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SAS Ireland SAIL

Old 1st May 2019, 15:50
  #681 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
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Latest rumours from SAS Fívik HQ: GM will shut down SAIL as it was part of a strategic plan to avoid unions. They now see they will not succeed. The A/C will be registered in Sweden which has always been part of the back-up plan. The closure will happen gradually to facilitate recruitement as the need for pilots will increase.
SAIL pilots will be able to apply for a position in SAS Main but will have to go through the complete recruitment process. If successful they will join at the bottom of the list as FOs regardless of previous position.

Donít kill the messenger.
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Old 1st May 2019, 16:06
  #682 (permalink)  
 
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You can’t blame the crews working for SAIL, many of them came from companies like Monarch, and everyone tries to provide a living for themselves and their family.

Why would anyone bother to join the queue for SAS, when they can’t match conditions of other European airlines.
I only looked at SAS around 6 years ago, and discovered that they tend to look after their own.

I just believe part of the creation of SAIL was that it gave the
company more flexibility, which was impossible because of the position of the union and senior pilots in the company.

I know loads of Scandinavians who would love to return to Scandinavia, but the way it is set up it is impossible.

I travelled some time ago OSL to CPH with SAS SCANDINAVIA, and CPH to LON with SAIL, as a passenger there was no difference.

If start pay is 3500 Eur before tax and you have a random roster and constantly night stopping , then it’s one of the worst deals in the business.

I am curious is there a seniority system on roster bidding? Or is that equal for all?

Last edited by 2unlimited; 1st May 2019 at 17:58.
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Old 1st May 2019, 17:29
  #683 (permalink)  
ZAV
 
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Airbuzzer dont think so, if its not broke dont fix it? It is SAIL and the wet leased aircraft that have kept part of SAS operative well 30%. to the contrary it has probably shown SAS Management what parts are working. Also a little unfair of you to post that there are some decent guys out there with SAIL.
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Old 1st May 2019, 18:46
  #684 (permalink)  
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2unlimited,

SAS is really only good for Scandinavians who want to come home. If you're looking for money, go elsewhere. Most companies pay better. If you're looking for quality of life, it's pretty good (subjectively speaking).

Again, it's a career path you choose. It's not a gig you do as DEC for a couple of years and then move to greener pastures. So can we put an end to your desillusion that direct entry hiring will solve SAS recruitment problem (it hasn't been a problem.... yet anyway).

The roster bidding is not seniority biased.

ZAV,

I know you can't help it, your contractually obliged to go to work, but does it feel good to be part of the 30 % still flying?
And again, have you left earth thinking your SAIL keeps this airline afloat? Cityjet and SAIL had crap regularity last summer when it was needed the most.
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Old 1st May 2019, 19:50
  #685 (permalink)  
 
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knowing that my colleagues are on strike would make me feel sick and I would go to the doctor 😉
aaaa hang on sail guys are on acmi contract with cae parks...

Itís simply sad to see all the sail ac are on time today...

So SAIL guys have fixed roster 5-4. SAS guys would like to get fixed roster 5-4 and 13% pay increase.

Is it very likely that SAS guys will get 5-4, 7-8% pay increase and integrating SAIL aircrafts to SAS? 🤔

Last edited by matt283; 1st May 2019 at 20:55.
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Old 1st May 2019, 21:02
  #686 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by matt283 View Post
knowing that my colleagues are on strike would make me feel sick and I would go to the doctor 😉

Itís simply sad to see all the sail ac are on time today...
If they did that they would be breaking the law, and I am pretty sure the union would not support them when they get contracts terminated.

172: Not saying DEC will solve SAS problems, just trying to explain why SAIL came to life.
When they hire 6 danish guys from a flight school in Roskilde owned by 2 SAS Captains, one was his son, and they clearly state only type rated pilots should apply.

And Klaus in recruitment team when confronted with the facts replies with a smiley face, than it shows a rotten system. Did not impress me much.

However if you keep having random rosters every month, unable to plan anything ahead, that seems to be pretty crap in my opinion.
What I struggle to see is how they managed to offer SAIL 5/4, but SAS Scandinavia have not managed to get something like this ?

