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SAS Ireland SAIL

Old 29th Apr 2019, 20:52
  #661 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Sweden
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Originally Posted by 2unlimited View Post
I agree getting based "home" is probably the most important part in this job. But the way SAS operate has made it "impossible" for some very good experienced guys to return home.
I don't know what the starter pay is now, but I would imagine it would be 75% pay cut for a skipper to come and join in the right hand seat.

The ones I know at best end up working part time / and commuting, and it still works out better than starting Ground Zero at SAS.
The options are unfortunately limited purely for economical reasons.

However I wonder if the creation of SAIL could have been avoided if they had been willing to change the current seniority system that exists, as SAIL in itself is a threat to anyone working main SAS company.
Also I find it strange that SAS are not able to provide a fixed roster pattern, as I understand this is one of the main reasons for their strike.
Is there some kind of seniority bidding system with SAS for flights?
psst,,, look a few posts up. Starter pay is around 3500. With a rating in place and some experience I guess it’s around 3900 with per diem and all “extras” included.
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 22:02
  #662 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Whisperfail View Post


psst,,, look a few posts up. Starter pay is around 3500. With a rating in place and some experience I guess it’s around 3900 with per diem and all “extras” included.
It's not the worst, but not the best either. But it will not attract many who want to move "home", when they are making 3 times this money as a skipper. How many would be willing to take such a massive pay cut? Even FO's in LCC, makes nearly twice that amount.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 05:11
  #663 (permalink)  
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psst,,, look a few posts up. Starter pay is around 3500. With a rating in place and some experience I guess it’s around 3900 with per diem and all “extras” included.
​​​​​​​Per diem is not included in that amount. There are no "extras" interms of money.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 05:23
  #664 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 172_driver View Post


Per diem is not included in that amount. There are no "extras" interms of money.
Actually the per diem is included in that number. The per diem varies but is usually between 150-450€.
And you are right, there is no extras. That’s why all the “extras” are included.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 07:06
  #665 (permalink)  
 
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Considering the cost of living in Scandinavia that is not very good. Is that amount net after tax? I am assuming those figures are Euros.
How long will it take for an FO to come up to 5000 - 6000 Euros a month? I assume there is some payscale increase every year.
How long to get command?
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 07:50
  #666 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
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PU working for orange factory in Italy is making the same money as SAS FO in Scandinavia 😳😳😳
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 08:25
  #667 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Can't believe those numbers when it's with SAS. I'm currently making that after tax with a very good employer and I fly only 25 hours per month on average
Out of curiosity, what's the yearly increment according to the payscale? Time to command on short haul and long haul?
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 10:01
  #668 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
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easyJet SFOs take home is between €5000-6000 on French/German/Italian contracts, a bit depending on season (number of hours flown) and family and tax status.

CP
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 16:08
  #669 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
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That’s probably why SAS pilots are on strike, to improve those amounts.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 16:31
  #670 (permalink)  
 
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How much are pilots earning at SAIL with CAE?
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 18:48
  #671 (permalink)  
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Can't believe those numbers when it's with SAS. I'm currently making that after tax with a very good employer and I fly only 25 hours per month on average
Out of curiosity, what's the yearly increment according to the payscale? Time to command on short haul and long haul?
You better believe it now.

In Sweden, start at about 3500 EUR and finish at 9000 EUR gross (current exchange rate doesn't favour Swedish pilots). It's not a straight linear increase, but close to.

Per diem comes as extra and can work out to about 6-700 EUR net, if you stay away frome home a lot. They've even sold us out on the free breakfast

SAS is not really an expanding airline, time to command will vary depending on a whole set of other circumstances. Used to be about 20 years. Now it's been down to short of 6 years.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 19:16
  #672 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
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The payscales are slightly different in the three Nordic countries, but is somewhere around those number up there. At the moment, as 172 said, it’s actually only 5-6 years to upgrade at one base. But on another it’s 20+ years. The salary for new upgrades is about 6–7000€ including per diem. But they are forced to work 80% which make them only get 80% of that amount.

Any captain at sail working 4/5 that have 5,600€ you think?
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 19:51
  #673 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 172_driver View Post


They'd have to move base to ARN, OSL or CPH and learn the language, to start with. Then start at the bottom of the seniority list, there's no by passing. It's a career airline, people apply and intend to stay.
I would expect flexibility on the base and the language. Then agree a separate base seniority list but no further out of company seniority recruitment to that base. It's easy...🙄
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 20:33
  #674 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Whisperfail View Post
The payscales are slightly different in the three Nordic countries, but is somewhere around those number up there. At the moment, as 172 said, it’s actually only 5-6 years to upgrade at one base. But on another it’s 20+ years. The salary for new upgrades is about 6–7000€ including per diem. But they are forced to work 80% which make them only get 80% of that amount.

