Leaving BA for low cost

[Stone Cold II]

I’m in the land of Orange LHS. We have a bid preference that so far is working really well for me. I asked for all 2 sector days for July, all my duties are 2 sectors apart from 2 days and a good portion of my 2 sectors are short days, Edi and back etc. Really made a difference to how tired I feel, regional base so my winter was rather quiet and so far touch wood my summer as been steady.

Paywise you can look at it in two ways, yes, BA will have a higher salary but how long will it take to reach it? If you actually get that far? EZY basic CPT is 105k alone, add on sector pay, loyalty bonus (15%) after 10 years, share awards, performance bonus. It all adds up and you’ll be earning much more quicker than at BA.

Depends what you want, like your own bed and wish to see your kids or live on the continent, don’t think you can do better than EZY. Want to see the world on someone’s expense, BA it is.

Regional base with EZY is a brilliant gig overall, not perfect but no job is.

[BizJetJockey]

Excellent thread...how do the benefits stack up at somewhere like EZY compared to BA? Medical/Dental /loss of licence etc. Obviously staff travel is completely different so that’s not really part of the question. Thanks

[Stone Cold II]

You get loss of licence. There is a benefits page and every year you select what benefits you want, some are dental, health, childcare, increase loss of licence. Some of the options allows you to make a saving on taxes.

Private health care care has been spoken about, tried to use it as a bargaining chip on the last pay deal but it was rejected. It poor that EZY still doesn’t off this to all employees, think it’s the only U.K. airline that doesn’t include private health in its standard package.

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by BASHLH

LC even admits on Yammer that DEP’s are signing or being offered contracts to start & then turning them down!

Well spotted, I wonder if Yammer will accept a link to PPRuNe

Sadly LC is but a small cog in a big machine.

[speed freek]

Originally Posted by Stone Cold II

Regional base with EZY is a brilliant gig overall, not perfect but no job is.

For balance, if the OP were to join today, how long would he or she be waiting for that regional base? Be prepared to spend many a year at LGW where things aren't so rosy.

[Cmon-PullUP]

Originally Posted by speed freek

For balance, if the OP were to join today, how long would he or she be waiting for that regional base? Be prepared to spend many a year at LGW where things aren't so rosy.

Depends on the base you want. Most start out where the need is for the company, and then sign up on the transfer lists. However, there are still choices + Ezy is fairly easy commuting wise if you need that. LGW is not all that bad as some claim - I certainly enjoyed my years there.

I am now a LHS commuter on a 71% contract, or a 7/7 as it is called. In real life it often works out as a 5/9 or 6/8 roster. (yes often 9 days off )

Would not even swap this for a direct entry CMD into a 744 if offered.

[whitemonk]

I'm an experienced Boeing SFO at another UK airline (the red and silver one) and would love a European base, particularly PMI... is there any chance easy will get rid of or lower the type rating cost as that is a major barrier to me applying?

[Stone Cold II]

Originally Posted by speed freek

For balance, if the OP were to join today, how long would he or she be waiting for that regional base? Be prepared to spend many a year at LGW where things aren't so rosy.

My base very very popular and everyone who has got a command over the past 18 months has come straight back to base amazingly.

[737 Jockey]

Originally Posted by Cmon-PullUP

Depends on the base you want. Most start out where the need is for the company, and then sign up on the transfer lists. However, there are still choices + Ezy is fairly easy commuting wise if you need that. LGW is not all that bad as some claim - I certainly enjoyed my years there.

I am now a LHS commuter on a 71% contract, or a 7/7 as it is called. In real life it often works out as a 5/9 or 6/8 roster. (yes often 9 days off )

Would not even swap this for a direct entry CMD into a 744 if offered.

I don’t blame you, sounds great!

How easy is it to get part time roster generally in the U.K. but specifically at LGW? Also, is that a fixed pattern or FRV?

Cheers! ��

[Tricia Takanawa]

Thanks for all of the info. Lots of great stuff.

RE EZY. I would be looking at LGW or LTN. Could anyone provide a few typical early and late rotations that one could expect. And am I right in thinking around 18ths to 2 years currently for a cmd?

Also, considering the other Low Cost airlines. Does anyone have any good info on Wizz Air? Ryanair only seem to recruit 737 rated FO's unless you want a Sicily base. Is this correct?

Thanks again for all the great input.

[VJW]

Originally Posted by whitemonk

I'm an experienced Boeing SFO

So a Senior senior first officer

[GKOC41]

Originally Posted by GS-Alpha

My take on it is BA is now very much just another airline, and the full time job has pretty much become unsustainable for an entire career, particularly since the introduction of EASA FTLs. Life expectancy will seriously reduce for anyone who attempts it. Part time is the way forward, and once you’re going down that route, you’re looking more and more at lifestyle choices, and being based at Heathrow is not one of the better lifestyle choices. I’ll have been in for 20 years by the time I get my first command, but once I have sufficient command hours, I’ll be looking very seriously at other airlines. Working for BA has drained the life out of me. I’m constantly bewildered by anyone who leaves another airline to join up. I don’t think outsiders appreciate just how weak, and indeed actively damaging, BALPA within BA is. Our decline at the hands of the current BACC has exceeded all expectations.

GS

Gissa clue then what parts of EASA FTL will cause life expectancy to drop. In many parts EASA FTL is similar to Sub Part Q which was deployed in Europe for years and years.
Is it the old factorisation of flights over 7 hours in CAP371 something that was introduced when Flight Engineers left the cockpit......

