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Jet2 Autumn 2014

Old 16th Oct 2016, 22:48
  #921 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 316
I can back up the above. I flew the jumbo and hand flew it freely. Where I am now you can hand fly if you wish. Just choose sensible moments the same as anywhere. It's whether you chose to though. Most jumbo Pilots have been flying long enough to get past the obsession with hand flying absolutely every approach just for selfish reasons and pick their moments. It's all about managing risk and after being awake half the night you use what little reserves you and your team mate at the front are left with in the best way. Just my observation.
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Old 16th Oct 2016, 23:15
  #922 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Holland
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Well I'm at a pax and cargo operator, either way I think most operators don't have set rules on when you have to engage the autopilot, might be wrong though.

Agree with Wireless, if it's a 3am departure where we are both tired departing out of an unfamiliar port, chances are I'll engage the autopilot earlier rather than later, and also take into account how busy the PM is, or if there is significant weather around I need to avoid in my opinion you really should be engaging the autopilot early. But I have no problem if the guy I'm flying with engages it early or later.
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Old 17th Oct 2016, 07:12
  #923 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 158
No, worse. Plenty of threads on this issue elsewhere, which state that the FR take home after maximising own pension contributions averages at about 6k.

Nobody on here seems to know what a Jet2 Captain takes home.
5.6k - 6k after tax and pension contributions, depending on how many hours you are flying.

Biggest selling point is home base and the roster. 2 sector days at decent report times and only 500-ish hours per year, unless you are on the 757 then you'll struggle to make 3-400.

Of course the type / amount of flying can change in future. But at the moment it's quite a nice little number.
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Old 17th Oct 2016, 07:21
  #924 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: EU
Posts: 120
Thanks for the info Odins Raven.
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Old 17th Oct 2016, 07:32
  #925 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Odins Raven summed it up ; it can all change.

Its only a matter of time before Jet2 wake up and someone points out (probably ex Ryanair type) that 2 sectors days and pilots doing 500 hours a year is way short of what can be achieved.

Enjoy it while you can as it wont last especially if they employ any senior FR pilots or Mment who are trying to make a statement or a good impression.

Ps only upside they might espouse the benefits of a 5/4 roster
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Old 17th Oct 2016, 08:05
  #926 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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With regard to 2-sector days, the route structure which is mainly to package holiday destinations doesn't allow 4 sectors. The exception being a AMS DUS from LBA I believe. Therefore if you can't do 4 sectors the only way to increase everyone's hours is by flying more over the winter. This year I believe there is an increase of winter routes by 40-50% depending on who you believe, which is great but it still only means flying 3-4 times a month. We will enjoy it while it lasts!
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Old 17th Oct 2016, 09:49
  #927 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Cheshire
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The current business model is primarily Mediterranean Leisure with a few city breaks. It doesn't matter how many Ryanair management join Jet2, it won't make Brits go on holiday when there is no sunshine and cold weather in the Med. Therefore the winters will always be quieter for obvious reasons. But yes, there is a need to increase revenue in the winter to pay off the new aircraft as quickly as possible so now the major bases will be flying 6 days a month instead of 3, which is still a nice balance.

I very much doubt the airline will go back to its LoCo roots and try to take on FR and EZY.
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Old 17th Oct 2016, 14:07
  #928 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Odins Raven View Post
5.6k - 6k after tax and pension contributions, depending on how many hours you are flying.

Biggest selling point is home base and the roster. 2 sector days at decent report times and only 500-ish hours per year, unless you are on the 757 then you'll struggle to make 3-400.

Of course the type / amount of flying can change in future. But at the moment it's quite a nice little number.
Assuming you match the employers contribution that's around 120,000-133,000 gross per year which I think is pretty decent and certainly not the poor wage some people have suggested.
If the basic salary of 91,000 on PPJN is correct could I ask how the difference is made up? I know there is sector pay but is there an hourly rate as well?
And is that 30-40k pensionable??

For 500hrs per year at home base that's a very nice deal.
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Old 17th Oct 2016, 14:11
  #929 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 288
6K take home at Fr?
5.6 to 6K at J2?
PPJN needs updating!
Done both, and never got near those figures. Anyway, as someone said above, it's not a pissing contest. I've lost count of the number of times an FR F/O has come up with some unfeasible take home figure, and only admitted when pressed that he was still paying back the 30K.

Quote:
How do you manage 12 different routes in 11 days without landing miles from your car?

Multi sector days! Ah, the memories.
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Old 17th Oct 2016, 15:28
  #930 (permalink)  
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Yes I'm not sure how people are achieving 6k in Jet2. Unless they're on the old increments contract. I never once got close to 6k in my time there (admittedly the pay has gone up since I left). As a 73 skipper doing 650 hours a year, my pay ranged from 4.5k in winter to 5.4k in summer after deducting 300 for the pension.

Afaik the hourly rate is 2.10 at Jet2. My variable pay was about 600 - 800 per month.
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Old 17th Oct 2016, 15:45
  #931 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Originally Posted by Odins Raven View Post
The current business model is primarily Mediterranean Leisure with a few city breaks...

...I very much doubt the airline will go back to its LoCo roots and try to take on FR and EZY.
I think you'll find that the Jet2Holidays side of the business is the driver these days, with year on year growth. The fleet size is forecast to be 74 next summer and 85 by summer 2018. The competitors are TCX, TOM and MON (all of whom Jet2 are larger than), not FR or EZY.
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Old 17th Oct 2016, 17:46
  #932 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Fleet size, yes, but in terms of passengers carried?

