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Leaving BA for low cost

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Leaving BA for low cost

Old 25th Jun 2018, 21:28
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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What about not bidding with JSS. It must then look at everyone else first and build their roster. It then gets to you and can not compute. You bid for nothing so you can have what I have left which is limited so have some Tass. That’s my hope anyway. Rex our cover was blown long ago.
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 23:46
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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I did it, left a relatively senior FO position at BA to work for a low cost carrier in another part of the world. There is no easy answer to your question, I left for family reasons and have never regretted doing this to spend more time at home (less night stops) etc. I do however really miss BA, you are looked after very very well there, if I had been able to stay at BA whilst making the family situation work out I would have done that. I got a very rapid command in my new airline and now check and train as well, in my opinion I wouldn’t swap airlines if your only motivating factor is time to command, being in the Left hand seat is good but in no way outweighs what you would be giving up. BA training, bidding and contract are still of a very high standard and your months and years of seniority are hard earned and can never be gained back. Think of the overall picture as well, my mates at Easy find little things annoying like no staff travel outside of Easyjet, inability to experience Longhaul etc.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 07:00
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Bex88 , sadly, I’m not sure JSS works like that. I think it will try to get you to your credit range...CAP+/- x, and so will take trips off people above you to drag up your credit and lower theirs slightly. I fear a homogenous mess, unless the rules are tweaked to allow more variations. All this talk of bidding restrictions makes me think it will end up being an autorostering system sold to us on the basis of “fairness”.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 08:02
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Originally Posted by hunterboy
Bex88 , sadly, I’m not sure JSS works like that. I think it will try to get you to your credit range...CAP+/- x, and so will take trips off people above you to drag up your credit and lower theirs slightly.
That’s exactly how I read it: If you don’t bid at all you’ll be one of a number caught up in one of the backstop processes (I hesitate to use fallback or repair ‘cos they have specific meanings) and trips from the junior guys (at that stage hidden) rosters will go back in the blender and be spread around to get everybody into the target credit hours range if at all possible...if there is an equivalent of “Blindline TASS” I get the impression that will migrate higher up the seniority list than it does at the moment.

Whatever happens, however it is done, I don’t think the most junior bod can hope to nil bid and then sit at home on TASS.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 12:13
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Very interesting topic, thanks to those contributing.

Just wondering how long a new joining long haul DEP could reasonably expect to wait to achieve part time?
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 14:04
  #66 (permalink)  
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It depends on what kind of part time you go for. There are a few options. "Right to request" and "Aspirational". And then there are different options within those.

Standing by to be corrected, but:

- Aspirational (I want it): You bid for this annually and you "might" get it. Not sure how long this takes
- Right to request (I need it): Normally within 9 to 12 months (depending on which fleet you're on and if they have enough pilots to cover the work)

I've requested the RTR version recently for childcare and have been told to expect a result next year.

edit: “Just to clarify for people wondering after NLP’s comments, Right to Request can now be for any reason/person, it is not the sole preserve of parents.” (Thanks Rex)

Last edited by NLP; 28th Jun 2018 at 19:12.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 23:45
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Forgive me if I repeat some things that I may have said elsewhere, but I will give you my input on the subject matter for those that are interested. I am a TRE at easyJet and have worked there for nearly 15 years. It is, overall, a great place to be. You can argue contracts, countries to live in, perks, management failings etc, etc. If you take it as read that both BA and easyJet are fundamentally safe airlines with healthy balance sheets, then we can move on to the key points that separate them.

Arguments for BA -

1. Opportunities to fly different aircraft types.
2. Mix of long haul/short haul as you wish.
3. Seniority bringing great advantages as the years go by - once lost those advantages can never be recovered.
4. Pay increments every year.
5. Stable rostering, if you want it - easyJet has more roster instability, particularly at the big bases like Gatwick.
6. Great staff travel.
7. Generally well treated by management (although some BA pilots may argue differently!).

Arguments for easyJet.

1. Preferential bidding - ie you ask for earlies/lates and generally speaking get what you ask for (unless you are a training captain!).
2. Fixed-pattern rostering - 5/3/5/4 so you know your off days years in advance.
3. Quick time to command.
4. Good starting salary for captains (£104750 plus allowances, 7% pension contribution, performance bonuses, sector pay, loyalty bonus (incremental pay in all but name).
5. Very few night stops.
6. Opportunity to live and work in numerous bases across Europe.