After getting a home base, the fixed roster pattern is probably one of the most important things I have got with the job.

I think itís out of order to criticise the SAIL Pilots, I have worked with some and they are all great guys, this is not their fight and they canít legally do anything.
I am sure nobody in SAS Scandinavia would risk their own job and family life in similar situation.

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Old 1st May 2019, 21:57
  #687 (permalink)  
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172: Not saying DEC will solve SAS problems, just trying to explain why SAIL came to life.
When they hire 6 danish guys from a flight school in Roskilde owned by 2 SAS Captains, one was his son, and they clearly state only type rated pilots should apply.
Nepotism or not, I don't know... can't comment.

However if you keep having random rosters every month, unable to plan anything ahead, that seems to be pretty crap in my opinion.
What I struggle to see is how they managed to offer SAIL 5/4, but SAS Scandinavia have not managed to get something like this ?
They claim SAIL has a fixed route network and 5/4 suits that, SAS is more variable and they need flexible pilots. What SAS calls flexibility, the pilots call intervention in personal life.

​​​​​​​I think it’s out of order to criticise the SAIL Pilots, I have worked with some and they are all great guys, this is not their fight and they can’t legally do anything.
I understand that, hence I added they're contractually obliged to keep working. It's mildly offensive however when ZAV seem to think SAIL is the saviour that keeps this airline in business.
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Old 1st May 2019, 22:06
  #688 (permalink)  
 
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Simply to crew all the flights having crew on fixed roster you need to increase crew headcount.
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Old 1st May 2019, 22:26
  #689 (permalink)  
 
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SAIL guys did indeed approach BALPA to see if they could offer support to SAS pilots. I’ve seen the BALPA response, and as you already know it would’ve been illegal.

It wasnt widely known that SAS crews took a massive hit in 2012.
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Old 1st May 2019, 22:32
  #690 (permalink)  
 
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So whatís the average number of crews on 1 aircraft?

How many hours on average you do yearly in SAS Skandi?

Increasing the head count wonít work with current conditions on offer.

What kind of roster is the union asking for?

Last edited by 2unlimited; 2nd May 2019 at 04:44.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 08:13
  #691 (permalink)  
 
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Seems like pay rise for SAS mainland pilots will be only 3,5%.

Anybody knows de details of the agreement?

How about roster and future of SAIL?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 08:14
  #692 (permalink)  
 
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What future?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 08:24
  #693 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing will change about SAIL with new CLA still 9 ac on Irish AOC flying for SAS?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 09:28
  #694 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 172_driver View Post

The roster bidding is not seniority biased.
I was reading from the agreement, that regarding the roster, now it will change from 40% to 60% that will get roster stability.

How is it determined who are those 40% and in the future the additional 20%?
Unless it's based on seniority, what would the criteria be?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 10:11
  #695 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A319 View Post
What future?
Are they being dismantled as part of the deal?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 11:12
  #696 (permalink)  
 
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By seniority.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 11:22
  #697 (permalink)  
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How is it determined who are those 40% and in the future the additional 20%?
Ah that part, yes... it's seniority based.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 11:38
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Originally Posted by 172_driver View Post
Ah that part, yes... it's seniority based.
So until now 40 % of the crew have had a "fixed" roster pattern?
Based on being the company for X amount of years?

And how many years will it take to get a fixed pattern, to become one of those 40 - 60 %.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 11:46
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Originally Posted by 2unlimited View Post
So until now 40 % of the crew have had a "fixed" roster pattern?
Based on being the company for X amount of years?

And how many years will it take to get a fixed pattern, to become one of those 40 - 60 %.

Also is it based on the seniority in the base or seniority in the company?
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Old 3rd May 2019, 12:28
  #700 (permalink)  
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And how many years will it take to get a fixed pattern, to become one of those 40 - 60 %
3 years


Also is it based on the seniority in the base or seniority in the company?
Base seniority

If you're not based where there are vacancies for a fixed pattern you are not getting it.
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