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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 24th Sep 2014, 21:39
  #681 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 342
All

As I understand it BA are gagging for pilots, particularly A320 pilots, and there is likely to be alot of upset chief pilots at the Low Cost Airlines next year when their pilots start handing in their notices prior to the summer season. I think the 250 required pilots mentioned earlier may be an under-estimation. I believe the 320 programme for next year will be considerabley greater than this year. This means that as well as the need for new recruits due to this expansion there will be many new 320 commands freeing up LH right seat slots for SH copilots inturn opening up their seats for more new recruits. Those starting courses at the end of this year will be 1/3 to 1/2 way up the 320 seniority list by the end of next year. Not a bad place to be.

BA will be looking for 747 pilots for next year hence the new LH campaign. They will probably not require 767, 777 or 787 pilots to fly those types (although not yet finalised) but will use those with LH experience to fly the 747s. It is unlikely there will be enough quality 747 applicants to fill the required slots. Those going straight onto LH will be at the bottom of thier seniority list for quite a while but you will have the benefit of the LH lifestyle.

BA will not compromise on the quality of recruits in order to take people with the right type rating. So if enough suitable candidates cannot be found from the present campaigns expect to see A330/340 ratings added to the list, then 737 then finally NTRs. Its done in this way to avoid the recruitment dept being inundated with applications.

For those waiting for replies please remember there are only a couple of guys/girls in the pilot recruitment department. They run the ads, screen the applications, organise the recruitment days, answer emails and phone calls from people like me as well as fitting in a little time to go flying. They will answer all applications, just be patient.

Regards and good luck

P.S. the LH ad now includes the 757, not in the title but the body of the ad.

Last edited by binsleepen; 24th Sep 2014 at 21:43. Reason: add the PS
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 21:43
  #682 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
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A Colleague of mine informed me today that he has passed his assesment earlier on today and is waiting for a date for the Sim assessment. I wish him well.
His experience is BAe 146, Emb 190 and 6 months on the A320 we both started in April on our present contract, so I guess he has about 400 hrs A320.

Myself, I have 4000 hrs A320/321 with two previous companies, plus 350 ( more sectors but not as many hours) with present company.
See what happens
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Old 25th Sep 2014, 07:20
  #683 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Thanks to binsleepen,

as always valuable infos from you
Really surprised to hear that all applications are handled by only 2 employees.
Though BA recruitment dept was huge

Last edited by eaglesnest1972; 25th Sep 2014 at 09:30.
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Old 25th Sep 2014, 07:25
  #684 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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What has surprised me is that some people who jumped through all the hoops successfully in the very first recruitment drive this year haven't yet been offered courses but are sat in the dreaded holding pool!
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Old 25th Sep 2014, 07:28
  #685 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Eagles nest. I said guys and girls. The head of pilot recruitment is a guy. Don't offend him as he does post on here

They have a lot of pilots who help with the actual interviewing but day to day there is only a couple of them. The whole recruitment department is much larger for the whole airline but I am just talking about pilot recruitment.

Regards
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Old 25th Sep 2014, 09:29
  #686 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks mate
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Old 25th Sep 2014, 16:11
  #687 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Ba

What surprises me is the high number of fATPLs already employed by BA, surely this would be a great opportunity to recruit loyal company bods from within who have a wealth of experience in various areas (cabin crew, ops, engineering etc) who know how the airline works?!
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Old 25th Sep 2014, 17:32
  #688 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Edited to delete my post as in the end - it's pointless! It's just an opinion!

Last edited by WhyByFlier; 25th Sep 2014 at 21:03.
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Old 25th Sep 2014, 18:01
  #689 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Says the one who went to CTC for 120k!

Edited to say, all in my own humble opinion of course.
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 07:19
  #690 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Ba

WhyByFlier, I was in no way suggesting that any of the fATPLs within BA feel that they are owed anything by the company, and I fully agree that training is a risk and each individual's choice. Nor was I suggesting that they should have any preference over an already rated and experienced pilot. My point was that every week I see several flights cancelled due to a lack of flight crew, BA are absolutely desperate for pilots! With the length of time it takes to open up and run a recruitment campaign, it was merely an observation that it could be a helpful option.
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 07:55
  #691 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
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The issue for BA is not selection times but training capacity, so it would make no difference where the candidates came from, internal or external. There is a dreadful lack of capacity in the training system, a legacy of years of stagnation and low training requirement. Now there is a large training requirement and not enough capacity. BA are looking at all sorts of solutions including external training courses so expect to see type rated people being given preference for the foreseeable future.
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 08:01
  #692 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Ok fair enough and thank you for your measured response. The trouble with BA's manning levels and recruitment is that they haven't yet twigged that they are no longer special. They aren't the pinnacle. Other airlines will offer a more lucrative, stable career and the amount we fly, many aren't terribly fussed about a boeing 380 or an Airbus 787 it's about money, stability and command. BA are not best on all 3 anymore. Not over a course of a career. Yet they still insist on irrelevant tests, interviews which aren't fit for purpose and a lack of weighting on the wrong attributes. Tell me is their recruitment 'closed loop'? By that I don't mean 'well we haven't had crashes, too many complaints and everyone seems ok on a night stop', I mean are these selected people measuring up against the 'stringent' required profile. How can they be sure? Have they tried relaxing their criteria for a few each batch and comparing?

