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Leaving BA for low cost

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Leaving BA for low cost

Old 21st Jun 2018, 21:16
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Enzo
My mistake, BA is doing great.

And , Yes LH is looking at Norwegian. seriously.
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Old 21st Jun 2018, 21:39
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Originally Posted by Cmon-PullUP
Depends on the base you want. Most start out where the need is for the company, and then sign up on the transfer lists. However, there are still choices + Ezy is fairly easy commuting wise if you need that. LGW is not all that bad as some claim - I certainly enjoyed my years there.

I am now a LHS commuter on a 71% contract, or a 7/7 as it is called. In real life it often works out as a 5/9 or 6/8 roster. (yes often 9 days off )

Would not even swap this for a direct entry CMD into a 744 if offered.

I didn't realise 7/7 was on the UK contract. That's a good roster pattern to get and might have changed my decision to leave.
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Old 22nd Jun 2018, 07:03
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Originally Posted by speed freek
I didn't realise 7/7 was on the UK contract. That's a good roster pattern to get and might have changed my decision to leave.
I am not on a UK contract, but a eminent contract in Northern Europe. TBH, even if Ezy opened a base right on my door step, I would still continue to commute. Some of our contracts are really good for family life, and mine is one of these

I have heard rumours though, that UK is going to have new part time contracts in the near future, so a 7/7 might (??) be coming as well.
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Old 22nd Jun 2018, 09:15
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Norwegian are a failing business, bums on seats does not translate to profit and Norwegian despite high load factors are massively unprofitable. The oil price is doing them no favours either at the moment and it will be very interesting to see what happens after next winter. Lufthansa are only trying to push the price up for IAG. Long Haul Low Cost doesn’t work, tried and tested.

Norwegian are inviting offers now for one reason and one reason only, they know time is running out.
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Old 22nd Jun 2018, 10:29
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Originally Posted by Cmon-PullUP
I am not on a UK contract, but a eminent contract in Northern Europe. TBH, even if Ezy opened a base right on my door step, I would still continue to commute. Some of our contracts are really good for family life, and mine is one of these

I have heard rumours though, that UK is going to have new part time contracts in the near future, so a 7/7 might (??) be coming as well.
Until the agreement is in place rumours aren't worth a great deal. PBS took a long time to come.

Thanks for the info but to me nothing has changed. The northern UK bases are still dead man's shoes, London bases still overworked and no 7/7.

I'll stick to my 4 trips a month with the blue team
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Old 22nd Jun 2018, 10:58
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Rexbanner.....

Long Haul low cost doesn't work???? I beg to disagree Sir. If you take a look at the many airlines (some Legacy) around the world that now offer this, I think you may be surprised. JAL to be the latest I believe.

....as for the comments regarding Norwegian, don't believe all that you read.
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Old 22nd Jun 2018, 17:41
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Originally Posted by AndyDRHuddleston
Rexbanner.....

Long Haul low cost doesn't work???? I beg to disagree Sir. If you take a look at the many airlines (some Legacy) around the world that now offer this, I think you may be surprised. JAL to be the latest I believe.

....as for the comments regarding Norwegian, don't believe all that you read.
Offering unbundled fares and being a fully fledged LCC are two very different things. Of course BA donít like Norwegian taking away customers, it effects the bottom line. One thing we know about the management at IAG is they are as greedy as they come, even if theyíre taking away one penny theyíll fight that competitor to take it back. BA and others can do it because they have a proper premium product, unlike Norwegian who have premium economy at best.
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Old 22nd Jun 2018, 20:01
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Thanks for all of the info. Lots of great stuff.

RE EZY. I would be looking at LGW or LTN. Could anyone provide a few typical early and late rotations that one could expect. And am I right in thinking around 18ths to 2 years currently for a cmd?
2/3 years for command for direct entry, but command process takes 2 years and think you have to wait 6 months before entering the process.

Earlies are a combination of nice 2 sector days, mostly reporting at 5/6am and off duty about 1/2pm. Some long 4 sector earlies and some short 2 sectors about too. Lates tend to be less predictable and expect your roster to change somewhat each week during summer.Some are lucky, others are not. Deep nights finishing at 2/3am are common on lates, BALPA doing a lot of work trying to get rid of the max FDP duty days. LGW and LTN standby used frequently to cover the rest of the network so expect a few out of base trips, especially captains.

