BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 107
Likes: 1
From: Dublin
Not that I’m advocating this but I remember a few years ago TAP were offering positions at very short notice and were actively encouraging pilots to leave their previous company without notice, saying they were happy for them to join without a reference etc.
At an airline where recruitment/movement up the MSL is slower than BA, the DOJ was even more important and I know FR for example lost a not insignificant number almost overnight!
At an airline where recruitment/movement up the MSL is slower than BA, the DOJ was even more important and I know FR for example lost a not insignificant number almost overnight!
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 17
Likes: 1
From: 60 north
Mythbusting time!
" All recruiters know each other!" NO!
" He might need a reference,," For what , he just started in BA, Only leaving for the Oldfolks Home!
A company I know of does not even give reference!! So arrange with a " friendly" Cpt or Trainer to give You a letter!
" You will get sued " NO! FOR WHAT! Two of my friends left with no notice , never heard a thing!
" Aviation has big ears" NO! It used to , when it was the CP or Head of Training doing the culling of CVs on his table. HR is a different beast.
I am afraid we have quite a few pilots presently working the last days of notice. To be available for a course that might not start until next February.
This is the context I issue this advice to be considered for anyone in similar position in these uncertain times.
I would not advice this for normal procedure, not even Non Normal , we are talking Recall Item Emergency here!
I have been way to many places in my 32 years in Aviation and this crisis has the potential to unhinge the market for us pilots like nothing I have ever seen.
But by all means question my integrity for coming with tough advice.
I am not going anywhere.
For now!
Good Luck to All
Cpt B
" He might need a reference,," For what , he just started in BA, Only leaving for the Oldfolks Home!
A company I know of does not even give reference!! So arrange with a " friendly" Cpt or Trainer to give You a letter!
" You will get sued " NO! FOR WHAT! Two of my friends left with no notice , never heard a thing!
" Aviation has big ears" NO! It used to , when it was the CP or Head of Training doing the culling of CVs on his table. HR is a different beast.
I am afraid we have quite a few pilots presently working the last days of notice. To be available for a course that might not start until next February.
This is the context I issue this advice to be considered for anyone in similar position in these uncertain times.
I would not advice this for normal procedure, not even Non Normal , we are talking Recall Item Emergency here!
I have been way to many places in my 32 years in Aviation and this crisis has the potential to unhinge the market for us pilots like nothing I have ever seen.
But by all means question my integrity for coming with tough advice.
I am not going anywhere.
For now!
Good Luck to All
Cpt B
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 589
Likes: 60
From: FLSomething
" All recruiters know each other!" NO!
" He might need a reference,," For what , he just started in BA, Only leaving for the Oldfolks Home!
A company I know of does not even give reference!! So arrange with a " friendly" Cpt or Trainer to give You a letter!
" You will get sued " NO! FOR WHAT! Two of my friends left with no notice , never heard a thing!
" Aviation has big ears" NO! It used to , when it was the CP or Head of Training doing the culling of CVs on his table. HR is a different beast.
I am afraid we have quite a few pilots presently working the last days of notice. To be available for a course that might not start until next February.
This is the context I issue this advice to be considered for anyone in similar position in these uncertain times.
I would not advice this for normal procedure, not even Non Normal , we are talking Recall Item Emergency here!
I have been way to many places in my 32 years in Aviation and this crisis has the potential to unhinge the market for us pilots like nothing I have ever seen.
But by all means question my integrity for coming with tough advice.
I am not going anywhere.
For now!
Good Luck to All
Cpt B
" He might need a reference,," For what , he just started in BA, Only leaving for the Oldfolks Home!
A company I know of does not even give reference!! So arrange with a " friendly" Cpt or Trainer to give You a letter!
" You will get sued " NO! FOR WHAT! Two of my friends left with no notice , never heard a thing!
" Aviation has big ears" NO! It used to , when it was the CP or Head of Training doing the culling of CVs on his table. HR is a different beast.
I am afraid we have quite a few pilots presently working the last days of notice. To be available for a course that might not start until next February.
This is the context I issue this advice to be considered for anyone in similar position in these uncertain times.
I would not advice this for normal procedure, not even Non Normal , we are talking Recall Item Emergency here!