Where do BA think they're going to find the right stuff? They're running out of options. They need to be flexible, adjust and get real.

As for training capacity - perhaps if it wasn't down to manager's budgets and they were again more measured it wouldn't be so tight. All or nothing it seems.
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 08:23
  #693 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
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whybyflier: I was equally sceptical about BA's long and seemingly irrelevant recruitment process but there must be something right about it. I say this because on a fleet of nearly 1000 pilots I can honestly say there has only been one or two times where I have wanted to get out of that jet and away from my colleague as fast as possible.

If it were me I would interview whilst showing candidates around the airline, have lunch together and then a sim test in the afternoon / evening. If that was all good then give the pilot a six month fixed term contract with the agreement that it will become permanent if x, y and z are met. In a previous airline the chief pilot was very honest. "We give out six month contracts and if after that time we like you or more importantly don't know your name then we give you a full time position"

The evidence I see would suggest that BA's system selects the correct people but it very very probably discards many very very capable pilots along the way.
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 09:10
  #694 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
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While BA have no trouble getting the numbers through the door, those that have passed their "irrelevant" tests, then I doubt they will change anything in their recruitment process. Why would they? The system has worked for many years now and has provided BA with what they need and want. People saying that the selection is irrelevant or dated or anything else are still missing the point. BA are getting the numbers through the door with no problems, occasionally they relax their criteria but that merely tells you that they are still, usually, able to cherry pick from whoever is out there. When that small pool is exhausted they widen their criteria a little. It does not suggest that there is a recruitment problem.

As I said before the problem is capacity in the training system not in getting people through the door. The recruitment requirement this year is large and some if those that come in will probably do some external training but this will be minimised by taking type rated people first.
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 09:21
  #695 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
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And that's where BA's retirement home - their brothers in arms, CTC, come in......
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 09:23
  #696 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
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whybyflier

it's about money, stability and command
I'm not sure whether this motivation alone would bring you any job satisfaction in the BA's business model.
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 09:32
  #697 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
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No, I'm not married to the job. I work to get as much money to do and buy all the nice things I want, with my family and friends, that I can. Flying is a nice way of doing that. The command gives me more autonomy over my day. The stability gives me less stress. A bigger plane takes me away from home more, more boring time in the cruise, less take offs and landings and more chance of certain illnesses.

What else do people work for if its not money, stability and progression?

And before you drop the lil nugget you can go into management, training (TRI) and recruitment in easy as an FO as well.
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 09:48
  #698 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
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I agree with your argument but what I do not accept is that much as it works at your outfit it might not fit into BA's model and that's why recruitment would be keen to identify similar candidates this by say unsettling them with test you described as 'irrelevant tests, interviews which aren't fit for purpose'. BA's secret in recruitment falls between the lines of lateral thinking (thinking from outside the box) to arrive at what you want. Only those who align with BA's point of view get the nod.

It has worked for them over the years; why would you change a working formulae just because they think you should change!?
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 10:43
  #699 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Only those who align with BA's point of view get the nod.
And that's conducive to:

BA's secret in recruitment falls between the lines of lateral thinking (thinking from outside the box) to arrive at what you want.
Is it?

Incongruously juxtaposed wouldn't you say?

It's my opinion that it should be a long grilling about why you want to join, who you are, what you've done and where you want to be. And then a solid sim - lots of raw data, holds, bad weather, some failures, some CRM issues and a nice lunch together somewhere in between. Any other pseudoscience is there to make CC/pilot-cum-psycologists feel justified and remove accountability like any good manager should. 'Twas the selections fault m'lord.

To counter your argument for BA's selection- are you noticing a difference between BA selected pilots and BMI unselected pilots? Voila! Think outside that box. Personally, I choose not to get in it in the first place.

Last edited by WhyByFlier; 26th Sep 2014 at 10:54.
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 11:51
  #700 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
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There are many posts on this and other threads over the years critical of BA's recruitment process. BA seem quite happy with it. Bottom line is simple. You don't have to join BA with it's silly recruitment processes.

It just makes one wonder why so many people spend so much time being critical of a process in a company they "choose" not to be a part of. Smacks too much of sour grapes or envy to me. If you choose not to be part of BA then why give a tinker's cuss about how they recruit?
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