Of all of these, there is really one stand-out difference that anyone comparing easyJet and BA should consider - night stops. At easyJet you get home most nights and at BA you do not. Arguably that is the biggest single factor in any decision to be in easyJet against BA. I personally love coming home every night to my family and therefore BA has always been a complete non-starter for me. I fully appreciate that is not everyone's position, but it is most definitely mine. If you join BA at, say, 25 years old, you will be there for 40 years. You could conceivably spend 20 of those years not sleeping in your own bed - that simply is not what I want. In the final analysis, I would say that is the key distinctive about whether or not to make the leap. It is a one-way move from BA to easyJet and only a handful of pilots have done it, which tells its own story. BA has so much to offer, but if you want to be home a lot then easyJet has got it. If that is not your main issue, my advice would be to sit back at BA and enjoy the numerous other great advantages of flying for one of the world's top airlines.
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 08:50
  #68 (permalink)  
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Thats a great summary Count. Thanks for the input.

And thanks everyone else for the great debate. Nice to see that the thread didn't turn into the usual PPRuNe arguments, insults and all over doom and gloom. Nice to see that there are still a lot of adults on the site.
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 09:10
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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You know if you were telling me you want to go fly in South east asia/south america (just for example) for a new experience, then I would understand where you're coming from.
But to leave one of the best airline in the world and your flag carrier and as a Brithish (I am guessing), to go fly the same short haul in the same part of the world with the same long days for an lcc...then I really can't understand. I would think veeery hard before jumping.
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 09:27
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Just to clarify for people wondering after NLPís comments, Right to Request can now be for any reason/person, it is not the sole preserve of parents.
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 16:31
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For those of us clueless about life at BA, why is long haul so unbearable? What you are suggesting is tantamount to somebody leaving Delta Airlines for Spirit Airlines here in the states. Does not happen regardless of time to command. This being the case when most, if not all legacy carriers, are operating under essentially bankruptcy contracts. Pay is reasonable, work rules are non existent. It's hard to imagine that LH life at BA could be that bad...
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 16:56
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Reluctant Bus Driver
For those of us clueless about life at BA, why is long haul so unbearable? What you are suggesting is tantamount to somebody leaving Delta Airlines for Spirit Airlines here in the states. Does not happen regardless of time to command. This being the case when most, if not all legacy carriers, are operating under essentially bankruptcy contracts. Pay is reasonable, work rules are non existent. It's hard to imagine that LH life at BA could be that bad...
I donít think itís the case that BA is bad at all, but easyJet is a very well paid job as a captain, good and relatively quick career progression. The idea of ďmajors or bustĒ doesnt exist in the U.K., some people are desperate to fly the flag but others are very happy not doing so. In the US, my impression is that unless you fly for the majors you havenít ďmade itĒ and wonít get the best pay/benefits, but thatís not true in the U.K. so other factors come into play like bases, rosters, career progression and part time.
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 17:14
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So out of curiosity what does Easy pay vs. BA short haul? Don't the Easy guys work a hell of a lot more than BA? I good friend of mine from university is a captain for Swiss ( formerly SR ) and when he was on the 320 he said he worked his but off. Right to the limits of the regs. Now on the 340 and is pretty happy. Interesting how much all this varies depending on region and airline.

In the states the seniority list is somewhat upside down. At my airline guys are upgrading to captain in 3-4 years but need 5-6 years to get in the right seat of a 777. They look at short haul rosters and want no part of it. Personally I think its better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven, but to each his own!
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Old 28th Jun 2018, 18:55
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by recall_checked


I donít think itís the case that BA is bad at all, but easyJet is a very well paid job as a captain, good and relatively quick career progression. The idea of ďmajors or bustĒ doesnt exist in the U.K., some people are desperate to fly the flag but others are very happy not doing so. In the US, my impression is that unless you fly for the majors you havenít ďmade itĒ and wonít get the best pay/benefits, but thatís not true in the U.K. so other factors come into play like bases, rosters, career progression and part time.
Thatís because the British flag carrier doesnít pay nearly as well as the American legacy carriers. And so the difference between BA and low cost/ charter airlines is less significant.
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Old 29th Jun 2018, 07:13
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Interesting thread. But it's surprising to me that nobody has mentioned the difference in the day to day job when comparing RHS 747 with LHS on a medium LOCO jet. I mean, what is it about being an airline pilot that floats your boat, as it were? In my humble opinion, there is a fundamental difference between longhaul and shorthaul jobs.