I have been way to many places in my 32 years in Aviation and this crisis has the potential to unhinge the market for us pilots like nothing I have ever seen.
But by all means question my integrity for coming with tough advice.
I am not going anywhere.
For now!
Good Luck to All
Cpt B
Key takeaway here is the HR point. References really don’t exist anymore. All you will EVER get is a ‘confirmation of employment dates’ or something similarly titled. Reason is no one wants to be sued for giving a bad reference so are scared of them, quite reasonably. And absolutely right about the chief pilot point, modern airlines are not old boys clubs where if daddy wore the right squadron tie you got in, everyone is equal and you’re based purely on the application, nothing else.
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 659
Likes: 10
From: The EU
Plenty of people have left Ryanair without serving their notice period. I flew with a captain who received a job offer on a turnaround down route, handed his ID and iPad in on return to base and was never seen again. It’s not the worst advice in the world in the current climate, and airlines have bigger fish to fry right now than chasing an FO for not serving their notice.
The best advice though is don’t go to BA. Their true colours have been shown in their treatment of pilots and cabin crew with signed contracts to join. From what I gather, the goodwill doesn’t improve after joining either.
The best advice though is don’t go to BA. Their true colours have been shown in their treatment of pilots and cabin crew with signed contracts to join. From what I gather, the goodwill doesn’t improve after joining either.
Guest
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,052
Likes: 0
Plenty of people have left Ryanair without serving their notice period. I flew with a captain who received a job offer on a turnaround down route, handed his ID and iPad in on return to base and was never seen again. It’s not the worst advice in the world in the current climate, and airlines have bigger fish to fry right now than chasing an FO for not serving their notice.
The best advice though is don’t go to BA. Their true colours have been shown in their treatment of pilots and cabin crew with signed contracts to join. From what I gather, the goodwill doesn’t improve after joining either.
The best advice though is don’t go to BA. Their true colours have been shown in their treatment of pilots and cabin crew with signed contracts to join. From what I gather, the goodwill doesn’t improve after joining either.
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Northwich
" All recruiters know each other!" NO!
" He might need a reference,," For what , he just started in BA, Only leaving for the Oldfolks Home!
A company I know of does not even give reference!! So arrange with a " friendly" Cpt or Trainer to give You a letter!
" You will get sued " NO! FOR WHAT! Two of my friends left with no notice , never heard a thing!
" Aviation has big ears" NO! It used to , when it was the CP or Head of Training doing the culling of CVs on his table. HR is a different beast.
I am afraid we have quite a few pilots presently working the last days of notice. To be available for a course that might not start until next February.
This is the context I issue this advice to be considered for anyone in similar position in these uncertain times.
I would not advice this for normal procedure, not even Non Normal , we are talking Recall Item Emergency here!
I have been way to many places in my 32 years in Aviation and this crisis has the potential to unhinge the market for us pilots like nothing I have ever seen.
But by all means question my integrity for coming with tough advice.
I am not going anywhere.
For now!
Good Luck to All
Cpt B
" He might need a reference,," For what , he just started in BA, Only leaving for the Oldfolks Home!
A company I know of does not even give reference!! So arrange with a " friendly" Cpt or Trainer to give You a letter!
" You will get sued " NO! FOR WHAT! Two of my friends left with no notice , never heard a thing!
" Aviation has big ears" NO! It used to , when it was the CP or Head of Training doing the culling of CVs on his table. HR is a different beast.
I am afraid we have quite a few pilots presently working the last days of notice. To be available for a course that might not start until next February.
This is the context I issue this advice to be considered for anyone in similar position in these uncertain times.
I would not advice this for normal procedure, not even Non Normal , we are talking Recall Item Emergency here!
I have been way to many places in my 32 years in Aviation and this crisis has the potential to unhinge the market for us pilots like nothing I have ever seen.
But by all means question my integrity for coming with tough advice.
I am not going anywhere.
For now!
Good Luck to All
Cpt B
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 487
Likes: 42
From: Doha
The current situation is unlike any before. This is expected to be a very significant but relatively short time frame event. What does the company do? In this situation it needs to minimise losses in the short term without affecting the medium term plans. If there were to be a panicked mass redundancy of hundreds of pilots, it would then prove very difficult to get them all back into work quickly enough when we see recovery.