2015:
Tom 10.6m
TCX 6.4m
Jet2 6m
Mon 5.7m
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Old 17th Oct 2016, 18:12
  #933 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Out of a bag
Posts: 470
Not much in it between Jet2 and TCX, but I feel that MON are in the crosshairs, particularly at the likes of BHX. You only need to walk through the terminal and see the advertising and promotional staff there to see it's a major push.
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Old 17th Oct 2016, 23:48
  #934 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 469
I appreciate most asking are in the left seat but as an FO having worked for both FR and Jet2 (in that order) I have to say there was an absolutely massive quality of life increase when I moved. I am paid better and FAR more consistently than I was in FR (due to being employed and salaried). I am at home every single night instead of being moved around bases as they see fit (I believe this is done slightly less now). I get my uniform, licence, LOL, pension, medicals, travel and hotac paid for and organised (don't underestimate this, as a commuter in FR I spent far too much of my time off planning an itinerary). In return for all this, I personally find the place much happier, there is less bitching (it still happen as I am sure it does everywhere, but its not 24/7), I can actually get a hold of crewing, rostering etc and have met many of the post holders or managements pilots and had a good time in the pub with a lot of them.

I very occasionally miss the 5/4 pattern roster, but at least I am home every night and not commuting, and at the minute most of the month is filled with standbys which I personally treat almost as days off - true I can't drink during them but I can go about my day as I want pretty much.

I also don't have to take a forced month off unpaid, I have much much more leave (more than 3x as much) with a system that works for me.

I also don't spend a large amount of time worrying about dodgy tax arrangements and trying to follow what the accountant I was forced to use is doing with my money and whether or not it is actually legal (any FR contractor probably knows what I mean).

For hard figures, I took a 6 sample period of January to July (to try to include a mix of seasons). I should also point out this didn't include my unpaid month off in FR.

Normal UK PAYE tax in Jet2.
Still paying type rating expense in FR therefore paying less tax than normal.

My average net pay in Jet2 was 3920 GBP
My average net pay in FR was 3030 EUR

I had more duty days (ie. standby) in Jet2 but ~half as many hours flown. I also had much less personal expenditure.

Hope these numbers are useful to someone.
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Old 18th Oct 2016, 01:57
  #935 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Holland
Age: 35
Posts: 66
I was told by Jet2 (so take with a pinch of salt maybe) that flight/sector pay I could expect to add about 6k-8k per annum. I would hazard a guess that the guy above stating the 3900 net each is an SFO. Which experienced guys would get within 6 months of joining, making the annual salary around 59k adding 6-8k a year would be 65-67k. So 3900 seems reasonable for an SFO. I believe a normal FO would be on around 3300-3500 net take home a month? (100% contract).
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Old 18th Oct 2016, 15:40
  #936 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: EU
Posts: 120
The pay at Ryanair varies between bases and whether you are based in the UK or Europe and what contract you're on. For a captain directly employed on a UK contract 6k in a month is definitely possible, however they are listing their 'best' month (probably in the summer). Take home can range from 5k to 6.5k depending on if you have flown more than 100 hours in that calendar month, worked any days off etc. Average over the year I would say it is closer to 5.5.
True. It varies.

Mine was an average of almost exactly 5,900 for 825 hours. Minimum 4,600 on a month off and maximum 6,600 on a busy month in the winter.

The trouble with calculating wages by looking only at take home is that the tax regime in the UK means that for every extra 10k you earn when you're on less than 100k you only get an extra 500 per month in your pocket. Once you get above 100k, it's awful, as you only earn 250 extra per month per 10k*.

*The HMRC tax calculator tool.
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Old 18th Oct 2016, 15:54
  #937 (permalink)  
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Dead pool, the amount of DECs is to cover expansion, there aren't enough FOs ready for upgrade alone.
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Old 18th Oct 2016, 16:53
  #938 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 235
Great to see some good publicity for both LS and FR from their crews, with some now defending both airlines and how good it is to work there. Unusual...
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Old 18th Oct 2016, 19:05
  #939 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
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The amount of DECs that Jet2 are recruiting it shows they have no interest in promoting from within or they make the process too hard and have a high failure rate.
Do you actually work at Jet2? There are unprecedented numbers of upgrades happening at the moment, and there are more to come. The external DEC recruitment has always been a necessary rather than a preference. Some haven't made it through the upgrade process, the process has developed and the success rate has increased, however not everybody will make the grade, surely that is a good thing, if you aren't quite ready then you aren't quite ready, a Command is not a right. Standards have to be met and maintained.

You might well get your Command slightly more quickly at Ryanair, but you'll have to disappear to somewhere you don't really want to be for it, and from what I can remember of a post a while ago, you'll have to pay for the privilege of you're Command upgrade course.

Jet2 isn't perfect, but I still believe that, all things considered, I am better off at Jet2 than Ryanair

Last edited by Johnny [email protected] Pants; 18th Oct 2016 at 19:06. Reason: Typo
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Old 18th Oct 2016, 20:29
  #940 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: LHS 737-800
Posts: 49
The command OPPORTUNITY may come around quicker at Ryanair however that doesn't mean you will become a Captain. We have taken some direct entry FOs with 3000 hours plus recently. Some make the grade after a year and a half but a lot more don't. Some FOs join as cadets and do 4 years in Ryanair and when the command comes around they don't make it. That is either down to their own preparation or it is just not the right job for them. That's life unfortunately.

The last number of direct entry FOs I flew with (one ex Jet2 and one ex Air Baltic) didn't get through. That's not to say they won't ever get through it but it's by no means a given.

From my own personal view point:

I'm in exactly the base I want.
I'm on a permanent contract earning well in excess of 100k annually.
I'm on a fixed 5/4 roster.
I live a very quiet life both in and out of the company.



Would I swap all that to fly for Jet2 ?

No. But good luck to those past and present that do/did.

Last edited by Lazydogg; 19th Oct 2016 at 01:42.
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