I gave up a previous career because I didn't want to sit at a paperwork-strewn desk surrounded by grey filing cabinets, looking out a window at a view of brick walls and concrete. For me, being an airline pilot is about the Vr and Vref, the hand-flying, selecting of AP modes, judging descents, and beautiful (and ugly) views into 150+ sometimes challenging airports, over a variety of routes and with a multicultural mix of interesting personnel. Those being the parts of the actual day to day job I most enjoy, longhaul flying and even the boring two-sector days, with 4-5 hour legs that the likes of Thomson fly on the 737, simply does not hold much attraction.

I have been with the same LOCO for the best part of 9 years, have lived at the base closest to my family for 7 years, fly a stable roster which allows me to plan childcare months in advance, and I'm in my own bed almost every night. The occasional out of base trip becomes a pleasure. I'm also training and checking, which brings an added dimension to my career. I'm happy with my remuneration, though benefits are non-existent and this is a company with a high turnover of staff for a reason. Interestingly, the leavers are split pretty evenly between short and longhaul airlines.

Overall, however, it's clear in my mind that being RHS 747 with BA would not give me what I want from my flying career. Much as I would love to spend a day on a 747 flightdeck, I wouldn't trade jobs. Horses for courses. For some pilots, flying longhaul or joining a legacy carrier is the Holy Grail.
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Old 29th Jun 2018, 11:01
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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easyJet work harder than BA short haul? Donít think so. I didnít do over 30 hours a month during the winter. For July all 2 sector days totalling 65 hours for the month and I donít have leave until August. Some nice short days just going to AMS and back, not all horrendous, yes we can have long days but so do pretty much everyone else.

Spoke to a friend of mine who got his command 2 years ago based at LGW on the 320 with BA. Heís working a damn side harder than I am and on less.

easyJet LGW is a different company to easyJet regional base. LGW is international rescue and the work and stresses will be greater but no more than anyone else. I do around 700-760 hours a year. Only twice in my 15 years at EZY have I gone over 800.

Depends what you want, some say why would you want to leave BA, Iíve never had any interest in joining, I donít live anywhere near to London, all my family and friends are where Iím based now and I donít want to commute and live out of a suitcase, done that before.

Its what you want out of life that more important, I donít feel the need to go part time yet, I will once the mortgage is paid off in a few years and I donít need the money as much.

There is no flying utopia anymore, there is little difference between most of the big airlines, whether itís easyJet or BA in the grand scheme of things.

They exist to make money, they want to work you all as hard as possible and pay as little as they can get away with.

Last edited by Stone Cold II; 29th Jun 2018 at 12:23.
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Old 29th Jun 2018, 11:18
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Couldn't agree more.

I am not based in the UK, but in southern Europe, 15 mins away from where I was born and grew up and at the moment there is not a company that could offer me a better lifestyle than easyJet.

In the last rolling 6 months I have flown exactly 268 hours, 616 in my last 12 months. I am at home every night, and have my days off set in stone for the next years (5 on 4 off). I get paid reasonably well, amazing part time options available, good benefits and get to fly with with great colleagues.
We have long days, yes, and fatigue is an issue sometimes, but never was I called in the office or questioned when I have reported unfit or fatigued for a duty.
There is no perfect job, but this one does it for me, right now.
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Old 29th Jun 2018, 12:22
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Boeing 7E7


Thatís because the British flag carrier doesnít pay nearly as well as the American legacy carriers. And so the difference between BA and low cost/ charter airlines is less significant.
Exactly. In some cases our flag carrier doesn't pay as well as some of the low cost/charter airlines over a whole career due to quicker progression.
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Old 29th Jun 2018, 13:28
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They exist to make money, they want to work you all as hard as possible and pay as little as they can get away with
And Aircrew generally want to work as little as possible and get as much pay as they can get away with - "they" know that also
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Old 29th Jun 2018, 13:56
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I believe you will not have to serve the full 5 year engagement freeze if you bid for LGW P1. They are desperate. If you have the hours, put it in your PRIAM bid!!
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