10
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 125
Originally Posted by MikeAlpha320 View Post
Having recently joined from EZY I am genuinely surprised at the lack of rostering agreements, fatigue management system and the attitude towards fatigue in general at the company. Looking at several rosters guys/girls are working 6 on 1 off 6 on in certain cases (perhaps overtime) but Im sure a majority being forced to do it in order to get even the slightest bit of control later on in the month. 5/4/5/3 or the FRV pattern back at easy was FAR less fatiguing and the real lack of days off is crazy. Yes- you work fewer block hours, but how is sitting in the pilots bar for 2 hours waiting for an aircraft any less fatiguing? Duty hours are through the roof and the inefficiency of the system really is astonishing. FR are working 5/4 and yet BA see it fit that you can work 7 on 1 off? I appreciate it allows for overtime and moving trips around but when there is so much in overtime days are closed anyway! Grass isn't always greener...!
MA320
One of the FRM requirements of EASA FTL asks just that. question what happens when crew members flying on days off for overtime etc and what processes are in place by the AOC to manage it - The Airlines answer (not just BA) is hum - the FTL limits. With the extended rest recovery periods of EASA FTL you can work crews extremely hard if you so wish (just need to look around Europe to see this especially with a weak regulator)
From what i've seen at UK AOC's most are behaving responsibly particularly if BALPA are keeping them on their toes. Not sure about BA though wasn't there a famous quote "There is no fatigue at BA"
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Old 10th Jul 2018, 22:18
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Timba Hold
Posts: 67
Apparently making cap so high that everyone has to work most waking hours but letting us try to choose how we do it means that its not fatiguing? Add in forcing trips on people- a very poorly organised operation in and out of LHR and the attitude that BA is still the best and there is nowhere else to go and you've got the perfect recipe for this situation. Not to mention forcing captains into RHS so they don't have to pay FO's for the overworked hours in the working agreement. When will BALPA get out of the companies pocket and actually do something?
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Old 10th Jul 2018, 22:33
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: somewhere between Miami and Havana
Posts: 123
September.
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