Any captain at sail working 4/5 that have 5,600€ you think?
Is that salary net, I assume it is.
SFO's at easy make 5000 - 6000 Euro after tax + Bonus + Shares + Fixed Pattern Roster + Pension (some countries have better deals than others regarding pensions)

I personally see very little positives with the seniority system, unless of course you have been in the company for many years. It makes recruitment very limited, and it gives the company excuses to lower TC's for new recruits.
I believe much of the reason SAIL saw daylight, was to give SAS more flexibility with regards to recruitment.

The one thing I have never liked with SAS is the way they have conducted their recruitment the last 6 - 7 years, as it has been to much of who your know, and who you are related to in the company to get a chance of a job there.
Specially Klaus in their recruitment team, he was a real joker, and not in a good way.
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Old 1st May 2019, 00:49
  #675 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Originally Posted by 2unlimited View Post
Is that salary net, I assume it is.
SFO's at easy make 5000 - 6000 Euro after tax + Bonus + Shares + Fixed Pattern Roster + Pension (some countries have better deals than others regarding pensions)

I personally see very little positives with the seniority system, unless of course you have been in the company for many years. It makes recruitment very limited, and it gives the company excuses to lower TC's for new recruits.
I believe much of the reason SAIL saw daylight, was to give SAS more flexibility with regards to recruitment.

The one thing I have never liked with SAS is the way they have conducted their recruitment the last 6 - 7 years, as it has been to much of who your know, and who you are related to in the company to get a chance of a job there.
Specially Klaus in their recruitment team, he was a real joker, and not in a good way.
All salaries in Scandinavia are quoted as gross salaries.
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Old 1st May 2019, 07:13
  #676 (permalink)  
ZAV
 
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I thought SAS guys had additional perks such as high pensions etc? Anyway they have the advantages of working from home . Plenty of other jobs out there paying much higher rates , just have to move away. However in my view the unions have overstepped the mark a quick effective strike would have had effect but now SAS management will bear this in mind and expect to see more SAIL like structures and wet leases. If any of you remember look what happened to Sabena. The unions thought they had won the day only to find upon return to work Sabena finished and all doors locked. The amount of money this is costing SAS makes it even more difficult for the management to meet their demands.
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Old 1st May 2019, 14:17
  #677 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Everyone knows SAIL was set up as a bogus model to circumnavigate the Scandinavian labour laws and undermine the union of mainline SAS, if anyone stands for those methods then you are probably part of the problem with bogus flying jobs in Europe and helping the race to the bottom.

Those complaining of no DEC in SAS, that is a ridiculous complaint, do like all the other SAS pilots and join the queue.

Good luck to all the pilots in SAS!
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Old 1st May 2019, 14:50
  #678 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Scandinavia
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Latest rumours from SAS F’vik HQ: GM will shut down SAIL as it was part of a strategic plan to avoid unions. They now see they will not succeed. The A/C will be registered in Sweden which has always been part of the back-up plan. The closure will happen gradually to facilitate recruitement as the need for pilots will increase.
SAIL pilots will be able to apply for a position in SAS Main but will have to go through the complete recruitment process. If successful they will join at the bottom of the list as FOs regardless of previous position.

Don’t kill the messenger.
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Old 1st May 2019, 15:06
  #679 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
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You can’t blame the crews working for SAIL, many of them came from companies like Monarch, and everyone tries to provide a living for themselves and their family.

Why would anyone bother to join the queue for SAS, when they can’t match conditions of other European airlines.
I only looked at SAS around 6 years ago, and discovered that they tend to look after their own.

I just believe part of the creation of SAIL was that it gave the
company more flexibility, which was impossible because of the position of the union and senior pilots in the company.

I know loads of Scandinavians who would love to return to Scandinavia, but the way it is set up it is impossible.

I travelled some time ago OSL to CPH with SAS SCANDINAVIA, and CPH to LON with SAIL, as a passenger there was no difference.

If start pay is 3500 Eur before tax and you have a random roster and constantly night stopping , then it’s one of the worst deals in the business.

I am curious is there a seniority system on roster bidding? Or is that equal for all?

Last edited by 2unlimited; 1st May 2019 at 16:58.
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Old 1st May 2019, 16:29
  #680 (permalink)  
ZAV
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Airbuzzer dont think so, if its not broke dont fix it? It is SAIL and the wet leased aircraft that have kept part of SAS operative well 30%. to the contrary it has probably shown SAS Management what parts are working. Also a little unfair of you to post that there are some decent guys out there with SAIL.
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