Pay is pretty good for captains and if you join as an SFO it is £71k inc sector pay. No incremental pay rise but new pay deals every few years. Not a perfect place to work but look after yourself and home every night in a secure job, there are definitely worse gigs around. best of luck if you decide to join!
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Old 23rd Jun 2018, 04:18
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Originally Posted by Tricia Takanawa
Hi,

Im seriously contemplating leaving BA 747 to go to low cost short haul for a quick upgrade, but most people that I speak to look back in shock. So I'm looking for anyone that has done the same, to basically try and find out if they regretted it. And anybody else with any insight that might be helpful.

Any help appreciated!

TT
British Airways is just another airline.
Once Alex Cruz, Willie Walsh and Bjorn Kjos are through.
British Airways could be just another low cost carrier.
Good for the board, alright for the share holders, but lousy for the employees.
Jumping ship my be ‘out of the frying pan, and into the fire’.

youtube has the answer you maybe looking for.
Look up the Hounslow sound of the late 1970s.
Scissor Fits “I don’t want to work for British Airways”.
It could be your new theme tune.






Last edited by button push ignored; 24th Jun 2018 at 03:12.
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Old 23rd Jun 2018, 06:39
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One major thing with Easyjet: The finances are good. Even if the next volcano erupts on Iceland, if there is a another terror attack or something else happens to the industry, that would put most other airlines in the financial danger zone, Easyjet is still one of the most secure employers around. Operations can be at a complete standstill for 4 months before money starts to run dry.
For someone with a family to support, this counts for a lot as well.
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Old 23rd Jun 2018, 07:55
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Originally Posted by Tricia Takanawa
Hi,

Im seriously contemplating leaving BA 747 to go to low cost short haul for a quick upgrade, but most people that I speak to look back in shock. So I'm looking for anyone that has done the same, to basically try and find out if they regretted it. And anybody else with any insight that might be helpful.

Any help appreciated!

TT
Well, I've done exactly that; left BA B744 recently after just two years for a command at Ryanair and so far am very happy. Doubled my salary for the same amount of work... and a fixed schedule to boot. No JSS aka Junior Shafting System for me :-)
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Old 23rd Jun 2018, 08:53
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Originally Posted by Buter
GK - Have you seen whatís actually possible under EASA? Itís only our industrial agreements (which are being constantly chipped away at) stopping long haul from becoming absolutely miserable. Brakes on at 0500 from JNB and report at 1800 for JFK? Sure, why not... No more 4 crew trips? No problem...

Our flat earthers are subject to full EASA limits -30 minutes. I assure you they are not happy about it and those without much time invested in our precious seniority list have left/will leave/are considering their options.

Cheers

Buter
Hi Buter
Yes seen what's possible under EASA but most UK AOC I know worked hard and responsibly as did the Unions with scheduling agreements to filter out the few concerns they had.
Not sure what you mean by flat earthers sorry. My question is how many times do you work to the limits of EASA. How many times have you operated JNB min rest JFK. How many colleagues commute in before they work these trips it can't all be one way traffic
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Old 23rd Jun 2018, 18:55
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Hi GK

Flat earthers = Shorthaul/narrowbody/domestic depending on your location. A320 multi sector day operations.

I don't currently work to the limits of EASA, and I neither wish nor intend to. Ever. As stated, my shorthaul colleagues are subject to full EASA -30 minutes, sadly negotiated by our union during one of the seemingly endless cost cutting campaigns. I’m not exactly sure what it means, but I do know they’re not happy bunnies about it.

We can’t operate the JNB/JFK sector I alluded to due to our contracts. It is possible under EASA, however. This shows exactly how much thought went into their FTL calculations. Back to back GRU or MIA totally unacceptable... except when the local times are 4 hours or less time change from London, then it’s fine. Yeah... makes sense.

As as far as I know, nobody lives in the terminal (although I feel like I do at times), so everybody commutes in. I assume you mean by air? Do you include MAN/GLA/EDI/NCL crew in that lot? Jersey? Do you just mean crew that fly in from long distances like Australia or Texas (the crew residences of the last flight I operated)?

