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Jet2 Autumn 2014

Old 15th Nov 2016, 10:47
  #981 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 237
Old English Proverb, Better the Devil you know etc.
Ivan aromer is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2016, 16:44
  #982 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: usa
Posts: 53
are interviews still ongoing?
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 20:32
  #983 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 33
No it's not 9k it's 7.5k inline with Thomson bond but you don't pay anything if you remain in the company for 3 years.
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 23:08
  #984 (permalink)  
WMB
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mordor :(
Age: 48
Posts: 60
Still better than the 18000 bond, Flybe wanted for rated and current Dash8, Direct Entry Captains.
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Old 19th Nov 2016, 23:16
  #985 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 523
WMB - I still can't get over that one!
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Old 21st Nov 2016, 14:34
  #986 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 134
Any bond for rated and current Pilots is taking the piss in my book. Sometimes theres no choice, though, if thats where you want to be at? And whats the bond for?
Honest Fr@nk is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2016, 15:22
  #987 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Either the back of a sim, or wherever Crewing send me.
Posts: 865
Not sure I agree [email protected], there is a lot of investment involved in somebody joining, even those that are type-rated. There is the company induction course where many will be staying in LBA at the companies expense and will require transport from their base to LBA and back again, there are 5 days of simulator, again many of those attending the sim will require hotel and transport, and there is line training.

All of which will amount to a good proportion of the 7.5k bond.
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Old 21st Nov 2016, 15:30
  #988 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 541
7.5k is not that significant for most rated joiners as it is likely they are joining for their base of preference, making it unlikely that they'll leave any time soon.

However, it does prevent the odd curve-ball situation where a rate new joiner suddenly gets invited back by their previous employer with a carrot on offer (such as base/part-time etc) meaning Jet2 have wasted the few thousand invested in induction and OCC etc.

Not saying I'm a fan but can see their point of view, and still a lot fairer than what most operators are offering when you bear in mind the contracts.
Mr Good Cat is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2016, 16:25
  #989 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 134
Johnny FP. So there'd surely be a reduction in bond for any LBA based pilots whereby no transport or accommodation is provided. Just the sim expense to cover. But they own their own sims now! And line training??? Two pilots occupying two seats with fare paying customers. It used to be 4.5k when they was using third party sims. So why 7.5k now (thats if its true). The type rated pilot is not gaining anything from it. No extra qualification. What other industry takes on already qualified persons and "bonds" them. A different type/non type rated I can fully understand.
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Old 21st Nov 2016, 18:25
  #990 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: UK
Age: 27
Posts: 21
Or maybe to deter people when BA or TOM dangle the carrot?
G1991 is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2016, 11:46
  #991 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 99
Have any NTR F/O's been offered start dates recently? Swimming at the moment.
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Old 23rd Nov 2016, 17:28
  #992 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,624
Honest
If they want to join Jet 2 then the bond doesn't matter....

If they have an issue with the bond then Jet 2 probably doesn't want them.

Its not a great behaviour but Pilots are a highly paid asset. The better option would be to put them on 6 months notice
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Old 24th Nov 2016, 18:58
  #993 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 134
6 Months notice....................almost thought you was serious. :
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 13:04
  #994 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 13
Points to think about

A word of caution for those of you thinking about heading to Jet2... Especially for First Officers:

This is my opinion and others are welcome to have a different view, so please take it with a pinch of salt if you like... but my experience was that Jet2 is simply not a nice company to work for compared to many other airlines. If you have not worked for a decent airline before then you would not know any different and might think that it is fine - but it really isn't! It is a company that is simply unable and unwilling to listen to its work force, and in pilot terms has totally dismissed it flight crew by distancing itself so much from the pilots union (which is more of a professional trade association - you cannot compare BALPA to the TUG!). BALPA are responsible for some great things, and they do not have to run the firm! All the business has to do is listen to its people. The PLOG is a Jet2 platform for voicing issues, but there are no votes on important matters and it really has no clout. Plus the PLOG members really do not want to upset the apple cart and create a name for them selves with managers! Or what might happen... The company does not come back to the PLOG with any of its proposals or consult with them at all.