We see offers for unpaid leave (up to one month), part time options and recruitment freezes (although did we not only two days ago recruit a load of new managers?). What’s the next step? Voluntary retirement package? Part time working across all pilots? As a group what we need to do is all take some of the pain and not see our more junior colleagues out of work. We all complain about workload, lack of time off and tax, this maybe a opportunity to address those issues and save jobs.
Yes I am full time, yes I would go 75% for a fixed period and no I am probably senior enough to not have to do that. I have been at risk a number of times and I was saved by the good will of more senior pilots and I am prepared to do the same for my colleagues.
All speculation of course, hopefully we don’t get to that point.
We see offers for unpaid leave (up to one month), part time options and recruitment freezes (although did we not only two days ago recruit a load of new managers?). What’s the next step? Voluntary retirement package? Part time working across all pilots? As a group what we need to do is all take some of the pain and not see our more junior colleagues out of work. We all complain about workload, lack of time off and tax, this maybe a opportunity to address those issues and save jobs.
Yes I am full time, yes I would go 75% for a fixed period and no I am probably senior enough to not have to do that. I have been at risk a number of times and I was saved by the good will of more senior pilots and I am prepared to do the same for my colleagues.
All speculation of course, hopefully we don’t get to that point.
Joined: Feb 2013
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 154
Likes: 7
From: London
This is just a completely unprecedented situation which is quite clearly going to require some sacrifice from everyone if no one is to lose their job.
The press conference today with the CSO and CMO suggests we are 10-14 weeks away from the "peak" of the epidemic in the UK. But it WILL be back next winter. Companies are going to have to take action which preserves their survival through till 2021 when a vaccine is available. Personally I suspect government intervention will sooner or later be necessary, but we're obviously not there yet.
Anyone who underestimates the challenges we face over the coming months is only deluding themselves. We have to stick together and try to share whatever pain is coming our way.
The press conference today with the CSO and CMO suggests we are 10-14 weeks away from the "peak" of the epidemic in the UK. But it WILL be back next winter. Companies are going to have to take action which preserves their survival through till 2021 when a vaccine is available. Personally I suspect government intervention will sooner or later be necessary, but we're obviously not there yet.
Anyone who underestimates the challenges we face over the coming months is only deluding themselves. We have to stick together and try to share whatever pain is coming our way.
Joined: Mar 2018
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 544
Likes: 110
From: U.K.
Well, coincidently, a number of pilots will be without a job following their soon-to-be employer deciding to withdraw their job offer...
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 17
Likes: 1
From: 60 north
Worchester
Why do I pick NEXT February?
Well, considering they just closed Norway as I was out fishing today, I would say the hysteria has just begun!
( 600 cases and 1 dead ! )
Anyway
I could be wrong, but no airline , in Europe needs a single extra pilot the next 13 months!!
Easter starts 1 April 2021 and then summer starts with a lot of pent up " travel energy" amongst the survivors. Airlines and folks alike.
As an old Head of Training I happen to know a thing or two about recruitment and providing the Max is back and the Corona is backing off, there is no point in committing to new pilots until well after newyear.
I hope I am wrong, and feel free to remind me if I am,
Stay healthy!
Cpt B
Well, considering they just closed Norway as I was out fishing today, I would say the hysteria has just begun!
( 600 cases and 1 dead ! )
Anyway
I could be wrong, but no airline , in Europe needs a single extra pilot the next 13 months!!
Easter starts 1 April 2021 and then summer starts with a lot of pent up " travel energy" amongst the survivors. Airlines and folks alike.
As an old Head of Training I happen to know a thing or two about recruitment and providing the Max is back and the Corona is backing off, there is no point in committing to new pilots until well after newyear.
I hope I am wrong, and feel free to remind me if I am,
Stay healthy!
Cpt B
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Sussex
Why do I pick NEXT February?
Well, considering they just closed Norway as I was out fishing today, I would say the hysteria has just begun!
( 600 cases and 1 dead ! )
Anyway
I could be wrong, but no airline , in Europe needs a single extra pilot the next 13 months!!
Easter starts 1 April 2021 and then summer starts with a lot of pent up " travel energy" amongst the survivors. Airlines and folks alike.