[Enzo999]

Interesting thread. Just out of interest this argument only exists because of the existence of DEC and “rapid commands” at the LCCs. The reasons for this are two fold, high turn over of staff and rapid growth. Is it reasonable to expect these two things to continue? We have already estabilished that terms and conditions etc are equal to or better than the legacy rivals so why would people leave? Furthermore how much more expansion can these companies accommodate, between Easy and Ryan they must have close to 1000 airframes and post Brexit will this/ can this contine?

I am just wondering if it was possible for some to jump ship to Easy then sudenly find themselves tapped in the RHS for 10 years, then this whole argument becomes extremely different! Plus is basing an issue, to my mind there is no point in taking a command if it means having to live in a different country to you wife and children.

Like many I have been extremely disillusioned by my experience of joining BA and have often pondered about jumping ship, but this fear of the above somehow always puts me off.

[Buter]

GK - Have you seen what’s actually possible under EASA? It’s only our industrial agreements (which are being constantly chipped away at) stopping long haul from becoming absolutely miserable. Brakes on at 0500 from JNB and report at 1800 for JFK? Sure, why not... No more 4 crew trips? No problem...

Our flat earthers are subject to full EASA limits -30 minutes. I assure you they are not happy about it and those without much time invested in our precious seniority list have left/will leave/are considering their options.

Cheers

Buter

[Denti]

Originally Posted by Enzo999

Interesting thread. Just out of interest this argument only exists because of the existence of DEC and “rapid commands” at the LCCs. The reasons for this are two fold, high turn over of staff and rapid growth. Is it reasonable to expect these two things to continue? We have already estabilished that terms and conditions etc are equal to or better than the legacy rivals so why would people leave? Furthermore how much more expansion can these companies accommodate, between Easy and Ryan they must have close to 1000 airframes and post Brexit will this/ can this contine?

I am just wondering if it was possible for some to jump ship to Easy then sudenly find themselves tapped in the RHS for 10 years, then this whole argument becomes extremely different! Plus is basing an issue, to my mind there is no point in taking a command if it means having to live in a different country to you wife and children.

Like many I have been extremely disillusioned by my experience of joining BA and have often pondered about jumping ship, but this fear of the above somehow always puts me off.

Yes, once a market is saturated LCCs will have to adjust and grow slower or not at all. However, Europe is far away from that at the moment. Easy for example has only bases in one city in germany, the biggest economy in the EU, apart from that they are present in switzerland (different company though), the UK of course as their main market, spain, france italy and a bit of spain and the netherlands. Nothing in eastern europe or northern europe. There is still a lot of expansion to be done in the markets they are in already, not to mention those they are not in yet. It is going to get harder though, as of course other LCCs did spring up in those markets with Norwegian and Wizzair. Ryanair on the other hand is already present in more markets, but there is still a lot of expansion to be done as well. Easy is currently at around 300 airframes and will probably reach 330 to 360 airframes at the end of the calendar year. Ryanair has something like 440 airframes and will most likely add quite a few frames this year as well.

Compare that to the US with close to 1000 planes in total between southwest and jet blue, not to mention the other ones, in a home market with something like 330 million customers, vs around 500 million in the EU alone, not to mention the other european states or even northern africa which is in range of narrowbody aircraft.

[skyflyer737]

Originally Posted by Enzo999

Interesting thread. Just out of interest this argument only exists because of the existence of DEC and “rapid commands” at the LCCs. The reasons for this are two fold, high turn over of staff and rapid growth. Is it reasonable to expect these two things to continue? We have already estabilished that terms and conditions etc are equal to or better than the legacy rivals so why would people leave? Furthermore how much more expansion can these companies accommodate, between Easy and Ryan they must have close to 1000 airframes and post Brexit will this/ can this contine?

I am just wondering if it was possible for some to jump ship to Easy then sudenly find themselves tapped in the RHS for 10 years, then this whole argument becomes extremely different! Plus is basing an issue, to my mind there is no point in taking a command if it means having to live in a different country to you wife and children.

Like many I have been extremely disillusioned by my experience of joining BA and have often pondered about jumping ship, but this fear of the above somehow always puts me off.

Ryanair have around 445 to 450 aircraft at the moment, going to 550 shortly with their 200 orders. Plan after that is close to 1000 aircraft in total going into the next decade and I see no reason why they won’t get there. So in my view, yes, the expansion will continue if they can get the pilots. A few Capts currently leaving for China, Jet2 & Easy and FOs mainly heading to Norwegian. The odd one here and there to legacy airlines such as BA & Air France and a handful to TUI.

In my view, the expansion will very much continue and the pressure on Ryanair to keep the salaries competitve will be high.

[BluSdUp]

And now, that Lufthansa is going to buy Norwegian, BA is going to struggle even more.
Mind You anyone with BA experience will be a shoe-in at Norwegian LH !
Good time to change!

[student88]

Hmm, a lot of sh1t stirring here and firing about of fake news.

I know of one guy who has left for a DEC A330 job in China but he commutes from NYC, he was a junior captain on the A320.

A few people have turned down courses but they've also been sat in the hold pool for almost 2 years, if BA offered them contracts straight away I guess it would have been a different story.

[Enzo999]

Originally Posted by BluSdUp

And now, that Lufthansa is going to buy Norwegian, BA is going to struggle even more.
Mind You anyone with BA experience will be a shoe-in at Norwegian LH !
Good time to change!

Not even sure where to begin with this! BA is no great place to work but tell me just how they are “struggling”?

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by student88

Hmm, a lot of sh1t stirring here and firing about of fake news.

....A few people have turned down courses but they've also been sat in the hold pool for almost 2 years, if BA offered them contracts straight away I guess it would have been a different story.

I’m sure that is true in some cases but not always. I know of at least one individual from the DEP pool who turned down a longhaul slot at BA because he got what he considered a more attractive offer from a LoCo ..... I believe the polite “thanks but no thanks” came as a bit of a shock in the office.