The answer is, I don’t know. I’ve never worked with a long distance commuter who flew in on the day, then operated (with one exception). Commuting is a personal responsibility. I really don’t care, tbh. Show up to work in good enough shape to do the flight is all I expect. Occasionally life gets in the way of that for commuters and locals alike.

My my response to you was just to highlight that my colleague’s comment about the EASA FTL scheme having a negative impact on our lives is valid.

Cheers

Buter
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 13:43
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Tricia, hi. Having looked at this and nearly left myself I decided to stay. My circumstances will be different but a quick command is a reality in BA. Youíre 3 years in, maybe only 1 year of your freeze left. If you go to EZY it will probably be Gatwick and a longer time to command. Maybe talk to LC reference a Gatwick airbus command? It would be reasonable to say you could have a Gatwick command within two years and then be back at LHR a year later. I am LHS and the only thing thatís bad is rostering and the pay is not that special but the gap is closing. BA is not the best, itís not the worst but it can offer change as your life changes. If you want SH command and are happy with that as a career (many are) then I think LCC are a much better option.
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 09:59
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When comparing pay between eJ and BA take in to account many eJ Captains go part time after a few years to address work/life and fatigue issues. I donít know if that is such an issue at BA.
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 10:05
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Originally Posted by pitotheat
When comparing pay between eJ and BA take in to account many eJ Captains go part time after a few years to address work/life and fatigue issues. I don’t know if that is such an issue at BA.


Oh yes it very much is an issue at BA......I'm sure somebody will be along in a minute to give you a BA (especially shorthaul) POV on fatigue/lifestyle/EASA FTLs as implemented there. They might also mention BA has (apparently unlike Easyjet) a really P Poor fatigue montioring system ("ah but by bidding for that line of work with that trip on it, and thereby volunteering to do it, it can't be fatiguing..)..

There's the additional problem at BA of actually getting approval to go PT because doing so seemingly interferes with the business plan.

Last edited by wiggy; 25th Jun 2018 at 10:18.
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 16:06
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Interesting wiggy I hadnít realised fatigue and going part time were such issues in BA. Sad that lifestyle and sustainable rostering are under constant threat everywhere. Is this an issue on both SH and LH?
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 17:47
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Can’t speak directly for SH but from what I hear from credible sources it can be nasty.

My very much a personal take on Longhaul - some of the immediate problem is that the 787 engine issues have loaded up rosters on the 777 and the 744....., fair enough, sometimes these things happen...but it’s not just hours flown this summer that is causing problems. There are problems with “interesting” trip constructions and probably above all the big big issue is the major loss of lifestyle control, especially days off, that has happened as the rostering system has morphed into something that is less and less under pilot control and more and more under company control. This has happened and we’ve not even moved to the new rostering system (JSS) yet, we are still officially working to Bidline Rules (stop laughing at the back). TBH and IMHO the only way to get some element of control back and some semblance of a normal life is one of the part time contracts, because at least on one of those you have some supposedly degree of control/predictability over guaranteed days off..full time outside of leave you now have not a lot...but I emphasise that is IMVHO....
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 18:24
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Depends where you put the gap on your roster though, Wiggy (certainly as regards to SH). If it’s at the beginning of the month then, yes, you are right in line for an FA because that’s where the hotspots of uncovered work are. Leave the gap until later in the month and generally speaking you are safe. I’ve bid below cap and not got FA’d because I’ve had my gap later on whereas someone three hours above cap has got FA’d instead of me because theirs was at a weekend at the start of the month. End of July I’ve got a six day block of days off before my wrap days and leave start at the beginning of August, again untouched by FA. So you can still have control it just depends where you want to take some time off, although I will freely concede that by its very nature means it’s reduced control.

By the way anyone feeling fatigued on SH right now should bid for reserve. Done virtually nothing so far and I’m entering the final week!

(Aware I’ve probably just blown my cover of anonymity for anyone taking a quick glance at iBid!)
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 20:40
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If it’s at the beginning of the month then, yes, you are right in line for an FA because that’s where the hotspots of uncovered work are. Leave the gap until later in the month and generally speaking you are safe.
Safer, sure, safe? not from what I’ve seen on LH but as we’ve drifted into Bidline tactics we are probably way off topic....the new joiners best just think JSS, optimisation (where you’ll never know that at one point in the process you actually had a roster with the days off you wanted/needed but then a trip got slotted in) and the fight to get Golden days........
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