This article is embarrassing... but Jet2 is so proud of its landmark case!
Bird & Bird wins landmark case relating to the scope of collective bargaining with trade unions | Jet2.com

Customer service and a low cost base they might have totally right, but they neglect to look after their own employees on a giant scale. There are a lot of unhappy people stuck there in all aspects of the business. Staff turnover is undoubtedly high.

Someone who deals with Jet2 from the outside on a regular basis described them to me as a 'stubborn and dis-organised' company - that pretty much sums them up I am afraid.

Lots of lovely people work at Jet2, as they do at all airlines though, and some of them are there for many reasons - but having worked for a number of airlines myself, including Jet2 they really are light years behind in the way that they engage with their people. Well actually they don't engage. People are simply scared to ask questions. There is no such thing as feedback or continuous improvement here. It does not exist. The training is in general poor (though there is an inherent arrogance by the managers that it is in fact great - you will hear the words 'Mature Training Organisation' being bantered around all the time!). Simulator checks are very much 'Testing with a capital T' instead of learning and improving exercises, which often creates a nervous atmosphere in the simulator - not what you want! Flightdeck CRM is strained with Commanders taking the weight of everything on their shoulders, FOs become good at staying quiet and operating Flap levers... I am exaggerating a bit, but when it comes to a command course you will have had zero opportunity at developing your potential command skills... Unlike any other airline I have worked for. No LOD here.

If you are in the right seat, you are pretty much ignored and do not really matter... Every management position is for Captains only, even First Officers and Senior FOs receive different pension contributions to Captains from the company! But you cannot ask why that is?! You'll be black listed!

Poor rostering practices are not transparent - you can have roster changes that crewing know about, but that have not been communicated to you. What is the point of having a roster? Your roster can change at short notice. Your duty can be extended. You cannot say no, there is no pay to cover such inconveniences. You are not encouraged to offer suggestions to Ops or crewing, or you will be reported and contacted by a manager. If you are on standby in the morning and crewing know that they are going to use you, then they will not put the changes on your roster the night before - instead preferring to call you out at the crack of dawn!!! Apparently this is for EASA regs which is utter nonsense as not one other UK airline has adopted such a procedure. All it does is maintain flexibility for the company up until the last minute. You might always get called at the end of a standby for a simulator duty that the training center always had you down for, but you didn't know until two hours before! It has happened to many people here based in Leeds and Manchester. Two hours notice before a sim!!!

Therefore planning a family life around your roster is very difficult.
This all boils down to the fact that there is no scheduling agreement or care for you by the firm!

Airport standby galore, even when there is absolutely no chance of being called - you'll have to stay in grotty facilities and wait and wait.

There are no perks to add to a mediocre salary, except for free tea and coffee really which is nice... Staff travel is essentially non existent, the Holiday Exchange salary sacrifice scheme sees the company benefit too, and if you were to get a staff ticket it will cost well over 100 rtn for a ticket to Spain (easyJet sells spare capacity off at 5 plus tax! So about 33rtn and they still make a tenner). Private Heathcare they advertise as a benefit - it isn't, it is a corporate discount of around 20% much like a corporate gym membership. Why do you not get Heathcare provided if you are such an important assert to them? Maybe because they do not really care for you if you become ill. This discount was pushed through with a massive fanfair after no consultation with the PLOG. Perhaps pilots would have preferred less of a payrise and Private Healthcare instead? The business has no way of knowing or indeed the inclination to find out what its people want from the pot.

Cabin crew treatment by the firm and CRM across the business is verging on scary and is old fashioned. Annual refresher training is not conducted with cabin crew, and indeed I was never trained on cabin crew / cabin emergency procedures with the cabin crew in my time there. Even at a basic level, some crew have had to buy there own winter coats for which they cannot claim back. There can be a single pilot mentality which sadly impacts flight safety in the commercial world.

They are also very fast to dismiss their people and suspend them. The whole of the pilot industry knows that as word travels so fast!

Flight safety - it is not an open or transparent culture, more of a fear culture. If you submit an ASR, the big big boss gets an email with your details and you are CC'd in. It is not a truly confidential system.

There are a stream of pilots leaving Jet2 to competitors like Thomson, Thomas Cook and naturally course BA. You have to ask why people are so desperate to leave though? Some are even paying bonds back (watch out for the terms of these bonds too, they are very one sided and written absolutely in Jet2s favour!). Perhaps it is not about pay, people want to be looked after, cared for and have respect for the business they work for... This is totally lacking at Jet2 I am afraid to say, and until they listen to their people and invest in them - it will never change!