As an old Head of Training I happen to know a thing or two about recruitment and providing the Max is back and the Corona is backing off, there is no point in committing to new pilots until well after newyear.
I hope I am wrong, and feel free to remind me if I am,
Stay healthy!
Cpt B
Well, considering they just closed Norway as I was out fishing today, I would say the hysteria has just begun!
( 600 cases and 1 dead ! )
Anyway
I could be wrong, but no airline , in Europe needs a single extra pilot the next 13 months!!
Easter starts 1 April 2021 and then summer starts with a lot of pent up " travel energy" amongst the survivors. Airlines and folks alike.
As an old Head of Training I happen to know a thing or two about recruitment and providing the Max is back and the Corona is backing off, there is no point in committing to new pilots until well after newyear.
I hope I am wrong, and feel free to remind me if I am,
Stay healthy!
Cpt B
Considering there has not been a virus like this for a generation, there is no relevant comparison. Watching interviews with actual professional analysts, they say there is a pick up in holiday bookings for this winter (ie delaying their summer holidays), so I suspect we will see a quick economic pick up in the second half of this year.
I’m going to stick to the professional advice from scientists and economists rather than guess work based on pure speculation.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 739
Likes: 6
From: York
bex88
Voluntary ‘redundancy’, (I presume that’s what you mean?) comes at a cost to the employer. As those volunteers may not come from the fleets the employer would prefer to shed pilots.
How much of your own T&Cs are you prepared to sacrifice for redundancies to be VR rather than CR? (If your union are even in a position to influence your employer??
I see you are rather senior, and don’t feel under any threat? You have been ‘saved’ more than once by your colleagues. That’s great. You’re well placed to take one for the team.
What’s the next step? Voluntary retirement package?
How much of your own T&Cs are you prepared to sacrifice for redundancies to be VR rather than CR? (If your union are even in a position to influence your employer??
I see you are rather senior, and don’t feel under any threat? You have been ‘saved’ more than once by your colleagues. That’s great. You’re well placed to take one for the team.
Last edited by 4468; 12th March 2020 at 21:48.
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
From: Uk
4468. 100% I am willing to take a part time working option or job share for a fixed term.
I feel under threat. I have seniority within the company and on fleet but not in P1 status.
I can pay my bills with less money. It will not be fun but I will do that so colleagues do not loose everything.
Yes VR costs money but it is something which has been offered in the past. Surly it needs to be a option made available should anyone wish to accept it. Regardless of seniority, now is the time to come together and share the burden.
Alex Cruz’s video message does not sound good at all.
I feel under threat. I have seniority within the company and on fleet but not in P1 status.
I can pay my bills with less money. It will not be fun but I will do that so colleagues do not loose everything.
Yes VR costs money but it is something which has been offered in the past. Surly it needs to be a option made available should anyone wish to accept it. Regardless of seniority, now is the time to come together and share the burden.
Alex Cruz’s video message does not sound good at all.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 73
From: UK
Agreed. I have to say I am feeling pretty vulnerable on the 747, but I resigned myself to it months ago. The minute I heard this was infectious with few or no symptoms, I knew it was already out of China and it was going to be serious on a global scale. People were saying it is just the flu, but I knew it was not. A new virus is always more of a problem than an old one such as the flu, because of the lack of resistance within the population. I suspect the rumours from months ago, of twenty jumbos being offloaded early, is bang on the money.
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: London
An inevitable outcome , Yes BA makes large amounts of money BUT that’s lots of staff and lots of empty aircraft .
I often think if we didn’t have media we would all be sailing along with out a care , it’s so blown out of proportion!!
I often think if we didn’t have media we would all be sailing along with out a care , it’s so blown out of proportion!!
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 589
Likes: 60
From: FLSomething
Google the Spanish flu of 1918, if it’s anything like that then BILLIONS may be infected. The whole ‘meh, more people die of the flu’ is what will kill people because if that’s what you believe then you’re not going to be doing your hit by self isolating, washing hands constantly and being cautious. Society has to beat this collectively, any chinks in the collective and the whole defence is worthless.
Last edited by VariablePitchP; 14th March 2020 at 21:51.