Pay wise... Half pay during training for some, others on 70% contracts, others on 100% from day one. No allowances during training (even if you do get a travelinn bed!) - come on, it sets a bad tone from day one. The tightness is unbelievable compared to what is actually NORMAL at other airlines, including the regionals.

In fairness what is good?! A local base? Half price sandwiches on board when you get called at the end of an airport standby to go to TFS? And some of the lovely people! I really hope it improves for you and that the company becomes more transparent and less Soviet! Good luck.

If you are applying, then good luck. Just do not leave your current job with your eyes closed!
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 13:26
  #995 (permalink)  
H44
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: My house
Posts: 31
I agree with a lot of what you say Stockportonealpha. There will be probably be Jet2 ers coming on here to dispute what you say but having worked at other airlines and at Jet2, there's a lot of truth in your post sadly, and many of your points are what pushed me and many others to seek pastures new. From a passenger's point of view Jet2 are great - unfortunately they fail to recognise their most valuable asset - their front line staff.
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 14:56
  #996 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 25
I left Jet2 slightly less then a year ago for exactly the reasons written above. As you say the good bit is the local and relatively small base where everybody in the base knows each other, but in the end, it was all the other reasons you mention why I and so many others have left.

I do however disagree with your Training statement, if you are lucky enough to find yourself in the simulator with one of the EDI trainers or ex BMI baby trainers you will learn a lot and walk out with a positive feeling. They are the real trainers!!! For most of the others, including the one who will sooner rather then later reply to your statement, I'm afraid you are absolutely spot on.

Last edited by Jet2_320; 25th Nov 2016 at 16:33.
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Old 25th Nov 2016, 17:38
  #997 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 541
Well I guess it depends on what seat you're sat in, and what luxuries you have been pampered with at your previous operator.

From the viewpoint of a DEC on 100% contract at base of choice, it's probably the best deal going.

I've worked for two of the world's biggest airlines previously. I got paid more there, but work and home life is far happier here.

The salary is good enough, the perks are okay, the staff travel is crap. The people I work with are nice, and the rosters are far less fatiguing than what I've done previously.

Training is good (from what I've experienced so far) and the guys that I've met from HQ have been a pleasure to deal with.

Maybe things were not so good here in the past, but not my place to say as it was before my time.
Mr Good Cat is offline  
Old 27th Nov 2016, 10:10
  #998 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Craggy Island....the west is best
Posts: 118
I was right seat in Jet2 - have to admit that, like any airline, it has its problems.... however training was not one of them. The TRI / TRE's are generally good guys. The training was professional and far above the standard of the legacy airline I now work for. In fact, I rely heavily on what I learned there to keep me out of the poo now!
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 20:30
  #999 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Out of a bag
Posts: 468
RHS at Jet2 is what you make of it. If you sit there day in day out with your thumb up your behind just cruising along, you'll obviously struggle come time for upgrade.
I'm staggered by how often it's commented that I'm doing things other FOs don't do. All I'm doing is my job to the best of my ability!
If you put the effort in to learn your job and some of what the LHS is doing, you take ownership of your development. It then lessens the load when facing command as you'll already be familiar and comfortable. I'm talking about running your sector as PF from briefing the crew /dispatcher, completing the tech log for the skipper, liaising with ops, welcome PA, etc. Obviously you pick the time and place as there are those who are more receptive to this than others...
You may read this and think seriously, completing the tech log is a big deal? Well I'm firmly in the belief of taking care of the little things so the big things take care of themselves.
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Old 27th Nov 2016, 21:56
  #1000 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 541
From my experience almost all the FOs at Jet2 are extremely competent, particularly the ex-apprentice guys and girls. What they lack in flying experience, they more than make up for in enthusiasm and receptiveness.

There's only been two truly questionable individuals who to be fair were not lacking in raw ability just with a work ethic too poor to get through a command course and to continue to be successful in that command (you're always learning). Those individuals were looking for pastures new in both BA and also overseas.

I've heard a few things about the way things were run previously with regards to the command selection and maybe there were some genuine gripes but it seems the company are now getting there with the new command development program.
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